This thread seems to come up frequently, so I thought I'd start one for anyone else applying this year having the same problem deciding that I am. I guess my situation is a little unique, since I am currently a UVA undergrad but my long-term boyfriend (who also went to UVA for undergrad) is a med student at VCU. I liked both schools but for different reasons. Whether in my particular situation or just in general, what do you all think between the two? Any input from current med students, especially M3s and M4s would be very helpful!
2009-2010 UVA vs VCU/MCV
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Ok, I'll try.
First off, either school is a fine school to go to and you will have no problem matching into whatever you want. That being said, UVa has a better reputation nationally and could help you if you want to leave the SE/Mid-Atl area. Another broad stroke: there is somewhat of a sentiment amongst physicians who have experience with students from both schools that is "if you want to teach or be in academia go to UVa, if you want to be a good clinician go to MCV."
From what I understand, UVa has excellent research facilities. VCU's are not as well regarded but nothing to scoff at. You will have no problem getting into high quality research at either institution.
3rd year seems to be a big dividing point between the two schools. At UVa they send you all around the state for your rotations, I'm not really sure how assignments work for that but UVa hospital doesn't have the patient volume and resident presence to handle all of its med students so they need to farm them out to other hospitals. MCV on the other hand has more than enough patients and residents to adequately teach their students in one hospital. MCV students also have to do a little bit of their time at the nearby VA hospital, which I hear is an interesting experience. MCV also has a satellite campus in Fairfax, VA for ~24 students a year to do all of their rotations, which, if you're interested in doing Ob/Gyn, is a fantastic choice as it is the 5th busiest birthing center in the US. Fairfax also has a pretty good cardio department as well from what I understand. So for rotations I'd probably have to give a big edge to MCV.
A couple of other things to consider as well. UVa is P/F for at least for the first 2 years if not all four (personally, I think first 2 years should be P/F and rotations graded but that is for another thread). UVa's pre-clinical curriculum ends in march-ish of second year to get an earlier start on third year which allows for more breaks, electives, etc. But MCV is soon going to be switching to this model (which is both a plus and a minus for MCV: Plus, because I think that schedule makes more sense; minus, because no one wants to be a guinea pig).
Finally, the biggest objective difference and advantage for MCV: Linda Costanzo, USMLE guru extraordinaire! She is really awesome. If you haven't heard of her, you will. No matter where you go to med school. She is HEAVILY involved in the pre-clinical curriculum and board review. In fact, I've found the entire med school administration to be extremely supportive here at MCV.
That's my $0.02, for now
First off, either school is a fine school to go to and you will have no problem matching into whatever you want. That being said, UVa has a better reputation nationally and could help you if you want to leave the SE/Mid-Atl area. Another broad stroke: there is somewhat of a sentiment amongst physicians who have experience with students from both schools that is "if you want to teach or be in academia go to UVa, if you want to be a good clinician go to MCV."
From what I understand, UVa has excellent research facilities. VCU's are not as well regarded but nothing to scoff at. You will have no problem getting into high quality research at either institution.
3rd year seems to be a big dividing point between the two schools. At UVa they send you all around the state for your rotations, I'm not really sure how assignments work for that but UVa hospital doesn't have the patient volume and resident presence to handle all of its med students so they need to farm them out to other hospitals. MCV on the other hand has more than enough patients and residents to adequately teach their students in one hospital. MCV students also have to do a little bit of their time at the nearby VA hospital, which I hear is an interesting experience. MCV also has a satellite campus in Fairfax, VA for ~24 students a year to do all of their rotations, which, if you're interested in doing Ob/Gyn, is a fantastic choice as it is the 5th busiest birthing center in the US. Fairfax also has a pretty good cardio department as well from what I understand. So for rotations I'd probably have to give a big edge to MCV.
A couple of other things to consider as well. UVa is P/F for at least for the first 2 years if not all four (personally, I think first 2 years should be P/F and rotations graded but that is for another thread). UVa's pre-clinical curriculum ends in march-ish of second year to get an earlier start on third year which allows for more breaks, electives, etc. But MCV is soon going to be switching to this model (which is both a plus and a minus for MCV: Plus, because I think that schedule makes more sense; minus, because no one wants to be a guinea pig).
Finally, the biggest objective difference and advantage for MCV: Linda Costanzo, USMLE guru extraordinaire! She is really awesome. If you haven't heard of her, you will. No matter where you go to med school. She is HEAVILY involved in the pre-clinical curriculum and board review. In fact, I've found the entire med school administration to be extremely supportive here at MCV.
That's my $0.02, for now
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That was quite informative.
I will be entering med school this August and I've purchased Linda Costanzo's Physiology Review book - it is a very helpful text. In fact, I wish I'd known about it before the MCAT as I believe it would have been a help. She does seem to be all she's been cracked up to be!
Best to you.
I will be entering med school this August and I've purchased Linda Costanzo's Physiology Review book - it is a very helpful text. In fact, I wish I'd known about it before the MCAT as I believe it would have been a help. She does seem to be all she's been cracked up to be!
Best to you.
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I sent you a PM.
To add to the thread, I think that UVa is a stronger school, although MCV certainly has a great patient population. The boyfriend-issue complicates things, though.
To add to the thread, I think that UVa is a stronger school, although MCV certainly has a great patient population. The boyfriend-issue complicates things, though.
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Depends on how you are defining 'stronger'. Reputation nationally? Sure. Clinical training? Not so sure.
Something pre-meds tend to forget is that medical education is highly standardized, there is very little variation in medical education. Just about every school takes the same courses, rotations, shelf exams, usmles etc. The differences are in the little things, i.e. location, supportive environment, class schedule etc. Some might go as far as to say "there are no bad med schools in the US just ones that are bad for you".
Go where you will be happiest and provide you with an environment where you can succeed. Remember, it's not the school that makes you a successful doctor, it's the work you put into it.
That being said, I really wanted to go to UVa for personal reasons but didn't get in. I bear no grudges. However, I am very happy at MCV right now.
These are all things I have thought about before for the most part, but I appreciate the responses and they do put a slightly different spin on things for me. As for the location, etc, I have to come to really like both cities (despite having hated Richmond before getting to know it this year haha) but I do feel I fit in better with the student body at UVA- perhaps because I went to undergrad there. But it seems the biggest dividing point for people is in the differences in M3, right?
Also, not to worry, I have definitely heard of Dr. Costanzo- in fact, we have talked several times and I sat in on an M1 lecture see gave. She is an amazing person and I have no doubts that she is a huge asset to VCU.
