A new medical school vs. An established one.

Sorry, but I know what the first school is (I won't say it though) and I really liked it too. Do you have a good idea as to what you think you want to do. That may play into it if you are interested in more competitive specialties. I know school A has most, but not all of the most competitive residencies, which I liked, especially since I wouldn't mind being there for residency. Seems like you like it more too. The best reason I could think of to pick the second school would be you want to go into something more competitive that either school A doesn't have a home residency for there or you don't want to do your residency there.

FattySlug said:

I will list the pros and cons of each school in my case so you guys can give me some feedback. Sorry I don't feel comfortable naming the schools.

New School Pros: Small class size.
Area is suburb and near a big city. I really like the location.
New School Cons: Not well known to residency directors. They have great belief in their new curriculum and I am sold on their presentation but I don't know it will be effective.



Established School Pros: Better known. Top 40. I know this ranking doesn't mean anything but just to give some reference.
Near many big famous hospital.
Established School Cons: It's in a crowded area.
15k more expensive.

Personally I like the new school better but at the same time find it more reassuring to go with a program that has placed many students in top residency. I know where you end up largely depends on you but the training has got to play a role right? What if the new school hasn't really gotten it down yet and they is testing its curriculum on me? What do you think?

Click to expand...

Personally, I would go with the established one. Top 40 or not, an established school will have more networking and "ins" than the new school. Unless the established school is one that is known to have issues that might be off-putting to residency PD's, I would choose it over the new one as it would likely make matching where you want that much easier.

I don't think there will be problems with residency placement at the new school, assuming you're speaking about a particular new school, which I think you are . I wouldn't say that about new schools in general, but there is huge infrastructure in place.
Message me if you'd like to talk more about it.

The vagueness is vague in this one.

You don't want to be a guinea pig for a new school; esp on clinical rotations, save yourself the pain and go to the established school.

I was in essentially this same situation once, and opted for the established, more expensive school. The reason being that a brand new school causes some difficulty with obtaining federal loans, if you're the first class there is nobody ahead of you to help guide you along and give you tips and tricks, and going to an established school helps to avoid the stresses associated with wondering if provisional accreditation is going to be yoinked before you graduate.

Which wouldn't bone you since you'd just be shuffled off to another med school, but who needs the headache.

School A sounds a lot like Hofstra

School B sounds like NYU or BU

Go with School B

Why is small class size a good thing?

To me, it seems awful. I'd much rather be in a class with over 200 so everyone isn't all up in your business.

always go to the established school.

"new" schools dont have their clinicals fine-tuned, in fact many of them are total scams where their "clinical training" consists of nothing mroe than having you shadow a nurse practitioner at uncle joe's ****ty rural family medicine clinic.

Socrates25 said:

always go to the established school.

"new" schools dont have their clinicals fine-tuned, in fact many of them are total scams where their "clinical training" consists of nothing mroe than having you shadow a nurse practitioner at uncle joe's ****ty rural family medicine clinic.

Click to expand...

Eh....this might be true of the newer DO schools and some of the Carib schools but the LCME is really strict about providing preliminary/provisional accreditation and would never give a school that status if it didn't have solid clinical curriculum in place. Hofstra, for example is affiliated with the highly regarded North Shore-LIJ network and their students get a very hands-on and comprehensive clinical education.

flatearth22 said:

Eh....this might be true of the newer DO schools and some of the Carib schools but the LCME is really strict about providing preliminary/provisional accreditation and would never give a school that status if it didn't have solid clinical curriculum in place. Hofstra, for example is affiliated with the highly regarded North Shore-LIJ network and their students get a very hands-on and comprehensive clinical education.

Click to expand...

I've spoken to a current MS2 (then MS1) when I had to deal with the same decision as the OP, and he told me that at his brand new school, there were multiple last minute changes to the curriculum, and that it was being fine tuned on the spot. Just saying, there are things that are up in the air with being in a founding class.

OP, I dealt with the exact same situation last year between WSUSOM and OUWBSOM and ended up going to Wayne. If you're interested, I can share some PMs with you from students I discussed this with - seeing as they're PMs I don't think I should just post them.

Also, there are students who are in the founding class at OU on this forum, talk to them as they can tell you what their experience is like at a new school. I know the user amandaeleven is one of them (me and her actually were in the same situation and she went to OU) and she has a blog that may give you an idea of her experience: http://www.amandaxi.com/

Then there are two threads I made about this from last year:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=820411
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=820409

And finally I have a couple of PMs that may be informative if you need more info still that I can forward to you if you wish (one is from the student I talked about in the first paragraph, the other is another student who chose to go to OU and why they chose to give the new school a shot).

gmcguitar4 said:

definitely hofstra vs. nyu(bellevue, VA, langone)

Either way, B definitely sounds like the better choice.

Click to expand...

If B were NYU i'd say B for sure. I'd guess BU though.

flatearth22 said:

Eh....this might be true of the newer DO schools and some of the Carib schools but the LCME is really strict about providing preliminary/provisional accreditation and would never give a school that status if it didn't have solid clinical curriculum in place. Hofstra, for example is affiliated with the highly regarded North Shore-LIJ network and their students get a very hands-on and comprehensive clinical education.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that's why I'd have far less of an issue with Hofstra than another random new school. The med schools is jointly owned and run by NSLIJ (not just affiliated with), so I'm not really concerned about clinicals being an issue there.

I guess we're talking abou Hofstra, then. I cant imagine students getting a more comprehensive experience in the first two years. Ive done CPR, scrubbed on almost a dozen cases, delivered a baby and counseled patients, among other things. I take histories and do physical exams weekly. Also, the newness and small class size mean that you're opinion about what works and what you want is a huge part of how the faculty delivers the curriculum and schedules things.
The school also avoids mind-numbing lecture(ers) and doesn't have them back if theyre not up to snuff.

