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I just graduated and I’ve been practicing a month-ish? So I still think it’s too early to say whether I regret vet school or not. I’ll say it was not a mentally pleasant experience for me as a whole, but I I feel I don’t have enough experience in gainful employment to say how I feel either way as pertains to whether if I could go back, would I do it over...

I will say this thread had me thinking about the alternative career paths I did consider before applying and it made me giggle. Right out of high school I wanted to do professional acting. I’m decidedly not a triple threat, however :laugh: At one point I wanted to go into meteorology, but I found out calculus was NOT my thing. I stillll think I chose the path that was right for me, but ask me in a few years. We will see!
 
So what do you recommend for students to do to maximize future happiness? Specialize? Is there anything we can do?

I feel like for many of us reading this thread, we're probably in too deep to run away now (or at least that's how it feels). So I am curious if any of you (@Minnerbelle, @DVMDream, @LetItSnow) have advice that can help us at least ATTEMPT to set ourselves up for future job satisfaction. But otherwise, is your consensus that vet school is not worth it?

If you have the stamina and topical interest to do a specialty, I feel like a higher percentage of them enjoy their jobs. Of course, that comes with the stress of doing an internship, getting into and through residency, etc. Not having done it, I can only tell you what I've observed in the ones around me. There are certainly unhappy specialists, but I think percentage-wise they come out better than the rest.

Arranging your life so you have the financial luxury of not being trapped into any particular region or job probably would help.

I think most of what bothers me at least is the micromanaging and expectation that because you are a "salaried" employee your time doesn't matter. You are just there to keep working and keep inputting more and more hours in. Breaks don't matter, you can work instead. You don't actually really "get off" when your shift ends, that is just when the patients might stop coming in or for ER when you may be able to stop taking on new patients. You are still stuck dealing with all the records, phone calls, emails, etc you didn't have time to address throughout the day at the end. So a 10 hour shift becomes a 12 hour one. Or a 14 hour shift becomes 16 hours.

I think this approaches one of the biggest issues. Vets are generally overworked, underappreciated, abused from management, clients, and each other. It's just not a healthy life.

I don't think 'salaried' matters. I'm not really salaried, but all those things apply to me. Bottom line is - you are under more stress and working harder than you are compensated for.

The lack of respect for boundaries is astounding. There's just this expectation that you'll keep giving and giving and giving - whether it's giving up a lunch break, doing all your charts on your own time, whatever. I'm seeing 30% more cases than last year, and the only thing I'm getting for it (aside from the production increase, which means making 30% more money) is an occasional email from people upstream saying "hey, we know it's stressful out there - keep up the good work." Ok. Thanks for taking 5 seconds to send that from the comfort of your cushy office chair. Believe me - the increase in income does NOT make up for it. But we keep struggling through the load, so what's management going to do about it? Nothing - they're thrilled because their numbers are up with the same employee costs. Yay for them! From even higher up, management looks like rockstars because they're increasing revenue while keeping staffing costs level. Wooooohooooo!

And the micromanaging from those that don't have a DVM and have no clue what they are talking about.

Yup. Just a few weeks ago our hospital manager, a former CVT, refunded a client because the client was unhappy with me because I didn't find something that they didn't let me go look for. Their pDVM found it after doing the diagnostics that I recommended that the client declined. That's money DIRECTLY out of my pocket. So I lost money because a client was a dickhead and management was more concerned with appeasing them than my quality of life and income. Wooooooohooooo!

There isn't much you can do to avoid some of these things as they are present in many (if not most) clinics and positions to some degree.

Aside from ownership, if that's your thing. (as you noted later in your post). Which brings its own set of difficulties and stresses. But some people really dig it and find it rewarding.

Now breaks in ER don't happen. Sorry ER docs, I wish they did. They should happen, but ER is a bit of a different beast, maybe one day vet ER's will be staffed appropriately so that doctors can stagger in a 30-60 minute lunch break/reprieve, they deserve that break just like any other area of veterinary medicine or medicine in general.

But there's no REASON they can't. There really isn't. At our busiest hospital, there are multiple ER doctors on 20 out of 24 hours of the day. At my hospital (our next busiest) we have multiple ER doctors from mid-morning to midnight. No reason there can't be scheduled breaks.

For that matter, there's no reason there can't be scheduled breaks even with 1 ER doctor. All management has to do is say "we're going to accept that a client may have to wait 30 minutes even when they are the only client here." Obviously, you'd make exceptions if an unstable patient came in, but for any other cases? Why NOT make them wait? Which matters more - that one client's convenience or my every-shift quality of life?

The only reason we don't get breaks is because we've never GOTTEN them, and nobody wants to fix the issue.

What has started to bother me more lately is the way other DVMs treat each other, some of the things I have heard and seen from other vets towards other vets are just beyond astounding.

Just another one of the lovely aspects of this field! DVMs sniping at DVMs! It's absurd. I worked 15 years in another field and NEVER saw REMOTELY the level of nastiness. We all talk about respecting that there are different ways to approach a case, but at the end of the day, we all feel OUR way is the BEST way (duh, that's why we do it) and most of us aren't big enough to truly step back and say "I'm not gonna snipe that vet for doing the best they can in the situation they are in where I may not know all of the details." We all talk about not judging another vet because we weren't there and don't know how the animal looked or what the owner said or all that ............. and then we do it anyway, because we're so much smarter and better than that other vet, OBVIOUSLY.

I turf'd a case Monday morning to an IM doc. Was possibly a surgical gallbladder, but it wasn't clear from aFAST/BW/etc. I didn't take the dog in; it came in Sunday afternoon, was given to me Sunday night. It was on pretty typical liver-gallbladder therapy. I added some abx for potential ascending cholangiohep, and some fentanyl because it was becoming more painful. The IM DVM taking over the case - who has historically ALWAYS been difficult to work with - saw how craptastic the dog looked and muttered "well, at least WE'LL do something about it."

JFC, lady. You MIGHT have 3-5 cases hospitalized - AT MOST. And you'll see 6 - max - appointments during your day shift. I managed 12 inpatients overnight and saw 30 outpatients, and I still took time to re-fast the dog to make sure it wasn't immediately surgical and I did everything I could to make it comfortable and improve its situation. And, managed to find time to scope some crap from a dog's stomach. Which is easy, but really cuts into my time. The last thing I need is some PITA specialist making me feel like crap for not treating it like she would, because apparently I'm supposed to have that level of knowledge without, yanno, actually being a specialist in her specialty, while simultaneously seeing 2-4x the number of cases. Take a hike. Sooooo discouraging.

And this is a pretty consistent experience. You'll hear it from one vet after another. Specialists suck. They're great when they work magic, or when you stumble onto that rare pleasant one, but ...... you WILL get beaten up by a specialist. Inevitably. Because that's what they do.

No offensive, @SocialStigma ... perhaps you can be in the minority. 🙂

And that's just one aspect of the DVM-on-DVM attacks. It's all over the place, not just specialist to non-specialist.

I would be torn on either still doing vet school and strongly reconsidering specialization.

Knowing what I know now I would not do it again. Specialization or not. The industry is broken.

The problem is this: I love medicine (and specifically emergency medicine). And I love animals. And I love working with good clients. I like the idea of being a vet.

I just can't find a way to do this - so far - without the overwhelming negatives that are present in this field. And I'm not sure there is one. And they make what could be a really rewarding job just .... bleh.
 
If you have the stamina and topical interest to do a specialty, I feel like a higher percentage of them enjoy their jobs. Of course, that comes with the stress of doing an internship, getting into and through residency, etc. Not having done it, I can only tell you what I've observed in the ones around me. There are certainly unhappy specialists, but I think percentage-wise they come out better than the rest.

Arranging your life so you have the financial luxury of not being trapped into any particular region or job probably would help.



I think this approaches one of the biggest issues. Vets are generally overworked, underappreciated, abused from management, clients, and each other. It's just not a healthy life.

I don't think 'salaried' matters. I'm not really salaried, but all those things apply to me. Bottom line is - you are under more stress and working harder than you are compensated for.