Another question for those who are currently in med school: how much harder would it make life to have a relationship with someone at a different medical school in a different year than I am? I have heard that 3rd year that would be hard- so would that mean we would have 2 years where it would be hard to see each other since we'll be M3s at different times?
Also, not to worry, I have definitely heard of Dr. Costanzo- in fact, we have talked several times and I sat in on an M1 lecture see gave. She is an amazing person and I have no doubts that she is a huge asset to VCU.
Another question for those who are currently in med school: how much harder would it make life to have a relationship with someone at a different medical school in a different year than I am? I have heard that 3rd year that would be hard- so would that mean we would have 2 years where it would be hard to see each other since we'll be M3s at different times?
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it comes down to US News.. while I know it is a bad way to decide which med school to go to, it is nonetheless regarded as the ultimate source for rankings of med school
UVA is very highly ranked on US News.. VCU does not even come on US News
Thus UVA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VCU
Now VCU vs. EVMS... they are very similiar in reputation... I personally like EVMS more because of its location, its small class size, and Sentara Norfolk General Hospital (primary teaching hospital of EVMS) which is nationally renowned... and not to mention that Richmond really really really ugly.. it is clearly the poorest area and prob has the highest crime out of the three big cities- northern va, richmond, and Hampton roads area
In terms of admission competitiveness:
UVA >>>>>>>> EVMS > VCU (UVA has highest average entrance MCAT I believe followed by EVMS and then VCU)
UVA residency positions I have seen are heavily represented by almost all excusively AMG's... EVMS is mostly all AMG's.... VCU has quite a number of FMG's in their residencies however
but as for your question, I would go to UVA hands down... and you can quite easily visit your bf in richmond, as charlottesville is not that far from Richmond..... there shouldn't be any questions on this honestly
UVA is very highly ranked on US News.. VCU does not even come on US News
Thus UVA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VCU
Now VCU vs. EVMS... they are very similiar in reputation... I personally like EVMS more because of its location, its small class size, and Sentara Norfolk General Hospital (primary teaching hospital of EVMS) which is nationally renowned... and not to mention that Richmond really really really ugly.. it is clearly the poorest area and prob has the highest crime out of the three big cities- northern va, richmond, and Hampton roads area
In terms of admission competitiveness:
UVA >>>>>>>> EVMS > VCU (UVA has highest average entrance MCAT I believe followed by EVMS and then VCU)
UVA residency positions I have seen are heavily represented by almost all excusively AMG's... EVMS is mostly all AMG's.... VCU has quite a number of FMG's in their residencies however
but as for your question, I would go to UVA hands down... and you can quite easily visit your bf in richmond, as charlottesville is not that far from Richmond..... there shouldn't be any questions on this honestly
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A couple things: The only thing that USNWR rankings are good for are establishing $ received by NIH and national reputation. VCU/MCV is hurt slightly in national reputation by its name crisis. If you extrapolate the data that USNWR uses MCV comes out around the mid 60's but regardless for you to say "UVA >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> VCU" is asinine by ANY account.
Second, in terms of EVMS vs MCV MCAT scores. MCV's are sllllightly higher than EVMS' depending on the year or vice versa but MCV's GPA of incoming students is 0.2 (3.4 vs 3.6) higher than MCV and even in virginia MCV is regarded more than EVMS.
Third, residency =/= med school training
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Dude, this is kind of ridiculous. You're using completely irrelevant stuff to base your opinion on the med school itself. Most of your points are about NIH funding, rankings, residency and admission stats.
I interviewed at both and liked both a lot. The UVA clinical experience worried me a bit, and the MCV hospital has everything. Plus, UVA is doing a large change on their curriculum.
I would have been happy at both (UVA rejected me, though) and may attend MCV in August.
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This is offensive and poorly argued.
And francisco, USNWR ranks are not just based on research dollars. They also take into account GPA, MCAT, acceptance rate, yield %, residency director scores and peer assessment scores. I agree that there are many other things to take into account when choosing a medical school, however.
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I personally would never choose MCV because of its affiliation with VCU, a fourth tier college on US News.... I really believe it would have been better for the school to have not affiliated with VCU, and called themselves Medical College of Virginia... that just sounds so much more respectable than VCU school of medicine
Yes the GPA is higher at MCV as compared to EVMS, but I feel when comparing admission difficulty, MCAT is the best indicator, as GPA is very varied from one undergrad to another
EVMS traditionally I believe wants a 30 (29 and you borderline; EVMS focuses heavily on MCAT as compared to VCU; BTW I have heard now they are looking for a 31+), while I believe MCV looks at the application far more holistically than EVMS (My impression is that 28-29 at VCU is good enough assuming GPA and everything else is good). I know personally many many people who have not got into EVMS but did get into MCV... vice versa I have never heard... maybe because EVMS has a much smaller class size, thus making their selection process more difficult as compared to MCV
and location wise EVMS is infinetly better than MCV
and residency should be looked at, as traditionally AMG's dont want to go to undesirable locations... EVMS has mostly AMG's in their residency programs... the same cannot be said about MCV... I have looked at some of their residency programs and residents, and to be quite frank, they have a lot of FMG's and DO's...
It is very difficult to get into residency at EVMS if you are a FMG or DO from what I have seen
But UVA wins hands down over both schools, so the OP should go to UVA...
and all those who are trying to convince her otherwise, I believe are simply not being honest
Yes the GPA is higher at MCV as compared to EVMS, but I feel when comparing admission difficulty, MCAT is the best indicator, as GPA is very varied from one undergrad to another
EVMS traditionally I believe wants a 30 (29 and you borderline; EVMS focuses heavily on MCAT as compared to VCU; BTW I have heard now they are looking for a 31+), while I believe MCV looks at the application far more holistically than EVMS (My impression is that 28-29 at VCU is good enough assuming GPA and everything else is good). I know personally many many people who have not got into EVMS but did get into MCV... vice versa I have never heard... maybe because EVMS has a much smaller class size, thus making their selection process more difficult as compared to MCV
and location wise EVMS is infinetly better than MCV
and residency should be looked at, as traditionally AMG's dont want to go to undesirable locations... EVMS has mostly AMG's in their residency programs... the same cannot be said about MCV... I have looked at some of their residency programs and residents, and to be quite frank, they have a lot of FMG's and DO's...