FattySlug said:

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. I know I sound like an ungrateful bastard for doubting the new school but many of my friends, all MS, keep telling me how obvious a choice it is to go with the established school (B). Anyway, I am liking the new school a lot. I think I am going there.

Click to expand...

Seems like you were already set on your choice before you made this thread. Nothing wrong with that but definitely get some more input from people (especially physicians) about the pros and cons of each before you officially withdraw from one of the schools.

The main reason the overwhelming majority of people is telling you to pick the established school is because it's a well known commodity to residency program directors. They've either had students from those schools go through their programs or know by word-of-mouth from other residency programs that students from that school tend to perform well. It isn't just about the raw numbers when selecting residents because the clinical exposure and meaningful responsibility within the context of a medical team can vary greatly from school to school. Since you would only be part of the 2nd graduating class coming out of Hofstra, program directors wouldn't have enough time to assess Hofstra grads and how they perform during residency. So you could potentially be inadvertently closing some doors by picking the newer school.

Definitely talk to physicians (especially academic physicians who teach residents....program directors would be ideal if you can reach them) and see their take on it though.

mishaS said:

Also, there are students who are in the founding class at OU on this forum, talk to them as they can tell you what their experience is like at a new school. I know the user amandaeleven is one of them (me and her actually were in the same situation and she went to OU) and she has a blog that may give you an idea of her experience: http://www.amandaxi.com/

Click to expand...

mishaS: I can always count on you to link me -- haha.

On the subject of residencies: one of the reasons I was able to overlook the "new school" part for OUWB was the fact that I want to be a part of the Beaumont Health System and no other medical school has the opportunity to rotate throughout 3rd year at Beaumont. Furthermore, by being in a tiny class, we have the attention of *ALL* the faculty and staff. It's amazing.

There have been bumps, but the pros have far greatly outweighed the cons thus far.

FattySlug said:

Thanks a lot for the responses guys. I know I sound like an ungrateful bastard for doubting the new school but many of my friends, all MS, keep telling me how obvious a choice it is to go with the established school (B). Anyway, I am liking the new school a lot. I think I am going there.

Click to expand...

People can be genuinely excited about the new school all they want, but how much will those 4 years really matter if you are decreasing your chances of the residency you want? Something to think about....

Guys,

It's Hofstra vs. USC. Recent posts FTW.

tantacles said:

Guys,

It's Hofstra vs. USC. Recent posts FTW.

Click to expand...

Check again haha..its Hofstra vs. Tufts

NeuralNetwork said:

Check again haha..its Hofstra vs. Tufts

Click to expand...

Tufts isn't top 40. And yeah, just looked again. You're right. "heard nothing" from keck. Oops.

tantacles said:

Tufts isn't top 40.

Click to expand...

Its close enough, and he wasn't admitted to USC..I feel creepy for knowing this now. Sorry for creepin OP!

Go with the established one as it'll give you more opportunities for a better future.

Edit. There is a thread about Hofstra vs Mt. Sinai with 15k difference in tuition + top 40 school. Hofstra in suburb in NYC and Mt. Sinai in crowded area (Manhattan) Maybe these are the schools?

NeuralNetwork said:

Its close enough, and he wasn't admitted to USC..I feel creepy for knowing this now. Sorry for creepin OP!

Click to expand...

If someone isn't careful enough not to post in SSDs, I don't see why they'd try to keep their school choice "anonymous" in a thread like this. So I wouldn't feel too bad.

OP, go with your gut!

I went to an established school where I was the first class on a 'new' curriculum. Based on my experience there, I'd say absolutely go to the established school. It's painful to be the guinea pig for a new curriculum, and if you don't have the safety net of a large network of alumni or established tradition for residency, it can be very off-putting. And being the first medical students through a hospital system isn't necessarily a good thing either... the residents/attendings might not know what to do with you.

But, ultimately it's up to you, and depends on your personality. Just be ready to deal with a lot of tweaking throughout the years as the school tests various things on you if you choose the new school.

I also agree that you should go to an established school. You don't want to make things more difficult for yourself
when it comes time to match.

Holy FranZ said:

is small class size really a benefit?

Click to expand...

Absolutely not.

So, when considering attending a new school, how much better is it if the hospital relationship and clinical rotations are already established? (The new school I was accepted to is a branch school - the main campus has been sending third and fourth year students to the hospital it is located at for the past 20 years)

OP, I thought Hofstra was pretty interesting too.

thomallama said:

So, when considering attending a new school, how much better is it if the hospital relationship and clinical rotations are already established? (The new school I was accepted to is a branch school - the main campus has been sending third and fourth year students to the hospital it is located at for the past 20 years)

Click to expand...

I interviewed at Cooper as well, and it seemed like they knew what they were doing, but who knows?

tantacles said:

I interviewed at Cooper as well, and it seemed like they knew what they were doing, but who knows?

Click to expand...

Cooper's clinicals will be tip top, one of the biggest draws for that school, IMO.

mvenus929 said:

And being the first medical students through a hospital system isn't necessarily a good thing either... the residents/attendings might not know what to do with you.

But, ultimately it's up to you, and depends on your personality. Just be ready to deal with a lot of tweaking throughout the years as the school tests various things on you if you choose the new school.

Click to expand...

1. True at some schools the residents/attendings do not have experience running clerkships and working with medical students, but not all hospitals are like this. Beaumont has had a long history of teaching medical students.

2. You are completely on the mark about being up to the OP and their personality.