10th month elective during third year - what to do?

[tony montana]

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hey everyone,

So my first elective is on the 10th month of third year. I want to go into a surgical subspecialty, but all aways I know of require you are in your senior year or have completed general surgery core (which comes one block after this elective of mine).

So what is the best thing to do with this elective? 😕

Maybe a Gen. surgery elective at my school? even though I have not had gen. surgery yet? maybe it will help me do better once I get to general surgery?

better options?

Anyway, thanks for any help 😕

 

[Biscuit799]

hey everyone,

So my first elective is on the 10th month of third year. I want to go into a surgical subspecialty, but all aways I know of require you are in your senior year or have completed general surgery core (which comes one block after this elective of mine).

So what is the best thing to do with this elective? 😕

Maybe a Gen. surgery elective at my school? even though I have not had gen. surgery yet? maybe it will help me do better once I get to general surgery?

better options?

Anyway, thanks for any help 😕

Do you have any required fourth year rotations (i.e. Emergency Med, Geriatrics... my school does)? If so, that time would be a great opportunity to knock one of those out, especially if you've already taken medicine.

If not, then I'd probably consider doing any elective that interests you, but isn't surgical. I know my school has limitations on the number of electives that can be in any one specialty, so you kind of have to fill up your time with "other" stuff. For example, if you want to go into neurosurg, you could do neurology. if you want to go into pediatric surgery, you could do a peds elective. If it's trauma surgery you're after, go hang out in the ER for a month.

 

[tony montana]

Do you have any required fourth year rotations (i.e. Emergency Med, Geriatrics... my school does)? If so, that time would be a great opportunity to knock one of those out, especially if you've already taken medicine.

If not, then I'd probably consider doing any elective that interests you, but isn't surgical. I know my school has limitations on the number of electives that can be in any one specialty, so you kind of have to fill up your time with "other" stuff. For example, if you want to go into neurosurg, you could do neurology. if you want to go into pediatric surgery, you could do a peds elective. If it's trauma surgery you're after, go hang out in the ER for a month.

We don't have a limit on the number of rotations in one specialty and we don't have a 4th year requirement that has to be done with an elective.

I don't mind using that elective for a surgery rotation, my concern is will I be able to handle it? I mean I will have all my 3rd year cores (except for surgery) by then, but do you think not having had surgery will make that elective useless?

Thanks in advance


BTW: that was funny about the dihydrogen monoxide 🙂

 

[drfunktacular]

I'm in roughly this situation (I've had surgery already), and I'm doing an ENT rotation right now. I would HIGHLY recommend it... ENT's tend to be pretty laid-back people, happy to have students around, happy to teach, happy to "share the wealth" of minor cases and office procedures. Plus (depending on your school's department), you get to learn a complete head and neck exam with mirrors and speculae and so on; this is something that I think EVERY medical student should have to learn. What does any PCP spend >50% of their office time doing? Head and neck exams for OM, sinusitis, etc, and after seeing ENT's do it, most PCP's have no idea what they're doing up there.

 

[tony montana]

I'm in roughly this situation (I've had surgery already), and I'm doing an ENT rotation right now. I would HIGHLY recommend it... ENT's tend to be pretty laid-back people, happy to have students around, happy to teach, happy to "share the wealth" of minor cases and office procedures. Plus (depending on your school's department), you get to learn a complete head and neck exam with mirrors and speculae and so on; this is something that I think EVERY medical student should have to learn. What does any PCP spend >50% of their office time doing? Head and neck exams for OM, sinusitis, etc, and after seeing ENT's do it, most PCP's have no idea what they're doing up there.

Yep, but that's my first rotation, any more ideas? 🙁

 

[drfunktacular]

Yep, but that's my first rotation, any more ideas? 🙁

Well, I was suggesting that you might inquire with a department to see if you can do a rotation without having completed the basic surgery rotation. One of the students on my current rotation hasn't done basic surgery yet, and they let her do the ENT elective anyway. There is a lot of non-surgical stuff to learn as well...

 

[smq123]

hey everyone,

So my first elective is on the 10th month of third year. I want to go into a surgical subspecialty, but all aways I know of require you are in your senior year or have completed general surgery core (which comes one block after this elective of mine).

So what is the best thing to do with this elective? 😕

Maybe a Gen. surgery elective at my school? even though I have not had gen. surgery yet? maybe it will help me do better once I get to general surgery?

If you have already had OB/gyn - do a gyn oncology rotation. It's very surgical, and it's entirely abdominal surgery - which will help prepare you for general surgery. Plus, the hellish hours of gyn onc will make general surgery look like a vacation. 😛

If you have already had internal med - do a SICU rotation. It will help make you look like a superstar when it comes to peri-op management of your surgical patients.

What general surgery electives are available at your school? And they would allow you to do a general surgery elective BEFORE your general surgery core rotation? That's kind of weird.

 

[Blade28]

If you have already had OB/gyn - do a gyn oncology rotation. It's very surgical, and it's entirely abdominal surgery - which will help prepare you for general surgery. Plus, the hellish hours of gyn onc will make general surgery look like a vacation. 😛

If you have already had internal med - do a SICU rotation. It will help make you look like a superstar when it comes to peri-op management of your surgical patients.

Totally agree with your second statement. I'm a little confused by your first, though - is Gyn Onc a tough rotation at your school, or am I just missing your sarcasm? 😕

 

[smq123]

Totally agree with your second statement. I'm a little confused by your first, though - is Gyn Onc a tough rotation at your school, or am I just missing your sarcasm? 😕

Nope, no sarcasm. Gyn Onc is notorious for being pretty tough at my school. They are usually the first to round (even beating the general surgery people), and the last to sign out. The cases in gyn onc are also often longer than some of the general surgery cases. Compared to some of the services you can do while on your general surgery rotation at my school (particularly colo-rectal or plastics), gyn onc is a lot tougher.