It is very difficult to get into residency at EVMS if you are a FMG or DO from what I have seen
But UVA wins hands down over both schools, so the OP should go to UVA...
and all those who are trying to convince her otherwise, I believe are simply not being honest
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While I appreciate your honesty, I a) do not care about rankings in terms of numbers b/c I think what they use to calculate them are stupid, and b) have already turned down EVMS and other schools in favor of the other 2 so this thread is heading in an unhelpful direction. While I did like EVMS itself, it was much too laidback for me and definitely has more a "party med school" rep than I am looking for. While I like to have fun, that's just not what I want out of my medical education. Also, I hate the tunnel traffic haha. So can we move on from comparing MCV to EVMS already?
On a separate note, I happen to know several people who got into EVMS and not MCV- so it does happen. Now if we can get back to comparing UVA and VCU themselves. Anyone get into both/ how did you pick (other than the rankings mentioned above please)?
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I work at Penn and we have residents from FMG and DOs. There are people at those schools with 35+ MCAT (my friend at a DO school personally does and she killed the step1 265+ and matched ENT), there are also IMGs and FMGs that are absolute studs and attended their medical institution for whatever reason.
You can't decide to go to a school just because of the type of residents that affiliated hospital has. I'm sure the hospitals took everything in consideration when they thought about the care of their patients.
What the OP should think about is how she will perform in medical school. Would the OP try to visit the significant other everyweek to divert time from the studies? Or would she focus on school and just be unhappy/distracted. Looking back, do you want to say you gave your all to your relationship or to your training. It sucks but its a very human decision that everyone has to make - I don't think any doctor has a perfectly balanced life but he/she could certainly be very happy at almost all times.
All 3 schools are great and maybe you might want to wait until finances clear to see that aspect as well.
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OP, your situation is a relationship question, not really a med school question.
As for the oft cited criticism that UVA students having to do away rotations: try talking to actual MS3/4s, or recent grads, to get their opinion on this system. I have yet to find anyone who has actually gone through this training who thinks it is anything but a positive...
I think VCU is a great med school. But the persistent opinion (mainly perpetuated by VCU students) that the MS3/4 rotations at VCU are superior to those experienced by UVA students is frankly silly. For this to have any element of truth, there would have to be negative opinion surveys or reports from actual UVA students indicating dissatisfaction with the clinical experience, and it would also be reflected in the match.
OP, since you indicate you are an undergrad at UVA right now, try meeting some current med students - do you volunteer at the hospital? Talk to some of the MS3/4s yourself...I have, and I have zero qualms about the clinical rotation system at UVA.
Edit: just to be perfectly clear, OP, you can't go wrong choosing either med school. Your decision should boil down to the other factors, such as relationships and finances. And nobody here can advise you on that, but I do have opinions about hitching one's wagon to a "sig other" if you really want to hear them...you might get more useful comments if you start a separate thread on that particular issue.
As for the oft cited criticism that UVA students having to do away rotations: try talking to actual MS3/4s, or recent grads, to get their opinion on this system. I have yet to find anyone who has actually gone through this training who thinks it is anything but a positive...
I think VCU is a great med school. But the persistent opinion (mainly perpetuated by VCU students) that the MS3/4 rotations at VCU are superior to those experienced by UVA students is frankly silly. For this to have any element of truth, there would have to be negative opinion surveys or reports from actual UVA students indicating dissatisfaction with the clinical experience, and it would also be reflected in the match.
OP, since you indicate you are an undergrad at UVA right now, try meeting some current med students - do you volunteer at the hospital? Talk to some of the MS3/4s yourself...I have, and I have zero qualms about the clinical rotation system at UVA.
Edit: just to be perfectly clear, OP, you can't go wrong choosing either med school. Your decision should boil down to the other factors, such as relationships and finances. And nobody here can advise you on that, but I do have opinions about hitching one's wagon to a "sig other" if you really want to hear them...you might get more useful comments if you start a separate thread on that particular issue.
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UVA is P/F for first two years. Clinical rotations are graded because those actually matter for residency applications. But UVA is starting it's new curriculum with the incoming class of 2010... so if you're applying this year, you'll be a guinea pig. The new curriculum is pretty innovative, though, and fully integrated with the new medical learning complex.
FWIW, considering I'm not a med student, I don't think spending all your rotations in one hospital is a good thing... you can only be exposed to a certain segment of the patient population this way. There is a world of difference between an academic hospital and a community hospital.
You can't decide to go to a school just because of the type of residents that affiliated hospital has. I'm sure the hospitals took everything in consideration when they thought about the care of their patients.
Uh.... guess again. The quality of the residents has enormous importance to medical students. On inpatient rotations, you will spend far more time with the residents than with the faculty, so they do have a great impact on your experiences and your practical/bedside education, not to mention the role-modeling that occurs. While there are certainly superb international graduates and D.O. graduates who are residents at allopathic hospitals, having a high percentage of such residents is generally considered to be a negative. And, yes, hospitals do try to take "everything into consideration", but sometimes they don't do well in the NRMP and end up with applicants at the bottom of their list, or even via the unmatched/unfilled scramble. When I was interviewing for residency, the word was that VCU had more unfilled residency programs than either UVA or EVMS, and more IMGs.
Hey I'm a MS4 at UVA. Third year rotations here are something you should factor in, most students spend 3-5 months outside of Charlottesville, of which 1-2 months are usually either in Roanoke or Salem with the rest being around the state (sometimes waaay down in SW Va, sometimes in NoVa). It is kinda a hassle packing up your stuff and being away from your home and friends but it's also a good learning experience and I really liked all my away rotations. So if you really don't want to have to do this I wouldn't come here, but for me and for most people it's not a make-or-break aspect of our school.
I originally chose VCU over Georgetown and then ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist at the last second. It wasn't a hard choice for me to choose UVA - many of its strengths (national reputation, pass/fail for first two years, nice college town with D1 athletics) were important to me. And I have to say that after being here the thing I like most is the students - fun, friendly, hard-working. And the VCU students I've run into are the same way so it's not really a deciding point in my opinion.
I would agree with the earlier statement that UVA grads are in general more academic while VCU grads are more hands-on and clinically prepared to be a resident. Things I liked about VCU that made me choose it over Georgetown were in-state tuition, the clinical training, and the atmosphere - I liked the students and the stress level was much lower than Gtown. I don't agree with the thought that Linda Constanzo is VCU's greatest asset - I'd never heard of her until reading that post. I'm sure she helps VCU students prepare for the boards but you'll do fine on them coming out of either school.
Another issue that has been touched upon is quality of residents. I do think this is a factor, and in my biased opinion I think many departments here are on average better than ones at VCU. This matters to some people, and not at all to others.
