Only 13% of doctors agree with AMA's support of current health reform law

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Morzh

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http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi...ma-split-over-contentious-issue-of-obamacare/

The second half of the article is spent discussing the medicare/medicaid reimbursement woes we are all familiar with, but I thought the first page was pretty interesting and revealing.

From my general perusing of pre-allo I get the impression that pre-meds, and even medical students to some degree, are far more balanced politically and in their support for the ideologically left-of-the-aisle law. But something happens between "pre-med" and "actual practicing physician" that pushes the majority (perhaps even vast majority) of doctors into one camp on this issue.

Whatever is responsible for that dramatic shift in ideology is even more fascinating than the results of this study.

Regardless, if the recent rumors are true that the Supreme Court will likely take on the law next month and render a final decision sometime next summer, then the 2012 election is inevitably going to be a spectacular fireworks display (from both sides).

:corny:
 
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http://www.forbes.com/sites/sallypi...ma-split-over-contentious-issue-of-obamacare/

The second half of the article is spent discussing the medicare/medicaid reimbursement woes we are all familiar with, but I thought the first page was pretty interesting and revealing.

From my general perusing of pre-allo I get the impression that pre-meds, and even medical students to some degree, are far more balanced politically and in their support for the ideologically left-of-the-aisle law. But something happens between "pre-med" and "actual practicing physician" that pushes the majority (perhaps even vast majority) of doctors into one camp on this issue.

Whatever is responsible for that dramatic shift in ideology is even more fascinating than the results of this study.

Regardless, if the recent rumors are true that the Supreme Court will likely take on the law next month and render a final decision sometime next summer, then the 2012 election is inevitably going to be a spectacular fireworks display (from both sides).

:corny:

Hmmmm... perhaps it's the, I don't know, loss of optimism and idealism once you've actually started the training process. It's easy to join the chorus of "free healthcare for all!" "I don't mind making $80k!" when you have absolutely no skin in the game.

Also, important distinction: the AMA and AAMC aren't the same thing.
 
“People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.”

Benjamin Franklin
 
Hmmmm... perhaps it's the, I don't know, loss of optimism and idealism once you've actually started the training process. It's easy to join the chorus of "free healthcare for all!" "I don't mind making $80k!" when you have absolutely no skin in the game.

Also, important distinction: the AMA and AAMC aren't the same thing.

Aren't you just a couple of months into your M1 year?

Also OP, the author of this article wrote The Truth About Obamacare and the poll it references was conducted online. I know there's a lot of doctor dissatisfaction with the health care law, but come on, would 87% disapproval of it really make any sense?
 
Interesting article. Its a shame that doctors have to choose either to make enough money to cover loans and malpractice insurance or to help the people whose social situation makes them most prone to health issues. There has got to be some type of balance between extending coverage to more Americans without decreasing the quality and docs still being able to make a decent living.
 
"People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both."

Benjamin Franklin

Actually, what Ben Franklin wrote was:

Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.
Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

If you're going to quote the greats, take the time to get it right. It's already misquoted all the time. The true quote is actually more fitting.

I'm not a member of the AMA. No one I've ever asked is a member of the AMA. They don't represent the profession properly, and I think it's a joke that they even try. It's even sadder that congress, the media, etc gives them the voice at all. "Physicians support this plan, the AMA endorsed it." BULLSH...!!! I'm not sure who they really represent at all. My professional society isn't the best voice either, but at least they try to represent the opinion of the majority of practicing anesthesiologists. Their PAC is also very powerful.
 
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I'm not a member of the AMA. No one I've ever asked is a member of the AMA. They don't represent the profession properly, and I think it's a joke that they even try. It's even sadder that congress, the media, etc gives them the voice at all. "Physicians support this plan, the AMA endorsed it." BULLSH...!!! I'm not sure who they really represent at all. My professional society isn't the best voice either, but at least they try to represent the opinion of the majority of practicing anesthesiologists. Their PAC is also very powerful.

I feel like it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a sense. If one doesn't feel that it represents the profession properly, why not join and work to change that? /derail
 
Aren't you just a couple of months into your M1 year?

Also OP, the author of this article wrote The Truth About Obamacare and the poll it references was conducted online. I know there's a lot of doctor dissatisfaction with the health care law, but come on, would 87% disapproval of it really make any sense?

