1 year of internship or quit?

[UniqueDoc]

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Hello:

Many people emphasize that completing 1 year of internship opens many more doors instead of completing medical school and looking for a job outside of medicine.

For a recent grad, what is the benefit of having 1 year transitional year or internship done if one doesn't want to do a residency?

Does this offer a strong benefit or is it not even worth going through if one knows they'll never practice medicine?

I know in some states 1 year of transitional year/internship MAY help get jobs at urgent care centers with completion of Step 1, 2 and 3. My question refers to other types of opportunities which are nonclinical (ie consulting, pharma, business, biotech, etc)

If anyone has input on this issue, it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

 

[psych md jd]

IME, the further down the medical yellow brick road you go, the more options you have. Opening doors is much better than closing them.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

If you're 100% certain that you will never do clinical medicine, then there probably is no benefit to an internship. Then again, if that's the case, there's probably little benefit to medical school in the first place.

The reason people are giving you this advice is that, should your other career not work out and in 5 years you decide that you might as well do clinical work, you'll find a dead end.

Programs want people with recent clinical experience. In 5 years, you'll have no recent clinical experience. Getting clinical experience once you've graduated from medical school is near impossible without a medical license. In order to get a medical license, you'll need (at least) 1 year of GME experience. Hence, if you don't get 1 year of GME experience now, and then you want to do clinical work in the future, you could fall into the infinite loop: Can't get an internship without recent clinical experience, can't get clinical experience without a license, and can't get a license without an internship.

 

[UniqueDoc]

IME, the further down the medical yellow brick road you go, the more options you have. Opening doors is much better than closing them.

Very true in this day and age.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Hello:

Many people emphasize that completing 1 year of internship opens many more doors instead of completing medical school and looking for a job outside of medicine.

For a recent grad, what is the benefit of having 1 year transitional year or internship done if one doesn't want to do a residency?

Does this offer a strong benefit or is it not even worth going through if one knows they'll never practice medicine?

I know in some states 1 year of transitional year/internship MAY help get jobs at urgent care centers with completion of Step 1, 2 and 3. My question refers to other types of opportunities which are nonclinical (ie consulting, pharma, business, biotech, etc)

If anyone has input on this issue, it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

If you're 100% certain that you will never do clinical medicine, then there probably is no benefit to an internship. Then again, if that's the case, there's probably little benefit to medical school in the first place.

The reason people are giving you this advice is that, should your other career not work out and in 5 years you decide that you might as well do clinical work, you'll find a dead end.

Programs want people with recent clinical experience. In 5 years, you'll have no recent clinical experience. Getting clinical experience once you've graduated from medical school is near impossible without a medical license. In order to get a medical license, you'll need (at least) 1 year of GME experience. Hence, if you don't get 1 year of GME experience now, and then you want to do clinical work in the future, you could fall into the infinite loop: Can't get an internship without recent clinical experience, can't get clinical experience without a license, and can't get a license without an internship.

Thanks for both of your responses. It's greatly appreciated. Can someone really match into residency again after being away for 5 years after internship? Have you heard of this happening?I would think that most residency programs would make them repeat the intern year if they were to be accepted.

 

[gutonc]

Thanks for both of your responses. It's greatly appreciated. Can someone really match into residency again after being away for 5 years after internship? Have you heard of this happening?I would think that most residency programs would make them repeat the intern year if they were to be accepted.

Repeating the intern year and matching into a residency are two different things. Assume you're going to start over from square one when restarting training after more than 1y away (and possibly even then). But yes, people can match if they've been in some sort of clinical setting for that time. Their options are much more limited, but they're not zero.

