2006 Match vs 2007

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Faebinder

Faebinder

Slow Wave Smurf
15+ Year Member
Joined
May 24, 2006
Messages
3,508
Reaction score
15
Members don't see this ad.
So last year the match was the _highest_ to ever get filled and the competition was supposed to be the fiercest it ever got.... despite the fact that they added ENT to the nrmp match.

And now, starting 2007, they will add Neurology to the match as well.

http://www.aafp.org/match/table14.htm

So what do you think will happen next year (2007)? Will it get better or worse?
 
Amazing that the fill rate is approaching 93%. I guess people are applying to a whole slew of programs and ranking all of them to make sure they match. Makes scrambling tough.
 
A friend at a decent but non-prestigious Internal Medicine program told me that they went a lot farther down their interviewee list and ranked some people who they might not have ranked in previous years, i.e. FMGs, because they didn't want to count on the scramble. As a result they filled 12 out of their 13 spots.

Don't know what it means. Just relating it.
 
It's also my impression that programs are willing to cast wider nets if they can avoid the scramble.
 
I didnt matched, participated in the scramble and it was HELL!!!

Im an AMG. Some people told me that the filled percentage is increasing because more FMG are participating!! I think that the total number of FMG in this match almost doubled the amount of last year!!

In my school I know of 3 AMG candidates that didnt match and werent succesful in the scramble!!!
 
Makes you wonder if it is politically correct to keep giving J-1 and H-1 visas when your home town graduates cant find a spot. After all, you are supposed not to be able to give a job to a none american until you have advertised it for a long time and _no_ american candidates applied.

My prediction... the amount of IMGs and AMGs that didn't make it this match will roll over to next year and make things even worse.
 
Faebinder said:
My prediction... the amount of IMGs and AMGs that didn't make it this match will roll over to next year and make things even worse.
Click to expand...

yep, I thought that too!!!!
 
Panda Bear said:
A friend at a decent but non-prestigious Internal Medicine program told me that they went a lot farther down their interviewee list and ranked some people who they might not have ranked in previous years, i.e. FMGs, because they didn't want to count on the scramble. As a result they filled 12 out of their 13 spots.

Don't know what it means. Just relating it.
Click to expand...

I'm sure some programs did a lot better, I'm sure some did a lot worse than the year before. I know of one IM program that only went 1/2 as far down the list to fill as they had in recent years. Hard to say what will happen in the 2007 match.
 
Solideliquid said:
Free market dude.
Click to expand...

Yeah seriously. Why should it be different than for any other industry? Just kick ass so you don't have to worry about it. 😎
 
I did my sub-I at Mt Sinai in Chicago and while they usually have almost 100% IMGs this yr they decided that they would fill a bunch of spots in the match rather than outside the match and as such they filled 100% of their spots with US grads.. IIRC they were DOs and the PD was super excited.

Keep in mind that some protections are in place. First the level of payment from the gub'ment is higher for US Grads than for FMGs.

My issue with all these FMGs is honestly 2 fold.

1) The brain drain that occurs in their home country

2) It is my understanding that when these FMGs land spots outside of the match it is a violation of the H-1 and J-1 visas because there is a clause in there that says they are supposed to only fill jobs that US workers cant.

Before anyone flames I matched my top choice in a field not overly full of FMGs. I dont have any personal incentive to keep them out but rather I am just stating my view.
 
I don't get how some places claim that if there was no H-1 or J-1 visas given then their hospitals would never get residents. Between US MD graduates, DO graduates, US/permanent Residents that graduated outside.... is there really that much left for pure J-1/H-1 needing graduates?
 
I think about 16,000 US MD Grads and 2500 or so DOs this yr.. thats 18,500. I think maybe throw in another 1500 or so US FMGs (Caribs). That gets you to 20K there are about 23K spots.

My numbers are rough but pretty accurate..

So thats about 3K spots left for them which is more than there are DO grads..
 
Solideliquid said:
Free market dude.
Click to expand...
Are you seriously arguing that the current system constitutes a free market?
 
Solideliquid said:
Free market dude.
Click to expand...