Does that make the point any less true?
 
I feel like it's a self-fulfilling prophecy, in a sense. If one doesn't feel that it represents the profession properly, why not join and work to change that? /derail

Exactly. This has always been the tried and true way to change an organization, join and get more people of your view point to join and start a movement within to have it represent your values. For what it's worth, it's the largest organization we have at the moment and therefore has the most pull. These other ancillary groups haven't done much (though the AMA) hasn't done a big deal the last several decades either it seems.

Then again, some people do it for the lulz, I did it for the Netter's flash cards...
 
Does that make the point any less true?

Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but being in your first year of medical school does not put you any more "in the know" in regard to health policy than the next person.

The fact that the survey had a 1% response rate certainly does make the whole premise of the article less valid though.
 
Does that make the point any less true?

It gives you an idea of the authors leanings and I'm relatively sure there was nothing scientific about the poll.

I believe this has been discussed before, but by calling it Obamacare you are introducing a certain bias. So if the survey for example came up under a search for Obamacare you would be preferentially getting one type of people. If the survey was sent out to physicians with the term Obamacare on it I'm sure it was ignored by people who look more favorably on it.

Polls and surveys really need to be conducted by independent agencies and the questions asked need to carefully constructed and closely monitored so no bias is introduced along the way.
 
It gives you an idea of the authors leanings and I'm relatively sure there was nothing scientific about the poll.

I believe this has been discussed before, but by calling it Obamacare you are introducing a certain bias. So if the survey for example came up under a search for Obamacare you would be preferentially getting one type of people. If the survey was sent out to physicians with the term Obamacare on it I'm sure it was ignored by people who look more favorably on it.

Polls and surveys really need to be conducted by independent agencies and the questions asked need to carefully constructed and closely monitored so no bias is introduced along the way.

Here's the survey:

http://www.jacksoncoker.com/news/News.aspx?sc_cid=AMA

They didn't call it Obamacare, but they did send it out to 110,000 physicians and only ended up receiving about 1000 replies. Whoever chooses to participate in a poll inviting you to share you displeasure with the AMA is going to be self selected. The results don't mean anything.
 
Here's the survey:

http://www.jacksoncoker.com/news/News.aspx?sc_cid=AMA

They didn't call it Obamacare, but they did send it out to 110,000 physicians and only ended up receiving about 1000 replies. Whoever chooses to participate in a poll inviting you to share you displeasure with the AMA is going to be self selected. The results don't mean anything.

I stand corrected. I think the secret behind the results lies in the geographic area the of respondents, about halfway down the survey. The political leanings of the areas more heavily represented in the survey speaks volumes.
 
Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, but being in your first year of medical school does not put you any more "in the know" in regard to health policy than the next person.

The fact that the survey had a 1% response rate certainly does make the whole premise of the article less valid though.

I'm not saying anything about the survey. I'm talking about my experience, the experiences of older students, and experiences of many residents and physicians with whom I've spoken. Nor did I say I was an expert on health policy. I simply discussed some of the experiences and attitudes that I and many others have experienced which has surely been a contributing factor to physicians being less disillusioned with FREE CARE FOR ALL, PAY US NOTHING, etc. tactics (which, by the way, is obviously not indicative of the position of all physicians).

And with respect to that, my dear friend, I'm certainly more "in the know," as you say, than the average pre-med student.
 
I would also add that it's easy to dismiss surveys that you don't agree with. The response rate is obviously extremely low and that likely led to less reliable data, but I have a hard time believing that this survey somehow managed to get data that is the OPPOSITE of the truth, which you (cheesier) seem to be subtly implying. While the article that the OP linked to certainly had a bias, I don't see anything in the survey that screams blatant bias to me.
 
Hmmmm... perhaps it's the, I don't know, loss of optimism and idealism once you've actually started the training process. It's easy to join the chorus of "free healthcare for all!" "I don't mind making $80k!" when you have absolutely no skin in the game.

Also, important distinction: the AMA and AAMC aren't the same thing.

People think that an universal healthcare system will screw doctors as they will be paid way less than they do now. But if you look around the world, which would be almost every other industrialized country you can see that in some countries doctors make as much or arguably more.

