.001% of pre med students

[Chemistry>Physics]

Imagine you had the opportunity to build one of the elite pre med students, either you could give advice to yourself as a freshman or you knew a high school level senior who wanted pre med. What things would you tell them or recommend to them to absolutely ace the pre med process?

I am an admitted student at my state university (this is a premed question even though I'm in high school - so mods please don't move to high school forum)

I already have these things:
1000 hours of volunteering
EMT certified and job as an ED tech
2 first author publications (working on two more)
Lab assistant in cancer biology lab
Two summers of research at NIH
Guaranteed LOR writers from congressman, research doc, prof, state representative (haven't asked for LOR yet)
Eagle Scout
Read around 7 textbooks a year (19-20 pages a day for 365.25 days)

I am a socially normal senior, have friends, go to parties, just very very dedicated. I have four years and I'm not trolling I really don't want to ever be in the category of "might not get accepted". I plan to continue to volunteer, research, get high gpa. What else could I keep doing that would be the .001% of applicants?

Suggestions to get your mind thinking:
1) Read economist each week to increase VR
2) study 1-2 hour a day for MCAT throughout college
3) research at Ivy League
4) start clubs, non profit, or business



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[JustAPhD]

 

[Lannister]

Unfortunately, most of the stuff you do before starting college is irrelevant and you should not report it on your application for medical school. The only exceptions are truly outstanding things (publications) and things that you continue into college.

 

[Mansamusa]

"Socially normal"

The best thing you can do is calm yourself and explore. Don't just put on pre-med blinders.

To not be in the "might not get accepted" category you just need a good GPA, MCAT score, and not be a sociopath.

 

[Lannister]

Also, this post makes me kind of sad. It's depressing that anyone would make their entire life revolve around getting into a top medical school.

 

[eteshoe]

Imagine you had the opportunity to build one of the elite pre med students, either you could give advice to yourself as a freshman or you knew a high school level senior who wanted pre med. What things would you tell them or recommend to them to absolutely ace the pre med process?

I am an admitted student at my state university (this is a premed question even though I'm in high school - so mods please don't move to high school forum)

I already have these things:
1000 hours of volunteering
EMT certified and job as an ED tech
2 first author publications (working on two more)
Lab assistant in cancer biology lab
Two summers of research at NIH
Guaranteed LOR writers from congressman, research doc, prof, state representative (haven't asked for LOR yet)
Eagle Scout
Read around 7 textbooks a year (19-20 pages a day for 365.25 days)

I am a socially normal senior, have friends, go to parties, just very very dedicated. I have four years and I'm not trolling I really don't want to ever be in the category of "might not get accepted". I plan to continue to volunteer, research, get high gpa. What else could I keep doing that would be the .001% of applicants?

Suggestions to get your mind thinking:
1) Read economist each week to increase VR
2) study 1-2 hour a day for MCAT throughout college
3) research at Ivy League
4) start clubs, non profit, or business



Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

Jesus kid you are not a normal senior. Though that isn't really a problem because it takes a bit of insanity to sign up to be a physician these days. Continue with your ECs, read a mix of fiction and non-fiction, current events. No real point in studying for the MCAT until you've taken some of the courses (1 yr to 6 months out or you really risk diminishing returns). Join a club, rise up through the ranks. No need to start a business if you are not passionate about it. Relax and enjoy college.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Also, this post makes me kind of sad. It's depressing that anyone would make their entire life revolve around getting into a top medical school.

It's fun, I am enjoying myself. I just found that I could cut the fat out of my life. I came home from school freshman and sophomore year and watched Netflix/sat on Facebook or Twitter like majority of my peers. But instead I felt like I didn't need any of that, and started working nights and some weekends. So far I've really enjoyed it. I just have a rule that I don't work from 6pm until 6am on weekends because then I can still be socially healthy. But I believe we are limitless and the only things which hold us back are the small mental barriers we put in place.


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[zaztong]

Well I opened a business (profitable), it helped me realize I don't want to go into an highly expensive and "elite" medical school and get into huge debt, since I didn't want to go into clinical research with a MD-PhD or academia. If they offered a free ride, that'd be different though

If you are truly a person that has top 0.001% talent, you shouldn't be trying to go through some formula predetermined by others and chasing "elite", unless you have a really good reason. You'll lose out on the holistic development in terms of utility and ironically that's exactly the opposite of what "elite" medical schools are looking for. Do things you truly care about and figure out first - is being a doctor something you truly want?

