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[SMMN]

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This post was removed for overwhelming negative responses based on erroneous assumptions made about OP's motivation. I erroneously implied it was either going to be top 30 MD schools or zilch. The reasons are still private and personal, prestige chasing and ego stroking were wrongful accusations (and uncalled for). All I will say is that there are certain sub-careers out there that basically don't accept MD's from any med schools below a certain rank. If you have somehow stumbled upon this thread the lesson to learn is very obvious- protect your dreams and never listen to the nay Sayers. I found actual helpful answers to the central questions asked elsewhere.

 

[jhmmd]

Stats:

3.579 ucGPA
3.478 usGPA
MCAT - no attempts yet, starting to study but confident I can hit 515+

10,500 Direct Clinical Care Hours


Hi all. I have very specific reasons that I won't go into for why my life goals do not align if I go to a Med school that is ranked lower. I have read a lot of posts on this topic but not much to help me understand what will actually help me get into a t20 school (preferentially) and if not t20 then t20-t30. Most of what I hear says I shouldn't worry about ranking. But trust me I'm in a unique situation where I need to. So please do help me understand what my next best step is in pursuit of this goal.

I've been practicing as a PA (Physician Assistant) in Emergency medicine for 4 years ( this was a bachelors of science from my state school- this program had at least 300 applications for 30 seats and was cheapest in the nation at the time). Changed my career trajectory looking to start medical school within 2 years. The life story summed up is (always wanted to be an MD but had to financially support my own parents so picked PA school instead for the financial outlook- have been a disadvantaged student for sure- having worked full time through a full time load at community college on a pell grant).

Have not taken my MCAT yet. Here's my creds:

Cum GPA: 3.579 (crazy hard PA school classes on pure medicine and biology that don't count towards my science GPA apparently)

Science GPA: 3.478 (24 science classes - 94 credits) problem is all these science courses were taken at my Community college that led to an associates degree which I used to get into my BS degree.

Cumulative health care direct patient care hours: 10,500 hours (over the past decade- 7500 as a PA, 3000 as an ER Tech)

Courses needed still: 2 semesters of Physics, 2 semesters of Org chem. If I get A's in all four of these courses my science GPA only comes up to a 3.55. Maybe Calculus (if required). My basic one year of biology and chemistry were done along with my associates degree at my community college 10 years ago.

My last college course was during this bachelors 4 years ago and I have accrued some interesting extracurricular hobbies over the past 4 years like sky diving, scuba diving, mountaineering but no research or pubs.

What's my next best step to get into a top 20 MD School besides killing my MCAT ? From what I can tell a masters degree will help with the research heavy med schools up top and cover for my 94 community college credits but that doesn't touch my under grad gpa like a post bacc would (for the schools that don't even look beyond their gpa cut-offs).

I'm really confused about whether I even fit in to the "career-changer post bacc" criteria since I literally practiced medicine as a clinician for years.

This is a crisis for now since post-bacc application deadlines are on monday (and I just found this program I like at JHU) so any help is appreciated tremendously !!!

Hi, welcome to SDN.
You will need to have a very, very solid reason for "why medicine" if you are already a PA. A lot of people would consider you lucky to be a practicing PA.

I am curious about why you didn't go straight to med school if finances were a problem because doctors make a lot more money--can you explain this?

 

[emergentmd]

I read this and think of many red flags that jump out.

I can't think of one good reason why someone would have to go to a top 30 school. I guess if your parents told you they would disavow you and you would be removed from you 10M inheritance if you went to a middle of the road school.

 

[Goro]

Stats:

3.579 ucGPA
3.478 usGPA
MCAT - no attempts yet, starting to study but confident I can hit 515+

10,500 Direct Clinical Care Hours


Hi all. I have very specific reasons that I won't go into for why my life goals do not align if I go to a Med school that is ranked lower. I have read a lot of posts on this topic but not much to help me understand what will actually help me get into a t20 school (preferentially) and if not t20 then t20-t30. Most of what I hear says I shouldn't worry about ranking. But trust me I'm in a unique situation where I need to. So please do help me understand what my next best step is in pursuit of this goal.

