need help with future planning

StilgarMD · Mar 3, 2012

Hey everyone

i want to start off by saying this is going to be long winded, but any responses and advice will go a long way towards guiding me toward my goal, and giving me peace of mind. any and all help is really really appreciated.

so, let me say a little about myself. i go to a public college in New jersey, and for most of my college career i've been jumping between doing medicine and research, every few months being pushed in one way or the other. im not 100% cemented even now, but i'm feeling like an M.D. Ph.D would make me happiest, seeing as i love the search involved in research, but i also want to feel like im directly impacting people's lives/helping them personally. ultimately, i want to be a PI with a lab, and a professor at a university. i think i'd enjoy it.

so, here is where i stand. i have about a 3.8 GPA. i have worked in a lab for about a year, and am beginning an independent project, one which has some promise (maybe even get it published). i have been teaching supplemental instruction in General biology for 2 years, and i love it. i like seeing students develop when they work at it, and helping them be better students in general. i will probably take the MCAT in August, i scored 31 on AAMC 3 cold, and with studying, am aiming for a 35 minimum. im hispanic (Venezuelan immigrant, fluent in spanish)

i had some experience in a hospital a few years ago, and though i don't feel moved by it, i know i am deeply satisfied helping those who aren't used to receiving it. particularly, i was one of 2 people who spoke spanish. in the emergency room, and i made a lot of people's visit much easier. i like helping people who appreciate it. students, patients, or even holding the door open 99% of the time, a smile suffices (not this overt character quality, just something about me, and why im considering doing what i am).

anywho, now i am a junior, and its the time for people to apply to schools. i don't find myself qualified for M.D/Ph.D programs. i'd have strong recommendations and stuff but the research isn't substantive enough in my opinion, not yet at least. i spent a year at the lab, but a LOT of that time was spent failing at western blots, with some cell culturing here and there. ill hopefully be learning FACS sorting and some immunohisto soon.

in any event, i want to get into a good M.D/Ph.D program, so im holding off on applying to the programs until next year. ill have a stronger research experience my PI can talk about in the letter, i'll have a bit higher GPA, and i will have accumulated a bunch of hospital experience by then (should really plan on how, but the point is ill have time to do so).

is there anything im missing? am i bugging out about not qualifying as of now? any advice? valuable experiences i should acquire? anything?!?! (im freaking out, if you didn't notice)

delirium81 · Mar 3, 2012

Ok. Take a deep breath. You don't need to freak out at all. Sounds like you're already in great shape. Your GPA is right on, and I think you have the right idea waiting until next year to apply to beef up your research experience. Gaining some more recent clinical experience will definitely help, although it's not as important as the research experience. Doesn't sound like you're missing anything to me. Are you freaking out because you feel like you're missing something? Or because you're unsure of your decision? Even if you're not unsure, I would still recommend talking to various PIs about their personal career trajectory as well as what you have in mind for your own career. Try to talk to PIs who arrived at their career in a variety of ways: MDs, PhDs, and MD/PhDs. It'll help give you an idea of how to get to where you want to end up, and if nothing else, it will help you more eloquently discuss the "why MD/PhD" question for applications and interviews.

ImagineThis · Mar 3, 2012

I completely agree with delirium. It seems like you have a really good head on your shoulders here. Not only are you getting into this for the right reasons (loving research and medicine) and with a perfectly acceptable goal in mind (to be a PI most of the time and work with patients too is the target for most MD/PhD programs), but you were introspective enough to realize where you are lacking (albeit slightly) and are taking appropriate measures to fix this.

Your GPA is good, if you get a 35 on the MCAT that will be good as well. Research is a little low, but you are taking the proper steps there. Clinical experience is also a little low, but a little more work in this setting and you'll be fine. Honestly, don't freak out. You are doing everything right and I expect that you will be quite successful when you apply.

Good luck!