To go back to national reputation, as I'm in the midst of applying for interviews right now, I do think that UVA's name helps. If you ace all your courses and crush the boards at either school you'll have no problem getting into the more competitive residencies but say you're a middle of the road student and you decide you want to do internal medicine at UCSF - I think UVA's name in this case would help your chances.
Also, location - CVille is a small college town while Richmond is more urban and has more restaurants/bars. I love CVille but after four years am itching for a bigger city.
I did find MS-3 to be the most difficult year but I'm not prepared to comment on how that will affect your relationship.
Lastly some UVA details - must admit I haven't paid much attention to our new curriculum but we will have a new med school building sometime soon which is a minor plus but in my opinion pales in comparison to other factors. I did heard that our curriculum isn't as condensed as it used to be so second year doesn't end quite as early as it used to.
You can't go wrong with either, I loved UVA, probably would have thought the same about VCU. Good luck!
I originally chose VCU over Georgetown and then ended up getting into UVA off the waitlist at the last second. It wasn't a hard choice for me to choose UVA - many of its strengths (national reputation, pass/fail for first two years, nice college town with D1 athletics) were important to me. And I have to say that after being here the thing I like most is the students - fun, friendly, hard-working. And the VCU students I've run into are the same way so it's not really a deciding point in my opinion.
I would agree with the earlier statement that UVA grads are in general more academic while VCU grads are more hands-on and clinically prepared to be a resident. Things I liked about VCU that made me choose it over Georgetown were in-state tuition, the clinical training, and the atmosphere - I liked the students and the stress level was much lower than Gtown. I don't agree with the thought that Linda Constanzo is VCU's greatest asset - I'd never heard of her until reading that post. I'm sure she helps VCU students prepare for the boards but you'll do fine on them coming out of either school.
Another issue that has been touched upon is quality of residents. I do think this is a factor, and in my biased opinion I think many departments here are on average better than ones at VCU. This matters to some people, and not at all to others.
To go back to national reputation, as I'm in the midst of applying for interviews right now, I do think that UVA's name helps. If you ace all your courses and crush the boards at either school you'll have no problem getting into the more competitive residencies but say you're a middle of the road student and you decide you want to do internal medicine at UCSF - I think UVA's name in this case would help your chances.
Also, location - CVille is a small college town while Richmond is more urban and has more restaurants/bars. I love CVille but after four years am itching for a bigger city.
I did find MS-3 to be the most difficult year but I'm not prepared to comment on how that will affect your relationship.
Lastly some UVA details - must admit I haven't paid much attention to our new curriculum but we will have a new med school building sometime soon which is a minor plus but in my opinion pales in comparison to other factors. I did heard that our curriculum isn't as condensed as it used to be so second year doesn't end quite as early as it used to.
You can't go wrong with either, I loved UVA, probably would have thought the same about VCU. Good luck!
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It'd be pretty tough for me to pick VCU over UVa, fiscal situation being equal. Make sure UVa's new curriculum suits your learning style, though.
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i graduated from uva med in 2008. i'd definitely pick uva... you get a great education, our matching is top-notch, it's a highly respected name nationally, it's P/F for all years but MS3, and cville is an awesome place to live. i had a very positive experience as a student there, i feel like they take care of students well (vs. experiences from my friends at other med schools).
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I am a current 4th year med student at MCV/VCU and I went to UVA for undergrad so I have perspective on both institutions.
A few things first: UVA does have a higher rank in US news and that does carry with it some help for residency. That said, I have interviewed at The Harvards, hopkins, penn, southwestern, yale and every other big name program on the east coast for residency in internal med. I will be honest, I have seen a few more UVA kids on the interview trail than VCU kids, for the reason that I do think that UVA's name carries more weight in academic research circles- which is exactly what the big names are.
In terms of the education of the first 2 years, I dont think you are going to see much of a difference. Your choice is really going to depend on whether you prefer MCV or UVA's curriculum. Both curriculums have no doubt changed to the point that they are unrecognizable to how they were when I applied and went through med school. So, I probably cannot help you too much there.
In terms of third and fourth year, I think that VCU sees a much higher volume of patients and has a much larger hospital and these things are what makes their quality of rotations better. Having to travel around during third year is a total pain. Having a VA hospital like VCU does is an excellent thing. While the VA is not a great place to be a patient, it is an excellent place to learn. After having gone through my clinicals at the VA, I view it as a negative if a program does not have a VA when I visit programs for residency.
From a clinical perspective, VCU's hospital sees a very different population. VCU takes care of roughly 50% of the indigent patients of the state of virginia and almost all the indigent patients from central virginia. While UVA does take care of indigent patients, their hospital no doubt sees a much higher volume of private patients. Private patients make up almost none of VCU's inpatient services.
Research- while VCU does have a decent amt of research (we fall right around 60ish in NIH funding) I have no doubt that UVA has more opportunities for students. I dont think anyone will argue that UVA wins hands down in this regard.
So in the end, I think your clinical training as a med student will be a bit better at VCU but the UVA reputation and research goes a lot longer than VCU's does. So, for applying to residency, the name UVA will likely open doors. I think, though, you cannot go wrong with either program. I have been very happy with my education at VCU and I have been one of the cheerleaders for VCU on this board.
Side note: Charlottesville is gorgeous.
A few things first: UVA does have a higher rank in US news and that does carry with it some help for residency. That said, I have interviewed at The Harvards, hopkins, penn, southwestern, yale and every other big name program on the east coast for residency in internal med. I will be honest, I have seen a few more UVA kids on the interview trail than VCU kids, for the reason that I do think that UVA's name carries more weight in academic research circles- which is exactly what the big names are.
In terms of the education of the first 2 years, I dont think you are going to see much of a difference. Your choice is really going to depend on whether you prefer MCV or UVA's curriculum. Both curriculums have no doubt changed to the point that they are unrecognizable to how they were when I applied and went through med school. So, I probably cannot help you too much there.
In terms of third and fourth year, I think that VCU sees a much higher volume of patients and has a much larger hospital and these things are what makes their quality of rotations better. Having to travel around during third year is a total pain. Having a VA hospital like VCU does is an excellent thing. While the VA is not a great place to be a patient, it is an excellent place to learn. After having gone through my clinicals at the VA, I view it as a negative if a program does not have a VA when I visit programs for residency.
From a clinical perspective, VCU's hospital sees a very different population. VCU takes care of roughly 50% of the indigent patients of the state of virginia and almost all the indigent patients from central virginia. While UVA does take care of indigent patients, their hospital no doubt sees a much higher volume of private patients. Private patients make up almost none of VCU's inpatient services.
