2008 pathology applicants

[mlw03]

Considering that my school churns out an astounding 1 match per year in pathology, it makes a lot of sense to me that the rotation is "light" in terms of required work. I'm sure if you wanted to do more you could, but most people doing this rotation aren't headed into path and if you were, you wouldn't necessarily rotate at a place that doesn't have a residency program unless you had other reasons for doing so.

i'll be disappointed if i'm not allowed to do more. and as you mentioned, i do have another reason for wanting to be there. but it's hard to imagine a preceptor turning down a student who clearly wants to do and learn more.

by the way - what ever happened to my little list idea?

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[gbwillner]

i'll be disappointed if i'm not allowed to do more. and as you mentioned, i do have another reason for wanting to be there. but it's hard to imagine a preceptor turning down a student who clearly wants to do and learn more.

by the way - what ever happened to my little list idea?

Add me to the list....

 

[EUA]

Considering that my school churns out an astounding 1 match per year in pathology, it makes a lot of sense to me that the rotation is "light" in terms of required work. I'm sure if you wanted to do more you could, but most people doing this rotation aren't headed into path and if you were, you wouldn't necessarily rotate at a place that doesn't have a residency program unless you had other reasons for doing so.

Non-path people rotating at the ME's office is ridiculous. I know IM people who did it, but it always seemed really pointless to me except it's a blow-off rotation. I'd think they would do one in "regular" path since they'd probably learn a hell of a lot more that they could actually use in real life, and still not have to work hard....

 

[mlw03]

Non-path people rotating at the ME's office is ridiculous. I know IM people who did it, but it always seemed really pointless to me except it's a blow-off rotation. I'd think they would do one in "regular" path since they'd probably learn a hell of a lot more that they could actually use in real life, and still not have to work hard....

on a similar note, i would think that MS4s going into surgery would get a lot to do a month entirely on frozen sections, considering how important frozen section results can be in dictating intraoperative course. sure, there'd be down time, as frozens aren't being done all day, but perhaps in that down time the future surgeon could spend time with the pathologist reviewing permanent sections. i think such an elective would give them some insight into what goes into the final path reports that they see. i wonder if this exists at any med school? what do ya'll think of this idea?

 

[yaah]

Silly med student, don't you know that surgeons know more about the indications, limitations, and other important features of frozen sections than pathologists do?

 

[mlw03]

Silly med student, don't you know that surgeons know more about the indications, limitations, and other important features of frozen sections than pathologists do?

you're right - my bad. don't they know more medicine than the IM people too? let's just say what we're all thinking... surgeons are GODS!!.

 

[PuGanDoo]

on a similar note, i would think that MS4s going into surgery would get a lot to do a month entirely on frozen sections, considering how important frozen section results can be in dictating intraoperative course. sure, there'd be down time, as frozens aren't being done all day, but perhaps in that down time the future surgeon could spend time with the pathologist reviewing permanent sections. i think such an elective would give them some insight into what goes into the final path reports that they see. i wonder if this exists at any med school? what do ya'll think of this idea?

Yes, yes... surgeon = GOD

mlw, I think it is an excellent idea. But, hey, who are we to dictate what future surgeons should be doing... Actually, my attending on surgery did do this. She was pretty cool and was one of the attendings that was enthusiastic about my choice of specialties. She definitely has an appreciation for the supreme knowledge of the pathologist

 

[EUA]

Ironically, we have had a handful of surgery-bound med students through our department recently, all from the same med school, so either they're all intelligent people thinking ahead or they have an advisor that pushes a path rotation.

Either way - it's an awesome idea.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

Ironically, we have had a handful of surgery-bound med students through our department recently, all from the same med school, so either they're all intelligent people thinking ahead or they have an advisor that pushes a path rotation.

Either way - it's an awesome idea.

I was talking with an old-school surgeon (probably in his mid-late 60s) and he said that back in the day they actually were required by his program to rotate through pathology.

 

[deschutes]

I was talking with an old-school surgeon (probably in his mid-late 60s) and he said that back in the day they actually were required by his program to rotate through pathology.

It's still required of surgery/ObGyn/neurology/radiology residents at my med school.

