Going to a Top Ranked Med School from a Public University

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BlueDemForever

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Hello everyone! First of all, I am new to this website, and this is my first post. Please excuse me if my thread is in the wrong location. Also, I will state that I am South Asian American because I am not sure if ethnicity is a factor in med school admissions like it is in college admissions. Okay, so I will be starting college next year and am probably going to end up going to Indiana University Bloomington for my undergraduate studies next year. I am interested in majoring in physics and biology, will take the toughest classes offered (organic chemistry, biochemistry, molecular biology, quantum physics, mathematical analysis) and hope to maintain a 3.9+ GPA. In college, I will probably participate in various activities such as debate, student newspaper, math/science club, culture clubs, volunteering at hospital and in impoverished countries, research in both biology and physics, etc. in which I hope to pursue leadership positions and achieve recognition. I am interested in getting a PhD in physics after college which will take around 5 years. I would like to know first of all what my chances would be of getting into one of the top 3 med schools (Harvard, JHU, and UPenn) if I applied to med school at the age of 21 as a top student from Indiana University with a 3.9+ GPA, 40+ MCAT (55+ New MCAT), with a lot of research experience, lots of volunteering, a variety of extracurricular activities, awards in science as well as in other clubs, excellent letters of recommendation, and genuine and good essays? Then, would I increase my chances of getting into one of the three medical schools that I mentioned, if I had the same undergraduate credentials, pursued a PhD in physics after college from a prestigious program, re-took the MCAT in my last year of grad school, and still volunteered throughout grad school? I would really appreciate any input.
 
It happens. I went to a low ranked, low prestige undergrad, received an awesome education, and am a student at a top 10 school (for both research and primary care). Make sure to broaden your lists if you are interested in more than just research, as the three you listed are the top 3 in research, but not for primary care (clinical education).
 
Thanks CrimsonKing. Anyone else? I would like to here more about the pros and cons in terms of admission chances to the three schools I mentioned of applying in your senior year of college vs applying after getting a PhD in Physics?
 
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BlueDemForever said:
Thanks CrimsonKing. Anyone else? I would like to here more about the pros and cons in terms of admission chances to the three schools I mentioned of applying in your senior year of college vs applying after getting a PhD in Physics?
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Here are some quick and honest tips for you:

* Chill out
* Chill out some more
* Don't get a PhD in physics before applying
* Your university, for the most part, does not matter. You're fine.
* You can't assume anything you said. Getting a 3.9+ is difficult. Very difficult. I've gotten two B's in my life (during freshman), and I will only be able to get to a 3.88 by the time I apply.
* Same for MCAT. 40 is incredibly rare.
* Good luck fitting all those ECs into your life

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that you aren't even in college yet. You need to CHILL OUT. It's good to have goals, it really is. But nothing in your post gives me any certainty on why you want to attend a top school, outside of prestige. Roll with the flow, dude, it's a lot easier than planning out every single EC, which is a recipe for disaster.

To better answer your question, if you want to get in to one of the three schools you listed, aim for this - maintain a 3.85+ GPA, aim for a 37+ on the MCAT (both these values are the medians for those three schools), participate in long-term, meaningful research with tangible results, plenty of clinical exposure via volunteering and shadowing, and have some other various ECs that make you unique. That being said, having all of this guarantees nothing, not even a top 20 acceptance. It's a good place to start though.
 
I think you have great ambitions, and you should stick to them. The more ambitious you stay, the better you will do as an undergrad. If you truly want to be a physician, you don't need to do a PhD in physics. Just do awesome as an undergrad, follow through with these plans of yours, and you will have no problem getting into a medical school. Where you attend doesn't make that much of a difference because not all doctors graduated from an ivy league. Wish you the best, and don't give up!
 
I agree I should probably chill out but I really want to be a great doctor. I've got tons of role models who are excellent physicians including my dad (a guy who came from a very poor background but was smart enough to get into the top med school of his country and do training from the USA), Ben Carson (the awesome neurosurgeon), and a few fictional characters like House from the show House MD and Jack Shepard from the show Lost. The thing is that I truly care about people and have a great desire to pursue science as an avenue to help them. I know that going to a med school ranked in the top 3 in the USNWR sounds like I'm doing it for the name, but all three of those places have the best academic programs, good clinical training, and research opportunities far beyond those offered at other places. And hey, if I want a little name, so what? 🙂 Regarding the PhD in physics, I only want to do it b/c physics is one of my great passions. Would doing it after college help me seem like a more mature applicant with an extremely rare scientific background or would it make it seem like a guy who is just trying to get money by becoming a doctor and has a weak biological background? Similarly, would applying as an extremely academically qualified 21 year-old college senior from Indiana University, make me seem like a bright young mind or unqualified because of my institution, age, or a lack of scientific intellect, a true reason for being a doctor, or maturity?
 
