Caribbean Schools!!!!! Why/Why not?

Use the search, this has been discussed to death.

omgmd said:

I have been looking at different medical schools, and I stumbled upon Caribbean schools.
What do you guys think of pros/cons for Caribbean schools? Is it even worth trying?

And what schools would you place over others? Why?

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The only pro for a Caribbean med school is that it's easy to get into. Oh and the weather is nicer than a US med school (well... except for some of the schools in CA and FL). The cons? Everything else.

Enjoy the sun for 2+ years, leave with enormous debt and nowhere to pay it off.

JohnnyRomanes said:

Enjoy the sun for 2+ years, leave with enormous debt and nowhere to pay it off.

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Yea but think of all the weed you could smoke for those two years......would be one hell of a run.

Difficult to get a us residency afterwards. Can't do much without a residency.

DeterminedDoc said:

Yea but think of all the weed you could smoke for those two years......would be one hell of a run.

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Backup Plan: Become the next George Jung.

DeterminedDoc said:

Yea but think of all the weed you could smoke for those two years......would be one hell of a run.

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You kidding? If I was in the Caribbean I would sit in a dark corner and study my mind off, just so I have the chance to come back to the states. I would probably abstain from having any fun whatsoever, it'd actually be more stressful rather than fun.

You kidding? If I was in the Caribbean I would sit in a dark corner and study my mind off, just so I have the chance to come back to the states. I would probably abstain from having any fun whatsoever, it'd actually be more stressful rather than fun.

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Mannn.....you need to chillllll broski. Like this guy (who is probably a graduate from SGU for all you know):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MorR04iLtMw

Stumpyman said:

You kidding? If I was in the Caribbean I would sit in a dark corner and study my mind off, just so I have the chance to come back to the states. I would probably abstain from having any fun whatsoever, it'd actually be more stressful rather than fun.

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This. A lot of the people in the Caribbean already partied too hard while in college and dug themselves into a hole. The offshore school is a hail Mary attempt to get a career back on track. You need to close yourself in with some books and get serious, finally or it's a nonstarter. If you finish those 4 years with a tan you probably wasted too mch time. Which is why the folks who can straighten things out and land nice residency spots deserve kudos. Everyone else I just throwing bad money after good. If you want to spend 4-5 years in the Caribbean getting high, there are much cheaper ways than med school.

I would like to see someone defend going to Caribbean schools?

btown8908 said:

I would like to see someone defend going to Caribbean schools?

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Just for you, I think going to the Caribbean is a reasonable option for international students who will have a difficult time getting into US schools.

they are for n00bs

RookTookIt said:

Just for you, I think going to the Caribbean is a reasonable option for international students who will have a difficult time getting into US schools.

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Any more takers? Don't know anyone myself who has been to one or is in one currently, and it always sucks that one side (in this case not going to the Caribbean) dominates the argument.

RookTookIt said:

Just for you, I think going to the Caribbean is a reasonable option for international students who will have a difficult time getting into US schools.

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Also for Canadian students that can't get into Canadian schools (it's tougher to get into Canadian med school than US) and then can't get into US schools and then can't get into DO schools or don't want to go the DO route....

One thing that people don't talk about since they think the Caribbean is all about vacationing and good weather is that it's not the nicest place to live outside of all the resorts that everyone thinks about....a lot of rundown homes and shacks and some neighborhoods resemble third world conditions.

btown8908 said:

I would like to see someone defend going to Caribbean schools?

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The only pro of going to a Carib school: when a nurse says "so what f***ing island did you go to med school?" to you when you inevitably mess something up during your intern year, you'll actually be able to give a legit answer with a straight face rather than a blank stare that non-Carib grads will.

That said, here is a really good blog of a Carib med student - http://www.caribbeanmedstudent.com/

also check out his blog library of other Carib med students - http://www.caribbeanmedstudent.com/other-blogs/

Was just trying to help the OP out haha. It was an overwhelming "hell no" to go to a Caribbean school. I myself am staying in the US next year.

btown8908 said:

I would like to see someone defend going to Caribbean schools?

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What possible defense could there be?

