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[beattheprocess]

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[DokterMom]

Yes, this looks like box-checking, because box-checking is exactly what you're doing.

Forget about medical school for a moment and think about what you could do just to make the world a better place -- something you would find meaningful that offered you a way to contribute using your own particular strengths. Or identify a need or problem in your community and find a way to alleviate that suffering.

Then do that.

 

[candbgirl]

Yes it definitely looks like box checking. And despite what you think there is no way you can absolutely know you want to be a doctor without shadowing. And even then people change their minds. Find a primary care doc and shadow him for a few days. You need around 50 hours of shadowing. You might want to consider a gap year so you have a chance to think about and pursue the great advice @DokterMom gave you.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I have no shadowing so far but I have scheduled a time with a radiologist on January 3rd. This worries me because it's the same year I'm applying and again, would this look like box checking? I know regardless of the shadowing experience is like I still want to be a doctor.

2) I'm considering doing research next fall after I take my MCAT, which again, would it look like box checking? I have a feeling it's going to be yes for all 3. The solution from what I hear would be to take a gap year but for financial reasons, I really don't want to.

3) I currently have around 140 hours clinical volunteering in that hospital across various departments for a duration of about 10 months starting fall of 2017. I stopped going because it was nearly all cleaning beds and restocking supplies. I'm looking to get a volunteer position at a different hospital for a change of scenery next summer, when they're accepting new volunteers, and hopefully they'll let me do more interesting tasks. Probably gets me about 50 hours before application time. Would this look like box checking?

4) As for leadership I did help train a few new volunteers while at the hospital but I didn't have an official title.

1) Shadowing is the one EC where you can do it at the last minute. But applying with only Radiology shadowing isn't a good idea. It won't give you a clear view of what a typical physician's day is like. Add some primary care, office-based, longitudinal shadowing and you'll be good. A total of about 50 hours between the two is a good goal.

2) So how many months of research would you have by the time you apply?

3) I think you'd be OK, if you have what you've projected, but you may get caught short due to the requirements to start volunteering, like limited orientation dates and required tests and titers before you can begin.

4) You can do better.

Please reassure me you are not planning to apply the fall of 2019, when the application window is nearly over and you'd be at a severe disadvantage and likely end up reapplying the following season. For the best odds, one plans to apply in June or July. And that means a spring or early summer MCAT date

 

[beeboops]

You absolutely need some form of patient contact outside of shadowing. Think scribing or volunteering in a free clinic. I can’t imagine cleaning beds and restocking supplies are going to resonate much with adcoms. You may also want to consider beefing up your non-clinical volunteering. To avoid box checking, pick something you’re passionate about. For example, if you love reading, find an after school program where you can help kids learning to read. If you do something you’re passionate about, that passion will shine through in your application and interviews.

Finally, don’t be scared of a gap year. I understand that you have financial considerations and those shouldn’t be taken lightly, but you can gain so much experience in many different things when you’re not also focused on school.

 

[Rusrus]

You should also look to increase your clinical experience in terms of patient encounters. If you were to be asked about clinical experience and you mention simply changing beds and running non-patient centered errands in the hospital, that'd be a ding against you as it really isn't considered "clinical volunteering." I recommend looking into hospice care, free healthcare clinics, etc.

At this point in time, I would recommend a gap year simply because insufficient extracurriculars can truly ruin an otherwise strong applicant's chances of being accepted into medical school.

 

[Catalystik]

1) 0 research, I've seen posts on here people say it's not that important so...

2) I was thinking about submitting in August of 2019. Too late? By the end of July I think I get about 200 clinical hours and about 150 nonclinical.

3) It was position in the ER that was technically clinical but the things I actually got to do were cleaning things. Sometimes I got to transport patients but it was mostly waiting and cleaning.

1) True, for programs that are not research-oriented.

2) After submitting, it takes 4-6 weeks for transcript verification at that time of year, once you enter the queue. MCAT scores come back in about a month. It would be days to weeks before Secondary application invitations are sent to you. Overall, it would be quite late in the season before you were complete at all your schools. After Labor Day, would be considered "Late."

3) Transporting patients is considered "clinical." So is any patient interaction like offering water or snacks and idle chit chat.

 

[Blanky]

You could consider like part time scribe work for hours and maybe get a LOR.
Also might be nice to shadow IM, FM, or peds.

 

[Catalystik]

1) Would KU be considered a research-oriented school? It's mission statement includes research but I've seen people get accepted without it.

2) I was thinking about doing early decision with a recommended deadline of July 1st. I would have less time for the hospital position that I'm assuming that I'm going to get but

3) for the nonclinical position I could theoretically go in 8 hours a day for 6 days a week.

1) Not so much, but applicants without research generally have another category that is stronger than average. State schools like to train primary care docs, but applicant ECs should support that goal it they want to make that pitch.

