NHS hospital apologise to 38 families after patients starve to death on the ward

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futurepremed

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The price of socialized medicine. No personal liability, no consumer choice all paid and funded at tax payer expense The future looks dim. 🙁

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-care-that-saw-a-patient-starve-to-death.html

alexandra-hospital_2435462b.jpg


Alexandra Hospital in Redditch is writing to 38 families after a massive legal action that exposed years of bad practice, ranging from nurses taunting patients to leaving an elderly woman unwashed for 11 weeks.

In one of the worst cases, a man had starvation recorded as the cause of his death after being treated at the hospital for two months.

Jeremy Hunt, the Health Secretary, said last night that he was “disgusted and appalled” by what the families had been through, and that the Government was acting to ensure that failings in care were detected more quickly.

Bereaved relatives had told how vulnerable patients were left to starve when trays were placed out of their reach, while others were left in soaking bedsheets.

Many of the families are to receive compensation for cases that their lawyer described as “appalling”.
Click to expand...


👎 Over 1300 Comments-- Section 👎

Commentor:

America, see your future. As Obamacare is implemented and the government assumes control of our healthcare system, this is what awaits you. In a free market economy, if a hospital treats patients like this, you have the choice to go somewhere else, but when the govt. runs everything, you're stuck. Also, in a free market, employees would be disciplined and then fired long before it got this bad, but in a govt. run system, employees rights supersede patients' care. I see posts here blaming the mgrs, and they must be held accountable, but with the power of the govt. employee unions supporting these "caregivers" the managers are quite limited in their ability to fire them. If you voted for the people responsible for implementing Obamacare over the wishes of 72% of the population, I hope you remember your folly when this starts to happen to people you love.
Click to expand...

:luck: Important Reads: :luck:

What things, specifically, make health care so expensive in the US?

Real Affordable Healthcare: Remove 'Government' Regulation

[UK] Cradle to (an early) Grave - NHS hospital apologises to 38 families after patients starve to death on the ward
 
There is no liability in the public sector. Just throw compensation money at it. The individuals responsible are looked after and continue to be abusive and bad at their jobs to this day.

When there is no liability there is no incentive to operate a good service. It is not their money that they will have to pay out of compensation. It is the tax payers, so why should they care if they have to compensate customers due to negligence.
 
wtf...
 
The government takeover of anything makes the service worse. Remember when farming was taken over by the government in the USSR? Mass starvation.
 
Inhumanity at it's utmost finest...this was absolutely discussing to read...
 
Oh noes! YAWN....
 
So, let me try to wrap my brain around this. A law that expands medicaid (which was already in place) and creates a public marketplace for the sale of private insurance policies will have the effect of nationalizing all hospital administration...
 
ComradeDoktor said:
So, let me try to wrap my brain around this. A law that expands medicaid (which was already in place) and creates a public marketplace for the sale of private insurance policies will have the effect of nationalizing all hospital administration...
Click to expand...

I had a relative in Canada that tells me patients dying waiting in the ER is common in Canada.
 
Oh good lord...yeah fellas this can definitely only happen when socialized medicine takes over.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-304038.html

"A congressional report has found that 5,283 — over 30 percent — of the nursing homes in the U.S. were cited for an abuse violation that had to cause harm between January 1999 and January 2001. Over 2,500 of the violations were serious enough to cause actual harm or to place residents in immediate jeopardy of death or serious injury."
 
Oh look, another pre-med terrified of socialized healthcare and using a story which pretends that horrendously substandard care doesn't take place in the United States, where we have worse healthcare outcomes than in the United Kingdom.

popcorn.gif
 
There's a lot of misinformation going on here.
 
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You do realize that private insurance and private hospitals aren't illegal in the UK, right?
 
futurepremed said:
The price of socialized medicine. No personal liability, no consumer choice all paid and funded at tax payer expense The future looks dim. 🙁

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...-care-that-saw-a-patient-starve-to-death.html

alexandra-hospital_2435462b.jpg





👎 Over 1300 Comments-- Section 👎



:luck: Important Reads: :luck:

What things, specifically, make health care so expensive in the US?

Real Affordable Healthcare: Remove 'Government' Regulation

[UK] Cradle to (an early) Grave - NHS hospital apologises to 38 families after patients starve to death on the ward
Click to expand...

