1.77 gpa and kicked out of school - out of all options?

[smartcardia]

i have edited this post

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[RogueUnicorn]

can you please type like an adult....

a 50 on the mcat won't balance out a 1.77.. in the last couple years no person has had stats such as the one you describe, even spotting you a HIGH mcat score, and even looking at the 2.2-2.4 GPA folks, the acceptance rate with high MCAT is less than 15%

if you really want to be a doctor, the road for you will be long and hard. sorry.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Unfortunately, it sounds like you have so many credits that it's essentially impossible to bring your GPA up high enough to be competitive at a US MD school. I usually don't advocate going to the Caribbean except as a last resort, but I think you're at last resort time. If you really, really want to be a doctor, I think that's your only chance at this point.

If you decide you want to do that, I strongly recommend that you go back and take some more undergrad classes to get yourself back into an academic mode, get a 4.0 just to show to yourself that you can handle the academic load. Don't go and waste a lot of time and money and go into huge amounts of debt just to get washed out of the meatgrinder that is the Caribbean, which has a notoriously high drop out rate.

Good luck.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

Let's say you were able to go somewhere else and delay receiving your Bachelor's Degree until you added 60 more hours for a total of 140 credits. Further presume that you really got it together and made a 4.0 in every class. Crunching the quality point numbers (4 for an A; 3 for a B; 2 for a C, etc.) you could amass enough points to raise your GPA to about 2.26 - 2.28. (I'm rounding here).

AACOMAS (D.O. schools) helps you in calculating the GPA for those classes that you repeat. Say you received some F grades. We know from your GPA that there are a lot of D and maybe F grades. So, your calculated GPA could rise substantially to a 3.0 IF (a big if) you followed the plan to: (1) staying two more years in undergraduate college; (2) take 60 and maybe 70 more hours; (3) repeat every course in which you made a D or F and every science course in which you made less than a B; (4) avoid the on-line schools(this negative perception is huge).

Go with transcripts in hand to a local brick and mortar college and ask to speak to an Admission person. Dress for success. Look 'em in the eye and ask for a second chance - even on probation taking just one class the first semester (like a double secret probation chance).

Provided that you did this you still have a lot of explaining to do. Not to be too offensive, but the Admission folks will be asking whether you WERE (not still are) an immature, rebellous teenager/young adult or rather a nut job. The fact that you are asking suggests the former rather than the later. Unless you implement and excell in this plan and acton it you won't get into an offshore school either.

 

[lawyerdoc2b]

If you want it bad enough you can do it

 

[fMRI]

Question @ Smartcardia

Why should a medical school chose *you* over another applicant?

Med schools select capable applicants who will be able to deal with the stress of their education without being side-lined by the various blows life deals. Experiencing difficulties should allow you to develop strength to deal with them and LEARN from them.

Your high-school achievements matter as much to Med School admissions as your kindergarten track record did when you applied for college. Doing well in high school doesn't matter if you can't cut it at college.

Thankfully nobody suggested "go the DO route" yet, as a GPA of less than 2.0 would be an insult to those institutions. LawyerDoc told you what to do and what to retake to eventually stand a chance there. With a GPA < 2.0 and possibly a transcript from a virtual college, DO schools would be happy to put your file straight into the trash (that's what your application fee would be used for)...

Either get your act together and let NOTHING (including yourself) get in the way of you working yourself towards Med School, or decide that this is out of your reach. Either way, it is *your* decision about priorities.

 

[djd2187]

at this point you need to finish your undergrad, and I do not say this often but straight a's would be a good start. Also, start looking into post bacc program that accept your gpa and mcat. Hopefull, by then your gpa is upto 3.0 by this time. At the same time if your gpa is atleast 3.0, maybe you can expand your options. But right now focus on bringing your gpa; there is no way around it. Also, someone already mentioned about international schools, so start to look into those. But as for schools here in the states, it can very difficult to impossible.

 

[adeline]

Start over.

Go to your local cc. Tell them you were an idiot and you ****ed up. Now you're looking to do it right, ground up.

Yes, that 1.77 will have to be reported, but AACOMAS will drop the first if you end up retaking; and both places will give you at least a once over if you have 4 years of having your **** together after being an idiot as a kid.

 

[Compass]

Go Paramedic. We'll re-evaluate you at a later point. At this time, waaaaaaaaaaay too early to be even advise you optimistically...