Just imagine. No more explaining "it doesn't matter how much you breathe down our necks from the time the specimen hits the gross room - breasts aren't gonna formalin-fix any faster".

 

[yaah]

I was talking with an old-school surgeon (probably in his mid-late 60s) and he said that back in the day they actually were required by his program to rotate through pathology.

I think one interesting indicator of where things have gone is that when Ackerman first published his textbook (the one now written by Rosai), it was written for medical students, not pathologists.

 

[deleted113029]

I think one interesting indicator of where things have gone is that when Ackerman first published his textbook (the one now written by Rosai), it was written for medical students, not pathologists.

med students back in the day must have been super motivated to read several thousand pages...something tells me the 2-volume set was a little lighter back then.

 

[Tiki]

I think one interesting indicator of where things have gone is that when Ackerman first published his textbook (the one now written by Rosai), it was written for medical students, not pathologists.

I read a bit from those books during my rotation, and I was pretty surprised when I read in the preface that it was originally a text for med students. And to think most of my class thought Robbins was a chore to get through.


On an unrelated note, I have to pick my fourth year advisor to sign off on my schedule, and seeing as we don't have a Path residency program here, I'm unsure of who to ask. I guess I'm going to ask the elective director, who is really nice, but who kind of pushes me to apply to places that I'm not so interested in. I did pretty well on the boards, but for some reason this person keeps pushing me about one particularly community program.

 

[deleted113029]

I read a bit from those books during my rotation, and I was pretty surprised when I read in the preface that it was originally a text for med students. And to think most of my class thought Robbins was a chore to get through.


On an unrelated note, I have to pick my fourth year advisor to sign off on my schedule, and seeing as we don't have a Path residency program here, I'm unsure of who to ask. I guess I'm going to ask the elective director, who is really nice, but who kind of pushes me to apply to places that I'm not so interested in. I did pretty well on the boards, but for some reason this person keeps pushing me about one particularly community program.

did this person go or have a friend that went to that community program? find out that reason and report back to us.j/k just go to the places you are interested in and would like to know more about...or something.

 

[raptor5]

Along the lines of what djmd say...these away electives are audition rotations. You are being watched...from a program's and residents' perspectives, this is great because we can figure out over the course of a whole month whether you're a "hero" or a "zero".

What is the difference b/t a "hero" and "zero"

 

[DarksideAllstar]

What is the difference b/t a "hero" and "zero"

hero= fun to be around, not a burden, seems interested in what's going on (but not annoyingly so)

zero= complete tool, would rather spend all day on myspace than go to signout, socially awkward and inept, no tolerance for EtOH

 

[b&ierstiefel]

hero= fun to be around, not a burden, seems interested in what's going on (but not annoyingly so)

zero= complete tool, would rather spend all day on myspace than go to signout, socially awkward and inept, no tolerance for EtOH

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

[mlw03]

hero= fun to be around, not a burden, seems interested in what's going on (but not annoyingly so)

zero= complete tool, would rather spend all day on myspace than go to signout, socially awkward and inept, no tolerance for EtOH

to the residents out there: do you think you can tell the difference b/w the heros and the zeros based soley on interview day? if not, what kind of input are you able to give your PD about the applicant(s)?

 

[Tiki]

zero= complete tool, would rather spend all day on myspace than go to signout, socially awkward and inept, no tolerance for EtOH

I'm screwed, I have no tolerance when it comes to alcohol.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I'm screwed, I have no tolerance when it comes to alcohol.

I suggest you consider the IM and IM Subspecialties Forum from here on out...

 

[DarksideAllstar]

to the residents out there: do you think you can tell the difference b/w the heros and the zeros based soley on interview day? if not, what kind of input are you able to give your PD about the applicant(s)?

I would think that it would be difficult for residents to pick out either, gven the amount of time they spend with you (maybe 1, 2 hours at most). On the other hand you can usually pick up on the extremes of either type of candidate in a short amount of time ("we love this person and want them to come" vs "if this person ends up here we will all transfer to another program").

Away's are helpful for the applicant and program. You get a chance to "feel each other out" so to speak. I think its why so many people advocate that applicants rotate at places that they are very interested in. There was a place that I was very interested in, but ultimately I didn't feel like the program (read: residents and attendings) meshed well with my personality after being there for 4 weeks.