Yep, the example of one hospital clearly condemns the entire concept of government-run healthcare. I had forgotten the vital importance of one-element sample sizes!
 
22% of all community hospitals are already publicly funded. http://www.hcup-us.ahrq.gov/reports/statbriefs/sb95.pdf I'm guessing the majority of reimbursements at these community hospitals come from government health care (Medicare, Medicaid.) The hospital I shadowed and volunteered at received something like 70% of their reimbursements from these programs. So much for "the sky is falling."
 
Every US citizen over the age of 65 already enjoys socialized medicine, it's called Medicare.

Free ER, free primary care, free rides in the ambulance, free surgery, free electric wheelchairs, anything you need once you hit 65. They can pop into your office on a whim, which is great, early detection is key.

But after you watch patient after patient delay treatment because they cannot afford it because they are under 65, you will start to wonder how bad this socialized medicine thing actually is.
 
Paramedoc said:
Every US citizen over the age of 65 already enjoys socialized medicine, it's called Medicare.
Click to expand...

Medicare is socialized insurance, not socialized medicine.

Paramedoc said:
Free ER, free primary care, free rides in the ambulance, free surgery, free electric wheelchairs, anything you need once you hit 65. They can pop into your office on a whim, which is great, early detection is key.
Click to expand...

I would invite you to examine the current costs for Medicare recipients and then reevaluate your assertion.
 
SDN, you seriously need to read more about the ACA. I recommend TR Teid's The Healing of America, which won a Pulitzer Prize. A very easy to read comparative analysis of healthcare systems around the world.


The NHS has its faults but they are nowhere near the ****hole that exists in the US.
 
And seriously, who the hell cares if medicine is socialized or privatized. We need to use what is best for the health of our country. Look at Japan, France, Germany. They use private systems that provide healthcare for all their citizens!! Educate yourself before you come off as a total idiot on healthcare policy by posting bull**** on these forums.
 
This is a quality issue, not a payment structure issue. The US has private payment structures (as opposed to the NHS) and still has tons of quality issues - have you seen how many people die from preventable medical errors every year? The assumption that privatization = magic guarantee of accountability is not a very good one.
 
If my memory serves me correctly op started a thread earlier this year citing articles from the anarcho syndicalist sub reddit.
Its_Always_Sunny_Frank_Troll_Toll.jpg
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Oh good lord...yeah fellas this can definitely only happen when socialized medicine takes over.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-304038.html

"A congressional report has found that 5,283 — over 30 percent — of the nursing homes in the U.S. were cited for an abuse violation that had to cause harm between January 1999 and January 2001. Over 2,500 of the violations were serious enough to cause actual harm or to place residents in immediate jeopardy of death or serious injury."
Click to expand...

CrimsonKing said:
Oh look, another pre-med terrified of socialized healthcare and using a story which pretends that horrendously substandard care doesn't take place in the United States, where we have worse healthcare outcomes than in the United Kingdom.

popcorn.gif
Click to expand...

circulus vitios said:
You do realize that private insurance and private hospitals aren't illegal in the UK, right?
Click to expand...

Pattycake25 said:
Yep, the example of one hospital clearly condemns the entire concept of government-run healthcare. I had forgotten the vital importance of one-element sample sizes!
Click to expand...

👍👍
That is all.
 
This is really tragic and regrettable, but what about the people who die because they have no access to adequate healthcare in the current system, where's their front page article?
 
minwoo123 said:
And seriously, who the hell cares if medicine is socialized or privatized. We need to use what is best for the health of our country. Look at Japan, France, Germany. They use private systems that provide healthcare for all their citizens!! Educate yourself before you come off as a total idiot on healthcare policy by posting bull**** on these forums.
Click to expand...

In Ontario, the province government ran "attack" ads against doctors to force them to sign a new payment contract that paid them less. Think twice about having to work for the government, and being pushed around like a servant.

A better solution would be to have a 2 tiered system in which the VA program is expanded to include the entire populace and would provide a basic standard of care, and private insurance/self-pay would cover the rest - this is essentially the arrangement in many countries across the world.

EDIT: Just remembered that 1/2 the hospitals in Japan are bankrupt, and the other 1/2 are heading in that direction. And that the UK government screwed over their doctors' pension plans, while getting away with questionable pension benefits for their other civil servants... Hence the massive doctors strike the UK
 
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ElCapone said:
EDIT: Just remembered that 1/2 the hospitals in Japan are bankrupt, and the other 1/2 are heading in that direction.
Click to expand...