2) You'd need to have an MCAT score back. Can you manage taking it (and doing well) that much earlier? Also, there are other downsides to Early Decision that you should Search out in other threads on this site.

3) That pretty much screams "last minute box checking."

 

[doc05]

Your application is very weak. You're also doing yourself a disservice by committing to a career without actually knowing much about it. At this point, you should delay application. You'll need 1-2 gap years .

 

[beeboops]

And from what I understood I could just list a broad date range and the total amount of hours, which would look more like a long term commitment, right?

You can cook the numbers however you want, but if there's anything suspect looking (e.g., 20 hours volunteering per week while in school full time with another 20 hours of part-time employment), then there's a chance schools will reach out to your activity contact to verify, or (and I believe this is more likely), they'll just set you aside because your numbers seem off.

Just take the dang gap year.

 

[Catalystik]

1) So... Better off doing regular decision which would give me more time to volunteer, shadow, etc?

2) I'm planning to take the MCAT in late May.

3) And from what I understood I could just list a broad date range and the total amount of hours, which would look more like a long term commitment, right?

1) Yes.

2) Good. But you will need to factor in some dedicated study starting next term.

3) Future hours on the application don't factor into decision making, as they all too often get sidelined for one reason or another. Best to use the provided option of multiple time ranges (up to four of them), like hours completed and hours projected, for transparency.

BTW: If you'd have completed 13 months of nonmedical community service by June, that would would be considered a long-term commitment.

 

[Catalystik]

1) I don’t intend to put any projected hours. What I hope to put is 150 or so hours completed from May 2018 to June/July 2019.
2) Also can an employee or someone I work with be a contact for the activity? There is an event organizer in the emails I get when I sign up for shifts but I’ve never actually met him.

1) Sorry I misunderstood. Having 150 hours over 14 months would "look good."

2) Yes, so long as they can attest to timeframe of involvement and roughly the hours of involvement, you can use a co-worker or an employee who knows you. Be sure you have their contact email or phone number as that is required by to fill in the application.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm seriously struggling to find a primary care doctor to shadow. The "programs" in my nearby hospitals all require me to know a doctor that agreed for me to shadow them beforehand for me to shadow them. I tried cold calling, but also no luck. I'm still looking but how much would it hurt to not have any primary care shadowing?

It depends on where you're applying. As you don't yet have an MCAT score that tells us how competitive you are, you are best off developing an application that will have broad appeal to many programs, especially KU.

Maybe the radiologist you are already set to shadow can refer you to a primary care doc after you get to know each other.

Since you aren't in a position to meet physicians through your volunteer venue, did you contact your own physician back home about perhaps (intense) shadowing over the spring break back home? What about the docs of parents? What about physician parents of friends?

You might be interested to know the essay prompts from KUs Secondary application, so you can strategize on how to answer them: 2018-2019 University of Kansas

 

[Catalystik]

1) Challenge question: I have a very disfunctional family but it really hasn’t affected me that much. Possible to make it work?

2) For the question about making your community a better place to live, are they asking about your volunteer activities or things you did besides your volunteer activities?

1) Yes.

2) They refer to your community contributions, which could be volunteer or paid.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Box checking is to an extent necessary. The challenge is then doing something beyond that. Doesn’t have to be “impressive” or “unique” but should help you grow as a person and help you define who you are (as well as be able to communicate that to others).

 

[bceagle411]

And despite what you think there is no way you can absolutely know you want to be a doctor without shadowing. .

Never say never. I did 100 hours of shadowing on paper but that was 1 day with a neurologist and 10 days over 2 weeks with an anesthesiologist to see both surgery and anesthesia. There are a ton of paths you can take that let you know you want to be a doctor, shadowing and doing volunteer scut work at a hospital are pretty low down

 

[candbgirl]

Never say never. I did 100 hours of shadowing on paper but that was 1 day with a neurologist and 10 days over 2 weeks with an anesthesiologist to see both surgery and anesthesia. There are a ton of paths you can take that let you know you want to be a doctor, shadowing and doing volunteer scut work at a hospital are pretty low down

So you lied/ falsified information on your application?

 

[deleted87051]

Yes it definitely looks like box checking. And despite what you think there is no way you can absolutely know you want to be a doctor without shadowing.

You realize that required shadowing is a very recent phenomena, right? I never did any shadowing before I applied to medical school. There are many generations of happily practicing doctors who never shadowed. I honestly think required shadowing is stupid. It gives a snapshot of a very diverse and complicated field and it’s just as easy to get the wrong impression as it is to get a realistic picture.

 

[bceagle411]

So you lied/ falsified information on your application?

No, I put down 100 hours of shadowing because it was a total of 100 hours. In the section to explain I talked about shadowing both in a neurology clinic and in the OR of a local hospital. I didnt say the timeframe