to those who could have gone MD but chose DO...

smc927 · Dec 15, 2003

The battle continues between which philosphy is best, but I don't want to do that here.
Obviously many choose to go DO because of a lower GPA, MCAT, whatever. DO is lesser known and therefore less competitive. I have no problem with that and greatly respect doctors, whatever letters follow the name.
My question is this:
To those of you who had the GPA and MCAT, etc, to be competitive enough to go MD, or perhaps were even accepted MD but chose DO - why? What, really, makes you feel that even though you really could have gone the more "well known" or "traditional" route, DO was the right choice for you?

cooldreams · Dec 15, 2003

consideration for what is really the best route for helping people, not just helping themselves.

think about it... which philosophy is most directed towards helping people... quite obviously DO...

which is more about science and test trials and such... MD...

so... choice becomes obvious once you get past the 'MD is better known and harder to get into so therefore it is the best' thinking, then you start to see things for what they really are.

OH58D · Dec 15, 2003

I had the option of DO or MD..... After the interviews were over, I picked the place that felt right for me. My flight surgeon in the military was a DO and a good friend of mine is also a DO. I agreed with their thoughts about osteopathy and respected their professional abilities. I'm a non-traditional.... being a little bit older and having the opportunity to do other things outside the walls of an acedemic institution makes it easy for me to say that the letters following my name don't matter as long as I'm doing what I want to do. I firmly believe both avenues have positive things to offer... so you have to pick what fits you best. I once read a post by a MD student that said something about the only reason she didn't go DO was because she didn't want to have to explain what a DO was to her friends/family. She knew that was shallow, but that was her feeling. I respect that... and there is nothing wrong with using that feeling in your decision making. Do your research and pick the school that fits you best.

bullhorn · Dec 16, 2003

I am just going to repost something i wrote earlier because I think it is relevant here...

Yeah my philosophy is definitely that YOU make the doctor you become not the letters behind your name. People have a LOT to learn in regards to osteopathic medicine, in that many will relegate it to just a lower tier of medical education. I say that's Bull$hit....EVERY (MD and DO) medical school in this country will give you a quality education to make you a competent physician if you compete the work...will some better prepare you for a life of academic medicine (without having attained a PhD)..yes...will some better prepare you to be a clinician (regardless of primary care or specialty) yes. Go to the school that makes you the happiest and falls in line with your true self. THAT school should be your first choice. If you aren't fortunate to get in...all is not lost because although the path might be slightly harder, you can do just about anything you put your mind to....ie an NIH research fellowship while in DO school or become a patient-oriented, OMT trained family practice physician from a MD school. Trust me, I know people personally who have done the above....

And that's how I chose to cancel all my remaining allopathic interviews once I visited UMDNJ-SOM and got accepted. It wasn't just about DO vs. MD...it was about "wow, I am getting teary-eyed during the tour...this is the place I am supposed to be". Period. If you know yourself, you'll know.

Amy B · Dec 16, 2003

I liked the DO school better than the MD school. I felt the students were friendlier and felt closer to each other and were more willing to help each other along. I hated going to school with gunners during undergrad. I hated the backstabbing and lies that came from the gunners who I helped and then were actually lied about things when I asked for their help.

I liked the philosophy at the DO school. I liked how the classes seemed geared towards a rural primary care practice and the schools commitment to work hard to bring the best education they can to their students.

The DO staff seemed more more helpful. I felt more at home. Being an older-nontrad it just seemed like the DO school was the place for me.

wamedic · Dec 16, 2003

I just wrote to a friend of mine about this, so I'll post what I wrote here:

