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[Jennie573]

I would say ortho spine. Median salary in 2019 MGMA was $840k, in reality it is likely higher. For derm to match that hourly rate, they would need to be working 30 hrs/week ($455k) vs 55hrs/week in ortho spine, 4 weeks of vacation for both.

The only fields that compete with ortho spine are CT surgery, neurosurgery, retina, and Mohs. The first two have worse hours for similar pay, and the later two are extremely small fields. So I guess you could say retina or Mohs as well.

Radiology hours aren’t much better than ortho spine and the median salaries are at least 25% less. Or in other words, rads isn’t working 25% less hours than ortho spine when both are working median jobs.

Ortho spine also has the possibility of outpatient surgery which nrsg and CT surgery don’t.

Final caveat is that neurosurgery can also do spine, but from what I have heard, it’s likely you will still get roped into taking neurosurgery call which sucks and is still brain stuff. Ortho spine can have to take general ortho call too but ortho practices are usually bigger and can spread the pain around more.

I am interested in inpatient setting. I don't mind long hours duty. Which specialities should I consider?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

If optho doesn't make a lot of money why is it so difficult to match into then? A 244 step 1 is just a few points shy from the average of matched neurosurgeons.

Probably because its a lifestyle specialty unlike neurosurgery. Also explains why plastics is higher than both.

I think you misinterpreted what they were saying. They were confused why it would be so close to competitiveness to neurosurgery when neurosurgeons make bank and ophtho allegedly doesn't. I don't think they were insulting the competitiveness of either field.

I think the OP miscontrues the competitiveness of a specialty compared to its 'lifestyle factor'. This could be why there is confusion on this point.

There's actually a decently strong positive correlation. On the old MCAT scale (out of 36), every 1 point increase in MCAT translates to on average a 2 point increase in Step 1 score. Obviously there are outliers But MCAT is a much stronger predictor of Step 1 scores than undergrad GPA (which obviously varies widely based on your undergrad school and major).

I wouldnt say an r2 of .5 is a decent or a strong correlation.

You and every other med student OP, 16 weeks of vacation too. Let me know if you find that specialty, I might switch.

Surprised anesthesia isn't mentioned yet. Average of 400K for 40-50 hours of work. with 8 - 12 weeks of vacation. It seems silly that people are only looking at hours worked in the hospital and not looking at the paperwork/administrative/ non-clinical aspects that happens after work. When you account for the vacation weeks of anesthesia compared to the lesser vacations of the other fields, the disparity becomes a lot lower.

 

[RetinaDude]

Only the procedural subspecialties in ophtho have the potential to make 500k+ without working insane hours, and those require additional 1-2 yrs of fellowship training after ophtho residency. And you probably won't get the big bucks right out of fellowship either. More likely to get taken advantage of as a new grad by the senior partners in a group for the first few years, and IF you become a partner and build up a large patient volume can you make the much. Also insurance reimbursements for ophtho procedures has dropped significantly over the past few decades (for example cataract surgery used to pay thousands of dollars per procedure but nowadays it's so little that the profit margins are tiny) so you'll have to rely on elective cash-based procedures.

In contrast, general ophtho (which involves mostly medical management and no procedures but also doesn't require additional fellowship training) makes way less, median closer to around $300k per year which is only slightly higher than primary care.

Not true. Does not reflect real world.

 

[RetinaDude]

I do not trust these MGMA salary surveys. I got 330k where I am now as a hospitalist and if you look into MGMA, they say average should be ~260k. They can't even recruit hospitalists there since the nearest metro is close to 2 hrs away.

How much does a comprehensive ophthalmologist make?

I know this is highly variable but just wanted to see some actual numbers if possible so that I know what to expect once I graduate! Seems like a taboo in our specialty

forums.studentdoctor.net

I’m a retinal specialist. I’ve never responded to a salary survey. None of my colleagues (partners nor other community ophthalmologists) have ever responded either. So, I don’t know where they get their numbers. Maybe academics?!?! But, whatever MGMA is publishing for ophthalmology is not accurate (too low)

 

[Status Sciaticus]

I heard the anesthesia field is facing challenges from the midlevels. What do you think?