BlueDemForever said:
I agree I should probably chill out but I really want to be a great doctor. I've got tons of role models who are excellent physicians including my dad (a guy who came from a very poor background but was smart enough to get into the top med school of his country and do training from the USA), Ben Carson (the awesome neurosurgeon), and a (1) few fictional characters like House from the show House MD and Jack Shepard from the show Lost. The thing is that I truly care about people and have a great desire to pursue science as an avenue to help them. I know that going to a med school ranked in the top 3 in the USNWR sounds like I'm doing it for the name, but all three of those places have the best academic programs, good clinical training, and (2) research opportunities far beyond those offered at other places. And hey, if I want a little name, so what? 🙂 Regarding the PhD in physics, I only want to do it b/c physics is one of my great passions. (3) Would doing it after college help me seem like a more mature applicant with an extremely rare scientific background or would it make it seem like a guy who is just trying to get money by becoming a doctor and has a weak biological background? Similarly, would applying as an extremely academically qualified 21 year-old college senior from Indiana University, make me (4) seem like a bright young mind or unqualified because of my institution, age, or a lack of scientific intellect, a true reason for being a doctor, or maturity?
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1) I probably wouldn't mention either of those around here anymore if I were you. Just trust me.

2) Tons of research opportunities at many medical schools. Top three aren't "far above" all other schools. Where did you get this "top three" distinction from anyway? Top-20 or maybe top-10 is a far better way to classify schools, and that is if and only if you are interested in academic medicine.

3) Neither. Don't get a PhD in physics unless you plan using it. Wasting 4-5 years on that, even if you like the subject, is a terrible idea if you aren't going to use it. Period.

4) For the second time, don't worry about Indiana. It's fine. It will be negligible in terms of your chances of acceptance at any school. As for your age, that's the "traditional" route (applying after junior year). You'll be just like everyone else. Scientific intellect - shown through research and LORs, primarily. True reason for being a doctor - tbh yours is super cliche, and I'm not totally buying it yet, but that's fine. You still have 3.5 years of experiences to still undergo before you need a well-written explanation for "Why Medicine?"

Sorry if I sound harsh at all, just trying to help you. My advice - get as good of grades as possible. Quality over quantity for ECs. Figure out whether or not you like biomedical research. If you do, and you can see yourself in academic medicine someday, then aim for top 20 schools, not this "top 3" mentality you have.

Again, I'm trying to spare you from harsh words around these forums. You'll get torn apart in pre-allo if you go mentioning how all your activities and goals center around getting into a "top 3" school.
 
BlueDemForever said:
I agree I should probably chill out but I really want to be a great doctor. I've got tons of role models who are excellent physicians including my dad (a guy who came from a very poor background but was smart enough to get into the top med school of his country and do training from the USA), Ben Carson (the awesome neurosurgeon), and a few fictional characters like House from the show House MD and Jack Shepard from the show Lost. The thing is that I truly care about people and have a great desire to pursue science as an avenue to help them. I know that going to a med school ranked in the top 3 in the USNWR sounds like I'm doing it for the name, but all three of those places have the best academic programs, good clinical training, and research opportunities far beyond those offered at other places. And hey, if I want a little name, so what? 🙂 Regarding the PhD in physics, I only want to do it b/c physics is one of my great passions. Would doing it after college help me seem like a more mature applicant with an extremely rare scientific background or would it make it seem like a guy who is just trying to get money by becoming a doctor and has a weak biological background? Similarly, would applying as an extremely academically qualified 21 year-old college senior from Indiana University, make me seem like a bright young mind or unqualified because of my institution, age, or a lack of scientific intellect, a true reason for being a doctor, or maturity?
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Actually, within the top 20 having the *best* academic program will vary by field and by school as well as personal preference. Definitely don't just assume that the top 3 will be terrific in whatever you find interesting and have the type of curriculum you want, look into what the specific programs your interested in are like both in curriculum and in the fields you are considering.

As far as what medical schools will think of you when you are 21, no one can answer this right now because you haven't completed all of the activities you listed or received those scores. Also, your interests may completely change between now and then, so bear that in mind.