Research- while VCU does have a decent amt of research (we fall right around 60ish in NIH funding) I have no doubt that UVA has more opportunities for students. I dont think anyone will argue that UVA wins hands down in this regard.
So in the end, I think your clinical training as a med student will be a bit better at VCU but the UVA reputation and research goes a lot longer than VCU's does. So, for applying to residency, the name UVA will likely open doors. I think, though, you cannot go wrong with either program. I have been very happy with my education at VCU and I have been one of the cheerleaders for VCU on this board.
Side note: Charlottesville is gorgeous.
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EVMS students also interview at places you mentioned. Now I won't get into the argument about EVMS vs. VCU/MCV as there will never be a clear answer on which school is better. Being an AMG, if a student does well on boards, clinical rotations, gets excellent LORS, then there is no program for which this applicant will not be considered for.
But being from UVA will give you an edge, I have no doubts about that... UVA is an excellent undergrad, med school, law school, MBA... UVA's name has a very well respected name
VCU- Virginia Commonwealth University.... 😕... I looked on US News and it is regarded as a 4th tier college... I honestly believe it would have been better that they still called themselves MCV and not VCU
I am glad that EVMS has not merged with any school .... (in fact there are possible rumors EVMS may merge with College of William and Mary which would be excellent... William and Mary is an excellent first tier college regarded as a public ivy http://hamptonroads.com/node/221471
As this article states, "Lester said he has discussed an affiliation with ODU but also doesn't rule out a link with the College of William and Mary in Williamsburg. "We're wide open talking about that," he said." (http://hamptonroads.com/node/221471)
I think that would be excellent to be called William and Mary Medical School or whatever it will be called if the merger indeed happens
If not, Eastern Virginia Medical School is also nice 😀.. and if it merges with ODU, I saw on US News that it is ranked third thier, much higher than VCU in the rankings
I know that is far better then Virginia Commonwealth University Medical College.. i really think VCU is an excellent school, but the name hurts the reputation a lot I think
But anyways, go to UVA!!!!!!!!
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I went to UVA undergrad and currently live in Richmond so I can provide some perspective on what it's like to live in both cities.
Charlottesville definitely is a college town. It has that "bubble" feel. It's close to the mountains and there is lots of natural beauty in the area. Big in sports (ok, not as big as say, Michigan). If you want to have the big football (60k+ attendance) experience, you can't get that at VCU, although UVA has been sinking in profile here recently. Maybe they'll make a comeback. Who knows. VCU apparently has a decent basketball team, but I don't really keep up.
Richmond feels less like a college town and more of "big little" city. It has better shopping. Pretty much every chain store in America has opened about 15 minutes from downtown (shopping area called Shortpump). There's also tons of local businesses in the area, including grocery stores, if you'd rather support them, too. Richmond has a gritty, real feeling that I definitely don't get from Charlottesville. I love driving north on 95 and seeing the skyline come up in the distance.
Cost of living is roughly the same. Charlottesville may be a little bit cheaper, especially further from campus. Richmond has a better arts scene (though Cville's isn't terrible, either); VCU actually is ranked #1 sculpture program in the country and very highly in other areas. As far as being a 4th tier school, that's the overall rating. VCU Arts is definitely prestigious. You won't have much interaction with VCU undergrads unless you actually seek it out, though. The campuses are totally separate.
VCU also scores points with me for having such a huge health sciences presence - dental school, physical therapy, occupational therapy, nursing, pharmacy, medicine. If you're from central/southern Virginia (especially if you're poor and from a rural area), MCV is THE place to go when you're sick. If you heard of somebody being taken to MCV, you know **** just got serious. The whole name change does have people still confused, and I do think it hurt VCU/MCV's reputation nationally, but maybe that will change in coming years.
Hope that provided something of what you can't easily grasp from each school's website.
The overall feel I get is if you're gunning to be a dermatologist, go to UVA. If you love the idea of working with the underserved, VCU just might be a better choice.
Charlottesville definitely is a college town. It has that "bubble" feel. It's close to the mountains and there is lots of natural beauty in the area. Big in sports (ok, not as big as say, Michigan). If you want to have the big football (60k+ attendance) experience, you can't get that at VCU, although UVA has been sinking in profile here recently. Maybe they'll make a comeback. Who knows. VCU apparently has a decent basketball team, but I don't really keep up.
Richmond feels less like a college town and more of "big little" city. It has better shopping. Pretty much every chain store in America has opened about 15 minutes from downtown (shopping area called Shortpump). There's also tons of local businesses in the area, including grocery stores, if you'd rather support them, too. Richmond has a gritty, real feeling that I definitely don't get from Charlottesville. I love driving north on 95 and seeing the skyline come up in the distance.
Cost of living is roughly the same. Charlottesville may be a little bit cheaper, especially further from campus. Richmond has a better arts scene (though Cville's isn't terrible, either); VCU actually is ranked #1 sculpture program in the country and very highly in other areas. As far as being a 4th tier school, that's the overall rating. VCU Arts is definitely prestigious. You won't have much interaction with VCU undergrads unless you actually seek it out, though. The campuses are totally separate.
VCU also scores points with me for having such a huge health sciences presence - dental school, physical therapy, occupational therapy, nursing, pharmacy, medicine. If you're from central/southern Virginia (especially if you're poor and from a rural area), MCV is THE place to go when you're sick. If you heard of somebody being taken to MCV, you know **** just got serious. The whole name change does have people still confused, and I do think it hurt VCU/MCV's reputation nationally, but maybe that will change in coming years.
Hope that provided something of what you can't easily grasp from each school's website.
The overall feel I get is if you're gunning to be a dermatologist, go to UVA. If you love the idea of working with the underserved, VCU just might be a better choice.
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Trailblazers, you are a rankings *****. It reeks from every one of your posts in this thread.
I'm done now.
I'm done now.
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This presupposes that an applicant has a choice between the 2 schools. In other words, acceptances at both schools. I don't know if the data exists, but I wonder how many people have this scenario, acceptances at both schools?
My guess is that for every 10 applicants accepted to both schools, 9 choose UVA. Those who choose VCU probably do it for personal reasons such as geography, proximity to family, better finaid package, etc. I seriously doubt if the choice comes down to 'derm vs underserved,' because both schools will prepare students for either path.
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I didn't apply to other Virginia schools but I am very impressed with UVa and very happy with my acceptance. When talking with a new resident (n=1) about schools I've been accepted to, he mentioned a impression/concern about the UVa grads he has met. He felt that their clinical years might not have been as "hands-on" as they needed to be and that they might be "less prepared' initially. That and the "around the state rotations" are a little concerning to me.