The lack of respect for boundaries is astounding. There's just this expectation that you'll keep giving and giving and giving - whether it's giving up a lunch break, doing all your charts on your own time, whatever. I'm seeing 30% more cases than last year, and the only thing I'm getting for it (aside from the production increase, which means making 30% more money) is an occasional email from people upstream saying "hey, we know it's stressful out there - keep up the good work." Ok. Thanks for taking 5 seconds to send that from the comfort of your cushy office chair. Believe me - the increase in income does NOT make up for it. But we keep struggling through the load, so what's management going to do about it? Nothing - they're thrilled because their numbers are up with the same employee costs. Yay for them! From even higher up, management looks like rockstars because they're increasing revenue while keeping staffing costs level. Wooooohooooo!



Yup. Just a few weeks ago our hospital manager, a former CVT, refunded a client because the client was unhappy with me because I didn't find something that they didn't let me go look for. Their pDVM found it after doing the diagnostics that I recommended that the client declined. That's money DIRECTLY out of my pocket. So I lost money because a client was a dickhead and management was more concerned with appeasing them than my quality of life and income. Wooooooohooooo!



Aside from ownership, if that's your thing. (as you noted later in your post). Which brings its own set of difficulties and stresses. But some people really dig it and find it rewarding.



But there's no REASON they can't. There really isn't. At our busiest hospital, there are multiple ER doctors on 20 out of 24 hours of the day. At my hospital (our next busiest) we have multiple ER doctors from mid-morning to midnight. No reason there can't be scheduled breaks.

For that matter, there's no reason there can't be scheduled breaks even with 1 ER doctor. All management has to do is say "we're going to accept that a client may have to wait 30 minutes even when they are the only client here." Obviously, you'd make exceptions if an unstable patient came in, but for any other cases? Why NOT make them wait? Which matters more - that one client's convenience or my every-shift quality of life?

The only reason we don't get breaks is because we've never GOTTEN them, and nobody wants to fix the issue.



Just another one of the lovely aspects of this field! DVMs sniping at DVMs! It's absurd. I worked 15 years in another field and NEVER saw REMOTELY the level of nastiness. We all talk about respecting that there are different ways to approach a case, but at the end of the day, we all feel OUR way is the BEST way (duh, that's why we do it) and most of us aren't big enough to truly step back and say "I'm not gonna snipe that vet for doing the best they can in the situation they are in where I may not know all of the details." We all talk about not judging another vet because we weren't there and don't know how the animal looked or what the owner said or all that ............. and then we do it anyway, because we're so much smarter and better than that other vet, OBVIOUSLY.

I turf'd a case Monday morning to an IM doc. Was possibly a surgical gallbladder, but it wasn't clear from aFAST/BW/etc. I didn't take the dog in; it came in Sunday afternoon, was given to me Sunday night. It was on pretty typical liver-gallbladder therapy. I added some abx for potential ascending cholangiohep, and some fentanyl because it was becoming more painful. The IM DVM taking over the case - who has historically ALWAYS been difficult to work with - saw how craptastic the dog looked and muttered "well, at least WE'LL do something about it."

JFC, lady. You MIGHT have 3-5 cases hospitalized - AT MOST. And you'll see 6 - max - appointments during your day shift. I managed 12 inpatients overnight and saw 30 outpatients, and I still took time to re-fast the dog to make sure it wasn't immediately surgical and I did everything I could to make it comfortable and improve its situation. And, managed to find time to scope some crap from a dog's stomach. Which is easy, but really cuts into my time. The last thing I need is some PITA specialist making me feel like crap for not treating it like she would, because apparently I'm supposed to have that level of knowledge without, yanno, actually being a specialist in her specialty, while simultaneously seeing 2-4x the number of cases. Take a hike. Sooooo discouraging.

And this is a pretty consistent experience. You'll hear it from one vet after another. Specialists suck. They're great when they work magic, or when you stumble onto that rare pleasant one, but ...... you WILL get beaten up by a specialist. Inevitably. Because that's what they do.

No offensive, @SocialStigma ... perhaps you can be in the minority. 🙂

And that's just one aspect of the DVM-on-DVM attacks. It's all over the place, not just specialist to non-specialist.



Knowing what I know now I would not do it again. Specialization or not. The industry is broken.

The problem is this: I love medicine (and specifically emergency medicine). And I love animals. And I love working with good clients. I like the idea of being a vet.

I just can't find a way to do this - so far - without the overwhelming negatives that are present in this field. And I'm not sure there is one. And they make what could be a really rewarding job just .... bleh.

As someone in "specialty" I get berated by vets on a regular basis. GP vets, ER vets, IM vets/neuro vets (actually don't get calls from surgeons so haven't been yelled at by them yet :laugh: ).....it doesn't matter there's dinguses in all the fields in vet med. The best is when I catch them bitching while on hold because I pick up the call during their bitch fest. Plus all the calls are recorded everything you say even on hold, we can go back and listen to if we so desire.

My favorites are the "I don't need you I'm just calling to put into the record I called"... sweet thanks, saves me 10-20 minutes and I get to record you didn't listen to our recommendations. Have a nice day.
 
The problem is this: I love medicine (and specifically emergency medicine). And I love animals. And I love working with good clients. I like the idea of being a vet.

I just can't find a way to do this - so far - without the overwhelming negatives that are present in this field. And I'm not sure there is one. And they make what could be a really rewarding job just .... bleh.

Yup this exactly.

I’ve at this point just taken myself out of the equation to do relief because it lessens the bull crap. In the current climate, I’m a super hot commodity. I can get paid way better, and on an hourly basis. So the more crap they schedule for me, the more they have to pay. I’m the superhero that comes into the clinic that everyone appreciates, that breath of fresh air. If they annoy me, I just don’t go back. I have plenty of others that are desperate for me to take even 1 shift. And if I only have to be there a day here and there, my tolerance for the asinine **** that drives me batty is much higher than if I’m subjected to it day in and day out.

It’s not what I pictured doing, and I miss my clients/patients. But for the time being, it mitigates the awfulness enough that I can tolerate it while I can still practice and do a lot of the things I enjoy doing.
 
I'm only 3 years out, so maybe i just haven't worked long enough to be bitter/burnt out yet. I'm still happy with my job, and happy with the industry. Maybe I just work at a unicorn practice, but we get lunch breaks, and we take time off, and my boss fires clients. I get to say no to cases when I'm too busy. I get treated with respect by people I work with on a daily basis, and that really goes a long way toward providing job satisfaction. I don't throw other DVMs under the bus when I'm asked to give a second opinion, and I've actually said to people that their other vet was right. I realize I'm probably in the minority in terms of work/life balance. I wish the rest of the industry could be like this. But until we demand change collectively, corporate practices are going to push client satisfaction over vet satisfaction. We should probably unionize. Techs for sure should have unions.
 
Just another one of the lovely aspects of this field! DVMs sniping at DVMs! It's absurd. I worked 15 years in another field and NEVER saw REMOTELY the level of nastiness. We all talk about respecting that there are different ways to approach a case, but at the end of the day, we all feel OUR way is the BEST way (duh, that's why we do it) and most of us aren't big enough to truly step back and say "I'm not gonna snipe that vet for doing the best they can in the situation they are in where I may not know all of the details." We all talk about not judging another vet because we weren't there and don't know how the animal looked or what the owner said or all that ............. and then we do it anyway, because we're so much smarter and better than that other vet, OBVIOUSLY.

I turf'd a case Monday morning to an IM doc. Was possibly a surgical gallbladder, but it wasn't clear from aFAST/BW/etc. I didn't take the dog in; it came in Sunday afternoon, was given to me Sunday night. It was on pretty typical liver-gallbladder therapy. I added some abx for potential ascending cholangiohep, and some fentanyl because it was becoming more painful. The IM DVM taking over the case - who has historically ALWAYS been difficult to work with - saw how craptastic the dog looked and muttered "well, at least WE'LL do something about it."

This is so befuddling? Like what else *could* you do medically for a dog in a gallbladder crisis? It’s not like you just threw it in a cage with oral rimadyl or something crazy like that. Like yeah ideally gallbladder comes out ASAP but how were you supposed to find the time to do such? Not like you would call anyone in for what would’ve still been an elective procedure at that point. Smh.
 