For example, in Germany doctors in average make about 3/4th of what doctors make here, but only pay around 10k/year in malpractice insurance, while doctors here pay way more than that.

In the UK, general doctors get bonuses for making people healthier and not for the amount of people they see.

Regular people would be be able to pay less for medications and mri/ct/etc as the government can push down the price when negotiating with the corporations. Pharmaceuticals here do not have to prove that the "new" medications they come out with are better or much different than the ones already in the market, so ~75% of all new drugs are "me-too" drugs. they also spend twice as much on advertising than on research, yet blame research for their high costs

Doctors are not on the defensive thinking that they are going to be sued, and run whatever tests they feel necessary without the insurance bitching at them. The cost of malpractice system accounts for ~2% of the US health care cost

Second ~25% is wasted in clerical work, due to the ridiculous health care system we have in place. So hospitals, private practices could save some cash if they didn't have to hire so many people to just take care of insurances, etc

Note: Some of this numbers may be 2 or so years old
 
I would also add that it's easy to dismiss surveys that you don't agree with. The response rate is obviously extremely low and that likely led to less reliable data, but I have a hard time believing that this survey somehow managed to get data that is the OPPOSITE of the truth, which you (cheesier) seem to be subtly implying. While the article that the OP linked to certainly had a bias, I don't see anything in the survey that screams blatant bias to me.

No, I would assume that physician support for the HC reform bill is pretty close to the general population's, not the opposite of what the survey says. There's obviously no "blatant bias" in the article; the self selecting 1% who chose to respond seems bias enough to me.
 
I would also add that it's easy to dismiss surveys that you don't agree with. The response rate is obviously extremely low and that likely led to less reliable data, but I have a hard time believing that this survey somehow managed to get data that is the OPPOSITE of the truth, which you (cheesier) seem to be subtly implying. While the article that the OP linked to certainly had a bias, I don't see anything in the survey that screams blatant bias to me.

I find the similarity in all responses across all the questions pretty suspicious.
 
Exactly. This has always been the tried and true way to change an organization, join and get more people of your view point to join and start a movement within to have it represent your values. For what it's worth, it's the largest organization we have at the moment and therefore has the most pull. These other ancillary groups haven't done much (though the AMA) hasn't done a big deal the last several decades either it seems.

Then again, some people do it for the lulz, I did it for the Netter's flash cards...

The ASA PAC is 2-3 times larger than the AMA PAC. Money talks.
Why would I waste time with the AMA. The ASA can represent me, and the interests of anesthesiologists much more effectively.
 
I do believe that the quality of healthcare would deteriorate rather than improve under ObamaCare.
 
I do believe that the quality of healthcare would deteriorate rather than improve under ObamaCare.

the overall quality of healthcare is startlingly low in this country unless you are just talking about those with good insurance.
 
The ASA PAC is 2-3 times larger than the AMA PAC. Money talks.
Why would I waste time with the AMA. The ASA can represent me, and the interests of anesthesiologists much more effectively.

You may have more insight into this than I do: are there issues for which physicians (as a whole) should have a single representing body, rather than one that represents the interests of a single specialty?
 
the overall quality of healthcare is startlingly low in this country unless you are just talking about those with good insurance.

Wrong. This knee-jerk "sound bite" is spouted off all the time but it is so wrong.

The overall health of the average American is not ideal, true. But that has a lot more to do with cultural and lifestyle trends of the public than with the healthcare community's performance.

When it comes to healthcare--meaning the quality of our physicians (and other health workers) and the high standards of care to which they are held--we are near the front of the pack.
 
Wrong. This knee-jerk "sound bite" is spouted off all the time but it is so wrong.

The overall health of the average American is not ideal, true. But that has a lot more to do with cultural and lifestyle trends of the public than with the healthcare community's performance.

When it comes to healthcare--meaning the quality of our physicians (and other health workers) and the high standards of care to which they are held--we are near the front of the pack.

right actually. I never said the quality of healthcare was bad (in fact specified the opposite for those with good insurance, who receive excellent and expedient healthcare). Just the overall quality taking into account what you are talking about with respect to people with poor or no insurance. The healthcare afforded to these people sucks frankly and this is what drags down our overall healthcare rating as well as health rating.
 