I really love the school, the "opportunities", the students, the town, the new facilities, and what I perceive to be pretty decent FA.(I went to an LAC so the big campus scene is appealing to me, and different than my other choices.)
Thank you to the posters contributing, and anything more anyone can add about the clinical years would be very helpful.
I really love the school, the "opportunities", the students, the town, the new facilities, and what I perceive to be pretty decent FA.(I went to an LAC so the big campus scene is appealing to me, and different than my other choices.)
Thank you to the posters contributing, and anything more anyone can add about the clinical years would be very helpful.
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The rumor about "lack of hands-on experience" for UVA med students seems to be self perpetuating.
The resident you talked to: how would he be in a position to evaluate the UVA med student preparation compared to grads of other med schools? Did he enter into a residency where he observed multiple UVA grads in action? Or is he just repeating the rumor? It would seem to me that UVA students would fare more poorly in the match than they do if residency directors had the same 'concerns' that pre meds and students at or from other schools seem to have.
FWIW - this "concern" about lack of hands-on experience is commonly voiced for grads of many of the top research schools, particularly some of the very top ranked schools like Stanford, Harvard, etc. Maybe there is something to it, or maybe it is more urban legend - who knows?
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Seriously I don't know why you brought up EVMS or why you are comparing VCU and EVMS on an MCV and UVA thread. I imagine you either go there or are going to go there or that VCU rejected you and you have an axe to grind... You seem to think that EVMS is a much better school than MCV which puzzles me a bit, but I will put it to bed once and for all. Since you like rankings:
Research: From the most recent NIH research data MCV ranks 56, EVMS ranks 120 (out of 127). For good measure UVA ranks 31. The only schools ranked worse than EVMS are the brand new schools and 1 of the carribean LCME accredited schools. http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2008/SchoolOfMedicine2008.xls
Residencies- there are more residencies and fellowship at MCV and they are more highly ranked. For instance there are more than twice the number of IM fellowship programs at MCV. This means you have the opportunity to be exposed to medical fields you may want to go into.
Hospitals- Both are similar level 1 trauma centers. MCV is larger and sees more inpts but both are ranked highly by US news (if that actually means anything)
Curriculum- both have changed. I know next to nothing here.
Match lists- Here are the most competitive programs in the most recent matches. Take from it what you will
MCV vs EVMS
Gas 20 vs 6
Rads 16 vs 5
Ortho 8 vs 0
Neurosurg 1 vs 0
Urology 4 vs 1
Derm 3 vs 2
Radonc 2 vs 2
ENT 1 vs 3
Associated university- Don't know why this would be an issue for medical education but... VCU is a so-so undergrad school. It is actually a 3rd tier university. Again, this doesn't help or hurt your medical education since the campuses are separate and essentially act autonomously. One thing I do have to give VCU undergrad credit for is that they have skyrocketed in the rankings in recent years.
Location- personally I prefer Richmond to Norfolk. Others will prefer norfolk. Richmond has like no traffic and is easy to get around. Norfolk is going to be a larger draw for concerts and is closer to the beach. Most people regardless would prefer Charlottesville because the 'ville is sweet. I am a bit biased since I went to college in C-ville.
Reputation- the hierarchy of medical schools in Virginia goes UVA > MCV > EVMS > VCOM. This really cannot be debated much.
Now back to our regularly scheduled program.
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So while UVA may not be as hands as MCV or have the same volume, it will affect you much more as a resident and much less as a medical student. What you need to see as a med student is the bread and butter cases, which you will at either place.
If this is someone's singular concern or reason for deciding against UVA, I wouldn't worry about it too much.
Residents are the ones who spend most of the time with the students and do most of the med student informal teaching. Interaction with residents will realistically make up the brunt of your clinical education. As a 3rd year, you will basically be attached to your intern or resident. They will be the ones going through differentials and watching your exams. Your attendings, while they play a large role in teaching, spend less time with the students than the residents. So each resident will have a good idea.
That said, everyone who graduates med school is going to be "ill prepared" for intern year. That is the nature of the beast. UVA grads no doubt fare very well and those who go to places like hopkins, MGH etc hold their own with the other excellent candidates from across the country.
OP, rereading your post, it sounds like you are mainly considering VCU because your BF is there. As you know, C-ville is very close to R-VA and you will have no problems seeing him during first and second year. So if you liked UVA better, it wont be much of a problem keeping the relationship going if you choose UVA. PM me if you have specific questions about VCU
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My impression from the conversation is that it was based on a very small sample of UVa students in his residency program confirming an opinion he may have already held. 😉
While he was critical about Yale, in particular, his "un-prepared students" list included schools in every research "tier". If I understood his criticism correctly, it wasn't the rank of the school......it was the relationship that students had with patients during rotations. Were they watching or were they assisting/doing? FWIW, this concern has been raised by many physicians I've talked to about the choice of med school. They all have been critical of the criteria lots of students use in deciding between schools (including their own choices). They say the clinical years are where we should concentrate our decision, especially if we have no idea what residency we hope to do. I don't know about you, but I'm finding that data hard to come by.
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Just to add to my post, one FP doctor I talked to started out wanting Radiology combined with some sort of Computer Science research interest so he chose his Top 20 research school at a time he said they were not very Family Practice friendly. Another went to a school light on Psychiatry which was of no concern to him as he wanted to be a Cardiologist. Of course, he's a Psychiatrist. Both felt, knowing what they know now, that other schools might have been better choices based on the quality of the clinical rotations overall (and, had they known, their specific areas). They were both very negative about choosing between schools based solely/primarily on rankings.
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I wasn't evaluating the schools based on hypothetical personal reasons. Also, I was using the "derm vs. underserved" as an illustration. Obviously things are more complicated than that.
PS When it comes down to it, everything is a "personal reason."
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I have said more or less the same thing repeatedly: pre meds concentrate far too much attention on the first 2 years of med school - the 'meat and potatoes' is in the last 2 years.
And I agree with you: finding data or reliable anecdotes to help one make an informed decision is very hard to come by. Part of the problem is that, during the interview process, applicants are more exposed to MS 1/2s than to the 3/4s...if you stay with a host, it is almost always a 2nd year...thus they have very little to say about the clinical rotations, but they will comment on the pre clinical stuff ad nauseum.
I was talking about this with a coworker also applying to medical school. The floor I work on (a relatively large ICU) has 4 particular phsycians we were comparing. All are nice guys, all are good physicians, but 1 went to what would be considered a "top" school and the other 3 went one each to the 3 schools here in MI. All 3 work the same job, and make the same money based on their experience. Go where (1) you feel the best about location and (2) where it's cheapest, thats the only things that matters in the end.