Getting a 4.0 GPA and 45 MCAT shouldn't be your concern. Getting a 3.9 and 34 (or equivalent) should suffice for medical school to prove your academic credentials for most if not all schools.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Moving to hSDN as OP is a high school and there are months before college terms begin. Thread location is based on one's status, not the target audience. Plenty of people provide this kind of advice there, but I will leave a redirect for those who want to follow from PA to hSDN.

 

[Mansamusa]

It's fun, I am enjoying myself. I just found that I could cut the fat out of my life. I came home from school freshman and sophomore year and watched Netflix/sat on Facebook or Twitter like majority of my peers. But instead I felt like I didn't need any of that, and started working nights and some weekends. So far I've really enjoyed it. I just have a rule that I don't work from 6pm until 6am on weekends because then I can still be socially healthy. But I believe we are limitless and the only things which hold us back are the small mental barriers we put in place.


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What some people call a mental barriers others call the things that make life matter.

And OP, there are a lot of huge negatives about becoming a MD and entering the medical field. Give yourself the chance to see these negatives (too many pre-meds ignore these issues until it is too late) and make sure you set yourself up to have other career options that you would enjoy

 

[ZedsDed]

I'd wager that most of the "top 0.001" are just naturally extraordinary people to be honest and probably don't focus too much on crafting a facade of excellence.

Just be the best applicant that you can be.

 

[Spinach Dip]

No nobel prize?
No olympic medals?
You don't speak 7 languages?
No LOR from a sitting President/King?
You haven't founded a society to compete with the Missionaries of Charity?

Time to step up your game.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Moving to hSDN as OP is a high school and there are months before college terms begin. Thread location is based on one's status, not the target audience. Plenty of people provide this kind of advice there, but I will leave a redirect for those who want to follow from PA to hSDN.

I understand, thank you though.


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[Chemistry>Physics]

What some people call a mental barriers others call the things that make life matter.

And OP, there are a lot of huge negatives about becoming a MD and entering the medical field. Give yourself the chance to see these negatives (too many pre-meds ignore these issues until it is too late) and make sure you set yourself up to have other career options that you would enjoy

Hahaha I understand the great negatives of becoming an MD, I have shadowed been in clinics, volunteered. All of the exposure you would have as a sophomore or junior level pre med I have. I am very confident that this is the career path I want to go down. it's a rare type of career that allows you to get very educated and use what you know to save other people's lives. That would be the most rewarding feeling every day knowing that you were saving lives through what you know. I'm not in it for the money but financial security is an undeniable fact for people who go into medicine. The entire thing is very attractive for me and I know it's what I want to do!


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[Chemistry>Physics]

I'd wager that most of the "top 0.001" are just naturally extraordinary people to be honest and probably don't focus too much on crafting a facade of excellence.

Just be the best applicant that you can be.

Well what you may see as a facade of excellence, Is a genuine love for science and research. I love what I do and I've been been doing it for two years. I want to know the things that will guarantee me a spot at a high tier md-Ph.D. Program because I have the chance with where I'm at right now to get into one. It does get old hearing the "why do you value the high tier so bad". The answer is :I want it because I can get it. Why would would I settle for less when I can work hard, prove myself from an early age, and succeed. It would've been nice to get actual responses to a genuine question. Naturally extraordinary people are the ones that are able to do a lot and succeed, I don't think it is solely an MCAT score or knowledge. I think it is applying yourself in exemplary ways.


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[eteshoe]

Well what you may see as a facade of excellence, Is a genuine love for science and research. I love what I do and I've been been doing it for two years. I want to know the things that will guarantee me a spot at a high tier md-Ph.D. Program because I have the chance with where I'm at right now to get into one. It does get old hearing the "why do you value the high tier so bad". The answer is :I want it because I can get it. Why would would I settle for less when I can work hard, prove myself from an early age, and succeed. It would've been nice to get actual responses to a genuine question. Naturally extraordinary people are the ones that are able to do a lot and succeed, I don't think it is solely an MCAT score or knowledge. I think it is applying yourself in exemplary ways.