Its been "facing challenges" for the past 40 years. Salaries are only increasing. What do you think?

 

[The Med-Peds Dude]

Thanks for your reply. If you don't mind me asking, what are some of the subspecialties in radiology that don't have radiation exposure and what do they do? Do they just read the images and give diagnosis?

Depends on your practice. One of my partners mostly did ultrasound; not sure I ever saw his signature on anything else. The neuroimaging people rarely had to cover general radiology.

 

[CHARLESTONMMM]

Honestly it sounds like medicine might not be for you. Maybe real estate or be a teacher. I’m not sure any specialty will have a great work life balance soon. Medical school and residency are difficult and long for anything you do. It doesn’t get better when you finish.

 

[RetinaDude]

If optho doesn't make a lot of money why is it so difficult to match into then? A 244 step 1 is just a few points shy from the average of matched neurosurgeons.

Ophtho does make a lot of money, especially high volume cataract docs and retina. I’m retina.

if you are a solo practitioner, you will probably work hard. If you choose to live in NYC, or LA, or San Fran, or Hawaii, you will probably work longer hours, and you will most certainly make less money (as you would in many saturated markets in a lot of specialities). But, a lot of large cities, and especially medium to smaller cities, are really needing ophthalmologist right now. The demand is high and will only go higher.

None of the high volume cataract guys I know work more than 4 days per week (3 days in clinic and 1 day in the OR). None of them work over 40 hours per week. None of them cover hospital call (unless they want to, and then they get paid for it). All easily make over $500k per year.

Similar with retina. Some work 4 days and some work 5 days. I’m in a group and almost never work more than 40 hours per week, even when on call. Usually go in around 8:30 and done by 4:00-4:30. Partners take anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks of vacation per year. Income for past ten years has been $1M+.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Honestly it sounds like medicine might not be for you. Maybe real estate or be a teacher. I’m not sure any specialty will have a great work life balance soon. Medical school and residency are difficult and long for anything you do. It doesn’t get better when you finish.

No money in being a teacher. Real estate is a plan B unless you’re doing commercial real estate. Even then, job prospects and market forces heavily impact your outlook financially. Medicine is a great choice to make good money with great job security but it’s not good for reliably making seven figures.

OP, look at gasworks.com and look at their salary and comp if you want to see the numbers. And those jobs are the ****ty ones. Imagine how well the good ones pay.

 

[DarkHorizon]

Ophtho does make a lot of money, especially high volume cataract docs and retina. I’m retina.

if you are a solo practitioner, you will probably work hard. If you choose to live in NYC, or LA, or San Fran, or Hawaii, you will probably work longer hours, and you will most certainly make less money (as you would in many saturated markets in a lot of specialities). But, a lot of large cities, and especially medium to smaller cities, are really needing ophthalmologist right now. The demand is high and will only go higher.

None of the high volume cataract guys I know work more than 4 days per week (3 days in clinic and 1 day in the OR). None of them work over 40 hours per week. None of them cover hospital call (unless they want to, and then they get paid for it). All easily make over $500k per year.

Similar with retina. Some work 4 days and some work 5 days. I’m in a group and almost never work more than 40 hours per week, even when on call. Usually go in around 8:30 and done by 4:00-4:30. Partners take anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks of vacation per year. Income for past ten years has been $1M+.

Very envious of your set up. Sounds like an ideal set up. Congrats, I’m glad other physicians are making money, and not just the hospitals.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Ophtho does make a lot of money, especially high volume cataract docs and retina. I’m retina.

if you are a solo practitioner, you will probably work hard. If you choose to live in NYC, or LA, or San Fran, or Hawaii, you will probably work longer hours, and you will most certainly make less money (as you would in many saturated markets in a lot of specialities). But, a lot of large cities, and especially medium to smaller cities, are really needing ophthalmologist right now. The demand is high and will only go higher.

None of the high volume cataract guys I know work more than 4 days per week (3 days in clinic and 1 day in the OR). None of them work over 40 hours per week. None of them cover hospital call (unless they want to, and then they get paid for it). All easily make over $500k per year.