So it looked like I was still happy at 4-5 years out, and somewhere after 5 years was the tipping point. I’m sure there are other posts out there, but this is the evolution of my career

2 years out
Update. I'm now just shy of two years out. 15 months after bailing on the nightmare that was my first gawd awful job. Leaving remains to be the best decision I've ever made in my adult life.

As far as GP jobs go, I can't ask for any better. I work at a multi doctor practice where I can practice low volume high quality medicine, where there is very few turnover in doctors and staff. Everyone takes pride in the work they do, and we run a pretty tight ship. My coworkers are great, and we always have at least two doctors on (and often have 4+ doctors in the building) so there's a ton of support. The staff is well trained, and I have not had any issues with negative attitudes. I get compensated very well. Im earning more now than I thought I'd ever earn. Im not overworked, and my job respects my work/life balance. I'm as happy as can be as a GP vet, and I can't imagine too many hospitals that would be an improvement to this one. It's a great fit. I am able to be the doctor I want to be with coworkers that I like working with.

And like I said before, it means the world to me that my practice backs me up. Anytime there's an issue, I have people who will listen and help me sort out if it's a me issue, a client issue, or a hospital issue. And once that's identified, people who support me 100% and help me rectify the issue. People don't get mad at me even if something was my fault. They sympathize because they know I didn't mean it, and help me come up ways to make it right (often times involving hospital resources).

But I do wonder if I may burn out at some point. I worry constantly about my cases, and it's hard to turn that switch off when I leave the building. Once I'm done for the day, I'm done as far as my job description goes. No on call or anything. And all the doctors have each other's backs so if there were any issues with my patients, I know they will be taken care of well by someone else. But I still can't shut it off. Mostly, it's the fact that I can't control clients (esp from home!) and for some reason that makes me uneasy. If clients weren't involved, I would be so much happier. It's weird because I like a vast majority of my clients. It's only maybe a couple of cases a week that makes me frustrated/angry. But somehow, those take a huge toll on me. I do pro bono work one day a week and that keeps me grounded (and a little less guilty since not that many people out there could afford to take their pet to my hospital).

3 years out
Man it's been a long time since I've checked in here, but kind of timely since this was the exact thread I was looking out for to see how everyone was doing. I think my answer at this point is yes I would do it over again.

It's been a whirlwind the past 3 years since graduation, but I've settled into a career and am mostly preoccupied with figuring out planning my life and secondarily what I want to do with my career.

I'm feeling pretty good about things in terms of my competence overall as a GP. My intentions were never to go into private practice because I never wanted to really deal with clients, but I've been amazed at how much I actually enjoy client interactions. There's maybe one client a week that annoys me enough to really bother me, but a vast majority of my interactions are very positive. It's pretty rare that a client pisses me off. Many older wiser vets have told me that something happened around 3 yrs of practice that made them feel settled clinically, and it's totally been the case for me. I don't think I was ever truly incompetent or anything, but over the past 6 months or so I've really gotten to the point that I don't feel any sort of anxiety going into any sort of appointment. I've gotten to the point where I feel like I could be the only dr on and I would be totally comfortable dealing with whatever is thrown my way. I feel like a pretty good doctor (and no longer an imposter), and that's a ****ing awesome feeling.

That being said, it's certainly not all sunshines and roses. I kind of hate my current hospital, and wish I could be elsewhere. The quality of medicine at this hospital is phenomenal, but management sucks. We are so short on techs, and the front desk is incompetent as ****. Like legit awful. It's kind of like when you go to a chain restaurant and get the stupidest waitress on the face of the planet, and you wonder how this level of incompetence is possible. That's my reception team in a nutshell. The whole management team also consists mostly of members that do not deserve much respect from the rest of the employees. It's bad. So for these reasons, the inefficiencies of this hospital really limits the number of patients I can see in a day. I actually switched jobs for a shorter commute and I highly regret it. And it turns out I ended up taking a pretty steep pay cut for it. Unfortunately it's way too far to go back. I come in every day fantasizing about putting in my notice.

I only work 4 days a week, but I literally live at the hospital for super long shifts that never end. And it's exhausting. I don't know for how long I can keep that up. And that's where the question comes in... what am I going to do? I'm at that point where I am ready to start popping out kids. I kind of need to before my biologic clock runs out. But I can't entirely stop working. Do I suck it up and continue at this place I don't want to be, possibly part time? Do I end up just doing relief? Or do I try to pursue something I really enjoy like dentistry and try to do a residency? Who knows, but money has to factor in somewhere...

Speaking of money, honestly that's probably one of the biggest reasons I can say I would do it over again. I have to admit, I've been quite fortunate financially, so while I'm dependent on working to stay afloat, it's not a huge stress for me. My parents footed roughly half of my vet school bills, and I had no undergrad debt. I'm not earning nearly as much as my friends who are also GPs in a similar location, but I'm still doing okay and earning >$100k in a semi-high cost of living area (pretty high overall but not like SF or NYC crazy). And my fiancé also has a substantial income, though it's less than mine. So while living a super modest lifestyle for 3 years, I was able to pay $156k back on my student loans since graduation. By paying waaay more than required each month I was able to pay $125k in principle, and have just $32k left. I totally could have just paid that all off, but I ended up buying a $400k house instead with 20% down (that cash came from my fiancé as my bank account is perpetually empty). So I'm beyond comfortable. But with how much I'm putting into my mortgage, student loans, car payments, home renovations, utilities, and all the insurances (car, home, life, disability, malpractice)... my monthly expenses BEFORE other ancillary living costs are >$6000/month. (If we really wanted to, we could lower it to $3500-4000/month) So I need to continue working. The crazy thing is, we are by no means living an extravagant lifestyle. Like, this is the crappy house in the neighborhood... it's just a high cost of living area. Cable TV is likely a luxury we will never have. And the cost of adding a child is daunting. As is the knowledge that I'm way behind on my retirement account. So the finances are stressful for sure, but compared to where things could be, I'm quite well off. It's the struggle of the upper middle class in America, which really isn't a horrible place to be. My income as a vet is high enough that I can't think of too many other things I would rather be doing at the same income level or higher, and my debt burden isn't high enough for me to have serious regrets.

Overall i am so into being a veterinarian that it's the core of my being. likely unhealthy, but it is what it is. I live and breathe it. Aside from the poor management/staff issues, and work-life balance issues to an extent, I actually really enjoy what I do. I honestly don't know what I would be doing if I weren't a vet

4 years out
This resonates so much. I keep saying “I don’t know for how long I can keep going at the pace I’m going.” And I work a 4 day work week scheduled for only 35hr/wk. I’ve had multiple opportunities that would get me out of clinical work that comes with very good QOL. But I actually love what I do, I think I’m really good at it, and I just haven’t gotten to the point where I’m ready to give it up. The days are long and exhausting, and I think that’s the problem. Once the day starts, it’s nonstop and no matter how hard I try, it’s really hard to put a stop to it at the end of the day. The stress of knowing I need to get home at a reasonable time while treading water and and putting out all the little fires throughout the day, then tying up all the loose ends at the end of the day so I can start fresh the next day is a little much day in and day out.

5 years out
I actually do enjoy my actual job of being a veterinarian. Clients don't stress me out. I like being an actor for a different skit in every exam room trying to essentially be likeable to each client to improve compliance every half an hour while being hugely judgemental inside. There are a lot of clients and patients I genuinely like. But the rest of them are fine too. Even the pain in the ass idiots amuse me. The belligerent ones are few and far in between, and at this point, they really don't bother me. I'm liberal with oral and injectable sedation for mean animals, and will refuse to see a mean dog if the owner won't get with the program. Mean cats are my specialty so I don't care how bad they are. I won't see exotics other than just for a non-witnessed mercy euthanasia, and I plan to keep it that way. It stresses me out to not be good/knowledgeable in my trade, I know I'm a kick-ass dog/cat doctor, and don't want to venture out into territory of non-excellence which is where I would be with exotics.