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That's admirable in a sense. I guess I'll ask, do you have an idea of what you'd like to study in college? Also get involved in research as early as possible (or continue in your case). But I would also suggest that you take some time after undergrad to do dedicated research (1-2 yrs) because UG and summer REUs don't paint as a definitive picture of what full time PhD research is like. Because it's one thing to get into a top tier MD/PhD program and another to finish within a reasonable amount of time and not be absolutely burned out by one of the two ends of the training regiment.

 

[grapp]

I'm graduating high school early, also have 2 publications. Including volunteering time, but you don't need to kill the hours. Perhaps you can say well I've volunteered at the hospital for the past 7 years. I've done 8 summers of research from the time I was ( your age ) . I don't understand how you have your EMT-B and work as ED tech, the federal law is 18, unless you are a late graduating senior?

Don't start studying for the MCAT, I don't even understand why you are. It's great to improve your high level of reading, but seriously studying that long for the MCAT is worthless. Ask any med student / premed the most many of them spend is 6-12 months. An eagle scout is perhaps another thing you can talk about.

I'm not faculty, a doctor, or even a med student. But, you do need to just relax... I think it's cool you want to make yourself an outstanding applicant, but if you keep working like this... I understand for the "time-being" it's fun, but you will literally burn yourself straight out of college and out of medical school. Seriously... I know I'm probably no one to you on this form out of all the attending physicians and moderators. BUT RELAX.

 

[Medstart108]

Ignore the haters just keep doing what you are doing. While its true for most people doing what you are doing sounds boring or stressful, but if you are not most people then just do whatever makes you happy. If people still discourage you its because they are trying to impose their life onto yours or they are jealous and want to put you down.

 

[Spinach Dip]

2 first author publications (working on two more)

I'm graduating high school early, also have 2 publications.

How in the holy &@#$ do people have 2 publications IN HIGH SCHOOL!?!

Is your dad the head of a quick-turnover lab or something?

 

[ZedsDed]

@efle @md-2020
You guys weren't this bad in high school were you? Lol

 

[grapp]

I

Ignore the haters just keep doing what you are doing. While its true for most people doing what you are doing sounds boring or stressful, but if you are not most people then just do whatever makes you happy. If people still discourage you its because they are trying to impose their life onto yours or they are jealous and want to put you down.

I agree, but do you think he might burn himself out? I think what he is doing is awesome and is similar on what I'm trying to do, at much much smaller level.

 

[Mansamusa]

Well what you may see as a facade of excellence, Is a genuine love for science and research. I love what I do and I've been been doing it for two years. I want to know the things that will guarantee me a spot at a high tier md-Ph.D. Program because I have the chance with where I'm at right now to get into one. It does get old hearing the "why do you value the high tier so bad". The answer is :I want it because I can get it. Why would would I settle for less when I can work hard, prove myself from an early age, and succeed. It would've been nice to get actual responses to a genuine question. Naturally extraordinary people are the ones that are able to do a lot and succeed, I don't think it is solely an MCAT score or knowledge. I think it is applying yourself in exemplary ways.


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I went to a top 10 undergrad and I would choose the state med school 20mins from my house over Harvard Med without a second thought (whereas graduating hs I would have thought that crazy). Your priorities and desires change. And some people (not necessarily you) go into college with a set idea that is so entrenched in their mind that they don't allow themselves to realize that they aren't happy with their choices.

Eg. I started undergrad thinking that I would be in academics. Now there is no way I would ever go near a MD/PhD program (and I very much enjoy research).

I've seen people who sounded like you when they started undergrad get themselves suicidal and depressed with their obsession (even if they do achieve their goal). If you are looking for things to do solely for the purpose of getting to a top med school, you are setting yourself up for failure.

Do your best at the things you love. If that ends up being research then just do your best at research. Having a "gonna do whatever it takes" mentality is unhealthy, will cause you to make poor decisions, and will burn you out.

And these are genuine answers. Most people at top schools found something they loved and were just the best at it. They didn't follow a formula- I actually think following the standard pre-med path is one the worst ways of getting into a top med school. The only thing that all people from top med schools have in common is high stats, so just worry about that

 

[Mansamusa]

How in the holy &@#$ do people have 2 publications IN HIGH SCHOOL!?!

Is your dad the head of a quick-turnover lab or something?