Similar with retina. Some work 4 days and some work 5 days. I’m in a group and almost never work more than 40 hours per week, even when on call. Usually go in around 8:30 and done by 4:00-4:30. Partners take anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks of vacation per year. Income for past ten years has been $1M+.

Dam a 1mil doc in the flesh.

 

[tpjunkie]

Dam a 1mil doc in the flesh.

They’re not so rare. I’m GI, about to become full partner in a group in suburban NJ. Take home should be in the 400 range and then I’ll be able to purchase endo shares with an annual payout that should get me pretty close to the 1m range. Easily there if I stumble across another investment like GME did for me this year 🙂

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

They’re not so rare. I’m GI, about to become full partner in a group in suburban NJ. Take home should be in the 400 range and then I’ll be able to purchase endo shares with an annual payout that should get me pretty close to the 1m range. Easily there if I stumble across another investment like GME did for me this year 🙂

That's very true, though we should probably keep that kinda quiet.

I'm FM and my wife is IM, both outpatient primary care (so on the lower end of physician incomes). We make considerably less than most of the doctors that live in our neighborhood based on lifestyle and most of them have nonworking/low paying job spouses. Now maybe they are all saving nothing and spending every penny, that's always possible. But if they aren't, then then do much better than we do.

 

[Anterior Chamber]

I believe it's wrong to chase the field with the highest pay. Perhaps the exception is Pediatrics, which pay low due to many kids being on Medicaid. They are not bad people but everyone tends to be poorer when young and richer as they get older. By the time the parents are 50, they are long past seeing pediatricians.

You'll earn your money with investments. Save for retirement and keep investing money for that.

What the original question might be is "what specialty has the highest RVU?". They are essentially the same.

Women can earn more than a doctor with high end prostitution. Do you want to go into that? No. Men and women can earn more if they can develop a high end law practice. I have met a lawyer that bills at $850/hour with no limitations on wasting hours and few expenses. If you see Medicare patients, you cannot earn $850/hour. Some New York lawyers charge $1200/hour but more are like $500. A lawyer writing a letter can easily be $1000. A doctor writes a referral letter for free.

 

[Chelsea FC]

They’re not so rare. I’m GI, about to become full partner in a group in suburban NJ. Take home should be in the 400 range and then I’ll be able to purchase endo shares with an annual payout that should get me pretty close to the 1m range. Easily there if I stumble across another investment like GME did for me this year 🙂

Dam, I thought Docs who take home 1 mil yearly from salary was very rare. Nice to see that more people than I thought really making Bank. Im happy for yall!

 

[Splenda88]

I believe it's wrong to chase the field with the highest pay. Perhaps the exception is Pediatrics, which pay low due to many kids being on Medicaid. They are not bad people but everyone tends to be poorer when young and richer as they get older. By the time the parents are 50, they are long past seeing pediatricians.

You'll earn your money with investments. Save for retirement and keep investing money for that.

What the original question might be is "what specialty has the highest RVU?". They are essentially the same.

Women can earn more than a doctor with high end prostitution. Do you want to go into that? No. Men and women can earn more if they can develop a high end law practice. I have met a lawyer that bills at $850/hour with no limitations on wasting hours and few expenses. If you see Medicare patients, you cannot earn $850/hour. Some New York lawyers charge $1200/hour but more are like $500. A lawyer writing a letter can easily be $1000. A doctor writes a referral letter for free.

That should not be a point of contention as long as that person will do his/her job well.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I believe it's wrong to chase the field with the highest pay. Perhaps the exception is Pediatrics, which pay low due to many kids being on Medicaid. They are not bad people but everyone tends to be poorer when young and richer as they get older. By the time the parents are 50, they are long past seeing pediatricians.

You'll earn your money with investments. Save for retirement and keep investing money for that.

What the original question might be is "what specialty has the highest RVU?". They are essentially the same.

