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[yellowranger]

gpa is also non standardized - i know yada yada adcoms give more weight to 4.0 at mit than my ****ty school but the point still stands. mcat is the closest thing to standardization we have. as for the pandemic, many people have an mcat from before it ever affected them. how we choose to attempt equality/equity in this situation is not something i have any good judgement for. im sure if ur app is badass u will get love, and if not u wont.

bc if mcat isnt the end all stanford better isoge and send me an interview dattebayo

 

[deleted555445]

TLDR: Due to MCATs being delayed by/conducted during the pandemic and related inconveniences/stressors, has GPA increased in importance relative to MCAT score as a consideration for admission?

I know that Stanford and perhaps other schools are willing to review MCAT-less applications and that many had experienced difficulties registering for the exam in the late spring/early summer. My own exam was twice cancelled and taken at 6PM in a truncated form in late June.

As an applicant whose most glaring limitation is their MCAT, which is not bad at 516, but not quite on par with my 3.94 cGPA and varied/well-curated ECs, I'm interested in whether the MCAT is taking on a reduced importance this year in the application process. I have heard anecdotal reports of this and of course Stanford's policy, but here are two other points of evidence this may be the case:
1. Ubiquitous questions asking how the pandemic has affected applicants in the lead-up to their applying. This qualifies as a reasonable assumption that the pandemic has affected us all.
2. GPA is a cumulative measure over years of school, only a fraction of which would be concurrent with the pandemic. The MCAT is on a single day, and is thus more subject to a single major exogenous event, like a pandemic, which means its validity in comparison to prior years is arguably affected. Of course, the pandemic affected some more than others, which calls somewhat into question (in theory) applicants' percentile rank among other current applicants.
Again, that GPA is derived overwhelmingly from pre-pandemic would be an argument for its not being as confounded in this way and thus a better measure. Notably, many applications ask about how even this last semester of coursework or, if applying as a rising senior, that for the year to come, was affected. So if there is somewhat of an assumption that concurrent coursework was affected, you can see that logically MCAT validity would too be assumed affected.

What do you all think. Yes, I know the MCAT still matters and better beats worse, no argument there. I'm saying that for those in cases like mine where, say, for a top-tier score I"m 25th percentile or below, do you think this circumstance might better my chances of admission relative to the 520s of the world? Thanks for any input.

i think outside of certain stat-driven schools (NYU, WashU, UChicago), a 516 isn't seen as inherently much worse than a 520. it shows you can handle the rigors of medical school and will likely get a good step 2 score. so i don't think you have too much to worry about if you have killer EC's to back you up.

that being said, i dont think there will be any de-emphasis this year on the value of a score if you have one. i think the main difference this year is an understanding of a delayed score and for some people a total evaluation without a score. but if you have one, i don't see why this year it would hold any less weight, or GPA would hold any more weight, given GPA's are a lot less standardized and have also probably been affected by covid as well. if you bombed the MCAT, you wouldn't get a pass this year just because of covid. but you shouldn't worry about that, you're in the race.

 

[KnightDoc]

TLDR: Due to MCATs being delayed by/conducted during the pandemic and related inconveniences/stressors, has GPA increased in importance relative to MCAT score as a consideration for admission?

I know that Stanford and perhaps other schools are willing to review MCAT-less applications and that many had experienced difficulties registering for the exam in the late spring/early summer. My own exam was twice cancelled and taken at 6PM in a truncated form in late June.

As an applicant whose most glaring limitation is their MCAT, which is not bad at 516, but not quite on par with my 3.94 cGPA and varied/well-curated ECs, I'm interested in whether the MCAT is taking on a reduced importance this year in the application process. I have heard anecdotal reports of this and of course Stanford's policy, but here are two other points of evidence this may be the case:
1. Ubiquitous questions asking how the pandemic has affected applicants in the lead-up to their applying. This qualifies as a reasonable assumption that the pandemic has affected us all.
2. GPA is a cumulative measure over years of school, only a fraction of which would be concurrent with the pandemic. The MCAT is on a single day, and is thus more subject to a single major exogenous event, like a pandemic, which means its validity in comparison to prior years is arguably affected. Of course, the pandemic affected some more than others, which calls somewhat into question (in theory) applicants' percentile rank among other current applicants.
Again, that GPA is derived overwhelmingly from pre-pandemic would be an argument for its not being as confounded in this way and thus a better measure. Notably, many applications ask about how even this last semester of coursework or, if applying as a rising senior, that for the year to come, was affected. So if there is somewhat of an assumption that concurrent coursework was affected, you can see that logically MCAT validity would too be assumed affected.

What do you all think. Yes, I know the MCAT still matters and better beats worse, no argument there. I'm saying that for those in cases like mine where, say, for a top-tier score I"m 25th percentile or below, do you think this circumstance might better my chances of admission relative to the 520s of the world? Thanks for any input.

AAMC (which, of course, has a vested interest in the MCAT) put out an entire paper on the importance of the MCAT, the importance of continuing in person test administratons during the pandemic, the inherent unfairness of de-emphasizing it when so many applicants had already taken it, etc. Ultimately, it is up to each school (as with Stanford) to decide what to do. Your post is intriguing, but there is no way to know for sure, because everyone will have an opinion and each school will have a different answer.

516 is a great score, but you're right, it's not the same as a 3.94, which is at or well above the median everywhere. Your apps are already in, so there is nothing to do about it now, and you will have your answer soon enough as your results come in. My feeling is that you will be just fine with your 516, but you won't do any better than in any other year due to COVID, with your 3.94 counting for more and your 516 counting for less.