How is it a free market when IMG can get a contract way before the match and AMG's cant???
 
mig26x said:
How is it a free market when IMG can get a contract way before the match and AMG's cant???
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
mig26x said:
How is it a free market when IMG can get a contract way before the match and AMG's cant???
Click to expand...


Giving an IMG a contract outside the match is up to the programs isn't it? If they didn't want to do that they wouldn't, it's not the fault of the IMG/FMG.

Now, as an IMG myself that matched (US citizen), I think pre-matches are unfair to the rest of us...but then again there are plently (well, let's say most) of IMG/FMGs not getting to surgery/ENT/Derm/etc. simply because of their IMG status.

Is that fair? No matter what we say here ALL programs want to fill with AMGs, and those are the people the majority of programs hand out interview invites to first. What I'm saying is with the exception of FMG farms in NY/NJ/others most programs prefer to fill with AMGs. The system is already in place to favor AMGs over IMGs.
 
The only way the match works is because all US MS4s are mandated to enter the match. Without their participation being mandatory the match would fail and chaos would ensue.

"Independent candidates" don't have to participate in the match. They can "pre-match." Since US MS4s are mandated to go through the match, it makes sense to give them priority for it in a 1st iteration, like the Canadian system.
 
neutropenic said:
The only way the match works is because all US MS4s are mandated to enter the match. Without their participation being mandatory the match would fail and chaos would ensue.

"Independent candidates" don't have to participate in the match. They can "pre-match." Since US MS4s are mandated to go through the match, it makes sense to give them priority for it in a 1st iteration, like the Canadian system.
Click to expand...


Pretty weak.
 
neutropenic said:
The only way the match works is because all US MS4s are mandated to enter the match. Without their participation being mandatory the match would fail and chaos would ensue.

"Independent candidates" don't have to participate in the match. They can "pre-match." Since US MS4s are mandated to go through the match, it makes sense to give them priority for it in a 1st iteration, like the Canadian system.
Click to expand...

MS4s are not mandated to go through the match. Granted their options are much much less, but it isnt a mandate. Monopoly and monstrosity to keep wages low, etc...possibly.
 
Solideliquid said:
Free market dude.
Click to expand...
Its not a free market, it is an artificial highly regulated process why not make one more rule to help American graduates.
 
rybozyme said:
Its not a free market, it is an artificial highly regulated process why not make one more rule to help American graduates.
Click to expand...


Okay, what about the american citizen IMGs?
 
rybozyme said:
Its not a free market, it is an artificial highly regulated process why not make one more rule to help American graduates.
Click to expand...

Can't see why AMG's need more help. FMG status is - almost invariably - a detriment. This is true both in perception and outright in many programs. The only reason some programs are taking mostly FMG's is because they're primary care programs - a specialty being rejected more and more frequently by AMG's every year.

AMG's have the edge in med school rep (UC Davis vs. Xhinogottonagi U), English, contacts, cost, and general preference of most PD's in every specialty. If an AMG doesn't match to an IM or FP program, my first thought is: their top choices were not primary care and they were beat out by better AMG's in competitive programs...they're just whining that their backup programs were filled pre-match by FMG's happy to do primary care. Or, they're freaks that can't interview coherently.

As a FMG, let me assure you...the field is certainly not level. There are many more hurdles for us.

Jeez - somebody call the whaaaambulance.
 
secretwave101 said:
...Xhinogottonagi U...
Click to expand...

Is this an actual university? Sounds exotic. Wat part of the world might it be in?
 
It is pretty much certain that PDs are ranking virtually all applicants in order to fill their programs and avoid the scramble. Your interview has to go pretty badly for you to not make it to the rank list after interview in many of the fields. However, PDs have a good idea about how far down the list they usually have to go. Ranking someone lower than that number allows them to have a cushion and also to see where you matched because programs get to see where each applicant they ranked has matched to. (a few weeks after match day).

Some PDs are weary of scramblers because they are concerned that the scrambler does not really want to be there and will not be happy.

With all of that said, the match is still wide open and mostly merit-based,but there is no concrete equation which guarantees that you will match to a certain program.
 
inositide said:
With all of that said, the match is still wide open and mostly merit-based,but there is no concrete equation which guarantees that you will match to a certain program.
Click to expand...