Women can earn more than a doctor with high end prostitution. Do you want to go into that? No. Men and women can earn more if they can develop a high end law practice. I have met a lawyer that bills at $850/hour with no limitations on wasting hours and few expenses. If you see Medicare patients, you cannot earn $850/hour. Some New York lawyers charge $1200/hour but more are like $500. A lawyer writing a letter can easily be $1000. A doctor writes a referral letter for free.

LOL what??? As someone who is married to A lawyer at a big firm who bills similar hours she would be in deep **** if she take an hour to write something as simple as a referral letter and charge a client 1k. Its not as simple and straight forward as that. Drafting documents for clients can take alot of time and energy. You cant just be billing people for simple stuff and think your partner's wont notice. High-end lawyers work just as crazy or even worse hours than docs.

 

[Splenda88]

Dam, I thought Docs who take home 1 mil yearly from salary was very rare. Nice to see that more people than I thought really making Bank. Im happy for yall!

I think it's rare. Maybe 1-2% of doc make that much. However, 500k+ is not that rare in many (or even most) specialties.

 

[11b_or_wannabe]

Sounds appealing. Not interested in derm but optho is cool. Is it competitive to match into a optho residency?

lol yes...yes it is.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I think it's rare. Maybe 1-2% of doc make that much. However, 500k+ is not that rare in many (or even most) specialties.

Its really hard to know because money in Medicine is soo taboo. And Ive heard time and time again how those surveys that come out are BS that try to underestimate docs salary to push pay down. Most docs I talked to made 300-400K but very few made 500k which were mostly pain docs who said its becoming even harder to make that much which was difficult for them because a decade ago they were pulling in 1mil.

 

[averagejoes22]

look, the only reason you are asking these questions about ophthalmology now is because we told you earlier it is one of the highest paying ones. This is a horrible reason to choose a specialty. Give yourself a chance to get to know different things and fall in love with something. Find your calling. You owe yourself that much, after working hard to get into medical school. You can make decent money in any specialty. But if you dont love it, you are signing up for pretty miserable 30-40 years of your life.

Yeah! Lol seriously. Undergrad/Medical school are nothing. Residency is so much work and fellowship is even more work. This is without the covid curveball which has made things even sh*ttier for those of us in the field of IM or one of its subspecialties. The only thing that got me through covid surges and residency bs was the prospect of subspecializing. So def choose something you like lol

 

[Splenda88]

Its really hard to know because money in Medicine is soo taboo. And Ive heard time and time again how those surveys that come out are BS that try to underestimate docs salary to push pay down. Most docs I talked to made 300-400K but very few made 500k which were mostly pain docs who said its becoming even harder to make that much which was difficult for them because a decade ago they were pulling in 1mil.

Native Americans don't like to talk about salary. In my IM graduating class, all the non natives freely speak about their contracts, but the natives don't like to engage in that type of talk. You can see the awkwardness when you try to talk to them about compensation.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Native Americans don't like to talk about salary. In my IM graduating class, all the non natives freely speak about their contracts, but the natives don't like to engage in that type of talk. You can see the awkwardness when you try to talk to them about compensation.

LOL Native Americans mean something completely different in USA. But I get what you mean. Im surprised money isnt talked about as much in MEdicine and im not surprised that Docs are so bad at managing money and knowing their self worth when it comes to not getting taken advantage of.

 

[Splenda88]

LOL Native Americans mean something completely different in USA. But I get what you mean. Im surprised money isnt talked about as much in MEdicine and im not surprised that Docs are so bad at managing money and knowing their self worth when it comes to not getting taken advantage of.

Lol. I should have said US born citizens.

 

[OldSchoolMD1]

So bad I hate derm. It is just not my thing. Plus it is very difficult to match into derm isn’t it?

Is optho difficult to get in as well?

High-paying specialty, decent weekly hours, good work-life balance —> no specialty with these qualities are not competitive to get into (which shouldn’t be a surprise).

 

[aurevoir0711]

I am an M3 and I can see why you asked this question. It's good to be interested in your future career, but just as many people already shared, you have to do it for the right reason. A job with less working hours, good pay, and desirable locations sounds like a dream. Not many physicians are in that boat. Medicine is not an easy nor comfortable journey and you will learn how to compromise very soon.