 

[adeline]

Try the withdrawals, see if they'll outright cancel your registration -- that will leave you with only the things you got grades for and no Ws.

Then, rebuild.

 

[Poliscidoc]

hey guys,

thank you all for your posts, i really appreciated it...

since i have been doing some research, i actually found few things i can do... i went to see a psychologist and talk about my condition during the school year and found out that most likely i was under severe depression...

as a result my gpa in last 5 semesters went from 3.45 to 1.77 - most of the classes i took i never went and as a result i got F's in all of them (i have always taken 18 credits per semester)... by doing some research on the net i found that i could actually petition to retroactively withdraw from the classes, i hope this works, if it does than i have a shot at things - my gpa was fine before... i have an appointment with my advisor next week, i m crossing my fingers and hoping for the best...

anymore suggestions of how i can get myself out of this hole?

thanks again for all your help...

If you can get a note from a doctor saying your depression caused your overnight down fall, I'm pretty sure like you said you could be medically withdrawn from the classes. It seems like your a smart guy that has had a lot of bad **** happen..

Good luck though, hope it works out

 

[RecyclingBinh]

Have you ever thought about moving to Texas? We have a law that's called "Fresh Start" which allows students to start all over with a clean transcript. I might look into this if I were you.

 

[STAT EKG]

Have you ever thought about moving to Texas? We have a law that's called "Fresh Start" which allows students to start all over with a clean transcript. I might look into this if I were you.

^^^^WHAAAAAT?!!?

That's pretty unfair to people (like me) who basically did start over and didn't get a clean transcript.

 

[ILikeDrugs]

Have you ever thought about moving to Texas? We have a law that's called "Fresh Start" which allows students to start all over with a clean transcript. I might look into this if I were you.

From http://www.uta.edu/admissions/fresh_start.php:

Texas Senate Bill 1321, entitled "Right to An Academic Fresh Start" allows a person who is a resident of Texas to apply for undergraduate admission and not have coursework completed 10 or more years prior to the date of anticipated enrollment included as consideration in the admission decision. This allows undergraduate students to begin a new course of study with a clear academic record.

 

[nonamesleft]

From http://www.uta.edu/admissions/fresh_start.php:

UBC med has something similar. They exclude all undergrad marks obtained 10 or more years ago when considering your application.

 

[CoolWhipp]

I like that "Fresh Start" idea.

 

[STAT EKG]

I like that "Fresh Start" idea.

I'd like it too if it were applied throughout US schools as opposed to only certain areas.

 

[teenmachinery1]

Shud and wud makes me want to shoot myself.

Best of luck though.

 

[TexasFight]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DO schools "replace" your grades if you take the same courses over again?

If you are willing to go the distance to become a doctor, have you considered taking those 60 credits all over again? (or at least the 36 or so you really messed up on? 36 for two 18 hour semesters)

If this really is true, and you are willing to put up another year of college, wouldn't going to a DO school be much better than going MD in the Caribbean?

 

[physicsnerd42]

Have you ever thought about moving to Texas? We have a law that's called "Fresh Start" which allows students to start all over with a clean transcript. I might look into this if I were you.

Well, that works for undergrad admissions. When applying to med school, though, you still have to include ALL grades.

OP: your only shot is to repeat all the classes you did poorly in, get As, apply to osteopathic schools (after getting a GREAT MCAT score). Honestly, though, that is a long, tough road. An SMP might help your chances a bit, but I'm guessing it would be an inefficient use of your money at this point.

Not to be an a**, but you need to stop making really bad choices. Having one of those things happen, I could understand. Everyone screws up. Still, as a physician, your ability to make good decisions is vital. And even though you had some rough circumstances, why did you not either: A. Put SOME effort toward your classes (straight Fs takes some effort) or B. withdraw from classes when you saw you weren't doing any work or passing any tests?

 

[123165]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't DO schools "replace" your grades if you take the same courses over again?

If you are willing to go the distance to become a doctor, have you considered taking those 60 credits all over again? (or at least the 36 or so you really messed up on? 36 for two 18 hour semesters)

If this really is true, and you are willing to put up another year of college, wouldn't going to a DO school be much better than going MD in the Caribbean?

This is true, however I think the OP we need a different application. If I remember correctly, when you code your replacement classed in AACOMAS, R15 is the highest you can go (meaning 15th course you have repeated), I am not sure though. AACOMAS might need a phone call to get everything straightened out.