StilgarMD · Mar 3, 2012

delirium81 said:
Ok. Take a deep breath. You don't need to freak out at all. Sounds like you're already in great shape. Your GPA is right on, and I think you have the right idea waiting until next year to apply to beef up your research experience. Gaining some more recent clinical experience will definitely help, although it's not as important as the research experience. Doesn't sound like you're missing anything to me. Are you freaking out because you feel like you're missing something? Or because you're unsure of your decision? Even if you're not unsure, I would still recommend talking to various PIs about their personal career trajectory as well as what you have in mind for your own career. Try to talk to PIs who arrived at their career in a variety of ways: MDs, PhDs, and MD/PhDs. It'll help give you an idea of how to get to where you want to end up, and if nothing else, it will help you more eloquently discuss the "why MD/PhD" question for applications and interviews.

i am mostly freaking out about not qualifying. the seats are so limited, and i hear people doing dozens of things like volunteering, shadowing, and getting clinical experience that i never did. i know the importance of those things are mitigated in the MD/Ph.D, but having nothing is pretty bad. im specfically worried about looking like one of those students who just crams in all their volunteering/experience in 1 year and not getting in because of it. i would tell the interviewer i was focused on research and only decided i wanted to do an M.D/Ph.D after experiences in my Junior year. would that suffice? also in general im panicking about studying for the MCAT, but thats just me being ridiculous.

i worry i won't have enough time to do everything i need to get my application where it needs to be. with M.D/Ph.Ds, grades and MCATs are assumed, and the thing that makes a person stand out is research and the volunteering experience i lack. i know a year will bring me up in those, but my main concern is using the year as wisely as possible.

aside from pushing myself more at the lab, keeping my GPA, and getting a good MCAT score, what else can i do? whats the most effective use of my time? i need to approach someone to shadow obviously, and i need to get some study clinical volunteering down, but once i've put in the hours, will i be alright? my main concern is looking like i just shoved in the hours at the end.

also, i want to get into an amazing M.D./Ph.D program, so i want to be razor sharp about this next year. i feel like i can get into one of those programs if i apply myself properly over the coming year, i just want to make sure all my things are in order. sorry about the panicking =P

also, im a philosophy minor, which i think makes me a better thinker in general, but should i attempt to develop that further or just stick to taking the classes i enjoy, but spending most my time in research/science/medicine? thanks a lot for the help guys.

barcamdphd21 · Mar 3, 2012

You are on the right track. First I would focus on continuing your research experience. This is by far the most important aspect of your application. You need to be able to intellingently speak about what you were doing, the reasons behind the experiments and how the results support or not your hypothesis. Starting your own independent project is a great way to learn that experience. During the interviews, I felt that most of my interviewers with the exception of a few outliers, were testing to see if you could speak intelligently and analytically about your research and to see if you have a passion for research.

Second, you need a strong MCAT Score, 35+ preferable for an MSTP. I feel like the you only need a high enough MCAT to pass the screening and then it all depends on your research and what you have been doing.

In terms of clinical experience, you need enough to demonstrate that you really learned what doctors actually do and what is the experience of patients in a hospital setting. Quality is far more important than quantity, though you still need a minium amount of hours.

Finally, pursue something that you like to do outside the lab. I also felt that many of my interviewers asked questions about what I liked to do outside the lab or classes to se if I am no actually a robo.t but a human being

StilgarMD · Mar 3, 2012

barcamdphd21 said:
You are on the right track. First I would focus on continuing your research experience. This is by far the most important aspect of your application. You need to be able to intellingently speak about what you were doing, the reasons behind the experiments and how the results support or not your hypothesis. Starting your own independent project is a great way to learn that experience. During the interviews, I felt that most of my interviewers with the exception of a few outliers, were testing to see if you could speak intelligently and analytically about your research and to see if you have a passion for research.

Second, you need a strong MCAT Score, 35+ preferable for an MSTP. I feel like the you only need a high enough MCAT to pass the screening and then it all depends on your research and what you have been doing.