The students are not as strong as those at US & Canadian schools (no one turns down an offer on the mainland (or Puerto Rico or Hawaii) to go to an off shore school)

It is easy to get in but hard to stay in and many students flunk out at which point you are damaged goods and out the tuition

If you do succeed in graduating you will have a hard time getting a residency because research shows that off-shore grads do less well as attending physicians than those trained in the US or those who immigrated to the US after doing med school in their home countries (see recent thread discussing a recent article on that topic)

There is a bias among physicians and other health professionals (and perhaps among knowledgable members of the public) against physicians trained off shore thus the nurse's snide question, "which island granted your medical degree?". These days with every licensed physician having their credentials posted through internet sites, the information about where a doctor went to school is available before someone makes an appointment and sees the diploma on the wall.

btown8908 said:

Any more takers? Don't know anyone myself who has been to one or is in one currently, and it always sucks that one side (in this case not going to the Caribbean) dominates the argument.

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I know several folks who would never have gotten into a US school even with a significant amount of grade rehabilitation, went offshore, did nothing but study for 4-5 years, kicked butt, and after a few ups and downs are now residents in decent albeit less competitive programs. So it is the hail Mary last ditch opportunity that some people need. But you have to be that special kind of person who can make the most out of that one in a million last chance. Much of their class spent a ton of money and didn't even end up doctors. But for a handful it works, and probably allows the profession to pull back in that 1-2% who were too talented to just throw into the scrap heap. it's a very low yield gamble, but if you have no other options, and still want to be a doctor, and have the right focus, I have no problem with that. It's the people who jump at offshore schools before exhausting all other, higher yield, avenues that need their heads examined.

Law2Doc said:

This. A lot of the people in the Caribbean already partied too hard while in college and dug themselves into a hole. The offshore school is a hail Mary attempt to get a career back on track. You need to close yourself in with some books and get serious, finally or it's a nonstarter. If you finish those 4 years with a tan you probably wasted too mch time. Which is why the folks who can straighten things out and land nice residency spots deserve kudos. Everyone else I just throwing bad money after good. If you want to spend 4-5 years in the Caribbean getting high, there are much cheaper ways than med school.

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I agree 100%. I think the students who will not succeed in the Caribbean are those who had flawed study habits in undergrad. By having immediate acceptance to a Caribbean school, the underlying problem is NOT solved. Therefore they may drop out or not match in the US. If they are reapplicants to US schools, then they need to change their ways.

On the other hand, if you have "qualified" students going to the Caribbean because they are against DO or couldnt get through the bullsh*t of medical school admissions, then they will probably succeed at schools like SGU.

Its when you are not solving underlying flaws that creates the big issues.

AllDaWEI said:

...

On the other hand, if you have "qualified" students going to the Caribbean because they are against DO or couldnt get through the bullsh*t of medical school admissions, then they will probably succeed at schools like SGU....

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I think the point though is that if they didn't go offshore, there would be no "probably" in your sentence. Folks who go to med school in the US statistically do end up doctors. Folks who go offshore frequently don't. You are creating an uphill climb for yourself, and if it can be avoided, with a modicum of work, you do that.

If you go to the Caribbean and bust a-s, then you can become a legitimate US practicing MD in a high quality US residency. That's great! That's phenomenal. If that's your goal (you don't want to go DO), and you can't get into a US school, then it's a great option. You just NEED to make sure to do well in the Caribbean, because not everyone there gets a US residency.

Besides... who can argue with the weather.

johnisles2011 said:

Besides... who can argue with the weather.

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What if you enjoy snow?

If you want to spend 4-5 years in the Caribbean getting high, there are much cheaper ways than med school.

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Well not that long, but a nice joint with that Jamaican tour guide? YA MAN!

There is a bias among physicians and other health professionals (and perhaps among knowledgable members of the public) against physicians trained off shore thus the nurse's snide question, "which island granted your medical degree?". These days with every licensed physician having their credentials posted through internet sites, the information about where a doctor went to school is available before someone makes an appointment and sees the diploma on the wall.

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Yea because there aren't any biases otherwise in medicine. I mean there is still the whole MD-DO bias that does exist despite whatever misplaced notions of human character that all these lovely pre-meds who are aiming for MD and MD students have. Im sure at some hospital in Boston there is bias against doctors who weren't educated at Harvard, bias exists for the dumbest reasons. Who really cares if you have to deal with bias from some no name idiots? Your an MD at the end of the day.

robertch8 said:

....a lot of rundown homes and shacks and some neighborhoods resemble third world conditions.