I love the actual interesting medical and surgical cases.

The special snow flake young millennial lay staff with the work ethic of a sloth and ego of Trump, who crumble and cry the minute they're told they did something wrong. I ****ing hate working with them, and unfortunately there are a few of them in every clinic. Good thing is that I have enough staff that I love, that it works out. Most vet hospitals have horrible or incapable bosses, and that's hard to deal with. But given that I don't ever intend on owning my own practice, it's something I just need to come to terms with. I've just learned to be emotionally dead inside, and take an apathetic approach to internal inefficiencies and conflict.

So I like what I do. I like being a vet. I don't particularly like my job, but it's fine overall. That being said, it's easy for me to say when I'm not financially stressed. I could lose my job tomorrow and I'd be okay. I could drop to part time, and I would be okay. I also have a handful of clinics nearby who would love to hire me if they had the chance. I get paid well enough and my husband gets paid well enough that we are fairly well off. I also paid off my student loans (~$150k) in a little over 4 years. I could up and leave the profession tomorrow if I wanted, and I'd be okay. I think that has a lot to do with my satisfaction level. If I felt trapped in my current job with a significant amount of student loans and nowhere to go, I'd probably be super depressed right now. It's easy to be apathetic with the negatives of your situation when you have freedom. It weighs on you heavily if you are trapped.

6 years out
I’ve worked for both private and corporate and they both grated on me in different ways. I don’t think it’s legal in my state for a rando nonvet to own a vet hospital (nor would I ever work for such a hospital). I hate that associates are always scapegoated for the most asinine things. I hate how for some reason receptionists and practice managers hold a lot of power, and effectively make lives difficult for vets and often time techs.

For corporate, the management structure is annoying and if your hospital and local management are duds, you’re SOL. Though I felt a lot more appreciated when I worked corporate. My efforts were acknowledged and rewarded, and that was nice. But staff being paid **** and unhappy, and management missing the big picture and understaffing support staff to control payroll made it way less efficient. I could see way more patients and make way more revenue if I could leverage more staff. When corporate makes annoying decisions that then annoy clients, we get the brunt of dealing with the grievances and have no way to address it.

Private practice is a monarchy. Your only recourse if you don’t like the king is to leave the kingdom. Anything that your boss says goes. And the boss is often outdated (not across the board, but it’s hard to stay current for a lot of owners who had been working insane hours to keep their businesses afloat). And boss is often not a good business person. Or a good HR person. I don’t ever want anyone to dictate how I do medicine, especially if it is not to elevate quality and they don’t have evidence to back it up. Sure, I will absolutely consider the cost benefits of xyz and totally get that things have to make business sense. But it kills my soul when boss essentially commits malpractice because even if I steer far clear of boss’s cases, I end up involved with those cases eventually. Also, I will never answer to lay staff, but again this goes back to receptionists and practice managers who have no clue end up with a lot of power in many clinics. I hate bosses that try to micromanage what I do. If what I’m doing is medically sound, is profitable, clients are happy, and the staff doesn’t have issues with it, I need to be left alone. I don’t need to be a punching bag for whatever issues boss is going through. A lot of people in vet med suffer from mental illness. Honestly that’s probably a component of how people become vets. And I 100% understand how debilitating it is, but it should not affect how I am treated. Also, when you have an assistant or tech or manager who thinks they are a doctor, boss needs to shut that **** down ASAP. Issues boil because that kind of behavior is allowed.

There is only so much I can do in a day. If boss makes me responsible for more than that, either quality is going to go down, something isn’t going to get done, or I’m going to do everything well to the detriment of my own health. And 99% of the time, it’s going to end up the latter. Owners tend to become owners because they want control over everything and/or want associates to deal with **** they don’t want to anymore.

I hear practice owners saying they are great practice owners all the time. I know very few associates who feel their boss is awesome. Most who are still relatively happy say they like being a vet despite their employer, not because of them. Sometimes it takes a year or two before the rose colored glasses come off. So good luck with that.

Also, I think a lot of it has to do with the nature of the job itself. There are a lot of stressors on all sides both on associates and owners. I think it’s hard to actually be a good boss, not necessarily that these people are evil or anything.

6 years out
THIS!!! I actually really love general practice and am damn good at it. I very rarely have clients upset with me, and I’m only bothered by clients once in a blue moon. Even the annoying ones typically don’t bother me. I’m highly skilled in surgery and dentistry, and I practice high quality medicine but am also adept at working with lower income clientele. I’m a good producer.

But I hate working in general practice because of ****ing management. There’s a lot I can put up with, but being managed as a doctor by a lay person or tech is not something I can tolerate. And vast majority of gps ****ing run that way. Even if not officially, either the front desk or tech staff for some reason carry a lot of power. I don’t mind collaborating, but the second I feel like I’m getting bossed around by lay person/tech, I’m out. I’ve bounced around between a number of jobs (all but one because I kept getting poached with better offers at a time I was getting fed up with the above issue). But I’m done now. I’m leaving gp. Same circus different clowns. It’s a shame because I was born to be a kickass gp.
 
I am fairly happy doing what I do now. Which is a bit strange, but... I think part of it is being appreciated, and another part is not being overloaded. I definitely don't make the income I would need to pay off big loans so it's not something I could have leaned on even if I had seen it in my future...

I wouldn't do vet school over again if I literally had to do it over again, because eff that I didn't like it the first time. Ain't no one pay me anything to take large animal anatomy over again. Lordt.

I wouldn't do vet school again if I had any more debt than I did to start with. $80k - that's what I managed. I ended up being able to pay that off in 5 years, so now I can do the not-so-great paying job and be okay.

So, it pretty much boils down to... nah.

I would have instead done some sort of microbiology thing perhaps. I don't know that I would have felt fulfilled, necessarily - but I also didn't have future me telling me emphatically that vet med doesn't leave me fulfilled either, and for a lot more debt. And, as discussed previously, I would have likely ignored even a spectre of myself visiting in the night Ebenezer Scrooge style.

If any of you beeches want to consider Lap of Love, it doesn't pay that terribly if your area takes off a little better than mine (or if you are in an established area) and I do find it fulfilling. Send me a PM. We can chat.
 
If any of you beeches want to consider Lap of Love, it doesn't pay that terribly if your area takes off a little better than mine (or if you are in an established area) and I do find it fulfilling. Send me a PM. We can chat.

We had a lecture from McVety today and I was trying to remember who on here was doing that. I'm going to message you.
 
I like what I do, but yeah, I am a specialist.

Would I do it again? Eh. I'm like TT...I don't want to like, actually go back and take classes, although I miss the close, in person friendships from vet school. I don't regret going to vet school and I really do enjoy my job most days. Internship and especially residency sucked a whole lot and there were days I thought about throwing in the towel, but it's so much better on the board certified side. My pay isn't really much more than a GP, but I work M-F 9-4 and can take lunch any day I want, so my work life balance is great. Being in pathology I can easily leave work at work and I don't have to worry about how my hospitalized patients are doing or things like that. I realize that that is rare in vet med and I've got a special situation compared to most. I get my pile of cases in the morning and can leave when they're done. If I want to make extra money, I volunteer to do extra cases, but they don't just give me more than my daily quota unless I request it. Wash and repeat the next day. It's occasionally monotonous, but I like the predictability and there are enough wacko cases to keep things interesting. I had a lot less debt than most. Since I was an underpaid intern and resident 4 of the last 5 years, it's taken me a little longer to get started paying them off but I should have them done by this time next year if not sooner. The only drawback for me now is I have to live in a city I don't particularly like that is fairly far away from family because that's where the job was. If I had gone the rural GP route, I could be at home with my family, but it would be more of a struggle because I'd probably be making 1/2 to 2/3 of what I make now. I don't think I would be as happy in GP, but I could probably have made it work. I know not everyone's as lucky as I've been though, and if I had $300,000 in loans like a few of my friends I might be singing a different tune.

What would I do if I went back in time and chose something else? I don't know. I majored in ag but also have taken a bunch of courses in web and graphic design, so maybe I'd go into ag marketing or something.