I've been practicing as a PA (Physician Assistant) in Emergency medicine for 4 years ( this was a bachelors of science from my state school- this program had at least 300 applications for 30 seats and was cheapest in the nation at the time). Changed my career trajectory looking to start medical school within 2 years. The life story summed up is (always wanted to be an MD but had to financially support my own parents so picked PA school instead for the financial outlook- have been a disadvantaged student for sure- having worked full time through a full time load at community college on a pell grant).

Have not taken my MCAT yet. Here's my creds:

Cum GPA: 3.579 (crazy hard PA school classes on pure medicine and biology that don't count towards my science GPA apparently)

Science GPA: 3.478 (24 science classes - 94 credits) problem is all these science courses were taken at my Community college that led to an associates degree which I used to get into my BS degree.

Cumulative health care direct patient care hours: 10,500 hours (over the past decade- 7500 as a PA, 3000 as an ER Tech)

Courses needed still: 2 semesters of Physics, 2 semesters of Org chem. If I get A's in all four of these courses my science GPA only comes up to a 3.55. Maybe Calculus (if required). My basic one year of biology and chemistry were done along with my associates degree at my community college 10 years ago.

My last college course was during this bachelors 4 years ago and I have accrued some interesting extracurricular hobbies over the past 4 years like sky diving, scuba diving, mountaineering but no research or pubs.

What's my next best step to get into a top 20 MD School besides killing my MCAT ? From what I can tell a masters degree will help with the research heavy med schools up top and cover for my 94 community college credits but that doesn't touch my under grad gpa like a post bacc would (for the schools that don't even look beyond their gpa cut-offs).

I'm really confused about whether I even fit in to the "career-changer post bacc" criteria since I literally practiced medicine as a clinician for years.

This is a crisis for now since post-bacc application deadlines are on monday (and I just found this program I like at JHU) so any help is appreciated tremendously !!!

What will you do if Drexel or NYMC are your only accepts???

 

[deleted769052]

Stats:

3.579 ucGPA
3.478 usGPA
MCAT - no attempts yet, starting to study but confident I can hit 515+

No one can guarantee they'll hit a 91%ile score. Especially since you haven't even finished all of your prereqs and took a lot of them at a CC. Some kids from my undergrad with 4.0s couldn't even hit 500. You'll need 2-300 dedicated hours for the MCAT if you want to do your best. This will be the deciding factor of where you end up since your GPA can't change as much. However, you'll need to be okay with the idea of attending a lower (un)ranked MD school and even DO.

 

[Med Ed]

What's my next best step to get into a top 20 MD School besides killing my MCAT ?

Become one of their cadavers.

You've got a patchwork academic history with an okay GPA, no MCAT, no volunteering (that we know of), no research, no publications. No one will care about your hobbies. Your clinical experience will count in your favor, but it will also lead to many questions about the wisdom of changing paths and "losing" many years and a lot of money. To get a spot at a T20 you will be competing with applicants from Ivy League undergrads with superior metrics, volunteering, research, publications, leadership, etc. If you're in one of the WWAMI states you could vie for a slot at UW, but that's about it.

Unless you're comfortable attending a B20 school then stay a PA, do good work, and enjoy your life.

 

[Redpancreas]

Become one of their cadavers.

You've got a patchwork academic history with an okay GPA, no MCAT, no volunteering (that we know of), no research, no publications. No one will care about your hobbies. Your clinical experience will count in your favor, but it will also lead to many questions about the wisdom of changing paths and "losing" many years and a lot of money. To get a spot at a T20 you will be competing with applicants from Ivy League undergrads with superior metrics, volunteering, research, publications, leadership, etc. If you're in one of the WWAMI states you could vie for a slot at UW, but that's about it.

Unless you're comfortable attending a B20 school then stay a PA, do good work, and enjoy your life.

Agreed. To me it more plausible that the reasoning for OP's top 20 predilection is driven by ego. Why else would you sacrifice 7+ years of PA salary to attending medical school only if it's a "top 20", but suddenly not be willing to if it's not "top 20". Anyways, I've learnt to not even engage with this.

@Med Ed gave you the best answer you're going to get. It's most likely not going to happen and this is maybe the first time I've said that on SDN. OP the reasoning as Med Ed points out is that they already have an excess of 515+, high GPA, straight out of undergrad, high clinical experience candidates. The 11K hr thing works in your favor but simultaneously adds several questions (red flags) to your application (i.e. they will question your judgment). Your application will be part of the first wave they cut before they even start looking into the applications.