Japan spends 8.1% of its GDP on health care. We spend 16% of ours. Go figure.

ElCapone said:
And that the UK government screwed over their doctors' pension plans, while getting away with questionable pension benefits for their other civil servants... Hence the massive doctors strike the UK
Click to expand...

In Britain a "massive doctors strike" consists of a 24 hour slow-down by ~10% of the physician workforce. Over their pensions getting cut to a meager $105,000 per year if they work to age 68. Many of the UK's current economic problems are being exacerbated by the austerity measures that are en vogue with a certain (so-called) conservative political movement in this country.
 
I love how people are trying to figure out how our government can spend even more money....

Like we don't need to cut our budget by $1 Trillion a year just to balance it.
 
Canadian premed here.

http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/february/10_myths_about_canad.php

Since this is my first post, I'm probably going to get flamed for this, but there are many myths out there that I see perpetuated on these forums all the time.

Not at all claiming the Canadian system has all the answers, not at all, but it's certainly not as bad as some people make it out to be!
 
Gut Shot said:
That's easy. Just put Republicans back in control of Congress and the White House.
Click to expand...

Yeah, because democrats in general have done such a marvelous job reducing excess spending.

🙄
 
Spinach Dip said:
Yeah, because democrats in general have done such a marvelous job reducing excess spending.

🙄
Click to expand...

Yeah, but republicans engage in magical thinking when it comes to the arithmetic... Remember what was the proposed budget plan by Romney??
It never added it up.
 
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futurepremed said:
The government takeover of anything makes the service worse. Remember when farming was taken over by the government in the USSR? Mass starvation.
Click to expand...

Actually the Holodrome was less an example of socialization leading to faulty planning and mass starvation and rather Stalin's paranoia, especially given that in the 60s+ the USSR was feeding more people than the US. But to follow suit... Remember when the government took over the steel plants, manufacturing market? They made more steel and goods than the USA for the next 50 years.

Not that I wanted to really derail the thread. I just enjoy commenting and talking history.
 
Spinach Dip said:
I love how people are trying to figure out how our government can spend even more money....

Like we don't need to cut our budget by $1 Trillion a year just to balance it.
Click to expand...

I don't think you understand the monetary implications of austerity for the future of our nation and global market. Just look at Europe, you cut spending to almost nothing and everyone suffers and the market goes into full depression. Take example of every single recession and depression in the market since the 19th century, the only option is to maintain spending until the market can breath and balance itself.
 
Anyways, the same abuse happens in US nursing homes. They might not get to the point of starving, but taunting, insults, borderline neglect, forcefulness ( Especially with demented patients), it all happens.
 
calvnandhobbs68 said:
Oh did you mean the United States?

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/story?id=5884487&page=1
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/1920705...oman-dies-er-lobby-refuses-help/#.UO4vnW8818E
http://articles.chicagotribune.com/...0317_1_emergency-room-triage-nurse-vista-east
Click to expand...

There are usually two sided to a story and a panicked and hysterical 911 call from someone who doesn't understand healthcare or medicine may not be reliable....


I don't know what happened either way, but I have a hard time believing an entire ED staff just sat by.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using SDN Mobile
 
serenade said:
Actually the Holodrome was less an example of socialization leading to faulty planning and mass starvation and rather Stalin's paranoia, especially given that in the 60s+ the USSR was feeding more people than the US. But to follow suit... Remember when the government took over the steel plants, manufacturing market? They made more steel and goods than the USA for the next 50 years.

Not that I wanted to really derail the thread. I just enjoy commenting and talking history.
Click to expand...

True. History is always manipulated to serve the purpose of those in power.
 
serenade said:
Actually the Holodrome was less an example of socialization leading to faulty planning and mass starvation and rather Stalin's paranoia, especially given that in the 60s+ the USSR was feeding more people than the US. But to follow suit... Remember when the government took over the steel plants, manufacturing market? They made more steel and goods than the USA for the next 50 years.

Not that I wanted to really derail the thread. I just enjoy commenting and talking history.
Click to expand...

I figured he was talking about the early 1930s starvation. The five year plan under the time succeeded in massively increasing overall grain production. The starvation was a result of disobedience -- farmers hiding grain to create an unneeded local surplus, thus creating a national deficit.
 
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