2 Questions, Application help

[learnmdabc]

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Hi,

I don't usually post new topics that often, but I just need to hear some thoughts and ideas thrown around about my application.

I went to 4 interviews, resulting in three rejections and one waitlist. And I'm absolutely flustered. Coming out of the 4th interview, the interviewers told me directly: "you just gave us an excellent interview. It was a truly a pleasure speaking to you." I felt good. Result? Post-interview rejection once again. I had the impression that interviews can clinch the deal, and this gave me a glimmer of hope. But apparently not.

Now I'm thinking there is something glaringly wrong in my application that is resulting in not just waitlisting but direct post-interview rejections. I'm looking to apply again in another cycle, it seems. Disappointed, but life goes on, and I'll deal with it.

So two questions:

1) When can I ask the schools for direct feedback on my application? I really need to know what is going wrong, because the feedback given my interviewers just doesn't correlate with the results. I can't go into another cycle with these holes in my application, be it LOR or my MCAT or Volunteering experiences. Is it okay to ask the admissions office now?

2) Is a 33 worth re-taking? 9 V, 11 Phy, 13 Bio. I think I did alright, given that I only studied 2 months. That low verbal score was annoying, but I thought it would do. And that any retaking would possibly result in something lower. But since my GPA is on the low side ~3.5, should I go for another sitting?

A lot of writing about nothing much. Just had to get this out. Thanks!

 

[Catalystik]

You can call the schools that rejected you, ask to make a phone appointment with a dean, and ask him/her what you could do to improve your application. Often from these you can get a hint of lukewarm LOR or weak ECs.

Don't retake a 33. Are you still in school? Do you have an upward grade trend? Is your BCPM GPA decent? If not, that is a problem and you can fix it with more coursework.

Is it possible you didn't pass a background check?

 

[bannie22]

"you just gave us an excellent interview. It was a truly a pleasure speaking to you

That is riduculous. Unless of course you were at JHU or something of that level with a 33 MCAT.

 

[learnmdabc]

Bannie: I'm not really sure what you mean!

Catalystik: Thanks, I didn't know you could schedule appointments with the dean himself/herself. I will definitely do that.

I know I have big holes in my app (lack of volunteering experiences and research) that might be a huge turn off to a committee deciding on medical students. 🙄 Nevertheless, I hope talking to the people on admissions will give me direction, something concrete.

 

[bannie22]

Bannie: I'm not really sure what you mean!

Catalystik: Thanks, I didn't know you could schedule appointments with the dean himself/herself. I will definitely do that.

I know I have big holes in my app (lack of volunteering experiences and research) that might be a huge turn off to a committee deciding on medical students. 🙄 Nevertheless, I hope talking to the people on admissions will give me direction, something concrete.

Sorry, I mean that its riduculous you get rejected when you had an AMAZING interview...
unless of course u had a 33 going into an interview at JHU, then maybe... but still... that would mean you need a AMAZING AMAZING interview... which is still silly.

If you had an amazing interview, I think the school has to accept you, if not it seems they just called you out to waste your time... 😡

 

[learnmdabc]

Bannie: Thanks for understanding; I, too, felt that way at first. But if I were to face the facts --which i have to do now, given my situation-- there are some gaps in my application that I have to address ASAP.

 

[Practitioner]

Like catalystic said, call admissions and ask to make appointment with the dean. I was a little intimidated the first time, but the dean was really cool. She pulled up my file and discussed it "point-by-point" as reviewer noted on my application and told me where concerns were. Keep your AMCAS/secondary in front of you too so you have an idea what they're looking at.

Others were as friendly and helpful, and it was especially enlightening to see how the different schools reviewed the application and really reflected the school's stated objectives, etc.

 

[PrinceVersed]

If the goal is to get into a med school ASAP, why not apply to some DO. Given your stats and ability to interview "awesome" I would think that you would be golden.

Just some food for thought.

 

[Catalystik]

Can you detail your volunteering and clinical experiences?

 

[learnmdabc]

Thanks Practioner! I will do just that. Can I ask you when you made these appointments? Can you do it mid-cycle, like right now...or do I wait until May? I'm thinking they probably have their hands full right now. Also, were these talks post-interview or pre-interview?

And yes, it does sound intimidating. But it's something that I need to do. Thanks again for your help.

Princeversed: Yes, I have been giving that some thought. Thanks.