Tell me about it. I did well in my advanced match (to #3) but went down to near the end of my list for my prelim-medicine/transitional year match. Got pretty competitive invites but some programs I applied to that are predominantly IMG did not grant me the favor of an invitation (for prelim).

Funny thing was when cleaning my room, I found an invite for a transitional year program in an envelope that I failed to open. Since most of my invites were by email, it fell through the cracks, and I just thought they didn't invite me. Funny that.
 
I should add that there are numerous FMG's who manage to gain a spot in truly excellent programs - occasionally somewhat to very competitve ones. But AMG's should concede the fact that these particular (and relatively few) FMG's are pretty incredible. They've overcome many hurdles that AMG's do not have to deal with and STILL beat out AMG's to get a spot. These aren't the applicants flooding the residency pools, however...and they deserve props, not more hinderances.

Xhinogottonagi U is located in that country many Americans call "Not Me-ica". It's easy to find if you look for it.
 
neutropenic said:
Tell me about it. I did well in my advanced match (to #3) but went down to near the end of my list for my prelim-medicine/transitional year match. Got pretty competitive invites but some programs I applied to that are predominantly IMG did not grant me the favor of an invitation (for prelim).

Funny thing was when cleaning my room, I found an invite for a transitional year program in an envelope that I failed to open. Since most of my invites were by email, it fell through the cracks, and I just thought they didn't invite me. Funny that.
Click to expand...

It still amazes me that in this day and age programs still send out _mail_ invitations instead of emailing or phone calls.
 
secretwave101 said:
Can't see why AMG's need more help. FMG status is - almost invariably - a detriment. This is true both in perception and outright in many programs. The only reason some programs are taking mostly FMG's is because they're primary care programs - a specialty being rejected more and more frequently by AMG's every year.

AMG's have the edge in med school rep (UC Davis vs. Xhinogottonagi U), English, contacts, cost, and general preference of most PD's in every specialty. If an AMG doesn't match to an IM or FP program, my first thought is: their top choices were not primary care and they were beat out by better AMG's in competitive programs...they're just whining that their backup programs were filled pre-match by FMG's happy to do primary care. Or, they're freaks that can't interview coherently.

As a FMG, let me assure you...the field is certainly not level. There are many more hurdles for us.

Jeez - somebody call the whaaaambulance.
Click to expand...


That being said...AMG's should get first shot. Our families have paid taxes to fund medicare and build the hospitals you aspire to train in. As far as American citizen IMG- let them have first shot as well.
 
I am also a US IMG. I think that US citizens should have the opportunity to fill residency spots first. Isn't that why we live and pay our taxes here? We are the ones who would have to put our lives on the line during war for our country.

There also needs to be more MD schools opened. The amount of money our country loses is incredible. The tuition we pay these days makes schools a profitable venture. Not to mention the thousands of excellent jobs new schools could create for our people. Some states don't even have a school (Wyoming, Idaho and Montana to name a few.) Many states in the west only have one as well (Washington, Nevada, Oregon, Utah, Colorado, New Mexico.)

Give me a break!!!!

What the hell are we doing!!!!!
 
I am 'Amurican', hear me roar...you are *not* entitled to a residency spot because you pay taxes and your forefathers tilled the soil upon which our country was built.
Residency programs may choose whomever they please for whatever reason: step scores, recs, "fit". Any AMG or US citizen IMG essentially has first dibs regardless. In my humble opinion, that is.
Oh, and I am a US citizen AMG who matched.
sd
 
Well I am also an American grad that matched and I believe Residency positions should only be offered to foreign citizens if there are no qualified Americans to fill the spot.

If the Residency system was privately funded I would feel differently, but it's not. It's funded with American taxes so they should look out for Americans first.

Then, if there are spots left over, we can look out for doctors from other countries.

I got nothing against FMG's, I just believe tax money should be spent on the people that paid the taxes.
 
I was checking the stats on the NRMP webpage and although US Seniors match in the high nineties, American Physicians only matched 50 percent of there applicants!!

