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[CoomassieBlue57]

How about all the new schools COCA approves be required to create a 1 for 1 student to residency position, instead of complaining about an existing ACGME process that produced the exact same results as it did last year?

 

[GypsyHummus]

Can’t they scramble into unfilled Family Med positions?

Just set your sights lower DO students, there are plenty of spaces in community IM and FM programs.

 

[Giovanotto]

How about all the new schools COCA approves be required to create a 1 for 1 student to residency position, instead of complaining about an existing ACGME process that produced the exact same results as it did last year?

That would be a worse scenario, and a poor solution that only pushes the problem further down the pipeline. How about we just pump the breaks on opening new schools or class size expansion.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Pump the brakes on COCA and the offshore schools. This is very concerning--more stress on top of the already stressful situation of medical school!

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

As someone who will graduate with 500k in debt this entire situation is terrifying. It's making me rethink applying to peds/ pm&r and just applying to FM (not that there is anything wrong with that!). I'm not like all these self-absorbed rich people in my class who have 0 debt. This is my only option to pay off such massive debt. If I was a pre-med again I would tell myself not to take the DO acceptance.

I feel you entirely. The DO route was never great--and its only getting worse. How were you to know? Just fight hard, colleague.

 

[rg2o3]

Can’t they scramble into unfilled Family Med positions?

Just set your sights lower DO students, there are plenty of spaces in community IM and FM programs.

FM/IM here I come!!!! Going to be gunning for it from day 1!

 

[BorntobeDO?]

FM/IM here I come!!!! Going to be gunning for it from day 1!

To late sucker, I have been gunning since day 1 4 realz (see sig)

 

[DoctorDOWell]

oh the gloom and doom of SDN

all us DO students should've just gone to PA or NP programs, right? #PCPsarcasm

 

[rg2o3]

To late sucker, I have been gunning since day 1 4 realz (see sig)

Damn. I'm not even attending then...haha

 

[Cath Up]

Can’t they scramble into unfilled Family Med positions?

Just set your sights lower DO students, there are plenty of spaces in community IM and FM programs.

While this statement may be more realistic in the future, I don't think there are many DOs that want this to happen. If we can, shouldn't we try to prevent it from happening?

 

[SLC]

The ACGME match rate was the same this year as it was last year, which was a multi-year high mark.

How many of the people counted in the unmatched Talley were pulled from the ACGME match due to matching AOA. I honestly don’t know, but I bet it’s not 0%

What was the USMD match rate this year BTW, it’s usually in the lower 90’s if I recall correctly.

The doom and gloom is a bit melodramatic people; nothing seems to have changed this year; it certainly hasn’t gotten worse.

 

[Rekt]

The ACGME match rate was the same this year as it was last year, which was a multi-year high mark.

How many of the people counted in the unmatched Talley were pulled from the ACGME match due to matching AOA. I honestly don’t know, but I bet it’s not 0%

What was the USMD match rate this year BTW, it’s usually in the lower 90’s if I recall correctly.

The doom and gloom is a bit melodramatic people; nothing seems to have changed this year; it certainly hasn’t gotten worse.

Pretty sure it was like 94.5%, where it always is. I also thought the 81% did NOT include people who were pulled from ACGME because of an AOA match

 

[SLC]

Pretty sure it was like 94.5%, where it always is. I also thought the 81% did NOT include people who were pulled from ACGME because of an AOA match

I honestly don’t know about the ACGME match statistic (whether it counts people pulled due to an AOA match).

Either way, if nothing changes in the AGME match rate for MD’s or DO’s, then the implication that things are worse is a fallacy; by definition they are the same, no?

 

[GypsyHummus]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

This is the equivalent of a dental student complaining that they have to do General Dentistry when they wanted Endo or Ortho. Y’all knew what you were signing up for. There is nothing wrong with FM, in fact, it’s one of the most desirable fields from an employer perspective.

