2.72 cgpa - I'm sure you guys will have fun with my post

[studentbot]

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Hello Everyone:

I would like to apply to M.D. programs, but my GPA is almost a full point below the average medical school applicant. Normally someone in my position would just throw in the towel, but I am not so quick to give up. I recently graduated with a Biology BS and am preparing to take the MCAT in a few months. Originally I had no intention of applying to any graduate programs, let alone M.D. programs. I started out with excellent grades in my freshman year, and saw a significant decrease in my grades after my mother was diagnosed with breast cancer, and my father with prostate cancer a year later. The majority of my time throughout college was spent taking my parents to their chemotherapy sessions, which obviously took away from my academic performance. My grades were great as a senior in college, but at that point all the damage had been done.

As far as my credentials go, I have 2 years of research experience in a clinical research laboratory, one year of volunteering with a non-profit medical organization, and one year of clinical shadowing experience with a physician. During the time I spent working as a research tech, I was second author on a publication on TIIDM.

At this point, I'm curious to see what I will need to do in order to get into an M.D. program, and I wanted to see if anyone has advice to offer me. From what I have been reading, I would need to possibly complete some kind of science-focused masters degree (earning a very high GPA), and also score upwards of ~35 on the MCAT in order to offset my low GPA from undergrad.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

I would not do a master's program if I were you, unless it's an SMP (special master's program). I think a post-bac would help you out the most to show an upward trend with your grades. You have a reason for the dip in grades, which is something you could address in a personal statement, but with a 2.7 you are likely under the GPA cutoffs that some schools have. I think that if you can do a post-bac of straight A's for a couple of years, you probably have a good shot if your GPA is above a 3.0 with a strong upward trend.

If you take the MCAT and score very well, I would definitely apply to SMPs. They are expensive and it's not a guarantee, but with a high MCAT, excellent grades in the SMP, and fantastic ECs you should have a shot.

Is there a reason you don't want to pursue DO? I ask because someone in your position can't really be picky about MD vs. DO. You'll get the same education as a DO and be able to practice the same medicine.

 

[studentbot]

Thanks for your thoughts. The only thing I dislike about DO programs is the cost. The DO schools in my state are almost double the cost of tuition relative to the MD schools. Other than that, I have no biases against DO. I've even looked into Podiatry programs. My goal is really just to get into a career where I am able to work with patients and possibly do research. The irony I'm facing now is that M.D. is the cheapest route I've come across so far, as most DO and Podiatry programs are private, and really expensive.

What kind of an MCAT score do you think I should be aiming for? I've taken several diagnostic exams, and so far I am around 25, with verbal being my strongest section.

 

[Catalystik]

With two more years of full-time undergrad classes, maybe as a candidate for a second bachelors degree, you could get your cGPA to 3.11 if you got all As. Once your cGPA is over 3.0 and you get an MCAT of at least a 30, you are a candidate for an SMP program. These Special Masters Programs are specifically designed to redeem a low GPA for those aspiring to med school. You would be competing with first year med students. With a strong performance, typically a 3.5+ GPA, you have a decent, but not guaranteed chance of acceptance into an MD program. If your performance is not so strong, you still have a great chance at DO med schools. You can read more about these programs in the Postbaccalaureate Programs Forum of SDN.

 

[TheMightySmiter]

Thanks for your thoughts. The only thing I dislike about DO programs is the cost. The DO schools in my state are almost double the cost of tuition relative to the MD schools. Other than that, I have no biases against DO. I've even looked into Podiatry programs. My goal is really just to get into a career where I am able to work with patients and possibly do research. The irony I'm facing now is that M.D. is the cheapest route I've come across so far, as most DO and Podiatry programs are private, and really expensive.

What kind of an MCAT score do you think I should be aiming for? I've taken several diagnostic exams, and so far I am around 25, with verbal being my strongest section.

I think that the DO schools you've seen cost more because they are not in-state, whereas you are probably looking at in-state tuition. Depending on what state you're from, of course, you may not be able to attend a school in your state (although in-state is often an applicant's best bet) so right now I think you should be focused more on grades than on money! Every med student has to take out a godawful amount of loans, so don't let that be your deterrent. You will be able to pay them back.

Remember that you will have to pay, one way or another, to get your grades up, either with a post-bac program or an SMP (SMPs are quite expensive). Since you are worried about cost, a post-bac program, formal or informal, at your state school is probably the best option for you. That's the route I took, although I'm doing a post-bac because I don't have the prereqs.