I would also add that it's easy to dismiss surveys that you don't agree with. The response rate is obviously extremely low and that likely led to less reliable data, but I have a hard time believing that this survey somehow managed to get data that is the OPPOSITE of the truth, which you (cheesier) seem to be subtly implying. While the article that the OP linked to certainly had a bias, I don't see anything in the survey that screams blatant bias to me.

Actually, I find this very easy to believe. If the response rate is less than 1% (1,000/111,000), then that obviously means that you're only going to get people who have strong feelings about the law. Considering that most of the left is lukewarm about it at best (the people who would have been the most enthusiastic wanted single-payer), that leaves the people who really didn't like the concept in the first place. And there were certainly a lot more of those.
 
I'm not saying anything about the survey. I'm talking about my experience, the experiences of older students, and experiences of many residents and physicians with whom I've spoken. Nor did I say I was an expert on health policy. I simply discussed some of the experiences and attitudes that I and many others have experienced which has surely been a contributing factor to physicians being less disillusioned with FREE CARE FOR ALL, PAY US NOTHING, etc. tactics (which, by the way, is obviously not indicative of the position of all physicians).

I just wanted to say that I think this is a plausible explanation for the responses that were provided to the survey.

The OP's assertion of a "dramatic shift in ideology," on the other hand. I don't know if anyone is arguing that this is true for all physicians, though I'm sure we all wish someone were, so that we could continue to avoid studying. Or maybe that's just me wishing that.
 
People think that an universal healthcare system will screw doctors as they will be paid way less than they do now. But if you look around the world, which would be almost every other industrialized country you can see that in some countries doctors make as much or arguably more.

For example, in Germany doctors in average make about 3/4th of what doctors make here, but only pay around 10k/year in malpractice insurance, while doctors here pay way more than that.

In the UK, general doctors get bonuses for making people healthier and not for the amount of people they see.

Regular people would be be able to pay less for medications and mri/ct/etc as the government can push down the price when negotiating with the corporations. Pharmaceuticals here do not have to prove that the "new" medications they come out with are better or much different than the ones already in the market, so ~75% of all new drugs are "me-too" drugs. they also spend twice as much on advertising than on research, yet blame research for their high costs

Doctors are not on the defensive thinking that they are going to be sued, and run whatever tests they feel necessary without the insurance bitching at them. The cost of malpractice system accounts for ~2% of the US health care cost

Second ~25% is wasted in clerical work, due to the ridiculous health care system we have in place. So hospitals, private practices could save some cash if they didn't have to hire so many people to just take care of insurances, etc

Note: Some of this numbers may be 2 or so years old

You're horribly oversimplifying the situation in some respects, and in some cases you're flat out wrong. Perhaps with the exception of primary care, physicians don't get paid more on the average anywhere than they do in the US, especially when it comes to specialties. I'm not sure how they could get paid "arguably more," as you say.

Fee-for-service is no doubt a major problem with the system. But I hope you also realize that there are problems with a quality-based reimbursement system. Medicaid patients have HUGE problems getting care due to their low reimbursement rates. What makes you think that physicians wouldn't refuse to take on patients with high morbidity illnesses or need high risk procedures? These populations would then be marginalized. Unless, of course, you're going to make it illegal for physicians to choose their patients...

The salaries are high partially to offset many of the costs that are unique to the US. The medical education process in the socialized countries is ENTIRELY different than what it is here, especially with respect to cost as an example. Medical education in many of the European countries is either free or heavily subsidized; as a result, the government a.k.a. insurer has enough leverage to pay lower salaries to its physicians in addition to physicians incurring significantly lower costs in order to enter the field. In some cases you also enter directly into medical school, which means no costs associated with getting a bachelors.

Second, I'd like to see your citation for the cost of clerical work. I'm not denying that overhead/administrative waste is present in the current system - it definitely is. I just don't know what the exact number is, and I'm not sure how accurate the 25% number is.

To avoid writing an extremely long post, I'm just going to say that while single payer systems certainly have their advantages, they also have their disadvantages. They aren't a utopian dream world where everyone has top-notch care at a low price at every street corner. That simply doesn't happen.

And we're not even getting into the philosophical arguments about single payer/government-provided coverage.

the overall quality of healthcare is startlingly low in this country unless you are just talking about those with good insurance.