I do think I could be equally happy as I am now without vet school though. The path would have been different and maybe I'd be in a different place in my life, but yeah. No regrets, but I also don't think I'd do it again.
 
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I'm only 3 years out, so maybe i just haven't worked long enough to be bitter/burnt out yet.

I hope you continue to love it! Enjoy it as much as you can and try to continue seeing the positives for as long as you can. Maybe you’ll continue to be happy forever.

I don’t know why, but after seeing DVMDream, TT and LIS’s posts, this thread really hit me. Because I feel like all of our trajectories were similar. Started out happy and excited to be in practice. For a year or two, like super excited, I think fulfilled by the continual growth as a clinician. And it seems like by around 2-3 years when we’ve become competent and comfortable with ourselves as clinicians, then we started saying, “yeah I still love it, BUT...” And then somewhere in the 4-5 years we would kind of disappear from the forums for a while, posting minimally, as we stewed on making sense of why we are so frustrated with our careers, and then emerge like super jaded. So much so, that half of us have essentially left regular clinical practice altogether.

My three vet school besties all want OUT and feel similarly. We’re all decent vets and we like to talk about how awesome it would be if we could just start a practice all together so we didn’t have to deal with all of the bull****. Obviously it doesn’t work like that, and we all know it. But this line of discussion tells me that we want so badly to be happy working as a vet, and that we actually enjoy the job description, just not how we’re treated in practice.

A lot of my classmates who express their feelings seem to share similar sentiments. And I know there are few classmates who at first glance on social media seem happy, but who knows how they feel. I know a couple of them who are happy enough that they still wouldn’t see themselves ever leaving their position. But I feel like those people are in the minority.

It makes me so sad because I truly love being a veterinarian.
 
For what it's worth for the applicants and incoming first years, we were given the results for satisfaction surveys for graduates from 2013 to 2018 (3 and 1 year out for several years, then 1 year out for several years). With number of responses not toping 40 people in classes of 110-120 across those classes, the satisfaction for vet med varies from 58.8% for 2018 1 year out to 96% for 2013. 2014 had a satisfaction of 94% the first year out, but it dropped to 82% by 3 years out. Again, this is from an average of 20ish responses. But I wonder if those numbers are consistent across schools.
 
I hope you continue to love it! Enjoy it as much as you can and try to continue seeing the positives for as long as you can. Maybe you’ll continue to be . So much so, that half of us have essentially left regular clinical practice altogether.

I'd leave if I could afford to, but ER on prosal in a ridiculously busy ER/referral hospital that charges what we do is just too lucrative given my life circumstances. Can't afford to leave.

It makes me so sad because I truly love being a veterinarian.

QFT.

For what it's worth for the applicants and incoming first years, we were given the results for satisfaction surveys for graduates from 2013 to 2018 (3 and 1 year out for several years, then 1 year out for several years). With number of responses not toping 40 people in classes of 110-120 across those classes, the satisfaction for vet med varies from 58.8% for 2018 1 year out to 96% for 2013. 2014 had a satisfaction of 94% the first year out, but it dropped to 82% by 3 years out. Again, this is from an average of 20ish responses. But I wonder if those numbers are consistent across schools.

Huh. In light of MB's 'timeline' (1 yr, 2-3 yrs, 4-5 yrs changes in feelings) that's awfully interesting. It's worth noting that sounds fairly self-selecting. And what was the purpose of surveying them for satisfaction? My 'insider' experience is that their numbers are absolute whack. *shrug*

Anyhoo.

I'm not really trying to talk any specific person out of vet school or anything. There are satisfied people in the field. And I hope any individual here that pursues it falls into that category. This is just my experience, and an experience I see echoed more often than not. I just know that this is one of those "turn to your left .... turn to your right .... of the three of you, only one of you is going to enjoy your job" kinda things, so out of all the people in this forum, most of you are going to struggle with job satisfaction in this field. Not all of you. But most.

If I were a pre-vet, I don't think the question to be asking is "do I want to be a vet" (because the answer to that is obviously yes), I'd be asking myself "do I want to be a vet along with the QoL issues that seem to plague so many vets" and then, if so, "what's my strategy for managing or avoiding that going to be?"

Maybe it's managing your finances so you can take a job at a GP that emphasizes QoL (I had a job offer at a practice that does 45-minute appointments, where doctors really do get sufficient time to do charts and take lunch, support each other well, fairly low drama -- I know this to be true because I shadowed there both before and during vet school for a few hundred hours. But the pay was ... ouch.).

Maybe it's specialization in radiology so you can sit at home in your underwear and do telemedicine whilest drinking a beer. Or, yanno, a different specialty.

Maybe it's - like a lot of vets recently? - doing relief work so you can pick and choose where you work and never have to be at the same 'grind' day in and day out, as well as setting your own schedule.

Maybe it's not being in clinical practice at all and pursuing something else, like public health or research.

Etc. There are strategies. But plan ahead.
 
For those that have graduated, how does one get an internship +/- a residency? From my understanding, not everyone matches. So what can we do to set ourselves up to get one should we want one? Grades? Networking/strong recommendations? Not limiting ourselves geographically?

(I don’t personally know what I want to do after vet school - very open-minded right now - but I’d like to set myself up to have options if that’s even possible. And I am definitely not a super gunner; I sit squarely in the wanting to see everyone succeed camp 🙂 )
 
Huh. In light of MB's 'timeline' (1 yr, 2-3 yrs, 4-5 yrs changes in feelings) that's awfully interesting. It's worth noting that sounds fairly self-selecting. And what was the purpose of surveying them for satisfaction? My 'insider' experience is that their numbers are absolute whack. *shrug*

It was a part of the document they're using as part of our COE site visit for accreditation, which they sent to students back in the latish fall. It's literally the last thing in the document. "Satisfaction" is just part of the graduate surveys they send out to assess where graduates are, and satisfaction is one of the questions included. It also has questions on what part of the industry you're in, how many positions you've had, where you're practicing/located, salary range, etc. Like I said, the responses are pretty low (17/120 for class of 2018), so you've got a good point its probably self-selecting. Dissatisfied people are generally more likely to reply to surveys and such than satisfied people.
 
For those that have graduated, how does one get an internship +/- a residency? From my understanding, not everyone matches. So what can we do to set ourselves up to get one should we want one? Grades? Networking/strong recommendations? Not limiting ourselves geographically?

(I don’t personally know what I want to do after vet school - very open-minded right now - but I’d like to set myself up to have options if that’s even possible. And I am definitely not a super gunner; I sit squarely in the wanting to see everyone succeed camp 🙂 )

Excellent LORs, good class rank, apply broadly. Research experience also helps (bonus if you have publications), especially if you are applying to academic positions.
 
Dissatisfied people are generally more likely to reply to surveys and such than satisfied people.

I don't agree with this. I despise surveys regardless of my satisfaction level. I'd wager those that are more fulfilled/happy are more likely to reply to a survey from the vet school. While those that aren't happy and really want to avoid anything vet med when not at work are likely to flip the bird at the survey, maybe yell a profanity and then delete it from our inbox because, honestly, we're just over it. That is, if I feel like even utilizing the ATP needed to crank up my finger at it. Most definitely not going to utilize the ATP needed to fill the damn thing out.
 
(I don’t personally know what I want to do after vet school - very open-minded right now - but I’d like to set myself up to have options if that’s even possible. And I am definitely not a super gunner; I sit squarely in the wanting to see everyone succeed camp 🙂 )
This isn’t directed toward how it get an internship/residency since I obviously don’t know how to do that yet. But I wanted to give you a piece of advice as someone who flew under the radar in undergrad: step up to the plate and don’t be afraid to pat yourself on the back. You are in a VERY coveted position. You earned it. The professors/clinicians who will teach you want you to succeed and will often go out of their way to help you do that.

In undergrad, maybe 4 professors knew me by name. I sat back and did nothing to put myself out there in ways that people in high positions would notice. It served me okay in that I got to where I wanted to be, but it was stressful because I felt like I didn’t really matter.