 

[SMMN]

Agreed. To me it more plausible that the reasoning for OP's top 20 predilection is driven by ego. Why else would you sacrifice 7+ years of PA salary to attending medical school only if it's a "top 20", but suddenly not be willing to if it's not "top 20". Anyways, I've learnt to not even engage with this.

@Med Ed gave you the best answer you're going to get. It's most likely not going to happen and this is maybe the first time I've said that on SDN. OP the reasoning as Med Ed points out is that they already have an excess of 515+, high GPA, straight out of undergrad, high clinical experience candidates. The 11K hr thing works in your favor but simultaneously adds several questions (red flags) to your application (i.e. they will question your judgment). Your application will be part of the first wave they cut before they even start looking into the applications.

"Your application will be part of the first wave they cut before they even start looking into the applications." - based on what metrics ?

 

[emergencydancing]

Stats:

3.579 ucGPA
3.478 usGPA
MCAT - no attempts yet, starting to study but confident I can hit 515+

10,500 Direct Clinical Care Hours


Hi all. I have very specific reasons that I won't go into for why my life goals do not align if I go to a Med school that is ranked lower. I have read a lot of posts on this topic but not much to help me understand what will actually help me get into a t20 school (preferentially) and if not t20 then t20-t30. Most of what I hear says I shouldn't worry about ranking. But trust me I'm in a unique situation where I need to. So please do help me understand what my next best step is in pursuit of this goal.

I've been practicing as a PA (Physician Assistant) in Emergency medicine for 4 years ( this was a bachelors of science from my state school- this program had at least 300 applications for 30 seats and was cheapest in the nation at the time). Changed my career trajectory looking to start medical school within 2 years. The life story summed up is (always wanted to be an MD but had to financially support my own parents so picked PA school instead for the financial outlook- have been a disadvantaged student for sure- having worked full time through a full time load at community college on a pell grant).

Have not taken my MCAT yet. Here's my creds:

Cum GPA: 3.579 (crazy hard PA school classes on pure medicine and biology that don't count towards my science GPA apparently)

Science GPA: 3.478 (24 science classes - 94 credits) problem is all these science courses were taken at my Community college that led to an associates degree which I used to get into my BS degree.

Cumulative health care direct patient care hours: 10,500 hours (over the past decade- 7500 as a PA, 3000 as an ER Tech)

Courses needed still: 2 semesters of Physics, 2 semesters of Org chem. If I get A's in all four of these courses my science GPA only comes up to a 3.55. Maybe Calculus (if required). My basic one year of biology and chemistry were done along with my associates degree at my community college 10 years ago.

My last college course was during this bachelors 4 years ago and I have accrued some interesting extracurricular hobbies over the past 4 years like sky diving, scuba diving, mountaineering but no research or pubs.

What's my next best step to get into a top 20 MD School besides killing my MCAT ? From what I can tell a masters degree will help with the research heavy med schools up top and cover for my 94 community college credits but that doesn't touch my under grad gpa like a post bacc would (for the schools that don't even look beyond their gpa cut-offs).

I'm really confused about whether I even fit in to the "career-changer post bacc" criteria since I literally practiced medicine as a clinician for years.

This is a crisis for now since post-bacc application deadlines are on monday (and I just found this program I like at JHU) so any help is appreciated tremendously !!!

Just as a commentary for other uninitiated reading this, prestige chasing is not usually received well on these forums. It gives off very gunner vibes and the impression that you're in it for the prestige to boost your ego. I'm not saying this is true, that's just the connotation.

Few people would argue there all ambitions in and adjacent to medicine won't benefit from a name brand school, and many do factor this in when making school decisions. But when you go out and say T20 or bust, and if I absolutely must I'll settle for T30, it raises red flags about motivations as well as overall personal priorities. We all know the stereotypical doctor who went into medicine for money and prestige, burns out and just doesn't care about patients and you don't want to come off as that.

 

[Goro]

"Your application will be part of the first wave they cut before they even start looking into the applications." - based on what metrics ?

GPAs alone. You're in the <10th %s.