You know what the darndest thing is? The majority of people in this country DO have decent health coverage, and for most people the insurance does its job and does it well. We don't hear about the millions upon millions upon millions of people that receive fantastic care. Instead, we hear the rare stories where insurance companies deny reimbursement for cancer treatments, drop someone's coverage when they get sick, etc.. Well I never...

I'm not at all saying that our healthcare system is ideal or can't be improved. There are definitely serious issues that need to be addressed, and the system isn't (and will never be) fair. But let's at least be fair with what we DO have. Out health system isn't equivalent to that of a third world country for the majority of the population. The healthcare system works and works well for most people. We can reform poor practices and expand coverage to those who need it without completely razing the current system just to follow in the footsteps of the Europeans.
 
Actually, I find this very easy to believe. If the response rate is less than 1% (1,000/111,000), then that obviously means that you're only going to get people who have strong feelings about the law. Considering that most of the left is lukewarm about it at best (the people who would have been the most enthusiastic wanted single-payer), that leaves the people who really didn't like the concept in the first place. And there were certainly a lot more of those.

This conjecture is really no better than mine.
 
You're horribly oversimplifying the situation in some respects, and in some cases you're flat out wrong. Perhaps with the exception of primary care, physicians don't get paid more on the average anywhere than they do in the US, especially when it comes to specialties. I'm not sure how they could get paid "arguably more," as you say.

Fee-for-service is no doubt a major problem with the system. But I hope you also realize that there are problems with a quality-based reimbursement system. Medicaid patients have HUGE problems getting care due to their low reimbursement rates. What makes you think that physicians wouldn't refuse to take on patients with high morbidity illnesses or need high risk procedures? These populations would then be marginalized. Unless, of course, you're going to make it illegal for physicians to choose their patients...

The salaries are high partially to offset many of the costs that are unique to the US. The medical education process in the socialized countries is ENTIRELY different than what it is here, especially with respect to cost as an example. Medical education in many of the European countries is either free or heavily subsidized; as a result, the government a.k.a. insurer has enough leverage to pay lower salaries to its physicians in addition to physicians incurring significantly lower costs in order to enter the field. In some cases you also enter directly into medical school, which means no costs associated with getting a bachelors.

Second, I'd like to see your citation for the cost of clerical work. I'm not denying that overhead/administrative waste is present in the current system - it definitely is. I just don't know what the exact number is, and I'm not sure how accurate the 25% number is.

To avoid writing an extremely long post, I'm just going to say that while single payer systems certainly have their advantages, they also have their disadvantages. They aren't a utopian dream world where everyone has top-notch care at a low price at every street corner. That simply doesn't happen.

And we're not even getting into the philosophical arguments about single payer/government-provided coverage.



You know what the darndest thing is? The majority of people in this country DO have decent health coverage, and for most people the insurance does its job and does it well. We don't hear about the millions upon millions upon millions of people that receive fantastic care. Instead, we hear the rare stories where insurance companies deny reimbursement for cancer treatments, drop someone's coverage when they get sick, etc.. Well I never...

I'm not at all saying that our healthcare system is ideal or can't be improved. There are definitely serious issues that need to be addressed, and the system isn't (and will never be) fair. But let's at least be fair with what we DO have. Out health system isn't equivalent to that of a third world country for the majority of the population. The healthcare system works and works well for most people. We can reform poor practices and expand coverage to those who need it without completely razing the current system just to follow in the footsteps of the Europeans.

I've seen this number more around 21%.

All the research I've seen says that the majority of people in this country are either uninsured or under-insured. And the reason we rank 37th among 191 nations in quality of care is b/c of the treatment these groups receive.

I completely agree with most of the last passage of yours though. If I were to get seriously sick somewhere I would want it to be here. For those that have access to it, the quality is almost unparalleled. There are some things I wish they had available in other countries (like access to new medical trials) but you can't have it all.

Universal healthcare comes with it's downsides as well though.
 