 

[Tiki]

I suggest you consider the IM and IM Subspecialties Forum from here on out...

I'd rather gauge out my eyes with a pencil. I can build my tolerance.

 

[DarksideAllstar]

I'd rather gauge out my eyes with a pencil. I can build my tolerance.

That's what I'm talkin' bout--perserverance!

 

[CameronFrye]

On the other hand you can usually pick up on the extremes of either type of candidate in a short amount of time ("we love this person and want them to come" vs "if this person ends up here we will all transfer to another program").

Agreed.

 

[b&ierstiefel]

I'd rather gauge out my eyes with a pencil. I can build my tolerance.

See, people like this seem to be a rarity these days. Some people will just step it up and make a difference! Now that's a hero! Not a zero!

Baby steps...for a noble cause

 

[b&ierstiefel]

to the residents out there: do you think you can tell the difference b/w the heros and the zeros based soley on interview day? if not, what kind of input are you able to give your PD about the applicant(s)?

First impressions are tricky cuz that's all you really have to go on when you meet someone just visiting for one interview day. So it can be difficult to truly differentiate the heros from the zeros. But, maybe it's OK to be not as ambitious as this and just try to differentiate the dudes from the duds. There are certain characteristics we can pick up on though. If there is something really glaring, we can let the PD know.

 

[Tiki]

See, people like this seem to be a rarity these days. Some people will just step it up and make a difference! Now that's a hero! Not a zero!

Baby steps...for a noble cause

Now if I could just fix the fact that I'm a social ******, maybe I'd have a real chance to be a hero.

 

[docbiohazard]

I know this thread is somewhat stale... but in the spirit of answering the original poster's question/call, I'd go ahead and declare my intent to apply to Path programs in 2008.

So I'll be lurking around, chiming in when I have something to contribute. I'm an MD/PhD student, with research interests, but not quite ready to dive into the whole research thread... working on my list of programs to apply to, trying to learn about who does what where, etc etc. Good times.

BH

 

[mlw03]

I know this thread is somewhat stale... but in the spirit of answering the original poster's question/call, I'd go ahead and declare my intent to apply to Path programs in 2008.

So I'll be lurking around, chiming in when I have something to contribute. I'm an MD/PhD student, with research interests, but not quite ready to dive into the whole research thread... working on my list of programs to apply to, trying to learn about who does what where, etc etc. Good times.

BH

welcome to the club

 

[Tiki]

Does everybody else keep getting letters from the Mayo Clinic? I feel like I get a new one every week.

I'm so frustrated with setting up my away electives. I really want to do one at UVa but the application isn't up yet.

 

[LurkNoMore]

I have gotten several from Mayo, and yes, it is a pain that UVA doesn't have their stuff up yet.... Of course, I am looking to do an anesthesia rotation..... (I am gonna look at path too as an MS4, I just have a lot of other confusion going on too ).

 

[mlw03]

no, i haven't gotten any letters from anyone. what are you referring to? do they seem personalized, or do they seem more like a generic mailing they send to all potential applicants they may have gotten off a list or something like that?

Does everybody else keep getting letters from the Mayo Clinic? I feel like I get a new one every week.

I'm so frustrated with setting up my away electives. I really want to do one at UVa but the application isn't up yet.

 

[Tiki]

no, i haven't gotten any letters from anyone. what are you referring to? do they seem personalized, or do they seem more like a generic mailing they send to all potential applicants they may have gotten off a list or something like that?

It's a generic letter that they send out to people saying come do an away rotation and do your residency here. I'm actually considering do an away there, because it's one of the least expensive places I've seen with regards to housing. The only problem is that the away application is insane. They want a CV, a personal statement, your transcripts uploaded, a copy of your USMLE scores. I'm on freaking medicine right now, which is taking all of my time, I really can't do my CV and personal statement at the present time.