Students from well-off backgrounds are really well-connected. I've had to teach a high schooler in my current lab (which doesn't even allow undergrads) because the girl's dad got her in

 

[md-2020]

@efle @md-2020
You guys weren't this bad in high school were you? Lol

My high school grades weren't great I had no publications I wanted to be a banker and I felt sorry for my parents for being doctors. Yah no, OP is on a whole different level.

Honestly for as much as I despise the concept OP should probably be going for BS/MD

 

[hmockingbird]

I know it's super annoying to be told to slow down and keep an open mind... but seriously it's good advice.

There were kids in my high school like you. Most of them have NOT gone on to become a doctor. They found something else they were interested in, instead. I think the best example is a woman in a bunch of my AP classes who's now a kindergarten teacher. On the other hand, I was not of those people and I went on to med school. I had always been interested in medicine as a career, but not really bench research or hard sciences which is what most of my pre-pre-med classmates were doing. I actually talked about my English major in residency interviews. My point is, you don't always know where life is going to take you and that's OK, that's why it's good to explore. Even if you do decide to stick with medicine... you need something else to talk about during your interviews and something to fill your time during med school (hobby) so you don't burn out.

I'm like 99% sure I want to do a specific fellowship and I know myself and know the 99% is pretty accurate. However, it's still important to me to honestly evaluate every other sub-specialty experience I have, especially once I get into residency, and not be so stubborn that I miss a chance to change towards something that makes me happier. Even though I am sure, keeping an open mind is still a factor.

 

[efle]

@efle @md-2020
You guys weren't this bad in high school were you? Lol

Noooo, my main interests in high school were sports, video games and girls. I never set foot in a lab before graduating. This is a crazy ass resume for a high schooler

 

[randomguy123456]

I already have these things:
1000 hours of volunteering
EMT certified and job as an ED tech
2 first author publications (working on two more)
Lab assistant in cancer biology lab
Two summers of research at NIH
Guaranteed LOR writers from congressman, research doc, prof, state representative (haven't asked for LOR yet)
Eagle Scout
Read around 7 textbooks a year (19-20 pages a day for 365.25 days)




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DAM man, DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

 

[eteshoe]

DAM man, DAMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM

Now all I keep hearing is that "damn Daniel" voice lol

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Ignore the haters just keep doing what you are doing. While its true for most people doing what you are doing sounds boring or stressful, but if you are not most people then just do whatever makes you happy. If people still discourage you its because they are trying to impose their life onto yours or they are jealous and want to put you down.

Thank you dude! I appreciate it


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[Chemistry>Physics]

I know it's super annoying to be told to slow down and keep an open mind... but seriously it's good advice.

There were kids in my high school like you. Most of them have NOT gone on to become a doctor. They found something else they were interested in, instead. I think the best example is a woman in a bunch of my AP classes who's now a kindergarten teacher. On the other hand, I was not of those people and I went on to med school. I had always been interested in medicine as a career, but not really bench research or hard sciences which is what most of my pre-pre-med classmates were doing. I actually talked about my English major in residency interviews. My point is, you don't always know where life is going to take you and that's OK, that's why it's good to explore. Even if you do decide to stick with medicine... you need something else to talk about during your interviews and something to fill your time during med school (hobby) so you don't burn out.

I'm like 99% sure I want to do a specific fellowship and I know myself and know the 99% is pretty accurate. However, it's still important to me to honestly evaluate every other sub-specialty experience I have, especially once I get into residency, and not be so stubborn that I miss a chance to change towards something that makes me happier. Even though I am sure, keeping an open mind is still a factor.

Great advice and I will consider. I am interested in literature and film, half interested in politics. Nothing gets me going like microbio though, I've had a really good global liberal arts education as an IB diploma candidate. The exposure to different fields has been great and I keep turning to hard molecular and micro biology. It's beautiful to me, we can save lives with crispr, talens, etc. I want to use those to design drugs and save lives. I feel like I've found what i wanted early. You can help maybe ~10,000 patients over the course of your career as an MD. You have the potential to help much more >100,000 or even 1mil patients if you have a well designed drug. I want to look back on my life and say I sacrificed some things, reached the top of my field, and saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I have a goal, I know the goal, I'm sure of my goal, I am doing things to reach my goal, all I need is to be sure my goal will never be out of reach. I really want a guarantee over the situation.