As with most questions like this, it would be helpfu to know where you are in the process and how serious you are about not pursuing clinical medicine. If you're a 1st year and hate it so much you're asking this question now, go see your Dean tomorrow and see how much of this semester's tuition you can get refunded when you quit. If you're a 4th year about to submit your rank list, just go for it. If you're somewhere in the middle there, do the shortest residency that won't make you want to kill yourself (IM, FM or Peds) and try to suck it up and finish it.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Repeating the intern year and matching into a residency are two different things. Assume you're going to start over from square one when restarting training after more than 1y away (and possibly even then). But yes, people can match if they've been in some sort of clinical setting for that time. Their options are much more limited, but they're not zero.

As with most questions like this, it would be helpfu to know where you are in the process and how serious you are about not pursuing clinical medicine. If you're a 1st year and hate it so much you're asking this question now, go see your Dean tomorrow and see how much of this semester's tuition you can get refunded when you quit. If you're a 4th year about to submit your rank list, just go for it. If you're somewhere in the middle there, do the shortest residency that won't make you want to kill yourself (IM, FM or Peds) and try to suck it up and finish it.

Thanks for the well thought out response. Finishing residency is the most secure way to do things, but doesn't it take some degree of interest/commitment to get through those years? Isn't it transparent when residents are just trying to do any "easier" residencies just to get through? I mean, it's much easier said than done, but obviously the best choice it seems.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, as others have said, it's difficult to advise you based on the limited info you've provided. Besides some info about your current training status and future career plans/interests, it would also be helpful to have some info about your current financial/family situation. Obviously you will have a lot more options for alternative career paths if you're 25, single, and in no debt than you will if you're 45 and married with four dependents, a six figure med school loan, and a six figure mortgage.

What I will say to you regarding your second question is this: residency is not like real life practice. In the same way that working with standardized patients is "artificial" and not like seeing real patients, working in a residency setting is "artificial" and not like being an attending. Even if you absolutely hate residency, which plenty of people do, it does not inherently mean that you will be unable to find a practice setting afterward that you like, or can at least tolerate, once you're an attending. So assuming you're like most med students (young, but in a lot of debt and with no other marketable skills besides what you'd need to be hired for a residency), my recommendation is that you go ahead and apply for residency unless you have a very well-thought out alternative plan. As for how you'll get through it, you just take it one day at a time, work hard, and keep your head down. In spite of what you might think from reading this forum sometimes, the vast majority of residents finish their training without incident and do not get screwed over by vindictive PDs who are out to get them and make their lives miserable.

 

[HooliganSnail]

Hello:

Many people emphasize that completing 1 year of internship opens many more doors instead of completing medical school and looking for a job outside of medicine.

For a recent grad, what is the benefit of having 1 year transitional year or internship done if one doesn't want to do a residency?

Does this offer a strong benefit or is it not even worth going through if one knows they'll never practice medicine?

I know in some states 1 year of transitional year/internship MAY help get jobs at urgent care centers with completion of Step 1, 2 and 3. My question refers to other types of opportunities which are nonclinical (ie consulting, pharma, business, biotech, etc)

If anyone has input on this issue, it would be greatly appreciated. Cheers!

You should complete the internship.

1. Most states require completion of internship to be a fully licensed physician. It is not just about passing Step 3. You can not work at an urgent care without a permanent unrestricted physician's license.

2. You might realize that while you hated medical school, being a physician is something you might actually like

3. Having and MD or DO is not that valuable if you have never been a physician. The doors it would open have everything to do with being a licensed physician and having the experience of healthcare and a physician's point of view.

Internship is a huge growth period, but it seems just plain stupid to have pain all those years of medical school and to never actually complete becoming a physician

 

[UniqueDoc]

If you're 100% certain that you will never do clinical medicine, then there probably is no benefit to an internship. Then again, if that's the case, there's probably little benefit to medical school in the first place.

The reason people are giving you this advice is that, should your other career not work out and in 5 years you decide that you might as well do clinical work, you'll find a dead end.

Programs want people with recent clinical experience. In 5 years, you'll have no recent clinical experience. Getting clinical experience once you've graduated from medical school is near impossible without a medical license. In order to get a medical license, you'll need (at least) 1 year of GME experience. Hence, if you don't get 1 year of GME experience now, and then you want to do clinical work in the future, you could fall into the infinite loop: Can't get an internship without recent clinical experience, can't get clinical experience without a license, and can't get a license without an internship.