However, DO schools do see your entire application, F's and W's, regardless of the replacement policy at AACOMAS. I don't know how they will feel about a horrible track record with all the grades replaced. I suppose it would show dedication.

As for the Texas policy, it is still seen on AMCAS, not sure about the TMDAS (sp?) thing.

What is your major?

Good luck, you have a lot of digging to do.

 

[apumic]

Sorry, but frankly, even if you were to get a 40 on the MCAT with even scores (e.g., 13/13/14) and that GPA and applied at every single US-based MD & DO school, your raw odds of getting in to a single school would be less than 1 in 3 with that bad of a track record (and apps alone would cost a small fortune as well as an insane amount of time if you actually got any secondaries back). The truth is that your story isn't really that compelling. It basically sounds like you slacked off not just once or twice but over and over and over again and now want to go to medical school. I don't mean for this to sound harsh, but it sounds like Billy Madison without the funny parts! Dude... you've gotta get your life together, bring up those grades, and probably wait a few years before applying.

My honest suggestion here would be to work as a paramedic for a good 10 years and prove yourself on the field. After those 10 years and with good recs from your employer (keep 1 employer the whole time, build relationships and move up within the company -- the consistency and upward movement at one job will show you didn't slack off again, because that's what they're going to be looking for after your history), take PA school pre-reqs at an open-entry community college. ACE them (straight As, a B or C at this point would kill you). After acing your pre-reqs, apply to PA school. PA school can be entered with just an associates. If you don't get in after the 2 yr associates degree, complete your BS in a related field (e.g., Biochem) and reapply. A Masters isn't really going to help you at this point and I highly doubt any MA/MS program in any subject would even consider your application. Most will simply toss apps below a 2.9 or 3.0, similarly to med school.

 

[WhiteCoatFuture]

Well, that works for undergrad admissions. When applying to med school, though, you still have to include ALL grades...

Med schools in Texas (excluding Baylor) use their own app system (TMDSAS) and it does disregard grades which are 10+ yrs old if Academic Fresh Start is used. However, even as a Texas resident taking advantage of this program, if you apply outside of Texas and/or to Baylor, ALL of your grades are seen and factored into your gpa since AMCAS does not recognize the fresh start program.

OP, I'm not suggesting you move to Texas.. just making sure this is put out there for any Texas people who might stumble upon this thread.

 

[elyswim]

Ok, I'm sorry but I feel that some of these suggestions are outright ridiculous. Keep in mind at this point that many of these people (including myself) are still PRE-MEDS and though they are very knowledgeable premeds, the fact remains. Granted, you are in a very difficult situation, but to advise someone to be an EMT for 10 years and then follow some convoluted educational path while getting straight As is just absurd.

I would follow the path of a community college, medical schools do look for an upward trending GPA. You will need to do significant work, I don't doubt then you might even want to consider a graduate program (that GPA comes in a different box by itself).
Most importantly, I would find someone more knowledegable than any pre-med student (or med student for that matter). Your situation and future plans are highly unorthodox and require someone with more insight into the process than we can offer.

 

[Javaman]

I think that the sensible thing to do is give up on the whole idea. If you can't handle life's challenges while in college, why should you suddenly be able to in med school or as a doctor?

That being said, I understand that people grow and mature with time. I also understand wanting something that you know is probably impossible to attain. If you really, really, REALLY want to be a doctor, then go for it.

1. Mature. Get your head on straight. Focus on you goal.
2. Like elyswim said, pre-med students and even med students probably don't know enough about this subject to give accurate advice. Find someone who is knowledgeable and get advice from him or her. Wisdom is like wine...aging is the key to perfection.
3. Of all the ideas I read in this post, the best one is trying to get the last couple of semesters expunged from your transcript (or least retroactively withdrawn). Make sure you have plenty of documentation from professional sources that state you were clinically depressed at that time.

BTW, I have a similar problem with my transcript. I was quite sick for the last year of college, and I ended up flunking both semesters. I will be trying to get rid of that on my transcript, now. I can't believe I hadn't thought of it earlier!

 

[stacey]

Well grade wise, do keep in mind that it takes 2 As to make an F into a 2.5 GPA average
It takes 2 As to make a D to a 3.0 average.
It takes 1 A to make a C to a 3.0 average.

So unless you earned a LOT of D/F grades, its still possible to make a mildly competitive GPA. Also, you can always check each school that you went and see if you can get a retroactive withdrawal.