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[Chemistry>Physics]

Students from well-off backgrounds are really well-connected. I've had to teach a high schooler in my current lab (which doesn't even allow undergrads) because the girl's dad got her in

Common misconception. We are all capable of getting into labs as high schoolers. PIs always want the extra help, especially if that help can come and stay for 4-5 years. I pitched myself to 50 labs after having one publication from a local pediatric oncologist and I was accepted by a cancer biology lab. I told them I would be attending that state university and that I would be able to work in the lab 20 hours a week for the duration of my undergrad. For a PI who knows anything, this would be a great opportunity. Again this is a complete misconception, well connected backgrounds did not get me in the position I am in. Discipline and hard work trumps nepotism ten fold. Now I'm working on a program for 200-300 high school students to get into the labs at my univ. I want to make it so other kids that might not have had my drive but they are capable like I am, get the chance to get in my situation. Nothing is truly out of bounds when you want something enough.


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[Mansamusa]

Common misconception. We are all capable of getting into labs as high schoolers. PIs always want the extra help, especially if that help can come and stay for 4-5 years. I pitched myself to 50 labs after having one publication from a local pediatric oncologist and I was accepted by a cancer biology lab. I told them I would be attending that state university and that I would be able to work in the lab 20 hours a week for the duration of my undergrad. For a PI who knows anything, this would be a great opportunity. Again this is a complete misconception, well connected backgrounds did not get me in the position I am in. Discipline and hard work trumps nepotism ten fold. Now I'm working on a program for 200-300 high school students to get into the labs at my univ. I want to make it so other kids that might not have had my drive but they are capable like I am, get the chance to get in my situation. Nothing is truly out of bounds when you want something enough.

You are young. I know several people in top MD/PhD and MD programs who have connections/family members on the admissions board. Nepotism goes a very far way in this world and can very easily override someone else's hard work, haha. And being well-connected doesn't preclude you from being a hard worker

How did you get the initial pub with a pediatric oncologist?

 

[eteshoe]

Great advice and I will consider. I am interested in literature and film, half interested in politics. Nothing gets me going like microbio though, I've had a really good global liberal arts education as an IB diploma candidate. The exposure to different fields has been great and I keep turning to hard molecular and micro biology. It's beautiful to me, we can save lives with crispr, talens, etc. I want to use those to design drugs and save lives. I feel like I've found what i wanted early. You can help maybe ~10,000 patients over the course of your career as an MD. You have the potential to help much more >100,000 or even 1mil patients if you have a well designed drug. I want to look back on my life and say I sacrificed some things, reached the top of my field, and saved hundreds of thousands of lives. I have a goal, I know the goal, I'm sure of my goal, I am doing things to reach my goal, all I need is to be sure my goal will never be out of reach. I really want a guarantee over the situation.


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When you say you want to design drugs and the other statements you've made it makes me feel as though you don't quite understand what goes into the process. Do you want to be a medicinal chemist, screening and synthesizing molecules? Do you want to be a pharmacologist understanding mechanisms of actions of drugs on the market or validating potential drug targets? Do you want to work in clinical trials? What disease context really intrigues you? You understand that you will most likely be working on a team and thus won't really get the credit for designing a wonder drug (unless you're the lead PI). I just want you to keep these things in mind because one thing that research does is that it shows you just how insanely difficult the problem is and just how far we (science community) are from developing viable therapies. Science is an iterative science that builds on the backs of the giants that came before us - just be ready for the long haul, especially if you are considering MD/PhD

 

[eteshoe]

Common misconception. We are all capable of getting into labs as high schoolers. PIs always want the extra help, especially if that help can come and stay for 4-5 years. I pitched myself to 50 labs after having one publication from a local pediatric oncologist and I was accepted by a cancer biology lab. I told them I would be attending that state university and that I would be able to work in the lab 20 hours a week for the duration of my undergrad. For a PI who knows anything, this would be a great opportunity. Again this is a complete misconception, well connected backgrounds did not get me in the position I am in. Discipline and hard work trumps nepotism ten fold. Now I'm working on a program for 200-300 high school students to get into the labs at my univ. I want to make it so other kids that might not have had my drive but they are capable like I am, get the chance to get in my situation. Nothing is truly out of bounds when you want something enough.


