volunteering and Shadowing

usf2013 said:

I start college in Fall and would like to know should I start volunteering for my first 2 years then in my last 2 year shadow or should I wait until my last two years to volunteer and shadow, which would look best for med school.

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Long term commitment is better. Volunteer and shadow throughout your college career. Don't application buff.

Pick 2-3 things, devote a lot of time to them. Get patient contact etc.

Good luck in school this fall!

usf2013 said:

I start college in Fall and would like to know should I start volunteering for my first 2 years then in my last 2 year shadow or should I wait until my last two years to volunteer and shadow, which would look best for med school.

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I've heard consistency looks the best. So you should continuing volunteering even in your third and fourth years but you can reduce the number of hours by volunteering perhaps only once a month.

I have logged 100+ hours in Tulsa St. Johns O.R. It is very fun, interesting and a great experience. I also am wondering about shadowing, when is it too early to start shadowing or maybe too late? I know basics, I am only a sophmore this year and I know the basics but I don't want tge doctors to think I am a joke coming into their practice with limited knowledge. Any advice to tack on with his question as well?

OrdinaryMD said:

I have logged 100+ hours in Tulsa St. Johns O.R. It is very fun, interesting and a great experience. I also am wondering about shadowing, when is it too early to start shadowing or maybe too late? I know basics, I am only a sophmore this year and I know the basics but I don't want tge doctors to think I am a joke coming into their practice with limited knowledge. Any advice to tack on with his question as well?

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You won't know anything more as a Junior/Senior than you know now.

Heck, M1s and M2s don't really have that great of an idea even. Yeah they have basic science knowledge, but clinical practice is a whole diff. ball game.

So shadow away, it will make all the organic/physio/biochem you're learning, that much more tolerable. Especially since you know that it has a real world application eventually...

CodeBlu:11401517 said:

OrdinaryMD said:

I have logged 100+ hours in Tulsa St. Johns O.R. It is very fun, interesting and a great experience. I also am wondering about shadowing, when is it too early to start shadowing or maybe too late? I know basics, I am only a sophmore this year and I know the basics but I don't want tge doctors to think I am a joke coming into their practice with limited knowledge. Any advice to tack on with his question as well?

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You won't know anything more as a Junior/Senior than you know now.

Heck, M1s and M2s don't really have that great of an idea even. Yeah they have basic science knowledge, but clinical practice is a whole diff. ball game.

So shadow away, it will make all the organic/physio/biochem you're learning, that much more tolerable. Especially since you know that it has a real world application eventually...

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Ok good, I have a couple of Dr.'s in mind. I just wasn't sure if there were any unwritten rules about when the time to start shadowing is.

usf2013 said:

I start college in Fall and would like to know should I start volunteering for my first 2 years then in my last 2 year shadow or should I wait until my last two years to volunteer and shadow, which would look best for med school.

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Man oh man do I just love this phrase.

CodeBlu said:

You won't know anything more as a Junior/Senior than you know now.

Heck, M1s and M2s don't really have that great of an idea even. Yeah they have basic science knowledge, but clinical practice is a whole diff. ball game.

So shadow away, it will make all the organic/physio/biochem you're learning, that much more tolerable. Especially since you know that it has a real world application eventually...

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I'm pretty sure that shadowing will show the exact opposite, that ochem etc will have basically no real world application.

Sorry, just breaking your balls, I agree with you.

OP: I'd start right away. If you wait, you'll have less time to devote to other opportunities that arise. Somethings, like research, can be difficult to get into as an underclassman (this varies depending on your school).

the duck said:

I'm pretty sure that shadowing will show the exact opposite, that ochem etc will have basically no real world application.

Sorry, just breaking your balls, I agree with you.

OP: I'd start right away. If you wait, you'll have less time to devote to other opportunities that arise. Somethings, like research, can be difficult to get into as an underclassman (this varies depending on your school).

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Maybe you misunderstood me? Let me rephrase.

Oh and yes, you do need to understand orgo if you want to be a doctor. You don't just prescribe drugs randomly.

Getting through biochem/orgo etc. will be less painful when you're able to observe the end game of the hard work you put in now.

CodeBlu said:

Maybe you misunderstood me? Let me rephrase.

Oh and yes, you do need to understand orgo if you want to be a doctor. You don't just prescribe drugs randomly.

Getting through biochem/orgo etc. will be less painful when you're able to observe the end game of the hard work you put in now.

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Dude.

No.

No.

No.

I don't even use it as a PharmD student on the floors. EVER.

pfaction said:

Dude.

No.

No.

No.

I don't even use it as a PharmD student on the floors. EVER.

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Notice, how I said understand...Yeah you don't need the Diels-Alder reaction. But the fundamentals of orgo are important.

You're telling me that you don't use pKa, pKb and patient lab values to determine therapeutic dose and calculate loading doses etc? Come on now.

CodeBlu said:

Notice, how I said understand...Yeah you don't need the Diels-Alder reaction. But the fundamentals of orgo are important.

You're telling me that you don't use pKa, pKb and patient lab values to determine therapeutic dose and calculate loading doses etc? Come on now.

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I literally do not use PKA and PKB.

Patient lab values? Do you mean SCr and plugging into CrCl? Volume of Distribution, which is kg * fraction?