This certainly makes a lot of sense. An internship seems more useful than no internship if one wants to chance of possibly going back to medicine one day.

Have you ever had the experience of knowing someone who completed only 1 year of internship but then years later down the road was able to return to clinical medicine?

 

[UniqueDoc]

You should complete the internship.

1. Most states require completion of internship to be a fully licensed physician. It is not just about passing Step 3. You can not work at an urgent care without a permanent unrestricted physician's license.

2. You might realize that while you hated medical school, being a physician is something you might actually like

3. Having and MD or DO is not that valuable if you have never been a physician. The doors it would open have everything to do with being a licensed physician and having the experience of healthcare and a physician's point of view.

Internship is a huge growth period, but it seems just plain stupid to have pain all those years of medical school and to never actually complete becoming a physician

Thanks for your reply. It certainly sounds that way, but what if that same person felt the same during third and fourth year of medical school (ie just finished the degree without really being passionate about it)? If someone hated third year, will they probably hate internship as well? Does it make sense to sacrifice another 3 or 4 years doing something that they are not interested in? I agree with the point that once residency is completed, one might find that they actually like medicine...but it certainly would take many years for that to happen. Delayed gratification would probably be the way to describe it.

 

[UniqueDoc]

OP, as others have said, it's difficult to advise you based on the limited info you've provided. Besides some info about your current training status and future career plans/interests, it would also be helpful to have some info about your current financial/family situation. Obviously you will have a lot more options for alternative career paths if you're 25, single, and in no debt than you will if you're 45 and married with four dependents, a six figure med school loan, and a six figure mortgage.

What I will say to you regarding your second question is this: residency is not like real life practice. In the same way that working with standardized patients is "artificial" and not like seeing real patients, working in a residency setting is "artificial" and not like being an attending. Even if you absolutely hate residency, which plenty of people do, it does not inherently mean that you will be unable to find a practice setting afterward that you like, or can at least tolerate, once you're an attending. So assuming you're like most med students (young, but in a lot of debt and with no other marketable skills besides what you'd need to be hired for a residency), my recommendation is that you go ahead and apply for residency unless you have a very well-thought out alternative plan. As for how you'll get through it, you just take it one day at a time, work hard, and keep your head down. In spite of what you might think from reading this forum sometimes, the vast majority of residents finish their training without incident and do not get screwed over by vindictive PDs who are out to get them and make their lives miserable.

Thanks for your answer. It is really appreciated and makes a lot of sense. I private messaged you with more information.

 

[atomi]

Thanks for the well thought out response. Finishing residency is the most secure way to do things, but doesn't it take some degree of interest/commitment to get through those years?

Kind of, but you'll be on auto-pilot. Show up, do you job well, study when needed, and before you'll know it 3 years have passed and you don't know what happened. Just keep going.

 

[NotAProgDirector]

Did you really find no field of clinical medicine you enjoyed?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Did you really find no field of clinical medicine you enjoyed?

Agree with this...one thing that has struck me about medicine is that it literally has something for just about every possible personality type. As long as you have a general interest in biological science and 'helping people', there's almost certainly going to be something that you'd like to do (or at least could tolerate doing) in medicine.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Did you really find no field of clinical medicine you enjoyed?

No. Not at all. However, clinical rotations are short and don't really provide adequate exposure to different specialties. It's just a very difficult situation to be in. Especially when training in a city I hate with no support system.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Agree with this...one thing that has struck me about medicine is that it literally has something for just about every possible personality type. As long as you have a general interest in biological science and 'helping people', there's almost certainly going to be something that you'd like to do (or at least could tolerate doing) in medicine.