Edit

Catalysik:

Like I said, pretty pitiful:

100 hours of shadowing, 5 different specialties.
Around 90 hours of hospital volunteering, but only 20-30 hours involve human interaction. The other hours were spent running around the hospital making deliveries. (I think this killed me big time. F me)
Coordinated a student-taught health class for 3 semesters
Involved in two 2 research projects right now...none of them published, but I hope in coming year they will be. One of which involves patient interaction, but I just started it.
Service Organization Volunteering, non-medical, 200 hours+
***incredibly lukewarm LORs. I never bothered to get to know my professors at Cal. So...I can assume they suck real hard.

Like catalystic said, call admissions and ask to make appointment with the dean. I was a little intimidated the first time, but the dean was really cool. She pulled up my file and discussed it "point-by-point" as reviewer noted on my application and told me where concerns were. Keep your AMCAS/secondary in front of you too so you have an idea what they're looking at.

Others were as friendly and helpful, and it was especially enlightening to see how the different schools reviewed the application and really reflected the school's stated objectives, etc.

 

[Musclemass]

"you just gave us an excellent interview. It was a truly a pleasure speaking to you

That is riduculous. Unless of course you were at JHU or something of that level with a 33 MCAT.

You have a meeting with someone for a class-assigned group project. You don't like them at all. When you're done, do you say "Thanks for your help and, by the way, as a person you really suck"? No, of course not.

So get a clue - a comment after an interview is a meaningless cordiality. Emphasis on the word meaningless.

It's early in the process for post interview rejections, and I would take 3 of 4 as a sign that the OP has a interviewing problem. Nervousness, difficulty expressing him/herself, odd mannerisms or off-putting personality quirks, or ? Such a high percentage means the problem(s) leading to negative impressions are pretty obvious to others

I think you're unlikely to get anything useful from the schools that rejected you, they'll just tell you that they had preference for other applicants. Try your school's pre-professional advising office, career services, professors, do mock interviews and talk to as many as possible. Good luck

 

[Practitioner]

Thanks Practioner! I will do just that. Can I ask you when you made these appointments? Can you do it mid-cycle, like right now...or do I wait until May? I'm thinking they probably have their hands full right now. Also, were these talks post-interview or pre-interview?

All were pre-interview. All mid-cycle. All 2-3 weeks after rejection e-mail letter.

The first one was actually 2-3 days after their decision, because it was days after my MCAT and I called to check that it wasn't because the MCAT. They said MCAT wasn't the reason, so I asked to set an appointment in person (in-state school 1.5 hour away), the dean's assistant called to cancel and asked if we could do a phone interview. I again asked for in person, which was again canceled, before I agreed to phone interview. The dean didn't call (the assistant told me she had an emergency in the family, so I figured she was busy and let it go for another week) then I called back and the dean took my call on the spot. Apologized profusely, then spoke to me.

The other in-state school I called closed to 3 weeks after their e-mail. Set an appointment a week later and the assistant called me then conferenced me with the dean. Same with the last one, though the dean called me directly. I'll be calling a few others for appointments to get a feel if they think it would be worth investing in applying to them next cycle or wait another year.

[edit] - I was going to wait till May but the problem is if there's something you can do in the 5 months before the next cycle starts you want to know ASAP about it. One of the school's basically said I had to reword my experiences on the application and otherwise could continue doing what I'm doing! So call sooner than later, in my opinion.

 

[Catalystik]

Catalysik:

100 hours of shadowing, 5 different specialties.
Around 90 hours of hospital volunteering, but only 20-30 hours involve human interaction. The other hours were spent running around the hospital making deliveries. (I think this killed me big time. F me)
Coordinated a student-taught health class for 3 semesters
Involved in two 2 research projects right now...none of them published, but I hope in coming year they will be. One of which involves patient interaction, but I just started it.
Service Organization Volunteering, non-medical, 200 hours+

***incredibly lukewarm LORs. I never bothered to get to know my professors at Cal. So...I can assume they suck real hard.

Your shadowing was more than enough, and you had some good variety.

All of the hospital volunteering was a community service, (along with the 200+ hours with the service organization) but alas, I agree that the actual patient interaction was about bottom 20th percentile.

You got some Leadership from the health class coordination. Maybe some Teaching too?

Clinical research is another acceptable way to gain clinical experience. Other than the research, what else can you do to gain face-to-face interaction with sick people NOW. With (potentially) another application season looming, you need to act to fill the holes in your application.

Work on replacing some of the LORs too.

 

[student113]

1. I agree that the problem might be with the OP's interviewing demeanor. A red flag as obvious as activities or even test score should have prevented all the interview invites. The percentage does point to a problem during the interview

2. OP, your activities don't sound that bad to me...even though I guess you didn't do anything NOBODY else did, it sounds like your volunteering/shadowing hours should be average if not above. Does anybody else think that could be the problem?