You will need to improve your MCAT far beyond a 25. Don't worry too much about diagnostics, though. Once you start studying that score will hopefully go up quite a bit. To gain entry to an SMP, your score will need to be 30+, and hopefully 32+, because SMPs don't admit everybody. Doing a post-bac and THEN an SMP will take at least three years and a lot of money, but it may be your only chance! If you were willing to go DO, which I think is your best option, you could do a post-bac simply to retake classes in which you got a C or below. DO schools allow grade replacement, while MD schools do not, so it would be a lot easier to raise your GPA for DO schools. For DO schools you should aim to get a 28+ MCAT.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

realistically your states are disturbingly bad..
you'll need to retake all your classes that you got a c or below in.
take the mcat.. you better score above 30..
you better have amazing EC's
finally apply broadly to DO schools and all low tier MD schools..
and you might have a chance..

my advice..
get your ass in gear..
if you think your worth being trusted with a persons life..
then you sure as hell better be able to show the adcoms that your willing to improve.

 

[jckut10]

.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Interestingly, there's a Ross University ad on this page for users who are not logged in.


If your grades were weak in a particular subject or group of subjects (say, Physical Sciences) you'll want to ace that section of the MCAT. How do your scores usually break down?

ross is a graveyard.. its amazing the who hasnt removed it yet..

his mcat practice being a 25.. means he's basically pushing a 8 in each or so.

 

[apumic]

How far are you along on your MCAT prep. A 25 is "average"; unfortunately average won't get you within a hundred yards of the admissions office. You should generally expect a few point decrease from the average of your last few MCAT practice tests. If you have been preparing for the MCAT and are still getting a 25 (i.e., that wasn't a diagnostic score), I probably wouldn't expect anything above 30. OTOH, if you got a 25 first try, you're probably looking at a much stronger score after preparing. With your GPA, to make it to a 25% chance at getting accepted anywhere, you need a 36+ on the MCAT, which means you are better on the MCAT than over 96% of the tested population (i.e., stronger than 96+% of premeds). Very optimistically, given your GPA, AMCAS' data indicate that your chance of being one of the MCAT 36+ students with your GPA is about 1.9% (this is actually quite inflated as many people on the lower end would not be included in this data set simply b/c they would not have applied, but to be optimistic, your chances are less than 1 in 50).

The data don't really stand on your side, unfortunately; although I'm sure you figured this would be the case. Perhaps with an SMP, you might stand some chance. Just be sure you look around before doing that. Many a distraught applicant has come here after finding out that med schools still paid attention to their 2.8 GPA even though they had earned a 4.0 at an SMP. It's unfortunate, but there are so many applicants that med schools have to be choosy. From what I can tell, your only real choice here in the US is DO. Otherwise, you could go Caribbean and hope to be strong enough there to not be one of the majority who drop out/are kicked out, or you could try for another health profession (mid-level, although PA programs would still be nearly impossible with your academic record).

 

[studentbot]

So, I've taken 3 diagnostic exams - my best so far has been 7P, 7B, 11V. Like I said, verbal is my strong suit. This was without preparation or review. Two weeks ago I began the princeton review course in hopes that it will help me improve my scores.

As far as the D.O. schools go, the in-state tuition for one of the two D.O. schools is double the cost of the in-state tuition for the one M.D. program in the state. I have not done much research on out-of-state D.O. programs at this point, but I would imagine the costs will be about the same across the U.S. And, as you mentioned, I ought to first prioritize in-state programs as I will have the best chance at getting into those programs.

I feel like I have decent ECs: a publication, several years of clinical/research experience, and I was also a division 1 collegiate athlete. Any suggestions as to additional experiences?

I know of several friends who did not do well in their undergraduate classes, went onto graduate school and did rather well, and eventually applied to medical school and were accepted. I can't imagine this should be an impossible accomplishment for students in my position.

As far as I understand, my grades will be the limiting factor in whether I am accepted into an M.D. program. However, I noticed this on the aamc website, which gave me some small sense of hope, given that I can perform well on the MCAT:

http://www.aamc.org/data/facts/applicantmatriculant/table24-mcatgpa-grid-3yrs-app-accpt.htm

Thank you guys again for your thoughts and advice. I really appreciate it!