 

[Ganon]

A pediatric resident who threw a few hundred dollars at bitcoin a decade ago will retire with more money than a surgical subspecialist graduating at the same time who didn't.

Extreme example, but I think people think of salary as the key factor of making tons of money, when the truth is for most it isn't. The wealthiest physicians I know make money from businesses outside of medicine, but use their practice to seed that money/invest.

Easier when you start with a bigger seed, of course..

 

[Splenda88]

A pediatric resident who threw a few hundred dollars at bitcoin a decade ago will retire with more money than a surgical subspecialist graduating at the same time who didn't.

Extreme example, but I think people think of salary as the key factor of making tons of money, when the truth is for most it isn't. The wealthiest physicians I know make money from businesses outside of medicine, but use their practice to seed that money/invest.

Easier when you start with a bigger seed, of course..

But it's always better to make 5000k/yr instead of 50k.

 

[yowuzzup1128]

There was an article from 2-3years that I can't find now. But the two specialties with the highest hourly rates were neurosurgery and radiation oncology. Which kind of makes sense since they're both highly procedural specialties with high reimbursement for their treatments.
Neurosurgery has some of the highest reimbursing procedures. Radonc works 40-50 hours a week and are able to treat more patients since it's more cognitive than physically taxing.

 

[tracheatoedoc]

You are a first year medical student. I recommend you enjoy your time in medical school and choose a residency in a field you enjoy. Just do your best.

 

[GrimWrapper]

This thread is super long, didn’t read it all, but read a bit. I didn’t see anyone mention psych, but psych is actually a great field for a 9-5 job with good pay, little call, and no need for fellowship. Psych jobs are in high demand, and the residency is super chill, I know multiple residents who make an extra 20-30k a year after PGY1 moonlighting because they work 40-50 hours a week in residency and aren’t burned out. They often work even less hours during 3rd and 4th year in some cases. I also know a doc working a regular inpatient unit gig making 280k a year, but he gets 20 weeks off the year and chooses not do any private practice on the side. So the earning potential on top of a job like that is pretty high.

 

[YCAGA]

Ophtho does make a lot of money, especially high volume cataract docs and retina. I’m retina.

if you are a solo practitioner, you will probably work hard. If you choose to live in NYC, or LA, or San Fran, or Hawaii, you will probably work longer hours, and you will most certainly make less money (as you would in many saturated markets in a lot of specialities). But, a lot of large cities, and especially medium to smaller cities, are really needing ophthalmologist right now. The demand is high and will only go higher.

None of the high volume cataract guys I know work more than 4 days per week (3 days in clinic and 1 day in the OR). None of them work over 40 hours per week. None of them cover hospital call (unless they want to, and then they get paid for it). All easily make over $500k per year.

Similar with retina. Some work 4 days and some work 5 days. I’m in a group and almost never work more than 40 hours per week, even when on call. Usually go in around 8:30 and done by 4:00-4:30. Partners take anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks of vacation per year. Income for past ten years has been $1M+.

…I kinda liked looking at eyes once. I’m intrigued.

So how competitive is a retina fellowship?

 

[YCAGA]

Maybe I missed it but people seem to be throwing out lifestyle specialities with good pay, but these are nowhere near highest $/hr. If OP (or anyone) literally wants to make the most money for hours worked, psych, anesthesia, and derm are not the answer. The life or maim or death specialities (nrsg, thoracic surg, spine surgery, interventional cards, retina) get the most $$$/hr. And all of these specialties are life or limb (or eye) routinely, so far from lifestyle or low-stress. But they definitely are well compensated, even when assuming 70 hour weeks.

 

[YCAGA]

I am interested in inpatient setting. I don't mind long hours duty. Which specialities should I consider?