 

[Rekt]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

This is the equivalent of a dental student complaining that they have to do General Dentistry when they wanted Endo or Ortho. Y’all knew what you were signing up for. There is nothing wrong with FM, in fact, it’s one of the most desirable fields from an employer perspective.

That's not a similar analogy, at all.

 

[DokterMom]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

This is the equivalent of a dental student complaining that they have to do General Dentistry when they wanted Endo or Ortho. Y’all knew what you were signing up for. There is nothing wrong with FM, in fact, it’s one of the most desirable fields from an employer perspective.

You mean they were serious?

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

That's 400k per 3 year residency program. It won't happen. Once 2020 hit, we go from 80% match and 20% scramble to 80% match and minimal scramble at best.

You aren't including the AOA residencies that haven't been ACGME accredited yet in that 80%. So somewhere in that remaining 20% will be a mix of DOs and MDs matching at these places. My guess is that those places will be >50% or more DO.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

This is the equivalent of a dental student complaining that they have to do General Dentistry when they wanted Endo or Ortho. Y’all knew what you were signing up for. There is nothing wrong with FM, in fact, it’s one of the most desirable fields from an employer perspective.

Kinda not the same--because gen dentistry is obtainable to all graduates and post-graduate training is NOT required for dentists. But yes, I suppose all DOs should just apply primary care in future.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

Because not all DO schools have that mission statement.

 

[deleted407021]

The sky is falling and it’s on fire so now we’re on fire and everything is terrible

 

[GypsyHummus]

its the 4th thing from the AACOM under: read more about Osteopathic Medicine:

What is Osteopathic Medicine

"
Strong Foundation in Primary Care
The osteopathic medical profession has a proud heritage of producing primary care practitioners. In fact, the mission statements of the majority of osteopathic medical schools state plainly that their purpose is the production of primary care physicians. Osteopathic medical tradition preaches that a strong foundation in primary care makes one a better physician, regardless of what specialty they may eventually practice.
Today, when the challenge of ensuring an adequate number of primary care physicians extends to osteopathic medicine, more than one-third of osteopathic medical school graduates choose careers in primary care. Osteopathic medicine also has a special focus on providing care in rural and urban underserved areas, allowing DOs to have a greater impact on the U.S. population's health and well-being than their numbers would suggest. Over the past three years, more than a third of osteopathic medical school graduates indicated they plan to practice in a rural or underserved area.

Osteopathic medicine is also rapidly growing! Nearly one in five medical students in the United States is attending an osteopathic medical school."


Time to Honor that Primary Care Pledge, DO students of America.

Because not all DO schools have that mission statement.

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

its the 4th thing from the AACOM under: read more about Osteopathic Medicine:

What is Osteopathic Medicine

"
Strong Foundation in Primary Care
The osteopathic medical profession has a proud heritage of producing primary care practitioners. In fact, the mission statements of the majority of osteopathic medical schools state plainly that their purpose is the production of primary care physicians. Osteopathic medical tradition preaches that a strong foundation in primary care makes one a better physician, regardless of what specialty they may eventually practice.
Today, when the challenge of ensuring an adequate number of primary care physicians extends to osteopathic medicine, more than one-third of osteopathic medical school graduates choose careers in primary care. Osteopathic medicine also has a special focus on providing care in rural and urban underserved areas, allowing DOs to have a greater impact on the U.S. population's health and well-being than their numbers would suggest. Over the past three years, more than a third of osteopathic medical school graduates indicated they plan to practice in a rural or underserved area.

Osteopathic medicine is also rapidly growing! Nearly one in five medical students in the United States is attending an osteopathic medical school."


Time to Honor that Primary Care Pledge, DO students of America.

Chill dude/ette, we all know this is just a marketing ploy. Also, we all know it is because DOs are inherently less competitive in the process. Your posts really aren't adding anything.

