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IMG69

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  1. Medical Student
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Leave your friends out of it, they cannot save you and you can only hurt them

You missed a number of things including one potentially big safety violation.

Also who said to start at the right hip for the spleen? Do the europeans have different spleens than american?

Sorry you going through this
 
Yes but the point is everybody misses things, it's first year, it's more about technique etc we've done these on real patients too on placement. Another example is I moved to the left side of the patient to ballot the kidney, feedback says I should've stayed on the right, that kinda stuff isn't worth failing someone for? Especially in first year? In my opinion at least :/

Well our handout does lol.

I don't know what to do, i've asked my friend who just graduated for advice but this is 100% going to be a he said she said. I really just want them to record our OSCE's which they refuse to do, even though they record us when we practice with the exact same patients they won't record it when it matters??

Very good point about my friends though. I definitely won't mention names.
 
IMG69 said:
Yes but the point is everybody misses things, it's first year, it's more about technique etc, I moved to the left side of the patient to ballot the kidney, feedback says I should've stayed on the right, that kinda stuff isn't worth failing someone for? Especially in first year? In my opinion at least :/

Well our handout does lol.

I don't know what to do, i've asked my friend who just graduated for advice but this is 100% going to be a he said she said. I really just want them to record our OSCE's which they refuse to do, even though they record us when we practice with the exact same patients they won't record it when it matters??
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You are likely overestimating your mastery of technique. If you enter that room with a gameplan of “the scorekeeper is a liar” it will not go well

I suggest expressing self awareness of the things you missed and having a clear plan of how you intend to address your shortcomings. Sprinkle in some sincere appeals to mercy and appreciation for them considering a second chance
 
I know my technique is definitely not the best but I emphasize the point of these OSCE's for first year is to just go through the motions etc I still have 3 more years of OSCE's where I would think some of the comments I receive are much more applicable and are as second year is where we start ddxing for OSCE's.

I mean I did very well on most other physical exams.

This is why essentially nobody fails, 2/130 this year, 1/130 last year.

I thought I 100% passed OSCE's without a doubt in my mind, I really enjoy them, definitely no poor mindset going into them.

I have a resit 100% the point of this is to try and fight what really is just plain lies on my feedback so i'm not forced to do the resit.
 
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IMG69 said:
the point of this is to try and fight what really is just plain lies on my feedback so i'm not forced to do the resit.
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When trying to get out of a hole, one does not dig deeper.

Do you really think it is less likely that you made some mistakes and misremembered some details than that the evaluators at every station conspired to fail you?
 
IMG69 said:
Yes but the point is everybody misses things, it's first year, it's more about technique etc we've done these on real patients too on placement. Another example is I moved to the left side of the patient to ballot the kidney, feedback says I should've stayed on the right, that kinda stuff isn't worth failing someone for? Especially in first year? In my opinion at least :/

Well our handout does lol.
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Yes, everybody misses things. And it sounds like you missed 2+% more than the rest of your classmates. It wasn't any single one of those mistakes that got you a fail - it was the accumulation of enough of them to not meet the standard.
Nobody's out to get you. You just weren't as good at it as you thought you were.
So you should take this for the learning experience that it is. Go in humbly, say you thought you had practiced enough and gotten it down, but clearly not, and ask for help from your faculty before the remediation. Then accept the help they give, get more from your classmates/upperclassmen, then go fix it in the remediation - and move on. This is not that big of a deal in the long run. You're a 1st year. Nobody will care once you remediate and it won't even be worth mentioning - or memorable at all - by graduation.

Keep in mind, that when you're being told to do something *in a very particular way* it's for a reason. Like that sharps container on a chair - you may think it's no big deal, but it's a real safety hazard that is preventable. If you don't know the reason for something, then ask. But none of the motions or checklist items in an OSCE are random or on a whim. They all matter. So learn to do them correctly.
 
sb247 said:
You missed a number of things including one potentially big safety violation.
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Id hate to go to whatever medical school you guys are going to where they are going to fail, and potentially hold students back because they put items on a chair instead of a counter.
 
Does your school record video/audio during OSCEs?
 
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Why are you even touching a sharps container for an Osce? Your spleen exam also sounds completely incorrect. Judging by how you wrote your post, you're incredibly overconfident. I know you're a UK student, but you're still year 1/5. You don't know anything.

Regardless, it's essentially a right of passage to get a bogus unfair grade from an Osce or practical because they're completely subjective. If you ever plan to take the CS, guess what, it's the same way. The fact you're getting so heated over this means you probably aren't cut out for med school.
 
Rekt said:
Why are you even touching a sharps container for an Osce? Your spleen exam also sounds completely incorrect. Judging by how you wrote your post, you're incredibly overconfident. I know you're a UK student, but you're still year 1/5. You don't know anything.

Regardless, it's essentially a right of passage to get a bogus unfair grade from an Osce or practical because they're completely subjective. If you ever plan to take the CS, guess what, it's the same way. The fact you're getting so heated over this means you probably aren't cut out for med school.
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In regards to the spleen exam our examination techniques are essentially the same as the Geeky medics youtube channel - unaware if you know them or not but they're a rather big UK OSCE channel.