For frame of reference, I believe a 38+ is in the 99th percentile of the MCAT, 40+ is not a joke and requires a combination of extreme dedication, lots of practice, and a little luck even if you are averaging those scores on practice tests.

I agree with the above poster, just relax and enjoy your first year of college, pursuing the activities that interest you and not what you think medical schools will want. If medical schools realize you had no real interest in the activities you were doing in interviews you definitely will not be admitted.

Undergrad can be one of the most memorable experiences of your life, try to simply follow your interests, and if they remain medical check the boxes of shadowing, volunteering, some research, and getting the scores.
 
To Bauman1535: 1) Why do people on here not like House or Jack Shepard? 2) Alright, I agree that the programs for the "top 10" are probably equivalent in academic medicine but I've put Harvard, JHU, and UPenn as the the three schools of which I'd like to get into at least one. 3) I plan on pursing research in physics on the side of an academic medical career. Would it actually hurt my application if I applied as a 26 year old with a physics PhD? 4) Regarding my reason for wanting to become a doctor, I'm not too sure what isn't cliche. Wanting to cure cancer, being inspired by a family or personal illness, helping people, or personal glory all seem as cliche as having a combined interest of helping people combined with wanting to pursue high level research.
 
Hasn't started college. Will maintain 3.9+ and get a 40+ while winning many research awards and pursuing numerous fascinating extracurricular activities. Will only settle for a top 3 school.

Priceless.
 
I'll agree with what other people have said that you need to relax, you haven't even started college yet! But if you do all of the things that you have so plotted out for yourself (which will be incredibly difficult) you will be in a good place to get into one of the programs you listed (or anywhere else)... Keep in mind that when you're aiming for such a small, competitive set of programs you're probably going to be disappointed. Bottom line your undergrad won't hold you back if you perform that well, but you can't go in without having taken any classes or having done any ECs/research/studying and expect to do what you have described.

A PhD in Physics doesn't take 5 years... It only does if you're a rockstar. I know plenty of physics doctoral candidates in their 7th year or more, just FYI.
 
BlueDemForever said:
To Bauman1535: 1) Why do people on here not like House or Jack Shepard? 2) Alright, I agree that the programs for the "top 10" are probably equivalent in academic medicine but I've put Harvard, JHU, and UPenn as the the three schools of which I'd like to get into at least one. 3) I plan on pursing research in physics on the side of an academic medical career. Would it actually hurt my application if I applied as a 26 year old with a physics PhD? 4) Regarding my reason for wanting to become a doctor, I'm not too sure what isn't cliche. Wanting to cure cancer, being inspired by a family or personal illness, helping people, or personal glory all seem as cliche as having a combined interest of helping people combined with wanting to pursue high level research.
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If you're so gung-ho on a PhD, why not just aim for an MD/PhD program? Why do you need to specifically do research in physics?

The bigger question: Why the heck are you thinking about this as a high school student? You're ~18 years old - live your life!
Get over the whole "top" complex too.
 
Why does the OP want to go to a top medical school?

50K a year just for a medical degree from Harvard.... Hmm

This seems shady 😎
 
BlueDemForever said:
Hello everyone! First of all, I am new to this website, and this is my first post. Please excuse me if my thread is in the wrong location. Also, I will state that I am South Asian American because I am not sure if ethnicity is a factor in med school admissions like it is in college admissions. Okay, so I will be starting college next year and am probably going to end up going to Indiana University Bloomington for my undergraduate studies next year. I am interested in majoring in physics and biology, will take the toughest classes offered (organic chemistry, biochemistry, molecular biology, quantum physics, mathematical analysis) and hope to maintain a 3.9+ GPA. In college, I will probably participate in various activities such as debate, student newspaper, math/science club, culture clubs, volunteering at hospital and in impoverished countries, research in both biology and physics, etc. in which I hope to pursue leadership positions and achieve recognition. I am interested in getting a PhD in physics after college which will take around 5 years. I would like to know first of all what my chances would be of getting into one of the top 3 med schools (Harvard, JHU, and UPenn) if I applied to med school at the age of 21 as a top student from Indiana University with a 3.9+ GPA, 40+ MCAT (55+ New MCAT), with a lot of research experience, lots of volunteering, a variety of extracurricular activities, awards in science as well as in other clubs, excellent letters of recommendation, and genuine and good essays? Then, would I increase my chances of getting into one of the three medical schools that I mentioned, if I had the same undergraduate credentials, pursued a PhD in physics after college from a prestigious program, re-took the MCAT in my last year of grad school, and still volunteered throughout grad school? I would really appreciate any input.
Click to expand...