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To the OP: You may want to look at this tread
(http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=678138) and look at the comments made by Snowflake83... I would agree with everything he says from other stories I have heard about MCV, and that is why I did not even apply to MCV. I am from OOS, and I heard about MCV there.
Research: Yes, MCV has a lot more research going on as compared to EVMS. Departments wise, EVMS I believe has far stronger departments and especially in surgery, urology, endocrinology, emergency medicine... It is almost exclusively filled with AMG's... I just quickly looked at EM at VCU and it is filled with FMG's and DO's... I have heard that VCU departments have the most FMG's percentage wise as compared to the other two med schools in VA... so yes while research is less, the overall quality of EVMS department's is better
Hospitals: Both hospitals are great (I guess we both agree on that)
About the match list, the class size at EVMS is much smaller.. EVMS has a class size of about 115... is mcv really 250??? (http://www.healthsystem.virginia.edu/internet/med-curriculum/pom/recommendations/class_size_rec.cfm).. that is huge......
and the other thing, is that EVMS is built on principles of primary care (it is a community medical school).... remember IM counts as primary care, but if you need to see the IM programs where EVMS students have matched..... some of those IM programs are harder to match into than gas or rads....
Also I have heard the average USMLE score of EVMS was 222 with 1/3 of the class getting above a 235 if that helps....
Location- I admit I never went to the MCV campus, but I once visited VCU and I saw a park filled with homeless people... don't know about MCV campus, but that was a big reason also I did not apply to MCV.... I have heard that EVMS is in an absolutely gorgeous place... OOS people regard richmond as a ghetto...
Associated University- Well I am surprised VCU is third thier, because I think last time I saw these undergrad rankings, VCU was in fourth tier.. maybe its at the bottom of the third tier.. but having MCV merged with VCU I know cannot help... can it make the reputation worse.. possibly... This is just my belief and I maybe totally wrong about this, but I dont think EVMS will merge with ODU partially because of the US News ranking of ODU... I think with William and Mary, it maybe a different story
and I am not sure about this but I heard there are a good chunk of students who get into MCV from VCU without having to take the MCAT.... people may argue that these kids are exceptional, but honestly, coming from VCU (a very lowly ranked school) and getting a guaranteed admission to MCV is kinda hard to believe...
Reputation: UVA is regarded as the best. But VCU vs. EVMS, there is no definitive ranking. US News ranks neither. It is more of a preference, and I think that the atmosphere's are very very very different at both schools... it depends on which the student feels he/she would fit in better in
For you VCU > EVMS. For me EVMS > VCU. Neither one of us can be right about this since it really depends on the student. I just find I could never find myself at VCU
Could I find myself at UVA? Yes. Did I get in? No.
OP, Go to UVA
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I have so many problems with your last post TB100, that I don't even want to bother picking it apart. You based your decision to not apply to MCV because of what one student on one thread said expressing dissatisfaction? Especially when other current students from the same school also posted confusion about where the dissatisfied poster was coming from? Seems foolhardy to me.
There is a lot of good information in this thread for anyone to make a well informed decision. Please disregard TB100's last post.
All things being equal pick UVa over MCV... but all things are never equal. Go with what feels right for you, you'll be able to go into whatever field you want if you put in the work coming out of either school. MCV's name will not hinder you and UVa's name will probably help you but in the end it won't make a big difference.
Good luck and be happy!
There is a lot of good information in this thread for anyone to make a well informed decision. Please disregard TB100's last post.
All things being equal pick UVa over MCV... but all things are never equal. Go with what feels right for you, you'll be able to go into whatever field you want if you put in the work coming out of either school. MCV's name will not hinder you and UVa's name will probably help you but in the end it won't make a big difference.
Good luck and be happy!
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http://www.vcu.edu/mcved/residents1.html
http://www.evms.edu/evms-dept.-of-e...ncy-medicine-residency-program-residents.html
You, sir, are talking out of your rear end.
MCV has 27 residents of which 3 are DO and 1 FMG
EVMS has 27 residents 2 of which are FMGs
Incidentally, one of the brightest doctors I know is a DO.
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I'm probably going to regret getting into this discussion as soon as I start to dissect trailblazer's argument, but there's so much ridiculous misinformation in there that my heart goes out to some poor random premed looking at this and becoming confused. Besides, no one else seems up to it. Down the rabbit hole I gooooo...
First, I don't know about the %age of AMGs in VCU's vs. EVMS's departments and won't be looking it up because I don't care. Here's why:
While it's true that American citizens who leave the US to do a Caribbean MD program may be weaker academically, there are many FMGs coming from countries where admission to medical school is orders of magnitude more difficult than America. For example, there is a medical school in India with a 0.06% acceptance rate. Now, to becoming licensed to practice in America, a physician must complete a residency in America as well as pass the USMLE steps. I would have a hard time believing a graduate from that Indian school is less capable than any AMG. If I saw a program that was exclusively filled with American citizen non-Big 4 Caribbean school grads, that would send up red flags. DOs and the others I spoke of definitely do not.
VCU's class size was recently increased to 200, and I don't believe there are more plans to increase in the immediate future.
I think I get what this person is trying to say, that is, some IM programs are more prestigious than some gas or rads programs. If you're trying to say that EVMS has a good match list, that's definitely true. The helpfulness of looking at match list for premed decisions is pretty dubious, though, as most people don't know what to look for other than OMG 4 IN DERMADIONCOLOGY.
It doesn't.
This I'm just going to have to ignore.
VCU was created in the 60s from a merger between the former Richmond Professional Institute and the Medical College of Virginia. Before that, there was no VCU. VCU recently (~2004) had a campaign to have people refer to the medical campus as VCU and not MCV because there was confusion in a high profile article with UVA. Now MCV exists as the name of the campus and the physician billing.
VCU, like many other med schools, has a combined BS/MD program. From the website:
"This program allows high school seniors with the appropriate grades and SAT scores to apply for admission to VCU and the School of Medicine. If the student is accepted into the Guaranteed Program, they must complete the VCU Honors Program with a GPA of 3.5 or better to be able to matriculate into the School of Medicine four years later."
Among other stipulations, they must take the MCAT and score at least a 26.
EDIT: They only need take the MCAT if they're doing the preferred (applying as a sophomore), not the guaranteed (straight out of high school) track.