"I have no problems with becoming a DO vs. MD. It is certainly a harder road to walk in some ways because residency placement in non-primary care is more competitive (with exception to emergency medicine where DOs have a strong presence) and the general public doesn't know what a DO is. The draw to osteopathic medicine for me isn't so much the manipulation
that they learn (although some techniques seem logical and could be incorporated into allopathic medicine just as easy), but their philosophy and emphasis on treating the whole person. I'm not trying to push osteopathic medicine, it's just that during the years that I was treated for cancer I found that some doctors could've cared less how the chemo or certain procedures would change the quality of my life. Only a few sat me down and said, you need such and such therapy or you'll die, do you understand this? Then go on to ask how they could help me integrate the therapy into my lifestyle so that I could still go backpacking
(some of the meds needed to be kept at a constant temp) and do the things that I enjoyed. Keep in mind that none of these doctors were DOs, but there were only a couple of them. Whether I go MD or DO I will try to practice in a similar way, but it seems to me that some osteopathic medical schools do
less to squeeze the humanity out of it's students and they come out of school with their thoughts about how patient care should be delivered more intact."

Also to the OP, osteopathic medical schools entering GPAs and MCAT scores match lower tier allopathic medical schools for accepted students. In addition, if you look at the stats carefully you'll see that it is actually more difficult to get accepted to osteopathic schools than allopathic (# students applied vs. # accepted). Whether this is because students with really low scores only apply to osteopathic school b/c of their reputation for "looking beyond the numbers" and then don't get in, remains to be seen.

Adapt · Dec 16, 2003

For me, it would come down to a question of location and comfort. Having been accepted to 2 decent MD schools, I didn't like the location or could see myself living there. I really just want to stay close to my home in southern CA where my support system is and don't care what medical school takes me MD or DO. Right now, it is a DO school, but if a UC takes me I would go there because of tuition reasons.

Having said that, I only see myself doing primary care. Of course I may change my mind, but at this point I don't think I will. Thus, I don't see myself "sacrificing my future" because a majority of DOs easily get residency spots in primary care fields. In my situation and opinion, the only benefit of an MD would be the name recognition and prestige that comes with it, which I don't think is worth it. Of course it would be nice but not to sacrifice 4 years of my life in a place I didn't like. So for me at least, it is not a question about philosophy or prestige, but where I would be the most comfortable..

NDESTRUKT · Dec 17, 2003

I agree with Slickness. I'd go DO or MD depending on which is closer to my girlfriend. I said no to University of Arizona, declined my interview at UCLA, and took an acceptance at CCOM. However, today I got an acceptance from Indiana University so I will be going there now...

Adapt · Dec 17, 2003

Congrats on your Indiana acceptance, NDESTRUKT.

I know that was your top choice. Good luck to you.🙂

WillowRose · Dec 18, 2003

I have applied to both MD & DO schools. Let's assume for the sake of argument that I am "competitive" at both. (If I were 10 years younger, I probably would be).

I think who you are as a person determines what kind of doctor you will be. I don't think all MD's or allopathic schools are solely interested in research, nor do I think all DO's are saints. However, I believe that my own personality/beliefs/ideas about medicine would be enhanced by an osteopathic education. That said, I think I'd be a damn good MD if that's the choice I have to make--and I don't think it would be significantly different from the type of doctor I would be if I was trained as a DO.

Willow (still wondering why the hell I've heard *nothing* from IU about whether I've even gone in front of the adcom--bleh!)

DireWolf · Dec 18, 2003

I made my decision based on the particular schools I got accepted to. I felt that OSU-COM was simply better than the allopathic programs I got accepted to. My top two choices were allopathic programs, but I got waitlisted at both of them.

San_Juan_Sun · Dec 18, 2003

It was all about location for me. My top 5 were based on how close to home the schools were. I had three MD, two DO, and ende up at the DO. I've been very happy with my choice, although I think DO/MD philosophy thing doesn't change anatomy and biochemistry one bit. Good luck.

BiochemMan · Dec 19, 2003

I agree with the other posts. Go where you feel happiest and most accepted at. If you have interviewed at allopathic and osteopathic schools, you more than likely will see and feel a difference.

BiochemMan · Dec 19, 2003

I agree with the other posts. Go where you feel happiest and most accepted at. If you have interviewed at allopathic and osteopathic schools, you more than likely will see and feel a difference.