 

[mlw03]

It's a generic letter that they send out to people saying come do an away rotation and do your residency here. I'm actually considering do an away there, because it's one of the least expensive places I've seen with regards to housing. The only problem is that the away application is insane. They want a CV, a personal statement, your transcripts uploaded, a copy of your USMLE scores. I'm on freaking medicine right now, which is taking all of my time, I really can't do my CV and personal statement at the present time.

they want a personal statement just to do an externship?! that's a little crazy in my book. i guess that goes along with what i've heard about mayo as a whole - that they're very traditional and straight-laced. someone told me that doctors there don't wear white coats, instead they wear suits. but i guess when you're as good as the mayo clinic is supposed to be, you can set your own rules, eh?

 

[Sean2tall]

It's a generic letter that they send out to people saying come do an away rotation and do your residency here.

Wow, I had never heard of that. I got letters to apply to podiatry school and whatnot, probably due to having taken the MCAT. They're not specific to Path, I imagine?

Oh btw, I was looking into the requirements for some places away, and some seem a little crazy. According to the website, Ohio State wants, among other normal things: a tox screen, proof of ACLS certification (which we don't do until graduation), and a background check.

 

[Tiki]

Wow, I had never heard of that. I got letters to apply to podiatry school and whatnot, probably due to having taken the MCAT. They're not specific to Path, I imagine?

Oh btw, I was looking into the requirements for some places away, and some seem a little crazy. According to the website, Ohio State wants, among other normal things: a tox screen, proof of ACLS certification (which we don't do until graduation), and a background check.

It's just a generic "come do an away and consider doing your residency here" letter. Not specific to Path at all. I've also been getting them from UAB too. They must give out our addresses after we take Step 1.

So OSU wants ACLS certification? That's kinda crazy. I could maybe understand if you were trying to take an elective where you dealt with patients, but they should make an exception for Path electives. What are you going to do, save a dead guy before his autopsy?

 

[LurkNoMore]

want a LOR to apply in addition to all the other aforementioned stuff....

 

[Sean2tall]

So OSU wants ACLS certification? That's kinda crazy. I could maybe understand if you were trying to take an elective where you dealt with patients, but they should make an exception for Path electives. What are you going to do, save a dead guy before his autopsy?

Hah, that is just on their general website for away rotations, so maybe they would waive it for a path rotation. I would hope.

 

[docbiohazard]

Maybe they want you to have ACLS certification in case your attending has an MI during a particularly stressful sign-out?

 

[Tiki]

Three more weeks left of internal med!!!

I've decided the pain of the Mayo application isn't worth it. Now I'm looking into going to Vandy for a month. I really really am interested in doing a month at UVa, but they still don't have their application up yet. Figuring out my fourth year schedule is turning out to be quite stressful.

 

[vegasdo]

Thought I'd throw my name into the pool of 2008 applicants. I was initially considering anesth until I spent some time in the OR. Just finished a rotation with an ME at the coroner's office and loved it. Hopefully I will be able to do a surgical path rotation early 4th yr, probably in Phoenix. Anyone have any advice about the 2 programs there?

I wish everyone well in the upcoming year and hope to meet many of you on the interview trail.

 

[Monsterello]

New to SDN, but really excited about path! Whoop.

Tiki, just finished my 4th year schedule....and got what I asked for because I was picked pretty early in the lottery system, but now I might want to change everything! Feels like a mess.

Anyway, thought I might go back to the initial post and put the choices I've been tossing around out there....

UCSF
UCSD
Stanford
still looking at LA programs
MUSC
UNM
MCG
Emory
Chapel Hill
Wake Forest
Pitt

Some of those are due to location, which are the ones that I'm still looking into. I really want a program that has a lot of opportunity for research, but I don't know if I want to commit myself to research for my future. Everything is still up in the air. Very excited though.

 

[ygdrasil]

Since I've finally summoned the courage to come out as a future pathologist to my family and (even worse) my IM mentor, I might as well state here, anonymously, on the SDN forums, that I, too, want to be a pathology resident in 2008.

The programs I'm looking at are all midwest/west coast:

Mayo
U of Minnesota
U of Iowa
U of Nebraska
OHSU
U of Washington (Seattle)
U of Wisconsin
U of Michigan
U of SD

 

[mlw03]

welcome to the 2 latest applicants. i have a good "coming out" about path story. i just started my internal med rotation and the first thing one of the interns says to me (in a non-threatening way) is, "so, pathology, eh?". my response is, "how the hell did you find that out?" she wouldn't tell me, but later in the day i figured out that an IM doc that i know from our school ambulatory rotations had given each team a little info on each of the MS3's joining their team. as this intern is doing a prelim year before radiology she suggested she and i start wearing, "i hate patients" pins... jokingly. it's been nice to get overall positive responses for the most part.

there's definately some overlap in my application list and that of our two latest delcarees - maybe i'll run into ya'll, so again, welcome and i look forward to us encouraging and helping each other over the next 11 months.