You're right at median for the better DO schools.

 

[Redpancreas]

"Your application will be part of the first wave they cut before they even start looking into the applications." - based on what metrics ?

Based on experience from watching inner proceedings of admissions committees to medical school and how they examine applicants.

515 MCAT (assumption)
3.579 ucGPA
3.478 usGPA

That's a LizzyM of 69 (not validated, but essentially how schools look at this). That's solidly out of top school metrics. Enter those into the MSAR if you don't believe me. Then let's look at life experience. OP has quite a lot of clinical experience, but then there are going to be a lot of people in the room asking why medicine now and if OP will have the resilience to go through 4 years of extremely competitive course work (much harder than "crazy hard PA school classes") and 3+ years of residency and OP has zero redeeming qualities in that domain relative to their average at these schools. Schools are not playing Moneyball looking to take risks in exchange for untapped potential. They're looking for safe bets to keep their metrics (demographics, stats, etc.) uniform.

On the contrary, non-top 20s and DO schools may have this concern. However, the GPA/assumed MCAT are at range for midtier MD/top DO schools. Therefore, when the same question gets asked in the room, the people supporting OPs candidacy can say "hey, he/she has already proven academic potential" beyond our current students.

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And if we're talking about metrics,OP doesn't even have a GPA or MCAT yet, what I'm giving him/her is the best case hypothetical metrics.

 

[Redpancreas]

Just as a commentary for other uninitiated reading this, prestige chasing is not usually received well on these forums. It gives off very gunner vibes and the impression that you're in it for the prestige to boost your ego. I'm not saying this is true, that's just the connotation.

Few people would argue there all ambitions in and adjacent to medicine won't benefit from a name brand school, and many do factor this in when making school decisions. But when you go out and say T20 or bust, and if I absolutely must I'll settle for T30, it raises red flags about motivations as well as overall personal priorities. We all know the stereotypical doctor who went into medicine for money and prestige, burns out and just doesn't care about patients and you don't want to come off as that.

It's not appreciated on these forums because it perpetuates the notion that certain schools that OP would actually be a better fit at are not good enough for him/her because they only value medical education if it's prestigious. That's what OP doesn't want to say and instead uses some cover phrase like "it's personal" to hide in plain sight from that motive.

 

[DokterMom]

@SMMN - If you've got legitimately good reasons for needing a T30 medical school, now would be the time to share them. Offhand, I can't think of any, but I don't rule out the possibility.

Best case, if you share your reasons and ultimate career/life goals, some of the wise posters here may be able to help steer you to a way you can accomplish your goals that might be more realistic for you.

Based on what you've said, a T30 school would be a 'hail Mary', though a mid-tier looks very realistic. You'll need A+'s in you remaining pre-reqs from a respected 4-year school plus a stellar MCAT for T30 (but still a Hail Mary); A- or better and a good MCAT for mid-tier.

 

[emergentmd]

This must be a troll. It has to be. If OP did any research, he would know his GPA alone will get him dropped by most top school.

Maybe you have an ACE up your sleeve or something. Maybe you are Tom Brady, won the Nobel Peace prize in medicine, or parents donated $100M to Harvard med school.

Short of this, please give us on update b/c I would love to see you refuse admission to a non T30 school

 

[Med Ed]

This must be a troll. It has to be. If OP did any research, he would know his GPA alone will get him dropped by most top school.

To be fair, the central question posed in this thread is whether a post-bacc or SMP would be preferable to get the OP into a T20-30. The former would increase the OP's GPA somewhat, the latter could offer a direct linkage, depending on the program. Either way it's a long shot.

The "need" to attend a top school is concerning but peripheral.

 

[Goro]

To be fair, the central question posed in this thread is whether a post-bacc or SMP would be preferable to get the OP into a T20-30. The former would increase the OP's GPA somewhat, the latter could offer a direct linkage, depending on the program. Either way it's a long shot.

The "need" to attend a top school is concerning but peripheral.

To follow up, SDNers who have reinvented themselves have gotten into Duke, Pitt, Mt Sinai, Columbia, Vandy, UCSF, Keck, BU, Tufts, Jefferson, Hofstra and Case. As there are some 50 schools in the "top 30", I'd say these fit the bill.