BayesianDoc · Dec 19, 2003

For me I found M.D. schools to be too inexpensive and I was really interested in spending the most money possible for a medical education.

raptor5
PCOM class of 2008 $31,101 a year

futuredo32 · Dec 19, 2003

Thought I'd add my opinion to all the others.
I had a high gpa and competitive MCAT scores, but chose only to apply to D.O. schools because I honestly believe in the D.O. philosophy and OMM is a great tool D.O.'s can use. To me, when OMM can be used in place of drugs, is such a beneficial option considering the cost of prescriptions, side effects, etc.

NDESTRUKT · Dec 19, 2003

i like the DO philosophy too, I wanna learn OMM probably later on as an elective...the major thing besides being close to my gf is...I pay half what I would have paid at a DO school, so the bill kind of dictated my decision.

ChiaPet312 · Dec 26, 2003

i'm not writing this post to offend anyone....DO/MD alike. Just wanted to know what you all think.

it's already been stated in millions of other posts that the requirements for DO schools (mcat/gpa) are lower than medical school requirements. this difference is why MD students (and others) prolly 'look down' at the DO route.

do you guys think that if DO schools raised the bars for entering students (higher mcat/gpa) ppl would respect the DO's more? Why don't DO schools do this? I know, for example, in jersey -- UMDNJ's osteopathic med school states on its secondary application that your MCAT score must be around the national average. The school admits 80 students (maybe 75...don't quite remember), and it's difficult to get an interview there. Perhaps if more DO schools raised mcat/gpa cut offs, MD studetns would look at DO students the same way.

i know some will answer 'DO schools look beyond numbers, etc'. in all honesty, numbers should definetly be considered as a measurement for potential success. numbers indicate study habits, drive, and focus. granted, they aren't the only factors that will predict who will be an excellent physician, but they def play a significant role.

moo · Dec 26, 2003

Originally posted by ChiaPet312
i'm not writing this post to offend anyone....DO/MD alike. Just wanted to know what you all think.

it's already been stated in millions of other posts that the requirements for DO schools (mcat/gpa) are lower than medical school requirements. this difference is why MD students (and others) prolly 'look down' at the DO route.

do you guys think that if DO schools raised the bars for entering students (higher mcat/gpa) ppl would respect the DO's more? Why don't DO schools do this? I know, for example, in jersey -- UMDNJ's osteopathic med school states on its secondary application that your MCAT score must be around the national average. The school admits 80 students (maybe 75...don't quite remember), and it's difficult to get an interview there. Perhaps if more DO schools raised mcat/gpa cut offs, MD studetns would look at DO students the same way.

i know some will answer 'DO schools look beyond numbers, etc'. in all honesty, numbers should definetly be considered as a measurement for potential success. numbers indicate study habits, drive, and focus. granted, they aren't the only factors that will predict who will be an excellent physician, but they def play a significant role.

I am not a DO student, but an MD student. People in my class are just as "well-rounded" and non-traditional as people in DO school. We have a 45 year old in our class, and also many in their thirties and late twenties who've had plenty of "life experiences" (5 marathon runners, people who've done not just your standard volunteering but been to Africa, etc.) Needless to say they also have a decent GPA/MCAT. I've said this before, but I get annoyed when DOs think they have a monopoly on compassion. I say this again: I am not against DOs... I think they do a wonderful job and we've had DOs teach us physical exam, and even some lectures in our science lectures, so I don't doubt their ability. But everytime a DO student spews the standard AOA crap, it's just as annoying as having MD students say DO students are stupid. Also saying stuff like "We learn everything an MD learns and more" is just akin to saying that we are not as educated as you are and shows a lot of insecurity and immaturity. As someone pointed out in another post, our educations ARE different but that doesn't make DOs more "educated." Are DOs more educated than JDs? Sure, in the field of medicine, but unless the DO also has a JD, it's unlikely the DO would be more "educated" in the field of law.