I echo the expressions of fellow members here that say that spots should only be given to IMG's (not including US IMG's) AFTER ALL American graduates or physicians have a spot available!!
 
Dr. V said:
Well I am also an American grad that matched and I believe Residency positions should only be offered to foreign citizens if there are no qualified Americans to fill the spot.

If the Residency system was privately funded I would feel differently, but it's not. It's funded with American taxes so they should look out for Americans first.

Then, if there are spots left over, we can look out for doctors from other countries.

I got nothing against FMG's, I just believe tax money should be spent on the people that paid the taxes.
Click to expand...


What about the tax-paying patients who are going to be cared for by these residents? The spots should go to the most qualified. And honestly, if you're an American grad who can't match over an FMG, then you screwed up somewhere. Either you sucked during med school or the boards, you didn't apply/interview at enough places, you're a horrible interviewer, you didn't rank enough places, etc.
 
CameronFrye said:
What about the tax-paying patients who are going to be cared for by these residents? The spots should go to the most qualified. And honestly, if you're an American grad who can't match over an FMG, then you screwed up somewhere. Either you sucked during med school or the boards, you didn't apply/interview at enough places, you're a horrible interviewer, you didn't rank enough places, etc.
Click to expand...



Great reply, Cameron. This can be a complex issue. Being a tax-paying, hard working, contributing to society, heart-felt, non-biased USIMG family practice physician in the good ole' U.S. of A., I certainly know some of the pety stigma that is "placed" on us (often unspoken but thought of). Medicine is a beautiful field where pathology does not discriminate. Humans are humans and we get sick. Limiting our practice because of our "status" simply shows our ignorance. Funny how this issue is only within our confines. I look forward one day when one of my patients ask me where I did my medical school: "Doc, before you do a pelvic, where did you do your schooling?" Interesting that question has never been a factor of even been asked.
US grad or not, it comes down to the best and most qualified applicant..... PERIOD!
 
fpdoc06 said:
Great reply, Cameron. This can be a complex issue. Being a tax-paying, hard working, contributing to society, heart-felt, non-biased USIMG family practice physician in the good ole' U.S. of A., I certainly know some of the pety stigma that is "placed" on us (often unspoken but thought of). Medicine is a beautiful field where pathology does not discriminate. Humans are humans and we get sick. Limiting our practice because of our "status" simply shows our ignorance. Funny how this issue is only within our confines. I look forward one day when one of my patients ask me where I did my medical school: "Doc, before you do a pelvic, where did you do your schooling?" Interesting that question has never been a factor of even been asked.
US grad or not, it comes down to the best and most qualified applicant..... PERIOD!
Click to expand...

Amen....couldn't agree more!
 
US takes more FMGs than all other nations, COMBINED. We dont owe a dman thing to these FMGs. They serve at our pleasure.

The current setup is good enough. Generally speaking, AMGs have advantages over FMGs. I agree with the current Medicare setup in which FMG residency slots get paid less by Medicare than AMG slots.
 
Faebinder said:
Makes you wonder if it is politically correct to keep giving J-1 and H-1 visas when your home town graduates cant find a spot. After all, you are supposed not to be able to give a job to a none american until you have advertised it for a long time and _no_ american candidates applied.

My prediction... the amount of IMGs and AMGs that didn't make it this match will roll over to next year and make things even worse.
Click to expand...

You left the US IMGs out of the question. They have a shot at it too!
 
secretwave101 said:
Can't see why AMG's need more help. FMG status is - almost invariably - a detriment. This is true both in perception and outright in many programs. The only reason some programs are taking mostly FMG's is because they're primary care programs - a specialty being rejected more and more frequently by AMG's every year.

AMG's have the edge in med school rep (UC Davis vs. Xhinogottonagi U), English, contacts, cost, and general preference of most PD's in every specialty. If an AMG doesn't match to an IM or FP program, my first thought is: their top choices were not primary care and they were beat out by better AMG's in competitive programs...they're just whining that their backup programs were filled pre-match by FMG's happy to do primary care. Or, they're freaks that can't interview coherently.

As a FMG, let me assure you...the field is certainly not level. There are many more hurdles for us.