 

[ChemEngSoonMD]

People are typically consistent with their habits. Thats why they are called HABITS. Even if he were to start over, whats to say hes going to get a 4.0 GPA?

 

[rkaz]

Thankfully nobody suggested "go the DO route" yet, as a GPA of less than 2.0 would be an insult to those institutions. LawyerDoc told you what to do and what to retake to eventually stand a chance there. With a GPA < 2.0 and possibly a transcript from a virtual college, DO schools would be happy to put your file straight into the trash (that's what your application fee would be used for)...

I am going to suggest that the OP consider a career at a DO school (in the future) rather than going to the Caribbean. And no, there is absolutely no 'insult' to DO institutions here. I happen to be a DO medical student who feels like applicants with sub-par stats waste way too many years applying MD-only when they could get a perfectly good education at a DO school if they'd simply reduce their ego and apply. Sure, I have some grievances myself at the AOA, but the idea of people not going to medical school at all due to the initials is just silly. I am very satisfied with the education I'm currently receiving.

Now as far as the OP considering the DO route... I am not at all suggesting that the OP will have any shot this year. On the contrary, I think it will take at least a few years of retaking courses to get the GPA enough to have a realistic shot. If the OP has the drive and motivation to do this to become a physician, all the power to him/her. If the OP isn't able to spend a few years at this point to dig himself/herself out of this hole, then the OP might want to consider other faster track health-careers, like nursing etc.

Why do I feel the OP would be better off applying to DO in a few years rather than going to a non-big 3 Caribbean school? (Let's be realistic here, the OP isn't going to get into a big 3 Caribbean school with those stats.) Because with the OP's current GPA, I'm concerned about his/her ability to get through medical school. It makes no sense whatsoever to go to the Caribbean and fail out (and becoming thousands of dollars in debt), or to get through 2 years of Caribbean school and find you can't pass your boards. Or worst case, it would be awful to graduate from a Caribbean school with barely-passing grades only to be over 100k in debt and not be able to get a US residency.

I think it would make much more sense for the OP to actually spend time retaking classes he/she did poorly in previously to get that GPA up. MD schools are really out of the question, since the GPA is dramatically low, and MD schools would average the two grades. However, since DO schools replace the grade for the second grade of a retaken course, the OP could pull up that GPA much faster. If the OP was willing to spend, let's say, another 2 years taking retaking classes (especially science courses) on a full-time basis, that GPA can be radically improved. Furthermore, if the OP can show consistently that he/she can do well in science coursework, then he/she can enter a DO program with much more confidence in his/her ability to get through medical school. I'd say this is a much safer bet than considering a Caribbean school, especially with the OP's current stats. I know pre-meds think that getting into medical school is a major accomplishment... and yes, it is... but getting through medical school is a much bigger task ahead. If someone hasn't yet shown ability to handle rigorous upper-division undergraduate science coursework, then being a medical student is a huge risk, as the attrition rate would be very high. US medical schools (MD and DO) do their best to pick high-achieving applicants who would be successful (to minimize the risk of dropout), but this same protective barrier may not be there at all international schools. Thus the OP would be best suited to prove his/her ability to succeed in undergraduate coursework to prepare himself/herself for a US medical school rather than jumping to a costly international school without preparing for such a rigorous courseload. So no, this is absolutely no dig at all at DO schools, as I regard my own DO school highly (and trust me guys, medical school is a mind-numbing amount of work - nothing like the undergrad years). While the OP doesn't have a shot at DO schools now, he/she may be able to apply two years from now if he/she can prove ability to handle coursework.

And OP, I say all this to you, since I am like you in many ways. Although I was fortunate to get accepted to medical school this year as I had decent stats, I did substantially worse than I could have - as I am also someone who wears my heart on my sleeve. Romantic breakups were extremely destructive to my stats, so I completely understand. However, if medical school is a dream of yours, you have to be willing to spend the next few years of your life just turning yourself around. (You also have to learn how to handle breakups without completely falling apart next time.) Retaking courses will be a long tedious process. If this is just too much for you, then consider other health professions like nursing, physician's assistant, etc instead. You still have time to think about this, as you will have to retake courses to bring up your GPA anyway even for those programs.

And by the way, don't waste your time now on taking the MCAT. There's no point, especially as you need to take the time to get your cumulative GPA above a 3.3 to have a decent chance to get into DO schools. So focus on retaking classes for now (the ones with the lowest grades especially), as your MCAT score may not be valid when you apply if you take it now.

Good luck.