Last edited:
.
- Thread starter license43
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2010
- Messages
- 74,976
- Reaction score
- 120,313
This is not something I ever see on an app form.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,257
- Reaction score
- 5,119
Will you get the extra time from NBOME/NBME? I know they’re pretty stingy with what they give accommodations for. The only way I can think of this hurting you is if you get used to the extra time in in-school exams, but don’t have it when boards roll around.
I have really bad insomnia sometimes. I’ve just barely passed exams I know I could have gotten a B+ or better on from lack of sleep. Thankfully, I still pass but it can be disheartening to study all the time and have your body betray you like that.
And if I take medicine for it, I wake up groggy and unable to concentrate.
I’ve personally tried to get used to it (just not being able to sleep when I need to) because I was worried if I told someone they would be like “doctors have to go without sleep sometimes, deal with it”.
I’m just making assumptions though. I know plenty of people who get exceptions for this or that. Just scared to ask for myself. Sucks when I’m not doing as good as I feel like I could.
Honestly worried about not sleeping the day or two before boards and that’s months away. Thinking about staying up for a few days straight or something and running myself so I ragged that I basically force myself to sleep before the boards.
And if I take medicine for it, I wake up groggy and unable to concentrate.
I’ve personally tried to get used to it (just not being able to sleep when I need to) because I was worried if I told someone they would be like “doctors have to go without sleep sometimes, deal with it”.
I’m just making assumptions though. I know plenty of people who get exceptions for this or that. Just scared to ask for myself. Sucks when I’m not doing as good as I feel like I could.
Honestly worried about not sleeping the day or two before boards and that’s months away. Thinking about staying up for a few days straight or something and running myself so I ragged that I basically force myself to sleep before the boards.
D
deleted480308
Will you need extra time to round on your patients? To write notes? Can you scrub in?
- Joined
- May 5, 2016
- Messages
- 228
- Reaction score
- 351
If only there were a "taking Adderall" checkbox that would impact chances.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 3,222
- Reaction score
- 4,544
I often have trouble sleeping before an exam as well. I deal with it two ways. If I am ready for exam, I will take melatonin. If I don't think I am gonna be ready, I will sleep in on sunday, and just stay up till I finish or the exam comes. I will have to do 28 hour call soon enough anyway, so I figure I will just do what I need to. If I don't feel ready, there's a good reason, so I study more, and I generally do well. It sucks, but I kind of see what people are saying about handoff being worse then a doc being tired. I may not be 100% after staying up all night, but the studying I get done in that time gets me a whole lot closer to that on the test.
I use that second strategy! If I have a test on like a Monday, Saturday night I’m stay up to like 10 AM on Sunday. Get up 8 or 9 PM on a Sunday and study until my test Monday morning.
I’m usually exhausted anyway but less so than waking up early Sunday and not getting any sleep Sunday night.
- Joined
- Sep 7, 2016
- Messages
- 532
- Reaction score
- 963
I knew people who had accommodations for school testing who were denied accommodations by the NBME and NBOME. So I guess it hurt them in the sense that they got used to taking tests with a certain time limit, and suddenly at the last minute for the most important tests were forced to make do with normal time. I don't know how they ended up doing.
Other than that, I can't imagine it ever coming back to bite you unless your condition somehow interferes with clerkships.
Other than that, I can't imagine it ever coming back to bite you unless your condition somehow interferes with clerkships.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2013
- Messages
- 5,686
- Reaction score
- 6,843
Agreed, and not only that, but with the normal allotted time the school gave us was way more than the time per question on the boards.
My recommendation for OP would be to start with double time. Once he/she feels that's sufficient to do better, force yourself to do time and a half. Then force full time. Don't do this if it means compromising the grades, but you should be able to train yourself to do better. I certainly felt I needed to speed up for boards coming from normal time tests. It's a skill like any other where you need to develop it. That said, if you can know in advance that NBOME and NBME will give you double time, don't force this and imply do what you need to do so you can do well.
Depends. Do you plan to apply for accommodations when taking your board exams? If you do, you pretty much HAVE to have been granted accommodations from your school (as you have now) or NBOME will deny it. And even if you have been granted accommodations, I believe a paper trail with medical diagnoses must be part of your application to NBOME. So if there is a CHANCE you will want the accommodations, it's best (required) to already have them from the school, and perhaps even accumulating the required materials for the NBOME.
However, I believe there is a "mark" of some sort on your records from the NBOME that your exam was taken under nonstandard conditions. I would talk to one of your Deans about that, and whether it will have any influence on residency applications.
A student I had in the past (who has now finished residency) was granted accommodations for a documented issue, and what he did was over the course of the first two years of school, he weaned himself off the extra time. By the time he got to his boards, timing was no longer an issue. Of course I have had lots of students who were granted various accommodations over the years, and I honestly do not think the extra time was "helpful" in the overall big picture.
- Joined
- Mar 6, 2014
- Messages
- 3,049
- Reaction score
- 10,373
Forgive my ignorance, but what exactly is a legitimate reason someone should be given extra time on an exam? I can't think of any to tell you the truth.
It is things like dyslexia, sometimes ADD or ADHD. Unfortunately, these are also things that are very difficult to diagnose and prove, so the diagnosis it largely a professional's opinion in many cases. I think for every correct diagnosis of a medical student with one of these conditions, there are many more who are incorrectly diagnosed.