For bloods/injection procedures, they put all of the equipment on a table and we have to select the correct things to bring, e.g purple vacuole tubes instead of yellow etc. So naturally we have to bring the sharps bin over as well. There was essentially no where else to put it other than move a chair closer and as I stated I felt rude putting it on the examiners desk and i didn't want to put it next to the patients arm in case they flinch while I insert the needle. I also lost marks for saying '... this will involve me inserting a needle into your arm to draw some blood...' but the examiner wanted me to say '... use a needle to obtain a blood sample...' He said my technique was flawless but I still failed the station. I didn't take a step with the needle, i didnt cross hands, it's not like i was walking around with it, I literally just put it in the sharps bin on the chair beside me.

The fact i'm getting heated is that i've compared my feedback to my friends, 2 people out of 130 failed OSCE's - I personally felt OSCE's were my strongest area of the whole course, we have OSCE practice every week and communication skills every week with tutors where we receive feedback, we practice these exams on real patients on placement under the supervision of doctors, there were no red flags throughout the whole year that I would fail and I aced the practice OSCEs without practicing.

I don't think I was overconfident but just simply confident, I knew I would forget 2-3 theoretical pathologies (simulated patients) per station as you do when your nervous and have 5 stations in a row.

This is why i've pushed to record them, they actually force us to record our comm skill sessions with exactly the same patients, so why on earth can't we record the real thing and have that there in case any disputes are raised, they refuse to do this and i'm almost 100% certain there's bribery present at this Uni as we've all seen extremely poor/unethical practices on placements.

I completely agree with you about being 1/4 years, I know nothing but as eluded to in my above statements - there were no red flags at all during the year or during the practice examination and i've only practiced harder and learnt much more since then. This is why some of the feedback is great but I just think its extremely over the top to dock me 10% because I had my fingers flat instead of at a 15 degree angle when palpating the aorta while others only lost 1-2% for this.

I have my meeting tonight with the head of OSCEs.
 
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IMG69 said:
In regards to the spleen exam our examination techniques are essentially the same as the Geeky medics youtube channel - unaware if you know them or not but they're a rather big UK OSCE channel.

For bloods/injection procedures, they put all of the equipment on a table and we have to select the correct things to bring, e.g purple vacuole tubes instead of yellow etc. So naturally we have to bring the sharps bin over as well. There was essentially no where else to put it other than move a chair closer and as I stated I felt rude putting it on the examiners desk and i didn't want to put it next to the patients arm in case they flinch while I insert the needle. I also lost marks for saying '... this will involve me inserting a needle into your arm to draw some blood...' but the examiner wanted me to say '... use a needle to obtain a blood sample...' He said my technique was flawless but I still failed the station. I didn't take a step with the needle, i didnt cross hands, it's not like i was walking around with it, I literally just put it in the sharps bin on the chair beside me.

The fact i'm getting heated is that i've compared my feedback to my friends, 2 people out of 130 failed OSCE's - I personally felt OSCE's were my strongest area of the whole course, we have OSCE practice every week and communication skills every week with tutors where we receive feedback, we practice these exams on real patients on placement under the supervision of doctors, there were no red flags throughout the whole year that I would fail and I aced the practice OSCEs without practicing.

I don't think I was overconfident but just simply confident, I knew I would forget 2-3 theoretical pathologies (simulated patients) per station as you do when your nervous and have 5 stations in a row.

This is why i've pushed to record them, they actually force us to record our comm skill sessions with exactly the same patients, so why on earth can't we record the real thing and have that there in case any disputes are raised, they refuse to do this and i'm almost 100% certain there's bribery present at this Uni as we've all seen extremely poor/unethical practices on placements.

I completely agree with you about being 1/4 years, I know nothing but as eluded to in my above statements - there were no red flags at all during the year or during the practice examination and i've only practiced harder and learnt much more since then. This is why some of the feedback is great but I just think its extremely over the top to dock me 10% because I had my fingers flat instead of at a 15 degree angle when palpating the aorta while others only lost 1-2% for this.

I have my meeting tonight with the head of OSCEs.
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As a rough rule of thumb, those rare people who fail OSCEs at my school are too focussed on the diagnosis and forget all of the "doing the doctor" stuff that they're supposed to do. They have the "just tell me the answer" mindset, as opposed to mastering and understanding the material
 
It's quite possible that your score isn't a result of what you actually did, but how you did it. Verbal and non-verbal communication is very important. If the OSCE examiners felt you were superficial, rude, poor eye contact, etc, you might fail yet have "done everything" correctly.

Before you answer "I'm not rude or superficial", you can't assess yourself on this. Your initial post comes across as bossy, arrogant, and argumentative. Maybe the OSCE examiners were picking up on this type of attitude. But there's no way I can tell.
 
I was one of 6 people to fail the school administered OSCE and the feedback and help I was offered was less than helpful, to say the least. I know what my deficiency was but complaining and stomping my feet certainly wouldn’t have helped. I didn’t take any of the practice or school administered OSCEs seriously and it all felt incredibly superficial. I hated nothing more. My interactions with REAL patients have always been great. Once I talked myself into the seriousness of failing I did fine and obviously passed CS with flying colors. Having worn a med ed hat for a bit while doing an IM chief residency I see the value of this especially in residency but it certainly isn’t great for all learners. Personally still not a big fan of them, I found observed h and ps in real life were much more relevant.
 
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