I agree with you. However, being an international graduate I don't have many options open to me. Especially with lower board scores. If I could pick and choose a residency specialty and location, I would be set. However realistically, even if I found a specialty I love, I would have to make sacrifices and move to wherever I match. I guess if I loved medicine enough it wouldn't matter. Sometimes I wish I did, but sadly I don't.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Kind of, but you'll be on auto-pilot. Show up, do you job well, study when needed, and before you'll know it 3 years have passed and you don't know what happened. Just keep going.

I really wish I could complete a program in a city I liked. That would at least make things more tolerable. Not liking residency combined with no support system is really tough.

 

[Mad Jack]

You'll need an internship under your belt for many pharma positions that require a medical license. Keep that one in mind at least.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree with you. However, being an international graduate I don't have many options open to me. Especially with lower board scores. If I could pick and choose a residency specialty and location, I would be set. However realistically, even if I found a specialty I love, I would have to make sacrifices and move to wherever I match. I guess if I loved medicine enough it wouldn't matter. Sometimes I wish I did, but sadly I don't.

Just try to get a prelim med or surgery year in a city you like, there's usually plenty of extra spots floating about. It may not be categorical, but it opens some doors and could probably get you a spot in a place you want to be for the year you need to earn a medical license.

Edit: Ah, you're an IMG- might be tougher than just a single year for you to obtain a license in many states. That really complicates things, as one year often isn't enough.

 

[gutonc]

Edit: Ah, you're an IMG- might be tougher than just a single year for you to obtain a license in many states. That really complicates things, as one year often isn't enough.

Beat me to it. As an IMG, you need 2-3 years of training in all but WI and GA (I think) in order to get a license. Given that, either sign up for a full residency or call it quits now.

 

[j4pac]

I really wish I could complete a program in a city I liked. That would at least make things more tolerable. Not liking residency combined with no support system is really tough.

Not as tough as starving to death while being homeless. Suck it up and get through your training.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Not as tough as starving to death while being homeless. Suck it up and get through your training.

Are you implying that completing residency is the only way not to starve to death and be homeless?

 

[UniqueDoc]

Beat me to it. As an IMG, you need 2-3 years of training in all but WI and GA (I think) in order to get a license. Given that, either sign up for a full residency or call it quits now.

Yeah, I would need at least 2-3 years of training. Also many jobs want board certified physicians too. *sigh* I appreciate the advice though. Had I been an AMG I think things would be a lot easier but there no going back at this point and I need to decide what my next steps are moving forward.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Beat me to it. As an IMG, you need 2-3 years of training in all but WI and GA (I think) in order to get a license. Given that, either sign up for a full residency or call it quits now.

Agreed! Very tough call. We all know what the safer option is. I just don't know if I'll take it.

 

[j4pac]

Are you implying that completing residency is the only way not to starve to death and be homeless?

Are you looking for empathy or actual advise. Quitting residency is about the foolish thing imaginable. If you hated medicine...ok I could buy that. But feeling unsupported? Time to wake up...you're not a child anymore.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Are you looking for empathy or actual advise. Quitting residency is about the foolish thing imaginable. If you hated medicine...ok I could buy that. But feeling unsupported? Time to wake up...you're not a child anymore.

Advice. If you are here looking to tell people to "suck it up" I'm not interested in your responses. Yes, as I said a social support system is important. Residency training is grueling and is it a crime to want to have a social life? As someone without family it is important to have a circle of friends/people who have time to to socialize outside of work.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Advice. If you are here looking to tell people to "suck it up" I'm not interested in your responses. Yes, as I said a social support system is important. Residency training is grueling and is it a crime to want to have a social life? As someone without family it is important to have a circle of friends/people who have time to to socialize outside of work.

You can't make friends at the new place you'd live at for residency? It's not like you'll have a ton of free time during your training...

 

[UniqueDoc]

You can't make friends at the new place you'd live at for residency? It's not like you'll have a ton of free time during your training...