 

[learnmdabc]

Thank you for being honest. Maybe I really can't take the interviewers' word for it. That analogy with the group meetings is apt. I will definitely work on the interviewing portion, also.

Though I must say, I only got interviews at places where I could write additional essays. I rushed the AMCAS activities and personal statement.

And SOMETHING definitely prevented many interview invites, I think. I applied to 26 school, lol, alll of them mid to low tier. And I have only four interviews...grave silence from a few and even more rejections from others. That says something, I guess. = =

1. I agree that the problem might be with the OP's interviewing demeanor. A red flag as obvious as activities or even test score should have prevented all the interview invites. The percentage does point to a problem during the interview

2. OP, your activities don't sound that bad to me...even though I guess you didn't do anything NOBODY else did, it sounds like your volunteering/shadowing hours should be average if not above. Does anybody else think that could be the problem?

 

[Musclemass]

Hey, sorry, I missed that you said you had only lukewarm LORs. I'm not sure how you know (unless you assume so because they're from profs you have lukewarm relationships with). That's my bet for why the low number of interviews. If you had better numbers, you'd still be pulled down by not having excellent LORs. So many applicants have great letters, no doubt the absence of that marks you as a weaker candidate. You get to choose who writes a letter. If they don't say you're a terrific applicant, why should the school you're applying to think so?

That's where you need to focus your effort, maybe with the research you're doing now. Make them think you're the most amazing thing that ever walked through the door.

Oh, and 4 interviews should be enough to get an offer. Or even 3 waitlist places.

 

[learnmdabc]

Thanks Musclesmass. Really appreciate your advice. I'll definitely take your comments into account as I shape up for another cycle.

Interesting enough, the school of my fourth interview --at which I got that questionably positive feedback post-interview-- does not review LORs prior to interview invites...


QUOTE=Musclemass;9192144]Hey, sorry, I missed that you said you had only lukewarm LORs. I'm not sure how you know (unless you assume so because they're from profs you have lukewarm relationships with). That's my bet for why the low number of interviews. If you had better numbers, you'd still be pulled down by not having excellent LORs. So many applicants have great letters, no doubt the absence of that marks you as a weaker candidate. You get to choose who writes a letter. If they don't say you're a terrific applicant, why should the school you're applying to think so?

That's where you need to focus your effort, maybe with the research you're doing now. Make them think you're the most amazing thing that ever walked through the door.

Oh, and 4 interviews should be enough to get an offer. Or even 3 waitlist places.[/QUOTE]

 

[mvenus929]

1. I agree that the problem might be with the OP's interviewing demeanor. A red flag as obvious as activities or even test score should have prevented all the interview invites. The percentage does point to a problem during the interview

2. OP, your activities don't sound that bad to me...even though I guess you didn't do anything NOBODY else did, it sounds like your volunteering/shadowing hours should be average if not above. Does anybody else think that could be the problem?

I disagree. The last time I applied, I had four interview invites (out of 7 schools I submitted my secondary to), and two of them, including my state school, rejected me post-interview. While I'm sure my interview performance wasn't stellar, the ultimate reason they rejected me was because I didn't have a lot of clinical experience. I had the numbers, and other interesting activities to get invited, but I just didn't have anything to really back up my desire for going into medicine.

Granted, I had less clinical experience than the OP (a handful, literally, of shadowing hours, and a couple weeks working part-time for a physician at the time of my interviews, plus volunteering in a hospital for nearly a year with lots of patient interaction, but minimal interaction with the staff), but it still might be considered a problem, especially once you get to the interview stage and they're looking for a reason to favor one applicant over another.

 

[learnmdabc]

Thanks for your input mvenus...

There is actually one fold that I didn't reveal, or rather think about it until now. A lot of my volunteering experience is in Taiwan, since I go back every summer. My interviewer actually mentioned that in passing; though now that I think of it, the comment might be much more relevant than I supposed, given my already low volunteering hours. hmm.

 

[learnmdabc]

Catalystik: Thanks for taking the time to write that out. I appreciate it.

Still debating whether to take the MCAT though. The MCAT is a beast, but now that I have (or am forced to face) the opportunity of retaking it, I might have to oblige and kick its arse. = =

Your shadowing was more than enough, and you had some good variety.

All of the hospital volunteering was a community service, (along with the 200+ hours with the service organization) but alas, I agree that the actual patient interaction was about bottom 20th percentile.

You got some Leadership from the health class coordination. Maybe some Teaching too?

Clinical research is another acceptable way to gain clinical experience. Other than the research, what else can you do to gain face-to-face interaction with sick people NOW. With (potentially) another application season looming, you need to act to fill the holes in your application.

Work on replacing some of the LORs too.