 

[Tiki]

I might as well put up my application list, although this is subject to change.

U Penn
Brigham
MGH
BID
Yale
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Hopkins
UVa
Vandy
Emory
South Carolina
Duke
UNC
Wake

I'm thinking I should add some more programs, but I really want to stay on the East coast somewhere (although I have Vandy in). Anyone know of any other average to good east coast programs I'm missing?

 

[Sean2tall]

Coming-out is probably a good way to describe it. An interchange that happened yesterday on my peds rotation:


Attending: So what are your future plans?
Sean: Well, I'm thinking about maybe Pathology or Radiology. (Throws in a lot of maybes in and mentions Radiology, so it looks like he is struggling to make a hard decision and deserves a cheery consolation.)
Attending: (Disgusted face) Pathology? Ew, why?
Sean: (Off guard, mumbles something about liking to be a consultant and help other physicians.)
Attending: I don't know where you're hearing that, but I never go to see a Pathologist. Maybe, like, once a year.
Sean, inner monologue: Sweet, so I don't have to deal with you either?
Other student: Wow, you must really hate patients!

-But alas, other student was not immune, either.-

Attending: What do you want to go into?
OS: Emergency Medicine.
Attending: You'll burn out.

 

[Tiki]

Coming-out is probably a good way to describe it. An interchange that happened yesterday on my peds rotation:


Attending: So what are your future plans?
Sean: Well, I'm thinking about maybe Pathology or Radiology. (Throws in a lot of maybes in and mentions Radiology, so it looks like he is struggling to make a hard decision and deserves a cheery consolation.)
Attending: (Disgusted face) Pathology? Ew, why?
Sean: (Off guard, mumbles something about liking to be a consultant and help other physicians.)
Attending: I don't know where you're hearing that, but I never go to see a Pathologist. Maybe, like, once a year.
Sean, inner monologue: Sweet, so I don't have to deal with you either?
Other student: Wow, you must really hate patients!

-But alas, other student was not immune, either.-

Attending: What do you want to go into?
OS: Emergency Medicine.
Attending: You'll burn out.

Out of all the attendings I've dealt with on internal med, only one has not belittled path or made some comment about how only people who hate patients go into path. It's kind of frustrating, but I get my little moments of glee when the attendings start talking about the 8000 different types of blood pressure medication and how important it is to know when I'm an intern.

 

[TheMightyAngus]

I might as well put up my application list, although this is subject to change.

U Penn
Brigham
MGH
BID
Yale
Mt. Sinai
Cornell
Hopkins
UVa
Vandy
Emory
South Carolina
Duke
UNC
Wake

I'm thinking I should add some more programs, but I really want to stay on the East coast somewhere (although I have Vandy in). Anyone know of any other average to good east coast programs I'm missing?

Looking through these lists, I've noticed that people apply to mostly "name" programs with one or two more local/regional programs maybe for backup. Is this self-selection? Are the # of applicants per program more favorable in path than other specialties? I know the elite programs are still competitive, but is matching at a solid "name" program within reach of most applicants?

 

[yaah]

Yes.

The reason (well, one reason anyway) people apply to a lot of name programs is that it is easy to apply. If they give you an interview, great, if not then so what, it didn't really cost anything. The local programs also might not be backup once you go through interviews and find that these programs are more suited to your career goals.

 

[106174]

Other student: Wow, you must really hate patients!

I would say "Yes, I do!" and add, if they engage you further, that you like dealing with people but not when they are sick.

Patient care is overrated, IMO. It is way too tedious and physically, mentally, and emotionally draining with very little satisfaction gained. Patients are demanding, non-compliant, and ungrateful (most of them are). This is one of the biggest reasons why I left Internal Medicine for Path. I never have a problem admitting to people that I do not like patient care - and I am proud of that!