In this particular place it's pretty hard. Everyone is married/living with an SO or has kids and has commitments during their spare time. Pretty much leaves a single resident alone.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

In this particular place it's pretty hard. Everyone is married/living with an SO or has kids and has commitments during their spare time. Pretty much leaves a single resident alone.

Have you tried meeting period outside of work? Church, if you are into that maybe? Online dating? Find singles groups. If it's a town of some size, you should be able to find something. I take it you are in med school now. Residency can be in fun places. You don't have to be in only one town or area of the country to be happy and get through your 3+ years.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Have you tried meeting period outside of work? Church, if you are into that maybe? Online dating? Find singles groups. If it's a town of some size, you should be able to find something. I take it you are in med school now. Residency can be in fun places. You don't have to be in only one town or area of the country to be happy and get through your 3+ years.

Agreed. These things can all work. Even though there is little free time, maybe if I'm aggressive enough about meeting people it could happen

 

[Mad Jack]

Advice. If you are here looking to tell people to "suck it up" I'm not interested in your responses. Yes, as I said a social support system is important. Residency training is grueling and is it a crime to want to have a social life? As someone without family it is important to have a circle of friends/people who have time to to socialize outside of work.

As much as people will claim it is a crime around these parts, you should try to remain a human being first, and a doctor second. If you feel like you can do both, do so. But if you think you cannot, you have to choose- be a doctor that is a shell of a human being, or be a human being that isn't a doctor. Choose wisely, as there is no right or wrong answer, only what is right for you.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Mad Jack, your comment was golden. It really spoke to me and I agree with your opinion 100 percent. Thank you for your guidance. Although staying in medicine offers financial security, there are other ways to make an okay living.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

Agreed. These things can all work. Even though there is little free time, maybe if I'm aggressive enough about meeting people it could happen

You have to put some effort into it yourself. If you go into a situation knowing you will hate it, well, you'll probably hate it. If you go into it with an open mind and think that you'll like it, well, you may just end up liking it.

Don't get caught up in just one place or only with certain people. You can always go visit them on vacations if you want. As well, you can talk on the phone. Or maybe you like video games and your friends do too and so you play online together. Whatever it is, you can keep those friendships alive while you make new ones too.

 

[Mad Jack]

You have to put some effort into it yourself. If you go into a situation knowing you will hate it, well, you'll probably hate it. If you go into it with an open mind and think that you'll like it, well, you may just end up liking it.

Don't get caught up in just one place or only with certain people. You can always go visit them on vacations if you want. As well, you can talk on the phone. Or maybe you like video games and your friends do too and so you play online together. Whatever it is, you can keep those friendships alive while you make new ones too.

This is the other side of things- if you can't keep your friends through trying times, were they really your friends to begin with?

 

[UniqueDoc]

You have to put some effort into it yourself. If you go into a situation knowing you will hate it, well, you'll probably hate it. If you go into it with an open mind and think that you'll like it, well, you may just end up liking it.

Don't get caught up in just one place or only with certain people. You can always go visit them on vacations if you want. As well, you can talk on the phone. Or maybe you like video games and your friends do too and so you play online together. Whatever it is, you can keep those friendships alive while you make new ones too.

I agree with your statement. But what if you had a terrible gut feeling about it upon matching, but decided to do it anyway. The match is done, and cannot be undone. The logic at the moment of rank order submission was to have a training position rather than not. Then you went in, tried to go in with a positive attitude, tried to make friends and tried to look forward to going to work everyday for months but it was pure hell. Does it make sense to go and complete the year and just stick it out another 6 months or is it better to call it quits now? As an IMG does it make sense to finish the year if it won't get me a license?

 

[UniqueDoc]

This is the other side of things- if you can't keep your friends through trying times, were they really your friends to begin with?