drhodz · Dec 26, 2003

I agree with biochemman....Go where you feel comfortable, whether it is a D.O. or M.D. school. There IS a distinct feeling between the two schools that I felt while interviewing. Most likely I will be choosing a D.O. school even though the MD school in my state (NV) has extremely low tuition. I just felt the "click" while I was at KCOM. As future physicians, we should learn to trust our inner instinct.

drlexygoat · Dec 26, 2003

Originally posted by cooldreams

think about it... which philosophy is most directed towards helping people... quite obviously DO...

which is more about science and test trials and such... MD...

cooldreams, I think you're a little off the mark here. Let me preface what I'm going to say with the fact that I've been accepted (and plan on attending) NSU-COM (nova) next Fall....

Ahem... I think that it's unfair to say that DOs want to help people more. Both factions of medicine are ultimately dedicated to helping their patients. Even the researcher has that ultimate goal in mind. The MD=research and DO=clinical practice may seem a little more commonplace, but is by no means the rule I think. You will meet DOs who care little for clinical work and love research, albeit this is a newer trend. You'll also meet MDs who could care less about research medicine and delve straight into their practices.

Just keep your mind open to the idea that MDs and DOs really sholdn't be stereotyped and typified, because there are always a truckload of exceptions out there. Both factions have the same goal in mind. The only difference, in my mind, is a slightly different approach in how the information is taught. All in all, we will get the same education. IT's what you do with it afterwards that determines who will "care more for helping people."

Just my thoughts...

San_Juan_Sun · Dec 26, 2003

Originally posted by ChiaPet312

do you guys think that if DO schools raised the bars for entering students (higher mcat/gpa) ppl would respect the DO's more? Why don't DO schools do this? I know, for example, in jersey -- UMDNJ's osteopathic med school states on its secondary application that your MCAT score must be around the national average. The school admits 80 students (maybe 75...don't quite remember), and it's difficult to get an interview there. Perhaps if more DO schools raised mcat/gpa cut offs, MD studetns would look at DO students the same way.

i know some will answer 'DO schools look beyond numbers, etc'. in all honesty, numbers should definetly be considered as a measurement for potential success. numbers indicate study habits, drive, and focus. granted, they aren't the only factors that will predict who will be an excellent physician, but they def play a significant role.

A couple of comments: "raising the bar" for DO schools is easier said than done. There are a finite supply of 30+ MCAT people out there, and until DO schools attract more of those folks, average DO MCAT scores will remain in the low to mid 20s. (Of course, several MD schools are in this area too.)

You cited the example of UMDNJ. The national average is only 24 for all test takers (27 for matriculants). The reason it's so tough to get an interview there is more likely because of the limited number of seats, and less likely due to stringent MCAT requirements.

As far as "looking past the numbers goes", this is stuff that pre-DOs tell each other to make us feel warm and fuzzy. Admissions committees place a great deal of emphasis on scores/GPAs, as they are the only relatively equal ways to measure applicants. The formula for each school differs, and so certain schools may place more emphasis on ECs. But without question, grades and MCAT scores matter a great deal more than people on SDN try to convince each other of.

Tap0utt · Dec 26, 2003

i agree with practically everything you said...

Originally posted by San_Juan_Sun
A couple of comments: "raising the bar" for DO schools is easier said than done. There are a finite supply of 30+ MCAT people out there, and until DO schools attract more of those folks, average DO MCAT scores will remain in the low to mid 20s. (Of course, several MD schools are in this area too.)

You cited the example of UMDNJ. The national average is only 24 for all test takers (27 for matriculants). The reason it's so tough to get an interview there is more likely because of the limited number of seats, and less likely due to stringent MCAT requirements.

As far as "looking past the numbers goes", this is stuff that pre-DOs tell each other to make us feel warm and fuzzy. Admissions committees place a great deal of emphasis on scores/GPAs, as they are the only relatively equal ways to measure applicants. The formula for each school differs, and so certain schools may place more emphasis on ECs. But without question, grades and MCAT scores matter a great deal more than people on SDN try to convince each other of.

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to those who could have gone MD but chose DO...

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