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True, because they are actually third world countries Safety is also a concern.

Ever heard of the Gaza thugs?
I hear they like to kidnap FMG's who don't secure a residency spot in the U.S.

skinMD said:

if you want a blog that's probably more representative of the caribbean experience:

http://2medschool.blogspot.com/

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

http://6medschool.blogspot.com/

....i suggest you start with the last link first.

the tl;dr version is that this guy with a GPA in the 2.0s and an MCAT in the low 20s went off to Ross for med school, did 3 semesters (only passing first semester) and was kicked out. now he's wasted time and has a bunch of loans with absolutely nothing to show for it. As you can see the last post from 8 months ago suggests that he's going to try again at one of the lesser known carib schools (AUA), though we can all guess how that's going to end.....

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damn, this is very depressing...

skinMD said:

if you want a blog that's probably more representative of the caribbean experience:

http://2medschool.blogspot.com/

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

http://6medschool.blogspot.com/

....i suggest you start with the last link first.

the tl;dr version is that this guy with a GPA in the 2.0s and an MCAT in the low 20s went off to Ross for med school, did 3 semesters (only passing first semester) and was kicked out. now he's wasted time and has a bunch of loans with absolutely nothing to show for it. As you can see the last post from 8 months ago suggests that he's going to try again at one of the lesser known carib schools (AUA), though we can all guess how that's going to end.....

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I really feel bad for this guy.

flatearth22 said:

The only pro of going to a Carib school: when a nurse says "so what f***ing island did you go to med school?" to you when you inevitably mess something up during your intern year, you'll actually be able to give a legit answer with a straight face rather than a blank stare that non-Carib grads will.

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There are much more reputable island-based schools that would give you a stronger answer in similar situations.

Why would ANYBODY choose Carib. over DO route??? I've seen plenty of DO's practicing in my area, and they seem very successful. It also seems like they have a higher chance of completing their education and actually matching somewhere half-way decent...

skinMD said:

if you want a blog that's probably more representative of the caribbean experience:

http://2medschool.blogspot.com/

http://4medschool.blogspot.com/

http://6medschool.blogspot.com/

....i suggest you start with the last link first.

the tl;dr version is that this guy with a GPA in the 2.0s and an MCAT in the low 20s went off to Ross for med school, did 3 semesters (only passing first semester) and was kicked out. now he's wasted time and has a bunch of loans with absolutely nothing to show for it. As you can see the last post from 8 months ago suggests that he's going to try again at one of the lesser known carib schools (AUA), though we can all guess how that's going to end.....

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geez... I think the reality check is that you need a fairly high level of "book smarts" to get into and make it through med. If you know you dont have it, why waste time/$$?

JThornton661 said:

Why would ANYBODY choose Carib. over DO route??? I've seen plenty of DO's practicing in my area, and they seem very successful. It also seems like they have a higher chance of completing their education and actually matching somewhere half-way decent...

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Objectively I don't think anyone would. My guess would be pride issues or misinformation about the differences between the degree paths and results.

The presence of U.S. medical students (at St. George's University SGU) played a central role in the invasion of Grenada by the U.S. and other forces following the military coup in 1983. This kind of stuff happens when you leave the U.S. and those nice resorts in the Caribbean. I don't want my late night walk to the library interrupted by armed soldiers threatening "summary execution."

On 14 October 1983, a party faction led by Deputy Prime Minister Bernard Coard seized power. Bishop was placed under house arrest. Mass protests against the action led to Bishop escaping detention and reasserting his authority as the head of the government. Bishop was eventually captured and murdered along with several government officials loyal to him. The army under Hudson Austin then stepped in and formed a military council to rule the country. The Governor-General of Grenada, Paul Scoon, was placed under house arrest. The army announced a four-day total curfew where anyone seen on the streets would be subject to summary execution.

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If the wiki on the "Invasion of Grenanda" is true, then SGU has a memorial on campus dedicated to the U.S. and other servicemen that died liberating them. I don't want to need liberating.

gettheleadout said:

Objectively I don't think anyone would. My guess would be pride issues or misinformation about the differences between the degree paths and results.