I turned that around in vet school and I think I found a good balance. You obviously don’t want to be that person emailing every faculty member every other day annoying the crap out of them. But you want to ask them good questions that show an understanding of what they do and a desire to learn more about it. Avoid questions that can be answered by a quick google search. You want them to know you’re a capable person who can find the answers on your own and are asking them questions to go above and beyond. Forming a positive relationship with faculty in a way that doesn’t come across as brown-nosing and may not even seem significant to you can do great things for you in your first year. When opportunities come across their desk and they want students to work with, they’ll think of you. I can’t even describe what it does for your self esteem when someone asks YOU if you want to work with them, rather than the other way around. It’s things like this that will help you form those long term professional relationships when it comes time for bigger things.
 
I don't agree with this. I despise surveys regardless of my satisfaction level. I'd wager those that are more fulfilled/happy are more likely to reply to a survey from the vet school. While those that aren't happy and really want to avoid anything vet med when not at work are likely to flip the bird at the survey, maybe yell a profanity and then delete it from our inbox because, honestly, we're just over it. That is, if I feel like even utilizing the ATP needed to crank up my finger at it. Most definitely not going to utilize the ATP needed to fill the damn thing out.

:shrug: This was just a general thing I was taught in my undergrad statistics class as a potential bias when looking at surveys or reviews.
 
:shrug: This was just a general thing I was taught in my undergrad statistics class as a potential bias when looking at surveys or reviews.
I learned the same thing, but it looks like it depends. It turns out for patient and customer satisfaction surveys, the satisfaction is often inflated as people are more likely to give a perfect score or very very high score, while only a small percentage will give a neutral or negative score.

But I’d wager the opposite might be true for a survey like this. You’re not reviewing a person or a business so the connotation of giving a good or bad score is different. I’d think people would be more likely to give bad scores here because they think they’re helping the profession to change or helping people entering the profession understand what they believe are important downsides.

That aside, I do think that highlighting the negatives of the profession is a way to get things to change. I’m not saying that’s not true. That’s just my opinion on why I think this specific type of survey may be self selecting for negative results whereas others are self selecting for positive results.
 
For those that have graduated, how does one get an internship +/- a residency? From my understanding, not everyone matches. So what can we do to set ourselves up to get one should we want one? Grades? Networking/strong recommendations? Not limiting ourselves geographically?

(I don’t personally know what I want to do after vet school - very open-minded right now - but I’d like to set myself up to have options if that’s even possible. And I am definitely not a super gunner; I sit squarely in the wanting to see everyone succeed camp 🙂 )

I cant comment on what exactly it takes to match because I’m applying this year, but I will say that keeping your mind open is an excellent idea. I came to vet school 150% sure on small animal GP and started changing my mind at the end of first year. Being open-minded and developing relationships with faculty has been a huge positive of vet school. Explore different career areas and you might find something you love more than the rest.
 
I learned the same thing, but it looks like it depends. It turns out for patient and customer satisfaction surveys, the satisfaction is often inflated as people are more likely to give a perfect score or very very high score, while only a small percentage will give a neutral or negative score.

But I’d wager the opposite might be true for a survey like this. You’re not reviewing a person or a business so the connotation of giving a good or bad score is different. I’d think people would be more likely to give bad scores here because they think they’re helping the profession to change or helping people entering the profession understand what they believe are important downsides.

That aside, I do think that highlighting the negatives of the profession is a way to get things to change. I’m not saying that’s not true. That’s just my opinion on why I think this specific type of survey may be self selecting for negative results whereas others are self selecting for positive results.

Yes, agree, for reviewing of services or products, people are much more likely to complain. People are more likely to bitch about a bad service than they are to praise an exceptional one. And patient satisfaction surveys are overwhelmingly not good, I have a friend whose entire job is to read those. People bitch like mad on those forms.

I disagree you get unhappy people filling out surveys from alma maters though more so than those that are pleased. For reasons I already stated, but also add in that the only way your alma mater can send you the surveys is if you keep them updated on your email or mailing address wherever you go. And overwhelmingly, those that do not give a crap, aren't happy and don't want to hear from them aren't going to be putting in the effort to update their alma mater with their current points of communication. I sure as crap haven't told them my current address or email address. Those the are satisfied are more likely to keep connected to and updated with their alma mater and what the school/university is doing.

I can say overwhelmingly that myself and my classmates that aren't happy haven't give two craps what the school is doing, sending out and we sure as heck don't respond, that is, if we even receive the surveys anymore. Whereas the classmates that still seem pleased are always posting crap about what the school is doing, how to keep yourself updated and connected.... blah blah blah. Like overwhelmingly, those who were ready to get the heck out and are dismayed by this profession aren't spending the extra effort to seek out their alma mater, update their email/mailing addresses on a regular basis and then fill out surveys. Way the heck too much work.
 
I cant comment on what exactly it takes to match because I’m applying this year, but I will say that keeping your mind open is an excellent idea. I came to vet school 150% sure on small animal GP and started changing my mind at the end of first year. Being open-minded and developing relationships with faculty has been a huge positive of vet school. Explore different career areas and you might find something you love more than the rest.
That’s exactly my plan! What field are you pursuing?
 
For those that have graduated, how does one get an internship +/- a residency? From my understanding, not everyone matches. So what can we do to set ourselves up to get one should we want one? Grades? Networking/strong recommendations? Not limiting ourselves geographically?

(I don’t personally know what I want to do after vet school - very open-minded right now - but I’d like to set myself up to have options if that’s even possible. And I am definitely not a super gunner; I sit squarely in the wanting to see everyone succeed camp 🙂 )

I didn't do an internship, so I'll leave that for someone who did to answer. My understanding is ... all of those things. But what do I know?

But: I'd much rather hire "wanting to see everyone succeed" than "Me first, I was a gunner and got all straight-A's."
 
:shrug: This was just a general thing I was taught in my undergrad statistics class as a potential bias when looking at surveys or reviews.

Well when you’re 1 year out of vet school, you feel like you should be happy. And if you’re unemployed or you’re trying to get out of a ****ty job, or you’re feeling like crap... you feel pretty damn shameful about it because I mean, how dare you be so unhappy about finally achieving your dreams. The last thing you want to do is fill out a survey from your vet school about how unhappy you are with your life.

This isn’t a review about vet school, so much as it is of our life. No one wants to feel like a loser and broadcast it to the world.

And as I’ve said above, plenty of people are happy with their jobs in that time frame. Many of us were. Just read our posts from back then.
 
If I were a pre-vet, I don't think the question to be asking is "do I want to be a vet" (because the answer to that is obviously yes), I'd be asking myself "do I want to be a vet along with the QoL issues that seem to plague so many vets" and then, if so, "what's my strategy for managing or avoiding that going to be?"

Maybe it's managing your finances so you can take a job at a GP that emphasizes QoL (I had a job offer at a practice that does 45-minute appointments, where doctors really do get sufficient time to do charts and take lunch, support each other well, fairly low drama -- I know this to be true because I shadowed there both before and during vet school for a few hundred hours. But the pay was ... ouch.).

Maybe it's specialization in radiology so you can sit at home in your underwear and do telemedicine whilest drinking a beer. Or, yanno, a different specialty.

Maybe it's - like a lot of vets recently? - doing relief work so you can pick and choose where you work and never have to be at the same 'grind' day in and day out, as well as setting your own schedule.

Maybe it's not being in clinical practice at all and pursuing something else, like public health or research.

Etc. There are strategies. But plan ahead.

I agree. But like, how is this sustainable? The bulk of graduates are going to have to fill the GP or ER clinician role...

I mean as someone who’s riding the relief vet bandwagon, why not get paid $85+hrs to just babysit a gp clinic for a few days where you don’t have too many responsibilities and you get to set your own hours? It’s this vicious cycle right now where fewer people want to be associates, so more hospitals keep losing associates and are desperate, and end up hiring relief vets who cost more than their regular associates while doing less work... so your associate ends up spread even thinner with more **** to deal with. People are so desperate for relief help that I feel like I can set whatever terms I want. I also know the second I say yes to becoming an associate, all of that special treatment ends. It’s human nature to give special attention to something you want, while neglecting what you already have. I like being in a position where clinics have to perpetually have to fight to have me rather than trying to just hope that I won’t muster up the energy to leave.
 