 

[Osminog]

its the 4th thing from the AACOM under: read more about Osteopathic Medicine:

What is Osteopathic Medicine

"
Strong Foundation in Primary Care
The osteopathic medical profession has a proud heritage of producing primary care practitioners. In fact, the mission statements of the majority of osteopathic medical schools state plainly that their purpose is the production of primary care physicians. Osteopathic medical tradition preaches that a strong foundation in primary care makes one a better physician, regardless of what specialty they may eventually practice.
Today, when the challenge of ensuring an adequate number of primary care physicians extends to osteopathic medicine, more than one-third of osteopathic medical school graduates choose careers in primary care. Osteopathic medicine also has a special focus on providing care in rural and urban underserved areas, allowing DOs to have a greater impact on the U.S. population's health and well-being than their numbers would suggest. Over the past three years, more than a third of osteopathic medical school graduates indicated they plan to practice in a rural or underserved area.

Osteopathic medicine is also rapidly growing! Nearly one in five medical students in the United States is attending an osteopathic medical school."


Time to Honor that Primary Care Pledge, DO students of America.

Are you in podiatry school yet?

 

[atomheart]

More important to me is finding out why only 80% matched.

Unless it's something different from last year, I'm just doing the same thing that the previous class did and hoping for the best.

 

[IslandStyle808]

When a vast majority of DO schools explicitly state their intention to put students into primary care in underserved areas of the country, why are said DO students becoming upset when they have to settle for primary care?

This is the equivalent of a dental student complaining that they have to do General Dentistry when they wanted Endo or Ortho. Y’all knew what you were signing up for. There is nothing wrong with FM, in fact, it’s one of the most desirable fields from an employer perspective.

Why don't you say this message to all the primary care MD schools while your at it? Yet they have all the resources and tools to match their students into derm...

 

[GypsyHummus]

Dont those MD schools place a majority of students into Primary Care as well?

I just dont understand the shock DO students get when they find out that they will have to settle for FM and IM at community programs. The profession proclaims wanting to send students into underserved areas of primary care, which are typically alot easier residencies to attain. Like I mentioned before, its like a Dental student being shocked that he has to practice general dentistry and wont be able to do an Ortho or Endo residency. There are enough spots for everyone, but people are aiming too high.

Why don't you say this message to all the primary care MD schools while your at it? Yet they have all the resources and tools to match their students into derm...

 

[GypsyHummus]

No, I already told you, Dental life.

Are you in podiatry school yet?

 

[Wjldenver]

Dont those MD schools place a majority of students into Primary Care as well?

I just dont understand the shock DO students get when they find out that they will have to settle for FM and IM at community programs. The profession proclaims wanting to send students into underserved areas of primary care, which are typically alot easier residencies to attain. Like I mentioned before, its like a Dental student being shocked that he has to practice general dentistry and wont be able to do an Ortho or Endo residency. There are enough spots for everyone, but people are aiming too high.

You really should not berate DO students and tell them that they should be happy with primary care. I believe you tried to get into a DO School and did not make the cut. Everyone is entitled to have high aspirations. Yes, DO grads do match into competitive specialities.

 

[IslandStyle808]

Dont those MD schools place a majority of students into Primary Care as well?

I just dont understand the shock DO students get when they find out that they will have to settle for FM and IM at community programs. The profession proclaims wanting to send students into underserved areas of primary care, which are typically alot easier residencies to attain. Like I mentioned before, its like a Dental student being shocked that he has to practice general dentistry and wont be able to do an Ortho or Endo residency. There are enough spots for everyone, but people are aiming too high.

Uh no, more like half of them.

The profession says all kinds of garbage just to get more DO students and more money into their pockets. They state those messages just like how all MD schools state they want to increase the amount of primary care physicians. Its to make themselves look good. Yet they gloat about their integrated plastics match or their integrated radiology matches. Its pretty much a hypocrisy.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Im not berating DO students, Im surprised at their surprise that they might have to lower their standards inlight of the residency crunch. Everyone should enter DO school with the expectation that they very well might have to do FM or IM. I dont understand how this is unreasonable or harsh.