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True. I recently learned of a friend from a top 15 undergrad going to Ross University for medical school. I asked him if he had considered the "DO route." He was utterly confused over what I meant by "DO."

The other problem with carribean school school is getting constant loans, I think you can only use federal student loans at 1 or 2 schools. Therefore you might have to also maintain certain criteria at the other schools to keep your loans, like keeping above a 3.0, etc.

There is no real conversation after Lizzy's remark - there is no clear reason to go to a Caribbean school unless it is absolutely your only option.

And the linked blog - a classic - is as depressing as ever.

there are many licensed physicians from the caribbeans.

also some people lack proper guidance or are mis-informed and confused. it happens. thats life.

it might not be the 'best' option, its obviously tougher, but it is an option.

i say respect those that do succeed because they made it through a system that is less in quality compared to the US medical system/resources, and they are equally as capable, in some cases more capable.

after getting to the caribbean (for those who decide to go there), as long as they learn to be determined and keep learning, they can and will succeed. its inevitable.

in the grand scheme of things none of what is discussed here will matter much - its about how you network and give back, if and when you become a physician. for those who dont, they are just chasing $ and that eventually catches up with them one way or another --> lesson from many doctors who i have spoken with.

What if you go to a medical school in the Caribbean because you're a citizen of the country where the school is located and you go to a school that caters to students from that country but just happens to be 50 state certified?

DipreSantana said:

What if you go to a medical school in the Caribbean because you're a citizen of the country where the school is located and you go to a school that caters to students from that country but just happens to be 50 state certified?

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that would be a first, but hey all the best to that person. probably would save alot of money compared to those in US med schools, as long as that person is smart enough to succeed after coming back to the US for residency.

Bl4ckout said:

So are you saying the US school systems which have more funding/sources/equipment does not pump out better/more capable doctors? I completely disagree. Thats like saying the kids from the inner city fail-schools are just as prepared for college than the suburban schools grads. I'm guessing you go to one or are planning on going to one and want to justify your choice.

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as i said "i say respect those that do succeed because they made it through a system that is less in quality compared to the US medical system/resources, and they are equally as capable, in some cases more capable. "

over-analyzing one segment of a sentence, you miss the complete message. that is the problem with the system. if everybody hooks onto a few words, and twists it and extrapolates points that have nothing to do with the purpose - thats how politics arises.

if a person has a pain in their toe, you dont cut off the leg. if a chipmunk throws a nut at you, you dont blow it up with a cannon.

and as a matter of fact, i'm currently in one, and i have met some people who are so smart you would not believe. how do I know this? i have seen their board scores and I learn along side. am I as capable? idk... maybe, maybe not... hence why I said it the way I did. - i'll let you know when i get my license.

am i justifying my choice? not really. i would much rather be in a US school after seeing the differences. but the original point i made was that there are people who succeed even through a system that is rigged and set up to keep people down. respect them, rather than finding more ways to put them down.

DipreSantana said:

What if you go to a medical school in the Caribbean because you're a citizen of the country where the school is located and you go to a school that caters to students from that country but just happens to be 50 state certified?

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Same probably everyone else has. You will still have troubles getting a decent residency, if one at all, in the US.

TheProwler said:

There's a reason for that.

It occasionally works out for some people, but it doesn't work out for most people (or at least not as well as it could have).

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That's true. Thats reality though. My perspective is to try to help people succeed and make it work out, rather than pointing and laughing at those who dont, wont, cant, or shouldnt.

Help them succeed by essentially downplaying the disadvantages of the caribbean route, therefore, maybe encouraging some easily swayed pre-med to go to the caribbean? Ya, thats some amazing logic. Also, yes, you are trying to justify it to yourself, don't be naive. Furthermore, just because you have seen good board scores does not mean jack. It is well known that caribbean schools get far more study time for the boards than US schools.

What have I learned?

Caribbean route only if it's your last option.

That's what I thought and I am glad I could get the OP's original question answered.

Good day gentleman.

tiedyeddog said:

Same probably everyone else has. You will still have troubles getting a decent residency, if one at all, in the US.

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So should I be looking to transfer to a US school? I'm also an American citizen.