Loading dose: (Vd)(Concentration wanted) / (Free Fraction * Bioavailability)

I have never used any of what you just mentioned before.

Therapeutic values? Already calculated and depend thus on patient stats.

Patient is hypoalbumic at 2.1, good renal and has a Phenytoin level of 12. Therapeutic range is 10-20. Is he good?

AdjCP = CP / (0.2*alb+0.1) = 12/ (0.2*2.1+0.1) = 23

That dude is gonna be toxic.

No. Organic chemistry drops off the mind, just like Physics, when you step on the floor. No MD goes WOW THAT LIGHT HAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE RUNNING THROUGH IT AND IS FLICKERING ON AND OFF AT 60 HZ!! There is no need to understand organic chemistry...there are no SN2s, no Grignard, no betaines, and unless you reallllly want to find out how alkylating agents for chemo works? Maybe then it's needed.

pfaction said:

I literally do not use PKA and PKB.

Patient lab values? Do you mean SCr and plugging into CrCl? Volume of Distribution, which is kg * fraction?

Loading dose: (Vd)(Concentration wanted) / (Free Fraction * Bioavailability)

I have never used any of what you just mentioned before.

Therapeutic values? Already calculated and depend thus on patient stats.

Patient is hypoalbumic at 2.1, good renal and has a Phenytoin level of 12. Therapeutic range is 10-20. Is he good?

AdjCP = CP / (0.2*alb+0.1) = 12/ (0.2*2.1+0.1) = 23

That dude is gonna be toxic.

No. Organic chemistry drops off the mind, just like Physics, when you step on the floor. No MD goes WOW THAT LIGHT HAS A LOT OF RESISTANCE RUNNING THROUGH IT AND IS FLICKERING ON AND OFF AT 60 HZ!! There is no need to understand organic chemistry...there are no SN2s, no Grignard, no betaines, and unless you reallllly want to find out how alkylating agents for chemo works? Maybe then it's needed.

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I lol'ed.

are there MDs that do that, because I feel bad if I lie.

pfaction said:

are there MDs that do that, because I feel bad if I lie.

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No, but a radiologist or an oncologist might use physics and orgo/pharm more than say your garden variety Surgeon for example.

We'll find out because for rotations, I'm with
Dr. Schneider MD, Oncology Hematology

I can already feel the solemness of the floor...

PS; one of the MD's I worked with said Optho is the only real physics due to the lenses or whatever. I'm not doing too well in physics but I remember near and far sighted.

pfaction said:

We'll find out because for rotations, I'm with
Dr. Schneider MD, Oncology Hematology

I can already feel the solemness of the floor...

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It's not that bad... seriously.

It's bad when you see someone get induced though... then they go from happy to... the living dead... induction = zombie

I'm also talking about how if I **** up and the MD approves I can actually, this time, kill a patient. Also the clinical pharmacist will double check

OH YOU GAVE CIPRO 500 BID INSTEAD OF 250 BID TO THAT 20 Y/O F WITH A UTI? 911 MIRITE?

pfaction said:

I'm also talking about how if I **** up and the MD approves I can actually, this time, kill a patient. Also the clinical pharmacist will double check

OH YOU GAVE CIPRO 500 BID INSTEAD OF 250 BID TO THAT 20 Y/O F WITH A UTI? 911 MIRITE?

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Most MDs aren't pharm savvy... anesthesiologists are great with pharm.

And urite homie... cipro BID... BOO! XL for the win.

No insurance pays for Cipro XL, they'll tell you to just give Levaquin for QD dosing.

thejoysofinsurancerejection.jpg

pfaction said:

No insurance pays for Cipro XL, they'll tell you to just give Levaquin for QD dosing.

thejoysofinsurancerejection.jpg

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My insurance does...

PS. I hate insurance gate keepers... just plain hate them. Did they go to medical/pharmacy school? No... they got a BA... or at best a BS in bio.

2 YEARS SHADOWING??

I've been digging through SDN and it seems that the general consensus is that you don't need more than ~50-60 hours of shadowing.
I don't think you have to devote two years to the task. Just shadow 3-4 different physicians, spending 2-3 weeks with each.

You should have 150+ hours of clinical volunteering on the other hand...

hellocubed said:

2 YEARS SHADOWING??

I've been digging through SDN and it seems that the general consensus is that you don't need more than ~50-60 hours of shadowing.
I don't think you have to devote two years to the task. Just shadow 3-4 different physicians, spending 2-3 weeks with each.

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You don't think??

100 hours over 2 years is not that crazy.

Unfortunately I myself will only have 30 hours of shadowing, most likely combined (assuming the AMCAS rejects pharmacy school shadowing and asks what I did on my own. Rage at them for that), and within a 2 week time span.

You don't think??

100 hours over 2 years is not that crazy.

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Yeah, it definitely is not. I just wanted to confirm that he wasn't under the impression that he would need 200+ hours of shadowing (I've known some people).

For some reason I thought he would devote 2 years of EC's to nothing but shadowing. ~5 hours a day for around 20 days of shadowing, could be happily done over a summer or two. More time for other things... like debating if Anne Hathaway looks ridiculous in the Dark Knight Rises