Eventually, we all have to settle for reality.

You really should not berate DO students and tell them that they should be happy with primary care. I believe you tried to get into a DO School and did not make the cut. Everyone is entitled to have high aspirations. Yes, DO grads do match into competitive specialities.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Ok, I understand, and I understand the frustration DO students feel that they might have to change their mind about pursuing the competative specialties like ENT, Ortho, Derm, etc. After all, you work hard for 4 years in one of the most grueling schools, you deserve to be able to choose which specialty of medicine you want right? But that isnt how it works.

To be fair, America needs more PCP docs. Someone has to take care of all that Diabetus.

Uh no, more like half of them.

The profession says all kinds of garbage just to get more DO students and more money into their pockets. They state those messages just like how all MD schools state they want to increase the amount of primary care physicians. Its to make themselves look good. Yet they gloat about their integrated plastics match or their integrated radiology matches. Its pretty much a hypocrisy.

 

[SLC]

To be fair, America needs more PCP docs. Someone has to take care of all that Diabetus.

I’ll gladly take care of “all that diabetus”, knowing I’ll be able to send you “all those diabetic feet”

 

[GypsyHummus]

Its like that Lego Movie song "Everything is Awesome" but instead its "Everyone is Diabetus"

I’ll gladly take care of “all that diabetus”, knowing I’ll be able to send you “all those diabetic feet”

 

[Instatewaiter]

Everything is sugar
Everything is cool when your A1C's 10

 

[SLC]

Everything is sugar
Everything is cool when your A1C's 10

10? Weak.

 

[Goro]

More important to me is finding out why only 80% matched.

Unless it's something different from last year, I'm just doing the same thing that the previous class did and hoping for the best.

It's because the other 20% go AOA or MilMatch?

From what I've seen, the % of DO students matching ACGME stayed the same, yet some 1000 more DOs grads were looking to match. So, that says to me that DOs are doing better. Am I wrong?

Just to reiterate....COCA will sanction schools that can't get their students into residencies. They care about this far more than school attrition rates.

 

[DelayedGratification]

It's because the other 20% go AOA or MilMatch?

From what I've seen, the % of DO students matching ACGME stayed the same, yet some 1000 more DOs grads were looking to match. So, that says to me that DOs are doing better. Am I wrong?

Just to reiterate....COCA will sanction schools that can't get their students into residencies. They care about this far more than school attrition rates.

If more grads are looking to match and the percentage stays the same, you have a greater raw number of unmatched students.

My only concern is being able to make up the 20ish % that we will lose after 2020.

 

[SLC]

If more grads are looking to match and the percentage stays the same, you have a greater raw number of unmatched students.

My only concern is being able to make up the 20ish % that we will lose after 2020.

You also have a greater raw number of matched students.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

No, I already told you, Dental life.

I’m amazed you haven’t been banned yet with how much you change your story. Not 5 months ago you straight up told me you were a DO student. Before that your professed to be a pod student.

Now dental?

Get your story straight.

There is a difference between a school having a mission, and that school intentionally putting stumbling blocks in front of their students who want to do something outside of PC.

 

[WorldChanger36]

It's because the other 20% go AOA or MilMatch?

From what I've seen, the % of DO students matching ACGME stayed the same, yet some 1000 more DOs grads were looking to match. So, that says to me that DOs are doing better. Am I wrong?

Just to reiterate....COCA will sanction schools that can't get their students into residencies. They care about this far more than school attrition rates.

Cant programs just create TRIs to stuff un-matchable grads into? Carey did not have such a great match this round. Many are feeling forced into TRIs. Once a person is placed into a TRI doesn't COCA just wash there hands and call it a match? What is to stop other schools from doing the same just to avoid a mean letter from COCA?