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This is a blanket statement that is dependent on quite a few factors. The level of the PI (asst., assoc., full prof), publication activity (some of the most productive labs are postdoc factories), the PI's personal biases (I've worked for PI's that won't give undergrads, let alone high schoolers, a chance in the lab since they do very expensive experiments and/or don't want to deal with training UGs), and location. In a high density scientific community/area, your argument may be valid but not in the isolated environments that many colleges tend to be located. Just pointing out the reality of the situation - you are a very fortunate student in having those opportunities, not everyone can be so lucky.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

You are young. I know several people in top MD/PhD and MD programs who have connections/family members on the admissions board. Nepotism goes a very far way in this world and can very easily override someone else's hard work, haha. And being well-connected doesn't preclude you from being a hard worker

How did you get the initial pub with a pediatric oncologist?

Initial pub from oncologist came from hard work and asking doctors to help them get their ideas published. asking if he would be my mentor, getting mentored and doing research with him. I don't take such a pessimistic view as you might, sure I believe that nepotism exists. There are probably around 10-100 kids every admissions cycle that got in because they knew someone. But those cases are few and far between, legacies aren't as much as a problem as they have been. The AAMC has done an excellent job purifying the field from these examples and the medical school committees shun it when it happens. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me that because I have gotten things early that it was because I was well connected, if so you're factually incorrect. If you want to support an anecdotal argument about how nepotism takes people places in medicine, sure you're probably right for a couple cases every matriculating class. In whole, nah. 38 (or equivalent) on the MCAT = hard. 4.0s = hard. Excelling in ECs = hard. If you're well connected these things don't come because you know someone.


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[Chemistry>Physics]

When you say you want to design drugs and the other statements you've made it makes me feel as though you don't quite understand what goes into the process. Do you want to be a medicinal chemist, screening and synthesizing molecules? Do you want to be a pharmacologist understanding mechanisms of actions of drugs on the market or validating potential drug targets? Do you want to work in clinical trials? What disease context really intrigues you? You understand that you will most likely be working on a team and thus won't really get the credit for designing a wonder drug (unless you're the lead PI). I just want you to keep these things in mind because one thing that research does is that it shows you just how insanely difficult the problem is and just how far we (science community) are from developing viable therapies. Science is an iterative science that builds on the backs of the giants that came before us - just be ready for the long haul, especially if you are considering MD/PhD

When I say designing drugs I mean an immunologist with a pharmacology background. I know I'm going to get made fun of, just let it out and grill me for what I'm about to say. I know everyone here will say 'stupid noob doesn't understand how medicine works!!11! Go back to high school pleb! .. But .. I want to work on, collaborate with, or start, a basic pharmaceutical discovery initiative with top scientists. A pharmaceutical company that uses top AI machine learning algorithms to discover new drugs (atomwise is doing this) and get them to the market much faster than we are doing now (while still being safe and ethical). If you could imagine a project that had facilities running machines that ran experiments 24 hours a days every year with precise accurate experiments. This way the undergrad lab technician couldn't ruin the experiment (already works, look up emerald cloud lab). Then all data discovered goes open source, entire science community benefits. I want to expand these efforts and lead a team of scientists with computer scientists to discover drugs. Feel free to make fun of me or poke holes in my ignorance/grandiose ideas. I've already heard it all ahaha, "how will you get funding" "what do you know about running a business" etc.




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[Mansamusa]

Initial pub from oncologist came from hard work and asking doctors to help them get their ideas published. asking if he would be my mentor, getting mentored and doing research with him. I don't take such a pessimistic view as you might, sure I believe that nepotism exists. There are probably around 10-100 kids every admissions cycle that got in because they knew someone. But those cases are few and far between, legacies aren't as much as a problem as they have been. The AAMC has done an excellent job purifying the field from these examples and the medical school committees shun it when it happens. I'm not sure if you're trying to convince me that because I have gotten things early that it was because I was well connected, if so you're factually incorrect. If you want to support an anecdotal argument about how nepotism takes people places in medicine, sure you're probably right for a couple cases every matriculating class. In whole, nah. 38 (or equivalent) on the MCAT = hard. 4.0s = hard. Excelling in ECs = hard. If you're well connected these things don't come because you know someone.

I'm not taking a pessimistic view. People from certain backgrounds are more likely to be set up (or even know how to look) for specific experiences, especially at such a young age. Maybe it is not the case for you, but as a whole it is absolutely the trend and I would say that mostly all high schoolers who work in labs (and are not a part of a specific program) come from well-off and connected backgrounds. That is not a criticism of you, and even if someone only gets into a lab because of a connection doesn't mean that that person doesn't/didn't work hard.