In terms of clinical experience, you need enough to demonstrate that you really learned what doctors actually do and what is the experience of patients in a hospital setting. Quality is far more important than quantity, though you still need a minium amount of hours.

Finally, pursue something that you like to do outside the lab. I also felt that many of my interviewers asked questions about what I liked to do outside the lab or classes to se if I am no actually a robo.t but a human being

so i'm very good at talking about my research, people generally have the misfortune of hearing me rant about it, so thats the least of my worries. i am a very passionate speaker when it comes to science in general, so that i don't worry about.

MCATs is what im worried about. im more than capable of getting the grade, just need to lay down an effective plan, and my current status for the research is somewhat up in the air, so im just a little tense about timing, and what to do, but i just need to get my stuff together and im sure ill be 110% fine.

when it comes to hospitals, what really pushes me toward medicine is the stories my PI has told us about working in a public hospital, and the kind of experiences you can have from helping people. the guy has endless energy, typically doesn't sleep much, and really loves what he does. hes what i aspire to be. i need to find a hospital to get more experience in, and there are 2 in my local area, ill look into it.

ok, so about outside the class room... i like to read science news, watch TED talks er... play video games, im considering playing WoW again (i was one of the first people to play it when it came out many years ago, i spent two years anticipating it /hispster), but i don't think it will be in my best interest. i don't have many friends, though i am a very well liked person. idk how it came out that way, but it did. i seek quality over quantity anyday. i like to read a lot (Hence my name being a Dune reference), and i was considering taking up archery. i want to learn to code so i can make biology related video games, but a large undertaking like that just doesn't seem like it will fit with what i have planned for the next year. anyway... i like doing stuff outside of class, but will the Adcoms frown on my less than social ways (just to emphasize, i am not socially awkward in any sense of the word, i am very outgoing, i just lack friends)

Heres a bit of a snag im in. i may be doing a summer program in a town somewhat far off. the program makes me sort of worry about my summer since i feel like i should invest it more fully into the Lab, the MCATs, and clinical experience. i've read elsewhere that M.D/Ph.Ds would like it if you had a good letter from multiple PIs, so i saw this summer program as a means of getting another, while also getting my foot in at a program i want to attend. what do you guys think of this?

delirium81 · Mar 4, 2012

StilgarMD said:
i am mostly freaking out about not qualifying. the seats are so limited, and i hear people doing dozens of things like volunteering, shadowing, and getting clinical experience that i never did. i know the importance of those things are mitigated in the MD/Ph.D, but having nothing is pretty bad. im specfically worried about looking like one of those students who just crams in all their volunteering/experience in 1 year and not getting in because of it. i would tell the interviewer i was focused on research and only decided i wanted to do an M.D/Ph.D after experiences in my Junior year. would that suffice?

You really don't need to freak out about not qualifying. Your GPA is great, and if you get a 35+ on your MCAT then I practically guarantee that you will have multiple offers from good MSTPs. Even if your MCAT is slightly lower, say 32-34, your URM status will still help give you a bump up. You already have a 31, so even if you only increase it by a couple points at your next go around I still think you'd end up with some good offers. I'm guessing that the people with a ton of volunteering and shadowing experiences are going the MD-only route, correct? Don't compare yourself to them. You're playing in an entirely different ballgame. MD/PhD candidates are really expected to spend the majority of their "extracurricular" time doing research. In my experience, MD/PhD ad coms really just want to be sure that you've had at least some experience in patient care. They want to know that the applicant will be able to work with patients. It really doesn't take that much clinical experience for an ad com to feel assured that you have an idea of what medicine is like, and as long as you seem capable of normal human interactions they'll probably assume that you can interact just fine in a patient care setting. So, just to re-iterate, yes you should spend a little bit of time gaining some more recent clinical experience, but no, you don't need a lot, and no, the committee won't care at all that you haven't been doing that for the entirety of your undergrad career. The majority of your time should be spent focusing on research.