At the end of the day, it's just one more, albeit important, data point, and you are not the only person adversely impacted by the situation. Roughly 1/3 of all test takers after March took a 6PM test in truncated form. Others took it at 6AM, or 12PM. This benefited some as compared to an 8:30AM full length exam, and hurt others. No way to know for sure whether you were helped or hurt, or if you would have had the same exact score without a pandemic.

I think it's highly likely that you will be in the exact same position as any other year. Even Stanford is not going to ignore the score if you have one. For you to get slack due to the pandemic, someone else who did get a score in the 520s would have to not receive the benefit of their score. JMHO.

 

[Goro]

TLDR: Due to MCATs being delayed by/conducted during the pandemic and related inconveniences/stressors, has GPA increased in importance relative to MCAT score as a consideration for admission?

I know that Stanford and perhaps other schools are willing to review MCAT-less applications and that many had experienced difficulties registering for the exam in the late spring/early summer. My own exam was twice cancelled and taken at 6PM in a truncated form in late June.

As an applicant whose most glaring limitation is their MCAT, which is not bad at 516, but not quite on par with my 3.94 cGPA and varied/well-curated ECs, I'm interested in whether the MCAT is taking on a reduced importance this year in the application process. I have heard anecdotal reports of this and of course Stanford's policy, but here are two other points of evidence this may be the case:
1. Ubiquitous questions asking how the pandemic has affected applicants in the lead-up to their applying. This qualifies as a reasonable assumption that the pandemic has affected us all.
2. GPA is a cumulative measure over years of school, only a fraction of which would be concurrent with the pandemic. The MCAT is on a single day, and is thus more subject to a single major exogenous event, like a pandemic, which means its validity in comparison to prior years is arguably affected. Of course, the pandemic affected some more than others, which calls somewhat into question (in theory) applicants' percentile rank among other current applicants.
Again, that GPA is derived overwhelmingly from pre-pandemic would be an argument for its not being as confounded in this way and thus a better measure. Notably, many applications ask about how even this last semester of coursework or, if applying as a rising senior, that for the year to come, was affected. So if there is somewhat of an assumption that concurrent coursework was affected, you can see that logically MCAT validity would too be assumed affected.

What do you all think. Yes, I know the MCAT still matters and better beats worse, no argument there. I'm saying that for those in cases like mine where, say, for a top-tier score I"m 25th percentile or below, do you think this circumstance might better my chances of admission relative to the 520s of the world? Thanks for any input.

Absolutely not. The MCAT is as much an assessment of judgement as it is of competence.

And note my last sig line.

 

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[KnightDoc]

Yeah, you're right I suppose. Somehow 516 is comparable to 520 really doesn't sound true, but I sure like the sound of it.

I mean the fact of the difference being somewhat marginal is the reason I bothered asking the question. I know if I had a 508 in the context of an upper tier this would be a silly question. I guess that I'm wondering functionally whether upper tier schools might have MCAT matriculant quartiles that span a broader range. Obviously 520s are not going anywhere. At the Ivies apart from Dartmouth and Brown, for example, I'm between 15th and 25th percentile for MCAT among matriculants. It seemed plausible to me that comparing comparable applicants with higher MCAT scores perhaps from pre-pandemic, maybe that would be taken into account that I sat for my MCAT in the peak of the pandemic's effect on test taking conditions, following several cancellations. That's information available to them, because my test date did not exist until the cancellations were announced. So this is more precise version of the question I"m asking.

Overall, I'm encouraged....just was hoping beyond hope that circumstances might give me a pass on the 128 on P/S.

Bottom line, at the end of the day, regardless of how you end up doing, the only way what you are hoping will happen will happen will be if scores end up being down across the board (i.e., if 516 ends up being 98%-ile on the shortened exam rather than the 93%-ile that it currently is), THEN and only then will it be treated like a 520 due to COVID, since scores will be down across the board, and schools will be aware of that as they receive score reports. Otherwise, AAMC has been saying the score distribution will be unchanged, in which case there is no reason to de-emphasize it as an admission input.

 

[Goro]

That's an interesting point about MCAT as assessor of judgment. Do you mean in the decision of how to prepare and when to proceed with it?

Exactly. It's a high-stakes, career deciding exam, and so taking it thinking it's just like the SAT and thus you can take as many times as you want; taking it without doing any prep; or taking it when you're sick, or just had a family member die, or couldn't sleep at all the night before the exam (all true examples from SDNers) telegraphs that one has poor judgement.

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

Exactly. It's a high-stakes, career deciding exam, and so taking it thinking it's just like the SAT and thus you can take as many times as you want; taking it without doing any prep; or taking it when you're sick, or just had a family member die, or couldn't sleep at all the night before the exam (all true examples from SDNers) telegraphs that one has poor judgement.

Even SAT there is no reason take it without prep. You already have PSAT for that. Unless you got way below practiced test scores( after a good prep), most shouldn't be taking it for more than once.

 

[KnightDoc]

Even SAT there is no reason take it without prep. You already have PSAT for that. Unless you got way below practiced test scores( after a good prep), most shouldn't be taking it for more than once.

And yet most do take it more than once, without penalty. Many schools superscore, and none penalize applicants by only taking the most recent score, or averaging lower scores with higher scores, etc.

Colleges simply don't discourage multiple takes. That, and the fact that the SAT is not nearly as difficult, are two huge differences. I agree, your approach is the smartest, most efficient approach, but, unlike the MCAT, there is zero negative consequence (other than having to sit for the text again) to failing to follow it.