AAMC has no control over who med schools admit. Legacies and connections play a much greater role than you believe (secondary applications usually ask for family connections), though, obviously, legacy is not all that matters in the application. And I'm not talking about connections getting you a 38 on the MCAT; I'm talking about connections getting you ECs that other people would otherwise have difficulty accessing. You are spouting opinions about a process with which you have no experience.


And I think you are taking offense without understanding what people are saying. No one is saying that you shouldn't have big goals or that you won't accomplish want you want. We are saying that you do not have a full understanding of what you want and what the fields you are talking about are like (and that's okay!) and that being too one-tracked minded isn't good. For example, with your goals stated above, why do you want a MD? If you are going into industry, you can accomplish all those goals with a PhD. Allow your goals to unroll and develop and change as you go through school and learn more.

But honestly, you seem intent on your ways, so I wish you luck in college! It's an exciting time in your life, so enjoy!

 

[eteshoe]

When I say designing drugs I mean an immunologist with a pharmacology background. I know I'm going to get made fun of, just let it out and grill me for what I'm about to say. I know everyone here will say 'stupid noob doesn't understand how medicine works!!11! Go back to high school pleb! .. But .. I want to work on, collaborate with, or start, a basic pharmaceutical discovery initiative with top scientists. A pharmaceutical company that uses top AI machine learning algorithms to discover new drugs (atomwise is doing this) and get them to the market much faster than we are doing now (while still being safe and ethical). If you could imagine a project that had facilities running machines that ran experiments 24 hours a days every year with precise accurate experiments. This way the undergrad lab technician couldn't ruin the experiment (already works, look up emerald cloud lab). Then all data discovered goes open source, entire science community benefits. I want to expand these efforts and lead a team of scientists with computer scientists to discover drugs. Feel free to make fun of me or poke holes in my ignorance/grandiose ideas. I've already heard it all ahaha, "how will you get funding" "what do you know about running a business" etc.




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Hey I'm currently in a cancer pharmacology PhD program so I'll just point out a few things.

1. one of the biggest issues with drugs these days is acquired resistance (at least in cancer), even immunotherapy will have to deal with this issue so keep that in mind.

2. drug discovery or screening is not the hard part - it's sifting through the insane amount of data. It's a very nuanced practice and you need a classical synthetic or medicinal chemist on your team.

3. Computational algorithms are nice but they can't take into account the genetic variations that make certain compounds metabolize slower (there will be advances in this area but it's still about 20 yrs or more into the future).

4. FDA is not going to make this challenge any easier.

5. I like this idea but you have to remember a couple things: equipment capital cost and human greed. While the science community is quite receptive, you will come to learn that there is a surprising amount of pettiness especially when it can affect grant funding.

I don't make fun of young people's dreams - that's what will lead to innovation in the future. I just want to give you some aspects to consider and current challenges. Dream big but remember that "vision without (proper) execution is a hallucination".

 

[Apollo1]

I don't understand how you have your EMT-B and work as ED tech, the federal law is 18, unless you are a late graduating senior?

NREMT registration is minimum 18 y/o, but OP is ambiguous on how s/he is "certified."

legacies aren't as much as a problem as they have been. The AAMC has done an excellent job purifying the field from these examples and the medical school committees shun it when it happens.

Discipline and hard work trumps nepotism ten fold.

1) Read economist each week to increase VR
2) study 1-2 hour a day for MCAT throughout college

it's a rare type of career that allows you to get very educated and use what you know to save other people's lives. That would be the most rewarding feeling every day knowing that you were saving lives through what you know.

I'm getting a troll sensation, but I'll bite. OP, it's good to be passionate about a thing and have grand ideas for what you want to do later on in life. You're also making statements about things you can't even begin to understand (possibly because you're young, but we were all there once). IIRC, there have been numerous threads stating that high school accomplishments aren't transferrable to med school apps. Congrats on getting into your state school and forget about the majority of them.

Slow and steady wins the race. Try to see the forest for the trees when you come up for air.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

NREMT registration is minimum 18 y/o, but OP is ambiguous on how s/he is "certified."