StilgarMD said:
also in general im panicking about studying for the MCAT, but thats just me being ridiculous.

Well, I'm glad you can recognize when you're being ridiculous.

Seriously, you'll be fine.

StilgarMD said:
i worry i won't have enough time to do everything i need to get my application where it needs to be. with M.D/Ph.Ds, grades and MCATs are assumed, and the thing that makes a person stand out is research and the volunteering experience i lack. i know a year will bring me up in those, but my main concern is using the year as wisely as possible.

aside from pushing myself more at the lab, keeping my GPA, and getting a good MCAT score, what else can i do? whats the most effective use of my time? i need to approach someone to shadow obviously, and i need to get some study clinical volunteering down, but once i've put in the hours, will i be alright? my main concern is looking like i just shoved in the hours at the end.

Again, you don't need to worry about having the volunteer hours tacked on at the end. Ad coms really will not care as long as you have something. By far the biggest thing you need to do is focus on is your research. In my experience, when an applicant is being reviewed by a committee after the interview stage, the vast majority of the discussion about that applicant is regarding their ability to do research, like 80-90% of the discussion time. They want to know that you can work independently and that you can push through the many frustrations and set backs that you'll experience during a PhD and make it out at the other end. They want to be sure that you won't flake out when the research seems too daunting and head back to med school. If you're passionate about research, and you have excellent work and recommendations from PIs to back that up, you'll be fine.

StilgarMD said:
also, im a philosophy minor, which i think makes me a better thinker in general, but should i attempt to develop that further or just stick to taking the classes i enjoy, but spending most my time in research/science/medicine? thanks a lot for the help guys.

You should take classes you enjoy. This will be one of your last chances to really do that, so I say go for it. It won't hurt your application at all, and will make you look like a more interesting well-rounded candidate. I was a double major in a foreign language and I never felt like it was anything but an asset. Especially given that you'll be taking a year off to do research full-time, I whole heartedly encourage you to take classes you enjoy. You'll be a more interesting, well-rounded, not to mention happier, person for it.

ETA: Oops, just saw your question about the summer program. What's the nature of this program? Will you be doing research? What's the status of your research in your current lab? If you think that spending the coming summer in your current lab will allow you to push through a publication, then I might encourage you to do that. I think I must sound like a broken record when I say this, but I'll say it again, ad coms strongly value depth of research because they want to know that you can push through the difficult stages of a project. Spending just one summer in a lab and then moving on isn't really enough time to do that. So, while having strong letters from multiple PIs is good, you definitely want to make sure that at least one of those research experiences can show the depth that an ad com will want to see. That said, if this program is something you really want to do and you think you'll be able to make connections at a school in which you have a strong interest, and you plan on spending the coming year plus your year off in your current lab, then I don't see a good reason not to do it.

StilgarMD · Mar 6, 2012

delirium81 said:
You really don't need to freak out about not qualifying. Your GPA is great, and if you get a 35+ on your MCAT then I practically guarantee that you will have multiple offers from good MSTPs. Even if your MCAT is slightly lower, say 32-34, your URM status will still help give you a bump up. You already have a 31, so even if you only increase it by a couple points at your next go around I still think you'd end up with some good offers. I'm guessing that the people with a ton of volunteering and shadowing experiences are going the MD-only route, correct? Don't compare yourself to them. You're playing in an entirely different ballgame. MD/PhD candidates are really expected to spend the majority of their "extracurricular" time doing research. In my experience, MD/PhD ad coms really just want to be sure that you've had at least some experience in patient care. They want to know that the applicant will be able to work with patients. It really doesn't take that much clinical experience for an ad com to feel assured that you have an idea of what medicine is like, and as long as you seem capable of normal human interactions they'll probably assume that you can interact just fine in a patient care setting. So, just to re-iterate, yes you should spend a little bit of time gaining some more recent clinical experience, but no, you don't need a lot, and no, the committee won't care at all that you haven't been doing that for the entirety of your undergrad career. The majority of your time should be spent focusing on research.