Anytime someone asks why I don't want to do GP I say that I could only see myself being happy for about 3 years, up to 5 max.

I'm working on the assumption that most people seem to feel like they've gotten a really good handle on things a new field after about 3 years, and really start hitting their stride by 5... I think I could put up with quite a lot of BS if I felt like I was still in learning mode, but not so much once I'd settled into a groove. Interesting to see that multiple veterinarians on here actually seem to have hit a wall right around that time.

If anybody needs me, I'll be over in regulatory med after graduation enjoying my 9-5 job and ridiculous number of vacation days. (Not that I'll be able to go anywhere exciting on vacation given my expected government salary... 😢 :laugh:)
 
Anytime someone asks why I don't want to do GP I say that I could only see myself being happy for about 3 years, up to 5 max.

I'm working on the assumption that most people seem to feel like they've gotten a really good handle on things a new field after about 3 years, and really start hitting their stride by 5... I think I could put up with quite a lot of BS if I felt like I was still in learning mode, but not so much once I'd settled into a groove. Interesting to see that multiple veterinarians on here actually seem to have hit a wall right around that time.

If anybody needs me, I'll be over in regulatory med after graduation enjoying my 9-5 job and ridiculous number of vacation days. (Not that I'll be able to go anywhere exciting on vacation given my expected government salary... 😢 :laugh:)

A wise one, you are! I wish I’d had your foresight.

Though if I had felt that way, I’m not sure I would have become a vet.
 
I would say no it’s not worth it. You take abuse from clients, staff, and/or colleagues on a weekly basis. I just got cursed at and hung up on by a client that was having a temper tantrum about me not recommending that he takes his puppy out for neighborhood walks until after his last parvo shot which he needs one more because he is less than 18 weeks. The client spewed out the f word several times at me then I think he hung up but then tells the staff that I hung up on him. I’ve never hung up on a client even though I’ve wanted too in the past :whistle:
The debt load is ridiculous to deal with compared to what you get paid. What you do is never enough...for anyone. Anyways I actually would enjoy my work in GP have it not be for bad management, bad clients we can’t fire,and awful debt. I only have in the mid to high $100,000 in vet school debt. I can’t imagine $300,000 or over. One day I’ll transition to specialty and/or full time freelance research like I do part time. Sad because I really like the work...

Maybe my mind will change once my vet school debt is paid off and I won’t need to work three jobs including full time at the clinic just to make dents in my debt. It’s very trapping.
 
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And I remember hearing the news from high school friends that a veterinary colleague and a fellow former high school classmate committed suicide about three or four years ago. We graduated the same year from vet school but different schools. I still can’t believe he’s gone.
 
I've been watching this thread and trying to decide how to answer it.

I'm a 2016 grad, same as DVMD I believe. Started in SA/exotics private practice a couple months after graduating and I've been at that same clinic since then. Excluding recently - understaffed and overworked mostly due to covid shenanigans, but not completely - I'm generally pretty happy.

I graduated with less debt than most so I'm making a good dent in it. I see a varied caseload because of our location and our functioning somewhat like an urgent care, which is fun medically. We have fun toys. My suggestions are often taken when decisions are made for the clinic, and my medical judgements are only once in a blue moon questioned. (And when they are, it's by doctors and generally warranted, not lay staff).

But even from a couple months of being understaffed, I get how frustrating that would be, long term. I'm grumpy recently, and more short tempered. I'm tired. I'm tired of catching constant mistakes and having to go behind on every single thing I ask people to do and functioning as an assistant, tech and doctor all day. I'm tired of my staff member who is trained to do things but who I don't trust at all, but at this point just having a body is more important than anything. I hate that one of our best people is leaving next week and we have zero known plans to replace her and so I'm going to be doing even more of my tech work starting then.

The clinic down the street from me is hiring, and for the first time literally since graduating, I'm kinda thinking... if I'm gonna be tired and frustrated, maybe doing it with a five minute commute would be nicer than my almost two hours every day. And my current contract is up in August.

Minnerbelle's:
Based on my experience, I feel like Of the small proportion of the people who are truly happy with their nonspecialized clinical jobs (as in GP or ER) most are either beaten into submission into realizing that their position “isn’t as bad as what could be out there” or they have a carefree personality where they just don’t seem bothered when they’re shat on, or they still have their rose colored glasses and need a couple years... I know very few people who truly feel like they’ve won the jackpot with their jobs who have been there 5+years.

made me pause, because I don't know what I am here. Have I just settled? I'm pretty type B/relaxed, definitely so by typical vet standards - am I just missing the ****? I don't know.

I'd still do it again. But hey, maybe ask me in a couple more years.
 
Minnerbelle's:


made me pause, because I don't know what I am here. Have I just settled? I'm pretty type B/relaxed, definitely so by typical vet standards - am I just missing the ****? I don't know.

I'd still do it again. But hey, maybe ask me in a couple more years.

You seem to be right on track at the “I’m still happy with my decision... BUT” phase. Give it a couple of years!

Hopefully you’ll find your groove and things will get better than the current. I truly do. I know at least 2 doctors who have been out 10 years and still love love what they do without qualifiers (both part timers so maybe that’s their secret), so hopefully you end up one of them.

But I think from my experience and others, it’s not uncommon for the “...but recently” to become more of a regular frustration, and then the things that didn’t bother you before start to really eat away at you. If you look up above, your post sounds similar to where I was at 4 years out.
 
And I am the one who was fairly over it and annoyed within 4-6 months post graduation. I think it is because I have dealt with bull**** and abuse my entire life and then to expect me to roll over and take it at work too, never sat well with me. I had learned to never accept that crap again and then you have a system in this career that has forever demanded that its members just take abuse when any therapist/professional would tell you the opposite. And, well, it is a recipe for disaster.

I have been taught a proper way to avoid and not accept being abused and was stuck into a field that for decades has just accepted abuse lying down and cater to the abusers rather than the abused staff. So I am the sore thumb trying to improve things saying it isn't ok and you have those in power saying to basically "shut up and deal with it". So I was fairly annoyed early off.

Especially because there is no reason for things to be the way that they are in the field. Things could be so much better, nicer and allow for less stress and frustration and for an enjoyable work environment, but this field has decided to just continue to tolerate crap and I don't see that changing anytime in the near future.
 
... DVMDream, TT and LIS ... And then somewhere in the 4-5 years we would kind of disappear from the forums for a while, posting minimally, as we stewed on making sense of why we are so frustrated with our careers, and then emerge like super jaded. ...

Well, to be fair - I never did leave. I may not post as much, but that's probably just because I relate with the new kids less and less and I don't tend to watch the individual school threads anymore. But I'm always here. Weird how much this place is a part of my life, even if it just gets a quick browse here or there.

And I think I was jaded by about 2nd semester 1st year, so... jumped the gun on that one a bit. :laugh:

I honestly never fell in love with veterinary medicine as a GP. Maybe I was on to something when I wanted to do clin path, but I didn't have the patience or the... work ethic? Ability? Brains? IDK, something made it hard to even get through vet school much less excel enough to make it into some sort of program. And the idea of going back for a residency and then boards, even if a school would have me, is quite unpleasant.

No, I found another way to use my degree and not have to really do 'medicine' anymore. I don't think I was terrible at it, but I doubted myself a lot. Maybe the clinic I was at didn't give me a good foundation for growth. Maybe I was reluctant to leave my comfort zone. I dunno. But it's so weird because this new job is more the part that I always figured I'd hate (dealing with people! and emotions! yuck!) and less of what I honestly thought I'd like (clinical stuff, medicine, surgery, dentistry) and uhhhhh yeah I'm totes okay with the swap. Maybe I'm dumb and you shouldn't ask me to help diagnose things, but if you need someone to help your client through something difficult in the best way possible, I'm your gal. I have time, I have the experience (my numbers still don't compare to you ER docs but I'm definitely comfortable with my process), and I think I do a good job of supporting without laying it on too thick. It's peaceful. I'm not a peaceful person! I'm bright and it's really loud inside my head! But it works. I dunno.