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2013
- Messages
- 3,222
- Reaction score
- 4,544
I don't really know how you give extra time on the comlex anyway. Its already like 9 hours, would a test center even stay open long enough for you to take it over 12?
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 544
- Reaction score
- 685
Might behoove you to see a sleep doc. I went to my primary for concerns about having OSA and he set me up with a sleep study and sleep doc consult. My sleep doc has been really helpful in making sure I have what I need to get to sleep when I need it, without feeling like $5 in rusty nickels the next day. If you've tried ambien, etc maybe talk to your doc about zaleplon. Time to effect is ~20 min and half-life is roughly 1 hour. Almost impossible to wake up hungover from it. But you can always keep going with what you've been doing if it works, I guess. Just take it from someone that gave themselves the absolute worst sleeping habits from years of working stupid sleep-disruptive jobs: if you don't do anything to make it better, it WILL eventually destroy you. Good luck.
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2014
- Messages
- 6,004
- Reaction score
- 4,360
I have dyslexia and I have never used extra time to take any exam... I don't think that is a legitimate reason. Can't comment about ADD/ADHD.
- Joined
- Jul 23, 2013
- Messages
- 3,257
- Reaction score
- 5,119
I knew people in undergrad who had accommodations for dyslexia; it’s often considered legitimate. I don’t know the NBME or NBOME’s view on it.
I know I have several classmates who had accommodations (extra time and/or separate space) for in-school exams. I don’t know why they had them because it’s none of my business, or if they ended up having them for boards or not.
They do it over the course of two days. This is why it is such a big deal to get accommodations, and if you do special arrangements must be made so the testing center can accommodate you as well (which also limits the dates you can take it). Along with the special indication with your score that it was taken under nonstandard conditions, this adds yet another reason many people choose not to pursue accommodations. Also the NBOME is not exactly quick with the decisions either.
I think the NBOME's view is you have to have a proven medical diagnosis with a history of accommodations at the very least. They don't give out accommodations very often, so it's safe to say the bar is high. Your school also has paperwork to fill out regarding the accommodations they have provided and the evidence used to make the decision to provide those. Basically you have to have a very compelling case.
- Joined
- Dec 16, 2017
- Messages
- 5
- Reaction score
- 2
I now get accomodations for suffering a detached retina that left me with partial blindness in one eye. When speed reading, words may dissapear, drastically affecting my score. I have yet to use my accomodation, but I would've graduated with a much higher GPA than a 3.66 if I'd been proactive about getting an evaluation through my University.
- Joined
- Apr 17, 2015
- Messages
- 235
- Reaction score
- 224
I've never seen this information anywhere? So even if the accommodations were for say extra break time would one be better off not applying for accommodations in fear of it affecting their residency app?
I have never heard of extra break time as an accommodation (not saying it doesn't exist, I just never heard of it), but I think you have to weigh the pros and cons. If you feel there is an absolute genuine need, and you are at a disadvantage without the accommodation compared to your fellow students, then the higher score probably offsets the "nonstandard" conditions notation (although I would probably be prepared to explain this and why is would not affect your job). However, I believe in many of the cases I have seen the accommodations made no difference in the performance, but the psychological crutch can be hard to overcome.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
The Sophie Currier case, for those of you who have been around SDN a long long time.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
Yeah, not sure about the Osteo exams, but don't expect to get extra time from the NBME unless you lawyer up, and the Steps can be sometimes difficult. I remember the first half of the second day of Step 3 being particularly hard.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
The first thing a sleep med doc worth his salt is going to say is "stop with the insane overnight studying and give yourself normal consistent wake up times".
- Joined
- May 21, 2014
- Messages
- 544
- Reaction score
- 685
Right, I left out a lot of details. She basically took a thorough history (and I haven't pulled an all nighter since early undergrad) and determined from my nearly decade of working 24 hour shifts and exclusively nights thereafter that I had a sleep rhythm disturbance. That's where the zaleplon comes from. Then after a home sleep study, she determined my minor OSA isn't helping. So with CPAP and probably only a week of zaleplon I'm back to normal. She did a good job.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
Ah, the rare appropriate use of the medication. Practically a zebra in its own right.
Interesting, hadn't heard of that, although I would agree that is a legitimate reason for extra break time (although I would not advise having a baby in medical school based on what I have seen, but that is another story).
It does bring up another point, which is how hard one is willing to fight. The person in that story "won", but at what price? She certainly helped out future people in similar situations, but may have hurt herself in the process. I have had a student who tried something similar, but without nearly as strong of a case, and was on a path to completely derail their medical school career because they were not going to take no for an answer. Based on the above case alone, people should be aware going in that these organizations have the means and the will to take this as far as they need to in court, regardless of the final outcome.
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
Currier seemed like a professional trainwreck back when the was dealing this the lawsuit. IIRC, she eventually did pass step 2, but it was on the 3rd attempt, which likely "blackballed" her more than any negative publicity from the lawsuit. However, I do honestly think that the ruling was correct and reasonable in the end.
The price I was referring to is all the energy (and perhaps money?) that is required to fight such a thing. When I read the story, the first thing I thought was the board exam failure surely hurt her more than any lawsuit. Perhaps the personality required to take on such a case may not have endeared her to residency programs either. The part of her story I couldn't figure out was how she claimed she had her first choice of residencies prior to the denial of accommodations -- how does that work???
- Joined
- Nov 16, 2010
- Messages
- 7,139
- Reaction score
- 11,304
She matched prior to having a passing score on step 2. I'm not sure if you're allowed to do that nowadays.