 

[rctriplefresh5]

Thanks for your thoughts. The only thing I dislike about DO programs is the cost. The DO schools in my state are almost double the cost of tuition relative to the MD schools. Other than that, I have no biases against DO. I've even looked into Podiatry programs. My goal is really just to get into a career where I am able to work with patients and possibly do research. The irony I'm facing now is that M.D. is the cheapest route I've come across so far, as most DO and Podiatry programs are private, and really expensive.

What kind of an MCAT score do you think I should be aiming for? I've taken several diagnostic exams, and so far I am around 25, with verbal being my strongest section.

ive seen a lot of hate towards podiatrists just curious why is it?

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

ive seen a lot of hate towards podiatrists just curious why is it?

no clue.. probably the same reasons most people hate physicians.. they thing there overpayed and do nothing

 

[Catalystik]

ive seen a lot of hate towards podiatrists just curious why is it?

This doesn't seem like an appropriate place to bring this up. Be nice.

 

[theWUbear]

realistically your states are disturbingly bad..
you'll need to retake all your classes that you got a c or below in.
take the mcat.. you better score above 30..
you better have amazing EC's
finally apply broadly to DO schools and all low tier MD schools..
and you might have a chance..

my advice..
get your ass in gear..
if you think your worth being trusted with a persons life..
then you sure as hell better be able to show the adcoms that your willing to improve.

With all due respect, I claim falsehood on your first statement. Retaking classes by the masses - well, retaking more than one or two classes, is not the way to go. They expect A's when you retake a class but do not believe it shows as much about you and your improvement as if you took a higher or just a different course.

I graduated with a 2.6 cGPA. I am in the middle of 1 year of post-baccalaureate study in biology (4 credits of A last summer, 3.79 first semester, i got one B :-/ ), and I have already applied to an SMP next year for which applications are due next May. I will spend two years in that masters program and apply in the spring between year one and two, so in 1.5 years I *will* get into MD school in US if I am successful in the SMP.

As long as you are extremely successful in an SMP, have a great MCAT score, and can justify your original poor grades and point out that they are not reflective of your academic potential, you are given a near-free pass on your original grades. Make friends with Ad-com directors...by which I mean tell them about the issues you have faced and the plan you have to make yourself a competitive applicant. When they offer their input to your plan and you find success over the coming years, keep in touch with them. They will be happy you took their advice and came a long way.

 

[theWUbear]

.

 

[air bud]

Thanks for your thoughts. The only thing I dislike about DO programs is the cost. The DO schools in my state are almost double the cost of tuition relative to the MD schools. Other than that, I have no biases against DO. I've even looked into Podiatry programs. My goal is really just to get into a career where I am able to work with patients and possibly do research. The irony I'm facing now is that M.D. is the cheapest route I've come across so far, as most DO and Podiatry programs are private, and really expensive.

What kind of an MCAT score do you think I should be aiming for? I've taken several diagnostic exams, and so far I am around 25, with verbal being my strongest section.

pod school tuition is 25-28k and doesnt matter if instate or out of state. I think that is cheaper than most MD schools, unless it is your state school.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

With all due respect, I claim falsehood on your first statement. Retaking classes by the masses - well, retaking more than one or two classes, is not the way to go. They expect A's when you retake a class but do not believe it shows as much about you and your improvement as if you took a higher or just a different course.

I graduated with a 2.6 cGPA. I am in the middle of 1 year of post-baccalaureate study in biology (4 credits of A last summer, 3.79 first semester, i got one B :-/ ), and I have already applied to an SMP next year for which applications are due next May. I will spend two years in that masters program and apply in the spring between year one and two, so in 1.5 years I *will* get into MD school in US if I am successful in the SMP.

As long as you are extremely successful in an SMP, have a great MCAT score, and can justify your original poor grades and point out that they are not reflective of your academic potential, you are given a near-free pass on your original grades. Make friends with Ad-com directors...by which I mean tell them about the issues you have faced and the plan you have to make yourself a competitive applicant. When they offer their input to your plan and you find success over the coming years, keep in touch with them. They will be happy you took their advice and came a long way.

yah.. when i say all on the internet i usually mean some 😛
post-baccs from what i've read on this fourm are all about useless except for helping to study for the mcat .
"*will*" you'll need a 3.5 + to have any luck... but good luck, i think if you've gotten into a smp and prove that you can do good your amazing because your doing what the real med students are doing and succeeding.
however his getting a 2.72.. and you need a 3.0+ to get into a smp, he'll need to retake many classes and do a big post-bacc..