I'm getting a troll sensation, but I'll bite. OP, it's good to be passionate about a thing and have grand ideas for what you want to do later on in life. You're also making statements about things you can't even begin to understand (possibly because you're young, but we were all there once). IIRC, there have been numerous threads stating that high school accomplishments aren't transferrable to med school apps. Congrats on getting into your state school and forget about the majority of them.

Slow and steady wins the race. Try to see the forest for the trees when you come up for air.

Emt when I became 18. Started doing Sundays as an Ed tech. Hahaha im not a troll, and I know I've heard about high schoolers not being able to put what they've done in hs on med app. I'm just going to put life events on there. (So everything except my volunteer hours.) and I'm trying to keep the fastest pace while I'm still sane. Ah explaining myself was useless. I was just looking for interesting things people have done which got them into A UCSF or Johns Hopkins, mayo, Harvard. But you can't have nice things on SDN these days without someone telling you how to live your life ahah. I'll probably just keep gunning change nothing about my life and stay hella motivated. Thanks for the advice


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[Chemistry>Physics]

Hey I'm currently in a cancer pharmacology PhD program so I'll just point out a few things.

1. one of the biggest issues with drugs these days is acquired resistance (at least in cancer), even immunotherapy will have to deal with this issue so keep that in mind.

2. drug discovery or screening is not the hard part - it's sifting through the insane amount of data. It's a very nuanced practice and you need a classical synthetic or medicinal chemist on your team.

3. Computational algorithms are nice but they can't take into account the genetic variations that make certain compounds metabolize slower (there will be advances in this area but it's still about 20 yrs or more into the future).

4. FDA is not going to make this challenge any easier.

5. I like this idea but you have to remember a couple things: equipment capital cost and human greed. While the science community is quite receptive, you will come to learn that there is a surprising amount of pettiness especially when it can affect grant funding.

I don't make fun of young people's dreams - that's what will lead to innovation in the future. I just want to give you some aspects to consider and current challenges. Dream big but remember that "vision without (proper) execution is a hallucination".

Hey thank you dude. I really respect the cancer pharmacology, I would love to be in your position one day. Thanks


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[Spinach Dip]

But you can't have nice things on SDN these days without someone telling you how to live your life ahah.

Welcome to the internet!

 

[Mansamusa]

Hey thank you dude. I really respect the cancer pharmacology, I would love to be in your position one day. Thanks


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If you really just want to know the things that MD/PhD students did, search "MD PhD linkedin" or "MD PhD student profiles." There are detailed resumes. For MD/PhD you just do research and get a high GPA and MCAT. For MD, it's a crapshoot with high GPA and MCAT

Your orginal post asks for people's opinions, so that's what posters offered up

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

If you really just want to know the things that MD/PhD students did, search "MD PhD linkedin" or "MD PhD student profiles." There are detailed resumes. For MD/PhD you just do research and get a high GPA and MCAT. For MD, it's a crapshoot

Thank you, I forget about linkedin I will try that.


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[BackForrealz]

Thank you, I forget about linkedin I will try that.


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Final Verdict:

Go into politics, your chance of getting in medical school is low. You need a bach. degree.

 

[Chemistry>Physics]

Final Verdict:

Go into politics, your chance of getting in medical school is low. You need a bach. degree.

Great post, thanks for the input m8


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[EverStriving]

@eteshoe made some great points about pharmacology already, but I figured I'd add a couple myself.

and get them to the market much faster than we are doing now (while still being safe and ethical)

1. Pushing drugs to market more quickly necessarily decreases confidence in the safety of the drugs, because it takes a lot of time to gather the needed safety data. An extreme example - a drug might cause fatal cancer in 30% of patients 8 years after it was taken, and if that drug was rushed to market within 5 years, thousands could die before the cause was discovered. And thousands more would continue to die within the 8 years after it was pulled from the market.

2. If you are really interested in pharma, it may be a good idea to inform yourself about the business realities of the industry, as it will affect you during your career. I recently read an eye-opening exposé, and I highly recommend it. Our Daily Meds by Melody Peterson, a NY Times journalist. Another great read that covers conflicts of interest in both the pharma and medical industries is How We Do Harm by Otis Brawley, MD.

 

[jeffk805dent]

think bigger guns

 

[Law2Doc]

It's fun, I am enjoying myself. I just found that I could cut the fat out of my life. ...

When you are young you SHOULD have fat in your life. Just like we give babies whole milk. When you get older you'll have more than enough time to get lean and focused.