No idea. Are you in medical school? If not, start there

 

[Ho0v-man]

Is it possible to work in these high-stress high-pay specialties (nrsg, thoracic surg, spine surgery) while also work for 40 hrs/wk with predicted hours? Like could I choose to voluntarily work fewer hours for less total compensation while taking the advantage of the high hourly rates

No. These are sick patients and you own them and all of their random complications. Also, practices aren’t falling all over themselves to recruit employees/partners who don’t lessen their own call burdens. If just doing your shift and going home. Consider specialties like rads, gas, derm, psych, or one of the more office based IM subs like rheum.

How about vascular surgery? Do they have good lifestyle

You have to be trolling at this point

 

[Neopolymath]

This is now a troll thread until proven otherwise.

 

[sloop]

Maybe I missed it but people seem to be throwing out lifestyle specialities with good pay, but these are nowhere near highest $/hr. If OP (or anyone) literally wants to make the most money for hours worked, psych, anesthesia, and derm are not the answer. The life or maim or death specialities (nrsg, thoracic surg, spine surgery, interventional cards, retina) get the most $$$/hr. And all of these specialties are life or limb (or eye) routinely, so far from lifestyle or low-stress. But they definitely are well compensated, even when assuming 70 hour weeks.

I don’t know. Some of the faculty in my program (forensic psychiatry) have quoted their rates for private forensic work. Something like $500-600 per hour depending on the type of work (criminal vs civil, etc.). They also bill for everything they do, including their travel time, records review, report writing, trial prep, the time it takes to clear security at the prisons, court time whether or not they testify, etc. This is in a major east coast metro area, so not the middle of nowhere.

Granted, the people who quoted the above rates are experienced people and those don’t necessarily factor in costs, but still . . . There is tremendous earning potential in this field of psychiatry.

In terms of cash-pay private practice general psychiatry (that is, non-forensic work), the rates I have heard are usually something like $200-500 for an intake (usually something like 60-90 minutes) and like $100-250 for a follow up (often about 30 minutes but could be less depending on the patient).

Also consider that the overhead in psychiatry is relatively low. In forensics, you may not even need office space depending on the work you do. If you’re doing purely criminal work, for instance, you might wind up meeting defendants primarily in correctional institutions, forensic hospitals or the attorney’s office. Even if you’re doing general psychiatry or forensic work that requires office space, you don’t really need any expensive specialized equipment. At most, you might pay to keep a stock of some proprietary testing materials, like for the TOMM or the SIRS-2. Malpractice rates are relatively low and, depending on your practice size, you may not need to hire any ancillary staff.

 

[RetinaDude]

Amazing to say the least. Thank you.

How about lasik surgeons practicing in suburb areas near the big cities? Is the market saturated in the suburb area as well if it is near the major cities like boston/nyc/sf?

Not real sure how the LASIK docs are doing. It is a very niche field, meaning it takes a lot longer to get established than a regular cataract surgeon (or retina doc). LASIK is sort of like plastic surgery. People are usually paying cash so they only want “the best most experienced surgeon”

 

[RetinaDude]

…I kinda liked looking at eyes once. I’m intrigued.

So how competitive is a retina fellowship?

To be honest, I’m not sure anymore. It’s a popular sub specialty of ophthalmology so it’s competitive

 

[RetinaDude]

Thanks for your input! May I ask you a question about ophtho? Is it true that ophthalmologist only get paid well in rural area when there is limited supply of doctors? How does an ophthalmologist's salary look like in big cities in the Northeast?

Really don’t know much about the northeast. In the Midwest, and south, we are all doing very well. And no, you do not have to be in a rural area to make good money. I’m in a larger city (not as big as NYC but also bigger than Columbus, OH) and I’m doing very well.

 

[RetinaDude]

Maybe I missed it but people seem to be throwing out lifestyle specialities with good pay, but these are nowhere near highest $/hr. If OP (or anyone) literally wants to make the most money for hours worked, psych, anesthesia, and derm are not the answer. The life or maim or death specialities (nrsg, thoracic surg, spine surgery, interventional cards, retina) get the most $$$/hr. And all of these specialties are life or limb (or eye) routinely, so far from lifestyle or low-stress. But they definitely are well compensated, even when assuming 70 hour weeks.

