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[nhnj3232]

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[Cowsrcool]

I recommend getting more vet hours. When talking with DVMs and others involved in vet school / admissions teams / interviewers for schools vet hours can be competitive at any level but 200-300 is usually a BASELINE (but this could vary for EVERY school). I think the fact that you have hours in various different fields is impressive so honestly just keep expanding on that! Further, many PhD programs do look for other upper level degrees like a Masters, but I’m not sure if this is the case for combined DVM/PhD programs. You have great GPAs and I think overall a strong application! Good luck this cycle

 

[supershorty]

I’m not sure if this is the case for combined DVM/PhD programs

It’s not.

OP, you need more clinical hours, there’s really no way around that. But if you are really interested in research, why do you need the DVM vs just doing a PhD?

You will 100% get asked that question in dual program interviews, so give it some good thought 😉

 

[nhnj3232]

Thank you for the responses!

The things I was confused about in some vet schools' websites were:

"Veterinary, animal, and/or health science experience. This may include the care, knowledge, and experience gained working in a veterinary, agricultural, research, human health, and/or biomedical setting. Such experience should be of appropriate breadth and depth and should entail more than having provided routine care and feeding of companion animals or family pets." (Tufts)

"Veterinary Experience
- Experiences in veterinary practice, veterinary or biomedical research, public health, or other areas of the profession under the supervision of a veterinarian or research scientist are highly desirable." (cornell)

"A. Knowledge of the veterinary profession, knowledge of and interest in animals, and professional goals: Experience with veterinarians, experience in a research setting, experience with and responsibility for the care and management of animals, and goals in the profession." (University of Minnesota)

I was confused whether the admissions officers would consider my research in veterinary medicine (it was something along looking at diseases in dogs) as veterinary experience or just as "research experience" as categorized under VMCAS.

Thank you so much for your insight!

 

[pp9]

I wrote in my essay how I needed to know about veterinary medicine to contextualize my research better and what goals I envision through research

So I had to show that I am interested in veterinary medicine through research opportunities at vet schools where they could pay student-visa holders.

Your wording here makes me wonder how sure you are of the career, and I'm curious how this was discussed in your personal statement. As you've written it here, it comes across as you applying to vet school not because you want to be a vet, but because you think it will help your research career. Are you 'interested' in vet med, or do you know you want to be a DVM/PhD? Without delving into whether or not getting a DVM would be the right move for you career-wise, I agree with ss in that you need significantly more clinical experience.

Paging @WildZoo and @WhtsThFrequency for additional PhD input??

I was confused whether the admissions officers would consider my research in veterinary medicine (it was something along looking at diseases in dogs) as veterinary experience or just as "research experience" as categorized under VMCAS.

Generally speaking, 'veterinary experience' is considered clinical work. With that said, regardless of how you categorize things, the schools still read your experience descriptions and might reach a different conclusion than how you chose to list things. You wouldn't be the first applicant to have an experience that crosses into two categories, but without more detail, it's hard to know if you have any clinical hours tucked in with your research experience.

When I was applying, students with cross-over experiences would split up the hours and list one experience twice. It's been 10 years, so I don't know if that's still an acceptable practice or not. It made sense at the time, but I think schools really are looking for more clinical hours these day.

VMCAS is a bit more specific these days, especially where they specify not to include any research-based experience in the veterinary category:

"Research​

Research experience includes any animal and veterinary research, as well as other field and/or laboratory-based research. Include specific details about your work/involvement, including whether the research experience provided an opportunity to present or publish.

Veterinary Experience (with a Veterinarian)​

Veterinary Experience includes any veterinary clinical, agribusiness, or health science experiences that took place under the supervision of a veterinarian. Experiences listed as Veterinary Experience should be different from those entered for Animal and Employment experiences. Do not list any veterinary research experience."

 

[supershorty]

Thank you for the responses!

The things I was confused about in some vet schools' websites were:

"Veterinary, animal, and/or health science experience. This may include the care, knowledge, and experience gained working in a veterinary, agricultural, research, human health, and/or biomedical setting. Such experience should be of appropriate breadth and depth and should entail more than having provided routine care and feeding of companion animals or family pets." (Tufts)

"Veterinary Experience
- Experiences in veterinary practice, veterinary or biomedical research, public health, or other areas of the profession under the supervision of a veterinarian or research scientist are highly desirable." (cornell)

"A. Knowledge of the veterinary profession, knowledge of and interest in animals, and professional goals: Experience with veterinarians, experience in a research setting, experience with and responsibility for the care and management of animals, and goals in the profession." (University of Minnesota)

I was confused whether the admissions officers would consider my research in veterinary medicine (it was something along looking at diseases in dogs) as veterinary experience or just as "research experience" as categorized under VMCAS.

Thank you so much for your insight!

Research is research. But why do you think you need both degrees? What do you want to do with your career?

I graduated from one of the programs that you are applying to and am happy to discuss it more, but I see a lot of applicants who don't actually need both degrees (or need both simultaneously) for what they ultimately want to do - and that's something that admissions committees for dual programs really care about.

 

[nhnj3232]

VMCAS is a bit more specific these days, especially where they specify not to include any research-based experience in the veterinary category:

Yeah, thats why I was confused since VMCAS and individual school pages seemed to have different ways of categorizing veterinary experiences

Research is research. But why do you think you need both degrees? What do you want to do with your career?

My primary interest is in genomic medicine and I want to use my knowledge in genetic medicine to make better diagnosis and treatment for animals. Since a lot of the diseases have unknown genetic cause, I want to research into genetic diseases (I'm not too sure what kind of diseases it would be...neuro and cardiac seem interesting).

I also thought it was cool how treatment for LCA for dogs was expanded further to make treatment for humans as well. So I think research is central to the goal I envision.

 

[supershorty]

So I think research is central to the goal I envision.

It sounds like it, but I'm less clear on whether a DVM is. What do you feel is essential about getting both degrees at the same time for what you want to do?

I'm not being hard on you to be a jerk, these are real questions to ask yourself before embarking on a 7-8 year process. And if you really want to do research long term, I'd recommend not doing a dual degree program and doing your PhD separately - or doing the degrees sequentially.

 

[nhnj3232]

I'm not being hard on you to be a jerk, these are real questions to ask yourself before embarking on a 7-8 year process. And if you really want to do research long term, I'd recommend not doing a dual degree program and doing your PhD separately - or doing the degrees sequentially.

No, you are not being rude or anything. I think those are all valid questions. I was kind of being as vague as possible on sdn because of privacy (not that anyone is going to know who I am but I just don't feel like putting all my information on a website). I would like to talk more through private message though. I also want to ask, why do you not recommend doing a dual degree program? I heard from others that its a lot of work and its better to get one thing done and then the other, but I want to hear your thoughts as well.

 

[WhtsThFrequency]

I did my PhD separately and it was the right move for me. Combined programs can work out fine sometimes, but they are more dicey IMO because you are trying to fit an unstructured research degree in with a structured clinical degree. If your ultimate goal is primarily a research career, then your publication history and lab are going to be very important in terms of your competitiveness for postdoc positions, grants, etc. I think the former is where students in combined programs struggle. It's a lot harder to publish when you are going back and forth between two degrees and have to start and stop projects.