Yes, although friends are so important I've realized that most will put themselves first. Then their families/significant others. Friends come third, if there is any time. The circle of friends in one's mid twenties and early thirties really starts to decline. It's even harder to make new friends after this point. Most of my friends are people I've met many years ago and have managed to keep in touch with over the years. Some of them have drifted away very recently. I've personally experienced troubles with friendships due to my being in medicine. However this could also happen in other demanding careers which take up a lot of one's free time. I've largely been absent for weddings of best friends, family reunions, etc and this has made me the one who is "too busy/doesn't care". People just don't understand unless they are in medicine/close to someone who is.

 

[UniqueDoc]

You have to put some effort into it yourself. If you go into a situation knowing you will hate it, well, you'll probably hate it. If you go into it with an open mind and think that you'll like it, well, you may just end up liking it.

Don't get caught up in just one place or only with certain people. You can always go visit them on vacations if you want. As well, you can talk on the phone. Or maybe you like video games and your friends do too and so you play online together. Whatever it is, you can keep those friendships alive while you make new ones too.

Also, getting caught up in one place/with certain people certainly is a recipe for disaster/disappointment. In medicine, especially as an IMG, one can't really pick and choose where to live and do residency. Vacations will always be there, and hopefully the worthwhile friends will be too. This has all made me realize how important living in a desirable place is to get through the rigors of training.

 

[gutonc]

I agree with your statement. But what if you had a terrible gut feeling about it upon matching, but decided to do it anyway. The match is done, and cannot be undone. The logic at the moment of rank order submission was to have a training position rather than not. Then you went in, tried to go in with a positive attitude, tried to make friends and tried to look forward to going to work everyday for months but it was pure hell. Does it make sense to go and complete the year and just stick it out another 6 months or is it better to call it quits now? As an IMG does it make sense to finish the year if it won't get me a license?

Could you be more honest with where you are in this process and what exactly the issue(s) is/are? That would make giving you useful advice much easier. In fact, if you'd been more open with your OP, this probably could have been sorted in 1 or 2 replies.

Feel free to keep being vague for "privacy" (Protip...nobody cares who you are) but you're only going to get useful replies if you are honest about the situation.

 

[Danbo1957]

Lot's of whining son, suck it up do the residency-- you're going to be a doctor. Or, go dig ditches.

 

[ThoracicGuy]

I agree with your statement. But what if you had a terrible gut feeling about it upon matching, but decided to do it anyway. The match is done, and cannot be undone. The logic at the moment of rank order submission was to have a training position rather than not. Then you went in, tried to go in with a positive attitude, tried to make friends and tried to look forward to going to work everyday for months but it was pure hell. Does it make sense to go and complete the year and just stick it out another 6 months or is it better to call it quits now? As an IMG does it make sense to finish the year if it won't get me a license?

If you want to put all the time and effort and money that you spent to get your degree to some sort of use, then yes, its worth it to stay and finish. You give yourself more options. If you get boarded, you can do medicine or not. Maybe you just do locums work and make alot of money and then stop and do whatever you want. There are many possibilities.

That terrible gut feeling? That's just you going into it with a negative opinion. Anyone can make just about any place bearable for 3-4 years. You'll be so busy in the hospital that the other things aren't going to be all that important. You'll make friends with the people you work with and those in other residencies at the same hospital. Even in some of the smallest towns that have programs, you'll find things to do.

 

[UniqueDoc]

Yeah. Being boarded offers financial security and the option to continue with a stable career if I have a change of heart. Some sacrifices now will offer more options in the future. I understand that, but also don't know if I could put it into action. I guess I have to want this enough to get through several years of training otherwise nothing can keep me there.

If you want to put all the time and effort and money that you spent to get your degree to some sort of use, then yes, its worth it to stay and finish. You give yourself more options. If you get boarded, you can do medicine or not. Maybe you just do locums work and make alot of money and then stop and do whatever you want. There are many possibilities.

That terrible gut feeling? That's just you going into it with a negative opinion. Anyone can make just about any place bearable for 3-4 years. You'll be so busy in the hospital that the other things aren't going to be all that important. You'll make friends with the people you work with and those in other residencies at the same hospital. Even in some of the smallest towns that have programs, you'll find things to do.