 

[Blade28]

Nope, no sarcasm. Gyn Onc is notorious for being pretty tough at my school. They are usually the first to round (even beating the general surgery people), and the last to sign out. The cases in gyn onc are also often longer than some of the general surgery cases. Compared to some of the services you can do while on your general surgery rotation at my school (particularly colo-rectal or plastics), gyn onc is a lot tougher.

Wow. Impressive. 👍

 

[tony montana]

If you have already had OB/gyn - do a gyn oncology rotation. It's very surgical, and it's entirely abdominal surgery - which will help prepare you for general surgery. Plus, the hellish hours of gyn onc will make general surgery look like a vacation. 😛

If you have already had internal med - do a SICU rotation. It will help make you look like a superstar when it comes to peri-op management of your surgical patients.

What general surgery electives are available at your school? And they would allow you to do a general surgery elective BEFORE your general surgery core rotation? That's kind of weird.

Wow, great options, I think. Those who know, really know

I will have OB/GYN done by then, my "general" IM is actually after my surgery rotation, but before that I will have had an IM subspecialty, would that count as having done IM by then?

I am not sure what all the available general surgery electives are, actually I thought "general surgery" was the only general surgery elective that existed...

I am not 100% sure I can have a general surgery elective before my core general surgery rotation, somehow I was under the impression I could, are you generally not allowed to everywhere else?

Anyway, if you have more options I'll be delighted to know them. Many thanks.


Tony

 

[Llenroc]

Umm.. Why not do something easy? 3rd year is pretty rough. I wouldn't go out of my way to schedule these 6:00 a.m. to 7 p.m. rotations with night call and weekend rounding as people above are suggesting. Pick some easy outpatient thing.

 

[lord_jeebus]

Gyn onc was hellish at my school, because the gyn residents were so inefficient at rounding (student completes notes before intern comes in, intern completes note before resident comes in, resident completes note...) and so slow in the OR. The cases were big enough without having to deal with the slowest closures ever. Thankfully I only had to do 3 1/2 days of it.

 

[smq123]

Gyn onc was hellish at my school, because the gyn residents were so inefficient at rounding (student completes notes before intern comes in, intern completes note before resident comes in, resident completes note...) and so slow in the OR. The cases were big enough without having to deal with the slowest closures ever. Thankfully I only had to do 3 1/2 days of it.

That does sound painful. Which is probably why my school's program doesn't put any interns on gyn onc. The gyn onc team is always a 2nd year + 4th year. Most of the 4th years are pretty good at basic surgery skills by then, so it isn't quite so bad. (Not that the gyn onc attending would have tolerated people taking their time over closures....)

I will have OB/GYN done by then, my "general" IM is actually after my surgery rotation, but before that I will have had an IM subspecialty, would that count as having done IM by then?

I am not sure what all the available general surgery electives are, actually I thought "general surgery" was the only general surgery elective that existed...

I am not 100% sure I can have a general surgery elective before my core general surgery rotation, somehow I was under the impression I could, are you generally not allowed to everywhere else?

Which IM subspecialty will you have done? And which surgical subspecialty are you interested in?

I think that, looking at your schedule, a SICU rotation would probably be the best option. Having a chance to really learn about vent settings, FEN, a-lines, codes, etc, will help. Trying to learn those things on the fly while on your general surgery rotation isn't fun.

 

[Blade28]

Gyn onc was hellish at my school, because the gyn residents were so inefficient at rounding (student completes notes before intern comes in, intern completes note before resident comes in, resident completes note...) and so slow in the OR. The cases were big enough without having to deal with the slowest closures ever. Thankfully I only had to do 3 1/2 days of it.

That's been my experience here as well.

 

[tony montana]

Which IM subspecialty will you have done? And which surgical subspecialty are you interested in?

I think that, looking at your schedule, a SICU rotation would probably be the best option. Having a chance to really learn about vent settings, FEN, a-lines, codes, etc, will help. Trying to learn those things on the fly while on your general surgery rotation isn't fun.

I can choose my IM subspecialty, which happens to be my second 3rd yr. rotation after ENT, from:

Allergy/Immunology
Cardiology
Endocrinology
Gastroenterology
GeriatricMedicine
Hematology/Oncology
Immunology
InfectiousDisease
Neurology
Pulmonary diseases
Nephrology
Rheumatology
I am interested in breast surgery


The SICU suggestion sounds very appealing, learning all those skills before surgery sound like a good thing to do. How does anyone suggest one schedule this type of rotation? does one look for local hospitals with a SICU and take it from there? thanks.

 

[tony montana]

At least one good news is I can do a general surgery elective before the gen. surgery core.

 

[Ashers]

At least one good news is I can do a general surgery elective before the gen. surgery core.

So would that be 2 months of straight up general surgery?

Apparently a few years ago, my school also had the requirement for a lot of the surgical subspecialties that one must complete the 2 months of gen surg before doing the elective in a subspecialty (according to a PGY-4 in ortho who graduated from my school). People complained, and they changed it, so now most of the pre-reqs are for M4 classes, where you have to have finished your M3 year.

I would've been screwed. I did ortho as my elective in November. I was in the half the class with the "cush" 6 months. The other half of the class starts out in the Big 3, and has to do 2 months of each: surg, peds and medicine.

Maybe you can find other people in your class to present the idea to admin to change some of the requirements, or to whatever department you want to rotate in. If I had to have taken surgery before taking my ortho elective, I definitely would've chosen a different track. However, I had time on OB/gyn to adjust to being in the OR.