Let's be realistic, the US certainly has the resources to fund universal health care, whether it's through the federal budget or the pockets of private corporations and people (and in particular, businesspeople). The primary barrier to reform is a lack of political and social will.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify: health care reform is only the latest in a long run of "poor people issues" -- because, as you say, people who can afford to have insurance are generally receiving adequate care. People who have money to live by don't need welfare, or public health care, or social services. In the current economic climate, poor people > rich people. So why is this still such a contentious issue?
 
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Let's be realistic, the US certainly has the resources to fund universal health care, whether it's through the federal budget or the pockets of private corporations and people (and in particular, businesspeople). The primary barrier to reform is a lack of political and social will.

EDIT: Wanted to clarify: health care reform is only the latest in a long run of "poor people issues" -- because, as you say, people who can afford to have insurance are generally receiving adequate care. People who have money to live by don't need welfare, or public health care, or social services. In the current economic climate, poor people > rich people. So why is this still such a contentious issue?

This isn't the french revolution. It's healthcare. A delicate issue that people have conflicting views on. Universal healthcare isn't as easy as you foresee btw. If we instituted it tomorrow we'd face doctor shortages, long waits for medical procedures that aren't immediately necessary, ethics of resource allocation, the list goes on.
 
You know what the darndest thing is? The majority of people in this country DO have decent health coverage, and for most people the insurance does its job and does it well. We don't hear about the millions upon millions upon millions of people that receive fantastic care. Instead, we hear the rare stories where insurance companies deny reimbursement for cancer treatments, drop someone's coverage when they get sick, etc.. Well I never...

I take issue with this paragraph.

A few days ago the US made headlines for reaching 50 million uninsured Americans.

src: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-09-17-uninsured17_ST_N.htm

Add in another 49 million Americans on Medicaid.

src: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2011/September/13/census-data-on-health-coverage.aspx

Another 45 million on Medicare.

src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

So with all of those combined, almost 1/2 of Americans are either uninsured or enrolled in the much-maligned, underfunded government insurance programs. Clearly this is not a problem that can just be ignored or brushed aside as a problem for a minority of Americans.

This problem is likely not noticed by most (without a view of the underlying financials) in the acute setting since everyone gets the standard of care regardless of their ability to pay (to my knowledge). I can only imagine how many of these would be left to fend for themselves if not for EMTALA. I think seniors may actually provide a big impetus for change, because if Medicare's woes are not solved in the future, seniors may well have difficulty accessing appropriate primary care and sub-acute resources. Enough dissatisfaction among seniors could lead to the election of a candidate with a feasible plan to fix the financials behind our healthcare system.
 
I take issue with this paragraph.

A few days ago the US made headlines for reaching 50 million uninsured Americans.

src: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-09-17-uninsured17_ST_N.htm

Add in another 49 million Americans on Medicaid.

src: http://www.kaiserhealthnews.org/Daily-Reports/2011/September/13/census-data-on-health-coverage.aspx

Another 45 million on Medicare.

src: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_(United_States)

So with all of those combined, almost 1/2 of Americans are either uninsured or enrolled in the much-maligned, underfunded government insurance programs. Clearly this is not a problem that can just be ignored or brushed aside as a problem for a minority of Americans.

This problem is likely not noticed by most (without a view of the underlying financials) in the acute setting since everyone gets the standard of care regardless of their ability to pay (to my knowledge). I can only imagine how many of these would be left to fend for themselves if not for EMTALA. I think seniors may actually provide a big impetus for change, because if Medicare's woes are not solved in the future, seniors may well have difficulty accessing appropriate primary care and sub-acute resources. Enough dissatisfaction among seniors could lead to the election of a candidate with a feasible plan to fix the financials behind our healthcare system.

The article states that much of the rise in the uninsured population is due to loss of a job which resulted in loss of insurance - one of the many things (i.e., the seemingly inviolable relationship between insurance and employment) that needs to be reformed. Unemployment is currently 9.1%; if you look back just to 2001, unemployment was at 4%. Unemployment alone, then, has resulted in about 15 million people losing insurance coverage. I think we can agree that that the unemployed constitute a different population than those who are working yet can't afford coverage. I'm more concerned about the latter than the former (though I'm not saying that the former doesn't need to be addressed).