From research on MBA schools, where adcoms are a lot more open about what it takes to get in, most schools really do adjust for GPA at different unis. So if your uni has a reputation for high GPAs you need to really do well, whereas if you are at a uni with lower GPAs you may get adjusted. If you really want to go to a top 3 school, any school is fine, but plan on being in the top of your class if you really want to have a good shot.
 
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BlueDemForever said:
Then, would I increase my chances of getting into one of the three medical schools that I mentioned, if I had the same undergraduate credentials, pursued a PhD in physics after college from a prestigious program, re-took the MCAT in my last year of grad school, and still volunteered throughout grad school? I would really appreciate any input.
Click to expand...

This just screams of you being an ignorant prestige *****. Who would spend 6-7 years doing a PhD in physics "at a prestigious program" (lol good luck with that) to get into medical school?
 
My neighbor went to SUNY-Binghamton University and got into Columbia University's College of Dental Medicine. Yes, not medical school but nevertheless a case of "Public Undergrad to Elite University for Graduate Studies".

Personally, I'd just be happy to get into a medical school that fits my interests and goals as a potential doctor. Prestige is the last thing I care about when it comes to medical school.
 
Seriously people, there is no evidence that going to an expensive private school will help you. Go public or state, it's cheaper and the quality of education is [usually] good.
 
However if you are privileged and you go to prep schools and then private schools you have some unfair advantage....

I've seen it with people in my prep school.

They end up becoming CEO's and Portfolio managers with networking when they go to top private colleges (Wellesley, Williams, Colgate, Amherst, The Ivy League, etc.) and my prep school has an overwhelming percentage of students that go to Ivy League and top private schools.
 
Arijos0222 said:
However if you are privileged and you go to prep schools and then private schools you have some unfair advantage....

I've seen it with people in my prep school.

They end up becoming CEO's and Portfolio managers with networking when they go to top private colleges (Wellesley, Williams, Colgate, Amherst, The Ivy League, etc.) and my prep school has an overwhelming percentage of students that go to Ivy League and top private schools.
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Medical Schools really don't give a **** where you went though, as long as it has a decent reputation. Just get high grades and good MCAT scores. Connections really don't matter. If they did I would be practically guaranteed admissions. For some careers (law is a good example), connections really do matter. For instance, the son of a high profile politician is likely to be accepted to a top tier law school.
 
nysegop said:
Medical Schools really don't give a **** where you went though, as long as it has a decent reputation. Just get high grades and good MCAT scores. Connections really don't matter. If they did I would be practically guaranteed admissions. For some careers (law is a good example), connections really do matter. For instance, the son of a high profile politician is likely to be accepted to a top tier law school.
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I know I'm from Arkansas, and I'm not exactly going to a top-tier school... just my state one... but I wanted to stress that connections can benefit you - but they, in my opinion, benefit you FAR more when they are ones you have made independently outside of your parents. I'm a first generation college grad so my parents are [I say this respectfully] useless when it comes to anything academic related. I was able to connect with an alum during undergraduate who is chair of peds. Besides providing me with a strong LOR, his support and advice has been essential in getting me through the application process.

I say this to basically say - Make connections. But make them yourself. The ones you earn and cultivate will mean far more than those parents arrange.
 
HSUReddie said:
I know I'm from Arkansas, and I'm not exactly going to a top-tier school... just my state one... but I wanted to stress that connections can benefit you - but they, in my opinion, benefit you FAR more when they are ones you have made independently outside of your parents. I'm a first generation college grad so my parents are [I say this respectfully] useless when it comes to anything academic related. I was able to connect with an alum during undergraduate who is chair of peds. Besides providing me with a strong LOR, his support and advice has been essential in getting me through the application process.

I say this to basically say - Make connections. But make them yourself. The ones you earn and cultivate will mean far more than those parents arrange.
Click to expand...

Just curious, what industry are you in?
Your profile says "health student".
 
nysegop said:
Just curious, what industry are you in?
Your profile says "health student".
Click to expand...

There's a lack of "Public health student" on the designations. 👎

Ever since I came across public health, I knew I wanted to do both that and medical school. Instead of doing it as a dual degree, I decided to do them separately. Mainly because I didn't take the MCAT until last year and also because I wanted to do the MSPH in Tropical Medicine at Tulane (only one of its kind in the US), but preferred to attend medical school back in AR.
 
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