Interestingly, EVMS also has joint programs with several other undergrad schools - Including Virginia Wesleyan, Christopher Newport, and ODU. Students at least at CNU do not have to take the MCAT for the early admissions agreement.
I just found that I could never find myself letting you get by with this post.
First, I don't know about the %age of AMGs in VCU's vs. EVMS's departments and won't be looking it up because I don't care. Here's why:
While it's true that American citizens who leave the US to do a Caribbean MD program may be weaker academically, there are many FMGs coming from countries where admission to medical school is orders of magnitude more difficult than America. For example, there is a medical school in India with a 0.06% acceptance rate. Now, to becoming licensed to practice in America, a physician must complete a residency in America as well as pass the USMLE steps. I would have a hard time believing a graduate from that Indian school is less capable than any AMG. If I saw a program that was exclusively filled with American citizen non-Big 4 Caribbean school grads, that would send up red flags. DOs and the others I spoke of definitely do not.
VCU's class size was recently increased to 200, and I don't believe there are more plans to increase in the immediate future.
I think I get what this person is trying to say, that is, some IM programs are more prestigious than some gas or rads programs. If you're trying to say that EVMS has a good match list, that's definitely true. The helpfulness of looking at match list for premed decisions is pretty dubious, though, as most people don't know what to look for other than OMG 4 IN DERMADIONCOLOGY.
It doesn't.
This I'm just going to have to ignore.
VCU was created in the 60s from a merger between the former Richmond Professional Institute and the Medical College of Virginia. Before that, there was no VCU. VCU recently (~2004) had a campaign to have people refer to the medical campus as VCU and not MCV because there was confusion in a high profile article with UVA. Now MCV exists as the name of the campus and the physician billing.
VCU, like many other med schools, has a combined BS/MD program. From the website:
"This program allows high school seniors with the appropriate grades and SAT scores to apply for admission to VCU and the School of Medicine. If the student is accepted into the Guaranteed Program, they must complete the VCU Honors Program with a GPA of 3.5 or better to be able to matriculate into the School of Medicine four years later."
Among other stipulations, they must take the MCAT and score at least a 26.
EDIT: They only need take the MCAT if they're doing the preferred (applying as a sophomore), not the guaranteed (straight out of high school) track.
Interestingly, EVMS also has joint programs with several other undergrad schools - Including Virginia Wesleyan, Christopher Newport, and ODU. Students at least at CNU do not have to take the MCAT for the early admissions agreement.
I just found that I could never find myself letting you get by with this post.
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Darn, homeless people in a city...I could never go to any place with that.
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Pretty obvious to me that poster is a troll - take a quick look at his post history - account is about 2 weeks old, and he does nothing but stir up **** everywhere he goes.
I don't believe he is a current applicant, but regardless, I suggest everyone ignore him.
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I can't believe I am going to get into an internet pissing match but:
Rankings- MCV is ranked higher.
Since research and peer review is the main component (70%) of the us news rankings, and since MCV blows EVMS out of the water in research and by match list it clearly has a higher regard amongst its peers, it is obvious MCV is ranked higher than EVMS. Furthermore, while the USnews rankings currently do not go beyond 60, a few years ago they did. MCV was ranked in the mid 60s then. EVMS was unranked.
As said before, I am interviewing at some of the elite programs in the country in IM. I have met 0 interviewees from EVMS on the trail, multiple from UVA and multiple from VCU. Granted N=1 but I would have expected more from EVMS were it in the same regard.
Board scores: you may have heard that EVMS' board scores were 222 with 30% getting above a 235, MCV ACTUAL scores are an average of 223.3 with 41% getting above a 230, 25% above a 240 and 10% in the 250s and 260s. This is straight from the dean and is posted online.
Residencies and departments- I see that you cherry picked some very random specialties in your rant. Let's look at US news' rankings (and all of them).
They compile data for VCU vs EVMS' departments (Sentara Norfolk General)
Endocrine- Norfolk gets a higher overall score, VCU has a better reputation score
ENT- VCU gets the higher score, neither is rated by reputation
Geriatrics- NOrfolk gets the higher score and reputation
Gyn- Norfolk gets the higher score, VCU has the higher reputation
Heart- both are ranked, Norfolk higher overall but VCU has the higher reputation again
Digest- VCU has higher score and reputation
Neuro- VCU has higher score and reputation
Cancer- VCU has higher score and reputation
Ortho- VCU has higher score and reputation
Psych- VCU has higher score and reputation
PM&R- VCU has higher score and reputation
Pulmonary- VCU has the higher score and reputation score
Urology- Norfolk has a marginal better score with 20 vs VCUs 19. Neither has a reputation score
Tallying a point for either overall score or reputation- VCU 18 EVMS' 6.
Match lists- MCV wins. Despite the larger class size (last match classes were ~170 vs ~100) MCV's match list is still much better.
MCV vs EVMS
Gas 20 vs 6
Rads 16 vs 5
Ortho 8 vs 0
Neurosurg 1 vs 0
Urology 4 vs 1
Derm 3 vs 2
Radonc 2 vs 2
ENT 1 vs 3
Now you might explain this away by saying a lot of people matched into good program in IM but since I am applying to IM and know the good program let me break it down for you. EVMS has 3 good IM matches (UVA. UNC, Pitt) VCU on the other hand had 8 (hopkins, UCLA, Pittx2, Mayo, Wake, Vandy, and oregon).
For peds- EVMS had 4 good matches- (St Christophres, Emory, Vandy and Yale). MCV had 12 (Yale, Hopkins x2, UCSF x2, UVA x2, Childrens in DC, Sinai, Inovax2 and St Christophers) The same disparity is seen when you compare the other "non-competitive" specialties.
Location and homeless people- So you saw homeless people in a park not on the MCV campus? Ok, I'll give it to you, some of Richmond is not the best. The same can be said for any city. Furthermore, most of the best program in the country are in really crappy areas- Penn, Hopkins, Emory, Columbia all come to mind.
Finally you post a post by a possible MCV student with a miniscule post count which is immediately torn down by every other MCV student on the board as untrue. She then never comes back to explain herself or why her remarks do not mirror any of the other MCV experiences. Hmmm sounds suspect.
You go on to make derogatory terms about how as an out of state student you heard about MCV's suppostedly bad reputation. Well I am from Virginia and come from 3 generations of doctors in Va so I imagine I have a better perspective on this. I can assure you the hierarchy goes UVA> MCV > EVMS. Always has, and likely always will.
\end rant
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I wish this were facebook so I could click "like" on your post.
Good work Instate, you seem to always say what I'm thinking but better than I can say it.
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