That ended up rambly.

I'll never go back to GP unless my husband like, loses his job or something bad like that. And I'll hate it if I do. Otherwise I'll do what I do and teach for some extra money, perhaps. I'm not surprised I like teaching though - I like being the center of attention and public speaking has never scared me. :shrug:
 
I'll never go back to GP unless my husband like, loses his job or something bad like that. And I'll hate it if I do. Otherwise I'll do what I do and teach for some extra money, perhaps. I'm not surprised I like teaching though - I like being the center of attention and public speaking has never scared me. :shrug:

What would you want to teach?
 
So to those of you who are vets or are later on in vet school, if you had the opportunity to go back and pick a different career path, would you?
I have been having serious second thoughts about whether vet med is right for me, which I can’t tell if it’s just from anxiety/fear that I’m not good enough or if I’m truly not fit for being a vet. I’ve been researching other careers, so I’m wondering if I should even consider vet school anymore.
Probably got me at a bad time with this question because like...covid is making me hate my job a lot more than I usually do.

If I had to go back I'd probably choose a different career path. I was the kid who always knew this is what I was meant to do and did it. I put all my experiences into working towards this goal. I had fun, too, but mostly I was trying to go into it eyes wide open.

I own my own clinic. I'm tired of every client looking for a handout for medical care for their pets (it's not truly every client but even the 10% that do are fatiguing). I'm tired of people telling me how much I don't care if I can't give it to them. I'm tired of having animals with fixable issues get ignored by their owners. I'm tired of people dismissing my degree because they found something on google. I educate them but it doesn't always matter (the big ones here are nDCM and heartworm disease). I'm tired of treating preventable diseases and finding that I talked to the owner about how to prevent them for years before they became an issue. I'm tired of owners yelling at me because their last vet did something one way and we do it a different way. I'm tired of being yelled at for taking health precautions seriously in the time of COVID. I had a long time client within the last month who did not want curbside and told us he'd only return to us when we were doing masks only. I'm tired of working on rapport with people only to find they went down the street for vet care because we couldn't get them in the exact same day for an ear infection (or any other non-urgent client "emergency). I'm tired of being told I'm only in it for the money. Or that I'm out to cheat them, etc. We had a client who saw my prius in the parking lot and bitched about how their money bought that. I saved for years for a down payment and bought it new with 0% interest in my 30s...because my other car (that I traded in) was 11 years old.

And those things wear on me every day. It might be that I'm GP, but the big saves don't come that often in GP. We build relationships with people and that means we celebrate with them, but we also cry with them when their pets can't be saved or don't have quality of life. I still think euthanasia is a gift, but it does wear on you with enough time, bonding, and exposure. I like the medical aspect of vet med. And I like that I stay pretty calm in the moment of an emergency (but @LetItSnow can tell you I freak out afterwards and ask him all the ER questions). I like helping pets. But at some point that isn't enough. And the freaking in-fighting is terrible AND clients always want you to pick a freaking side.

The loans are a part of it, too. They weigh on me daily. I haven't paid mine off yet because I graduated during the recession and even finding a job was difficult. The pay isn't great in my area. I've had medical issues that impact loan payment. Etc. I'm due to pay them in under 10 years but it's still something that I think slows you down to a significant degree and the benefits of the job should be higher than what they are to make it all "worth it"

I don't know what I'd do. Maybe focus more on research or even human med options.
 
What would you want to teach?

I have taught human anatomy and biology thus far. I actually didn't like biology that much - the kids were too young and I didn't like having to cover like, electron orbitals and photosynthesis. Blech. Anatomy is good. I probably wouldn't mind physiology either.

It just doesn't pay great, but once you've done it a few times it's more automatic. The first round of making all the lecture ppts is a biiiiiitch tho.
 
And I like that I stay pretty calm in the moment of an emergency (but @LetItSnow can tell you I freak out afterwards and ask him all the ER questions).

B.S. Every time you ask me about a case, you've already done all the things that you can do given the equipment and medications and owner constraints applied to you. Knock it off, rock star.

But holy heck - that paragraph you had about all the things owners lay on us. It's like a bingo card from hell that illustrates my life, too.
 
I'm tired of treating preventable diseases and finding that I talked to the owner about how to prevent them for years before they became an issue.

My favorite example that is kind of along these lines, was this lady who is livid about how bad her cat's teeth are and how he is in "so much pain" and going on and on about it. She is screaming at me that our dental schedule is backed up a few weeks. The cat's teeth needed to be done, but not like purulent discharge pouring out of mouth level. We had been telling her for not 1, not 2, no even 3, 4 or 5 years to get her cat's teeth cleaned. We had been recommending a dental for her cat for 10 ****ing years. 10 years. And she would not stop bitching about how he had to wait another 3 weeks.

I did finally say, "well, it looks like Kitty here has had dental disease for the last decade and we had recommended a dental every year for the last 10 years but you never came to get it done, so since you didn't address Kitty's dental disease in the last decade and declined to have his teeth done for 10 years, I think 3 more weeks is probably not going to make a large difference." Probably not my most graceful of comments, but damn I was sick of it. Don't blame me that you cat will have to "suffer in pain" for 3 weeks because "I don't care" when you allowed him to suffer for a damn decade.
 
My favorite example that is kind of along these lines, was this lady who is livid about how bad her cat's teeth are and how he is in "so much pain" and going on and on about it. She is screaming at me that our dental schedule is backed up a few weeks. The cat's teeth needed to be done, but not like purulent discharge pouring out of mouth level. We had been telling her for not 1, not 2, no even 3, 4 or 5 years to get her cat's teeth cleaned. We had been recommending a dental for her cat for 10 ****ing years. 10 years. And she would not stop bitching about how he had to wait another 3 weeks.

I did finally say, "well, it looks like Kitty here has had dental disease for the last decade and we had recommended a dental every year for the last 10 years but you never came to get it done, so since you didn't address Kitty's dental disease in the last decade and declined to have his teeth done for 10 years, I think 3 more weeks is probably not going to make a large difference." Probably not my most graceful of comments, but damn I was sick of it. Don't blame me that you cat will have to "suffer in pain" for 3 weeks because "I don't care" when you allowed him to suffer for a damn decade.
I wanna know what she did and if management backed you up. I don't think they did but I want to hope so.
 
My favorite example that is kind of along these lines, was this lady who is livid about how bad her cat's teeth are and how he is in "so much pain" and going on and on about it. She is screaming at me that our dental schedule is backed up a few weeks. The cat's teeth needed to be done, but not like purulent discharge pouring out of mouth level. We had been telling her for not 1, not 2, no even 3, 4 or 5 years to get her cat's teeth cleaned. We had been recommending a dental for her cat for 10 ****ing years. 10 years. And she would not stop bitching about how he had to wait another 3 weeks.

I did finally say, "well, it looks like Kitty here has had dental disease for the last decade and we had recommended a dental every year for the last 10 years but you never came to get it done, so since you didn't address Kitty's dental disease in the last decade and declined to have his teeth done for 10 years, I think 3 more weeks is probably not going to make a large difference." Probably not my most graceful of comments, but damn I was sick of it. Don't blame me that you cat will have to "suffer in pain" for 3 weeks because "I don't care" when you allowed him to suffer for a damn decade.
I have one right now that I saw a couple months ago. Shar pei with itching. Recommended apoquel for her because the skin looked mostly healthy and I thought related to atopy. Owner declined, wanted other options, so we tried. It didn't work. She finally picked up the apoquel a week or 2 ago? A few days later, moist dermatitis occurred. They didn't want to use the topical they had, we sent home a new one. Now they're demanding to be seen to "get to the bottom of this" problem. That could have all been avoided if she had listened in the first place. I was trying to avoid oral abx with her but nope.
 
Honestly, I’m really liking the curb-side deal right now. But I’m also actively looking for another job outside of GP, so.

most days I enjoy it because everyone waits outside, but it can really make client communication super frustrating! I end up often just going out to the car to talk to the owners which kind of defeats the purpose, lol
 
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