 

[Goro]

Cant programs just create TRIs to stuff un-matchable grads into? Carey did not have such a great match this round. Many are feeling forced into TRIs. Once a person is placed into a TRI doesn't COCA just wash there hands and call it a match? What is to stop other schools from doing the same just to avoid a mean letter from COCA?

These things cost a lot of money...and they have to be accredited. A shell game will be very hard to do.

 

[GypsyHummus]

I never said I was a Pod or DO student.

Plus, someone can be a DO student, not like it, drop out first semester, and try to get into dental school.

Someone can be a Pharmacy student 6 months ago, drop out, and go to Podiatry school or PA school. I dont understand why you have such an issue with me.

I’m amazed you haven’t been banned yet with how much you change your story. Not 5 months ago you straight up told me you were a DO student. Before that your professed to be a pod student.

Now dental?

Get your story straight.

There is a difference between a school having a mission, and that school intentionally putting stumbling blocks in front of their students who want to do something outside of PC.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I never said I was a Pod or DO student.

Plus, someone can be a DO student, not like it, drop out first semester, and try to get into dental school.

Someone can be a Pharmacy student 6 months ago, drop out, and go to Podiatry school or PA school. I dont understand why you have such an issue with me.

Because I have literally seen you say the words, “I am a X student” in 3 different fields. It’s misrepresentation and against the TOS. You literally typed those words and then proceeded to give advice as if you were in those positions.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

The ACGME match rate was the same this year as it was last year, which was a multi-year high mark.

How many of the people counted in the unmatched Talley were pulled from the ACGME match due to matching AOA. I honestly don’t know, but I bet it’s not 0%

What was the USMD match rate this year BTW, it’s usually in the lower 90’s if I recall correctly.

The doom and gloom is a bit melodramatic people; nothing seems to have changed this year; it certainly hasn’t gotten worse.

Folks who matched AOA are counted as withdrew, in a different category. So those people really didn’t match. If they matched AOA they would have withdrew.

 

[bigindian4891]

I never said I was a Pod or DO student.

Plus, someone can be a DO student, not like it, drop out first semester, and try to get into dental school.

Someone can be a Pharmacy student 6 months ago, drop out, and go to Podiatry school or PA school. I dont understand why you have such an issue with me.

I dont come on here very often, but I have noticed you do seem to give out quite a bit of advice in many different fields.

 

[FourniersGreenGang]

Dont those MD schools place a majority of students into Primary Care as well?

I just dont understand the shock DO students get when they find out that they will have to settle for FM and IM at community programs. The profession proclaims wanting to send students into underserved areas of primary care, which are typically alot easier residencies to attain. Like I mentioned before, its like a Dental student being shocked that he has to practice general dentistry and wont be able to do an Ortho or Endo residency. There are enough spots for everyone, but people are aiming too high.

I think a big difference is that dentists who earn a spot in Endo or Ortho via scoring well enough to be in those spots will actually be able to get a spot in them. Many DOs are overlooked in favor of MDs who don't have as high of scores. It's not like dds students have a better chance at getting a competitive dental residency over dmd students. Whoever is more competitive will get the spot regardless of degree. Not so in a lot of medical residencies and that is where the unfair bit is for DOs.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I think a big difference is that dentists who earn a spot in Endo or Ortho via scoring well enough to be in those spots will actually be able to get a spot in them. Many DOs are overlooked in favor of MDs who don't have as high of scores. It's not like dds students have a better chance at getting a competitive dental residency over dmd students. Whoever is more competitive will get the spot regardless of degree. Not so in a lot of medical residencies and that is where the unfair bit is for DOs.

On top of the fact that some PDs purposely don't rank students who are 'below their pedigree.' I can understand if the program feels the student wouldn't make it in their program (i.e. pass their specialty boards or keep up with patients) , but I doubt this is the reason a good chunk of the time.

 

[Giovanotto]

Class of 2020 checking in:

 

[TheaterOfTheme]

Class of 2020 checking in:

C/O 2021 right behind you with 800 more first year DO students


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