As far as Medicare and Medicaid, that's more difficult because we can argue endlessly about what is considered underinsured vs. properly insured. These people DO have some sort of coverage, which is at least a start. Again, I'm more focused on expanding coverage to people that have NO coverage at all. If we do that, then I think we can start to address what levels of care are "right." As with the last paragraph, this isn't at all saying that these things don't need to be addressed. But there are, in my opinion, bigger fish to fry, i.e., the entirely uninsured.

I didn't quite phrase my point correctly. I should say that ONCE you have coverage, the system primarily works and it primarily works well. We have a few populations where the system is definitely failing and where we need to especially work on improving things: the unemployed and the poor (where "poor" refers to anyone unable to afford coverage). You might throw in seniors there depending upon your opinion of Medicare, but as I said, Medicare beneficiaries at least have a pretty significant level of coverage.

Another problem with the debate is when you start getting into the middle class that really COULD afford insurance premiums, but choose not to purchase coverage or can't afford coverage given their current lifestyles. Our society has engendered a pretty strong tendency to SPEND SPEND SPEND on things that you WANT rather than SAVE and spend on things you NEED. This isn't quantifiable, but I think everyone can agree that this is a pretty prominent problem, especially for the population of individuals that, given changes in lifestyle, could afford quality coverage. It's easy to dismiss this factor, but it should be at least considered.

General caveat: don't think I believe that there aren't any problems with the system. There definitely are. But detailing all of them would require a tome.
 
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Why do most doctors vote "no" on a chance to decrease the influences of greedy insurance companies?
 
The article states that much of the rise in the uninsured population is due to loss of a job which resulted in loss of insurance - one of the many things (i.e., the seemingly inviolable relationship between insurance and employment) that needs to be reformed. Unemployment is currently 9.1%; if you look back just to 2001, unemployment was at 4%. Unemployment alone, then, has resulted in about 15 million people losing insurance coverage. I think we can agree that that the unemployed constitute a different population than those who are working yet can't afford coverage. I'm more concerned about the latter than the former (though I'm not saying that the former doesn't need to be addressed).

As far as Medicare and Medicaid, that's more difficult because we can argue endlessly about what is considered underinsured vs. properly insured. These people DO have some sort of coverage, which is at least a start. Again, I'm more focused on expanding coverage to people that have NO coverage at all. If we do that, then I think we can start to address what levels of care are "right." As with the last paragraph, this isn't at all saying that these things don't need to be addressed. But there are, in my opinion, bigger fish to fry, i.e., the entirely uninsured.

I didn't quite phrase my point correctly. I should say that ONCE you have coverage, the system primarily works and it primarily works well. We have a few populations where the system is definitely failing and where we need to especially work on improving things: the unemployed and the poor (where "poor" refers to anyone unable to afford coverage). You might throw in seniors there depending upon your opinion of Medicare, but as I said, Medicare beneficiaries at least have a pretty significant level of coverage.

Another problem with the debate is when you start getting into the middle class that really COULD afford insurance premiums, but choose not to purchase coverage or can't afford coverage given their current lifestyles. Our society has engendered a pretty strong tendency to SPEND SPEND SPEND on things that you WANT rather than SAVE and spend on things you NEED. This isn't quantifiable, but I think everyone can agree that this is a pretty prominent problem, especially for the population of individuals that, given changes in lifestyle, could afford quality coverage. It's easy to dismiss this factor, but it should be at least considered.

General caveat: don't think I believe that there aren't any problems with the system. There definitely are. But detailing all of them would require a tome.

I think the operative word in this discussion is 'sustainability'. How sustainable is the system we have in place, and how urgent is it that we correct the problems? As you said, it's a complicated system with many issues that are interwoven with economic ones. Part of the reason that unemployment is so high is due to the debt crisis, which was triggered by government spending, including on Medicare/aid. We pay docs so little that many are hesitant to accept Medicare pts, yet few will agree that the growth in Medicare spending is sustainable. Reigning in costs while making it affordable for more physicians to see Medicare pts is critically important for our long-term economic stability (which brings with it more employment and less people without insurance).

Ultimately I think the entitlement programs like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security are here to stay, for better or for worse -- we just need to find a way to streamline them and make them more sustainable over the long run.
 
The AMA just had to agree in order to stay relevant. The vast majority of practicing physicians of course don't want this. Nevertheless, this may have been a good move by the AMA because at least we have a seat at the negotiating table now.
 
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