I don’t know if this is completely accurate or not. I didn’t say how much over $1M+ I make but I can tell ya, I probably make as much as a lot of neurosurgeons and work a lot lot less than they do

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Maybe I missed it but people seem to be throwing out lifestyle specialities with good pay, but these are nowhere near highest $/hr. If OP (or anyone) literally wants to make the most money for hours worked, psych, anesthesia, and derm are not the answer. The life or maim or death specialities (nrsg, thoracic surg, spine surgery, interventional cards, retina) get the most $$$/hr. And all of these specialties are life or limb (or eye) routinely, so far from lifestyle or low-stress. But they definitely are well compensated, even when assuming 70 hour weeks.

I imagine OP also wants a life outside the hospital to spend that money. Cant do that when youre neurosurg, trauma, or CT having to take a ton of call for those class 1 cases.

I don’t know if this is completely accurate or not. I didn’t say how much over $1M+ I make but I can tell ya, I probably make as much as a lot of neurosurgeons and work a lot lot less than they do

This. Know a few pain docs who have vertically integrated their practice into > 1M while working 40 hours with no call, weekends, or holidays. It can definitely be done with an entrepreneurial spirit.

this is all moot though since OP is just an M1. Will revisit this in 3 years when he matches into something like IM or peds because he/she actually enjoys that specialty.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I imagine OP also wants a life outside the hospital to spend that money. Cant do that when youre neurosurg, trauma, or CT having to take a ton of call for those class 1 cases.

This. Know a few pain docs who have vertically integrated their practice into > 1M while working 40 hours with no call, weekends, or holidays. It can definitely be done with an entrepreneurial spirit.

this is all moot though since OP is just an M1. Will revisit this in 3 years when he matches into something like IM or peds because he/she actually enjoys that specialty.

Hmm maybe this is heavily region-dependent but all the pain docs around here have to work hard to hit 500k. 1 mil is what the old-school pain guys use to make. When u say "entrepreneurial spirit" do you mean side hustle or are they pulling that much off their job as a doctor treating patients?

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Hmm maybe this is heavily region-dependent but all the pain docs around here have to work hard to hit 500k. 1 mil is what the old-school pain guys use to make. When u say "entrepreneurial spirit" do you mean side hustle or are they pulling that much off their job as a doctor treating patients?

I mean those that vertically integrate their entire practice from start to finish: have their own imaging center, in house UDS, PT, and perhaps a cash preferred/only ancillary for PRP, ketamine infusions, etc.. Better yet, ownership in an ASC where you collect your facility fees for your more invasive procedures. Having NPs/PAs see your med refills and regular low yield follow-ups. So to answer your question, it would be a bit of both.

 

[painfuldoc]

I’ll put in a plug for OMFS people. 1mil+ on 35-40 hours a week with 8-10 weeks of vacation. These numbers are pretty common too.

Insane amount of billing per day. You just pump out procedures on daily basis.

Its dental specialty but those guys definitely take the cake.

 

[Chelsea FC]

I mean those that vertically integrate their entire practice from start to finish: have their own imaging center, in house UDS, PT, and perhaps a cash preferred/only ancillary for PRP, ketamine infusions, etc.. Better yet, ownership in an ASC where you collect your facility fees for your more invasive procedures. Having NPs/PAs see your med refills and regular low yield follow-ups. So to answer your question, it would be a bit of both.

Yeah that’s what I thought. So it’s less of a result of the field and more of docs being really efficient and having and entrepreneurial spirit. “Regular” pain docs working average hours make high 400k I would assume with a few creeping into 500k that’s without the extra stuff which is outside of your average job.

 

[Status Sciaticus]

Yeah that’s what I thought. So it’s less of a result of the field and more of docs being really efficient and having and entrepreneurial spirit. “Regular” pain docs working average hours make high 400k I would assume with a few creeping into 500k that’s without the extra stuff which is outside of your average job.

That assumption is still incorrect. What you are talking about are likely employed physicians rather than private practice physicians. Even without all those ancillary things I mentioned, the average compensation is higher in PP than employed positions and also largely affected by location.

 

[SCallergydoc]

A&I