Well, I'm glad you can recognize when you're being ridiculous. Seriously, you'll be fine.

Again, you don't need to worry about having the volunteer hours tacked on at the end. Ad coms really will not care as long as you have something. By far the biggest thing you need to do is focus on is your research. In my experience, when an applicant is being reviewed by a committee after the interview stage, the vast majority of the discussion about that applicant is regarding their ability to do research, like 80-90% of the discussion time. They want to know that you can work independently and that you can push through the many frustrations and set backs that you'll experience during a PhD and make it out at the other end. They want to be sure that you won't flake out when the research seems too daunting and head back to med school. If you're passionate about research, and you have excellent work and recommendations from PIs to back that up, you'll be fine.

You should take classes you enjoy. This will be one of your last chances to really do that, so I say go for it. It won't hurt your application at all, and will make you look like a more interesting well-rounded candidate. I was a double major in a foreign language and I never felt like it was anything but an asset. Especially given that you'll be taking a year off to do research full-time, I whole heartedly encourage you to take classes you enjoy. You'll be a more interesting, well-rounded, not to mention happier, person for it.

ETA: Oops, just saw your question about the summer program. What's the nature of this program? Will you be doing research? What's the status of your research in your current lab? If you think that spending the coming summer in your current lab will allow you to push through a publication, then I might encourage you to do that. I think I must sound like a broken record when I say this, but I'll say it again, ad coms strongly value depth of research because they want to know that you can push through the difficult stages of a project. Spending just one summer in a lab and then moving on isn't really enough time to do that. So, while having strong letters from multiple PIs is good, you definitely want to make sure that at least one of those research experiences can show the depth that an ad com will want to see. That said, if this program is something you really want to do and you think you'll be able to make connections at a school in which you have a strong interest, and you plan on spending the coming year plus your year off in your current lab, then I don't see a good reason not to do it.

i think depth will be displayed at my current lab whether i stay there for the summer or not. i've been there my entire junior year, and ill be doing an Honor's thesis in my department there. right now what im working on is confirming some preliminary results, but that should be done next week, and if all systems go, real tests will begin.

also, when it comes to "pushing through frustrations" i spent all of last summer and the fall semester falling miserably at Western Blots. like i did at least 10, and every time i went to the exposure room, they came up blank. i swear i was close to just shoving my head into the exposure fluid tank.

my pains with the summer is here are my choices

A) stay at my current school, maybe start teaching for Princton review and establish myself as a tutor, which will be a good income for senior year as well as something to do for my year off. i can't imagine doing anything mind blowing in the lab during the year, but i won't know until my current work is done, so for now im applying broadly and giving myself choices. if i stay in my college city, ill also be able to start my medical shadowing/volunteering sooner, though i am looking to begin in small this semester.

B) Get into one of these programs (MBL@Wood's hole or Upenn are my goals) for the summer, establish a good relationship with an active PI, show them how hard working i am, get experience elsewhere and get a good letter of rec in the process. if i get into Upenn, i imagine it would help when i am trying to get in there next year.

i think the best move would be doing research elsewhere... i just want your opinions on the matter

delirium81 · Mar 9, 2012

To be honest I think it's six of one half a dozen of another. Neither decision will make or break your application, so do whatever it is you think that you'd enjoy the most.

StilgarMD · Mar 11, 2012

delirium81 said:
To be honest I think it's six of one half a dozen of another. Neither decision will make or break your application, so do whatever it is you think that you'd enjoy the most.

yea you're right. im putting too much thought into this when i should be focusing on more pressing matters. hell, i probably won't even get into the summer programs. thanks for all the help.

need help with future planning

StilgarMD

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