Jeez - somebody call the whaaaambulance.
Click to expand...

thank you.
 
fpdoc06 said:
Great reply, Cameron. This can be a complex issue. Being a tax-paying, hard working, contributing to society, heart-felt, non-biased USIMG family practice physician in the good ole' U.S. of A., I certainly know some of the pety stigma that is "placed" on us (often unspoken but thought of). Medicine is a beautiful field where pathology does not discriminate. Humans are humans and we get sick. Limiting our practice because of our "status" simply shows our ignorance. Funny how this issue is only within our confines. I look forward one day when one of my patients ask me where I did my medical school: "Doc, before you do a pelvic, where did you do your schooling?" Interesting that question has never been a factor of even been asked.
US grad or not, it comes down to the best and most qualified applicant..... PERIOD!
Click to expand...

Well if you will notice I said "QUALIFIED" American graduate.

No, I didn't have any trouble matching, I got my first choice so there is no whining here. My opinion is based solely on the Residency system being paid by American taxpayers.

Sure if they are not qualified then it goes without saying that they shouldn't be a doctor, however I don't think American medical schools are in the habit of turning out graduates that are not qualified 😉

If it was privately funded it would be one thing, but it's not. I do like that programs take a funding hit for non American grads, but I do not think foreign grads should be allowed to prematch. If there are slots after the match so be it.
 
Dr. V said:
Well if you will notice I said "QUALIFIED" American graduate.

No, I didn't have any trouble matching, I got my first choice so there is no whining here. My opinion is based solely on the Residency system being paid by American taxpayers.

Sure if they are not qualified then it goes without saying that they shouldn't be a doctor, however I don't think American medical schools are in the habit of turning out graduates that are not qualified 😉

If it was privately funded it would be one thing, but it's not. I do like that programs take a funding hit for non American grads, but I do not think foreign grads should be allowed to prematch. If there are slots after the match so be it.
Click to expand...

If I believe correctly....aren't FMG/US Grad....all residents....tax payers????
 
Shah_Patel_PT said:
If I believe correctly....aren't FMG/US Grad....all residents....tax payers????
Click to expand...


No, if they are foreign they haven't paid a dime at the time of the match while I have paid taxes and supported the Residency programs financially for 21 years (I started working when I was 16).

American IMG's are American Citizens and should be entered in the match accordingly.

Of course these are all my woulda coulda shoulda things. I guess working in the fields and factorys all my life and having a huge amount of tax dollars taken from me shapes that opinion. I just think American tax money should be spent on Americans first. If there is some left over, then spend it on foreign grads.

I don't want to cut them out, I just don't want tax money spent on foreign grads at the expense of, once again, qualified American grads (people that aren't qualified shouldn't be doctors regardless of where they are from).
 
Agreed 100%... The US citizens IMGs families pay into the tax... Their relatives have more of a right to have one of their family get a residency than others who havent paid into the tax system.
 
Dr. V said:
No, if they are foreign they haven't paid a dime at the time of the match while I have paid taxes and supported the Residency programs financially for 21 years (I started working when I was 16).

American IMG's are American Citizens and should be entered in the match accordingly.

Of course these are all my woulda coulda shoulda things. I guess working in the fields and factorys all my life and having a huge amount of tax dollars taken from me shapes that opinion. I just think American tax money should be spent on Americans first. If there is some left over, then spend it on foreign grads.

I don't want to cut them out, I just don't want tax money spent on foreign grads at the expense of, once again, qualified American grads (people that aren't qualified shouldn't be doctors regardless of where they are from).
Click to expand...

Your point...well taken..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

WildWing
House Investigating the Match
Replies
11
Views
2K
abc123412
A
lizardsuck
Switching residencies after successful match
Replies
12
Views
2K
Pharaoh787
P
N
Which is the hardest to match?
Replies
8
Views
3K
irwarrior
I
Mr.Smile12
Understanding the Ranking and Matching Behaviors During the 2023 and 2024 General Surgery Match Cycles: A Program Signaling Approach
Replies
0
Views
205
Mr.Smile12
Mr.Smile12
C
withdraw from match?
Replies
12
Views
4K
Lost in Translation
Lost in Translation
Top