2009 MD/PhD Match

Discussion in 'Physician Scientists' started by Doctor&Geek, Mar 16, 2009.

  1. Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Hello folks,

    I'll be collecting data again on residency appointments for this year's graduating MD/PhD students.

    If you have results from your school or your intended school, please share!

    EDIT: Because a few issues have come up, I want to say a few words:

    1) I'm tracking graduates from MD/PhD programs. Students obtaining a PhD independently prior to medical school are impossible to track, and furthermore I speculate that these students have little interest in research, at least in comparison to their MD/PhD counterparts. Therefore, I've limited this match list to graduates of MD/PhD programs.

    2) Do not make any assumptions as to the quality of a program's match list based on the presence of highly competitive matches, as the reasons for choosing a specialty and location are complicated more than just name reputation. In general, beware also of statements by programs claiming that some high percent of students get their "first choice", as you can't rank programs you don't even get interviews from (actually you can, but your chances of matching are zero). About the only real negative conclusions one can make about a program is that it has excessive number of people who fail to match, or that a program consistently has graduates match in research-unfriendly specialties or at non-academic institutions.

    3) In past years I've provided sources for data to help with reliability of data. Most reliable are program webpages and other official annoucements, then contributions by e-mail or PM from students who I can verify, then contributions of anonymous students. Least reliable is "correlate", which means I take an MD/PhD program's roster and compare it to a match list with names available online. As always, corrections are appreciated, but if I have data from somewhere higher on the list - especially an official program announcement, I'm taking the more reliable source as gospel.

    Digest (7/2/09)

    42/42 MSTPs
    10 non-MSTPs

    n = 344 (no postdocs, prelims, or others)

    Top 5 Specialties
    Internal Medicine: 83
    Pediatrics: 38
    Pathology: 33
    Psychiatry: 25
    Radiation Oncology: 23

    Top 5 Locations
    Harvard: 49
    WashU: 18
    Penn: 18
    UCSF: 17
    Stanford: 15

    Nonmatchers
    Consulting - 4
    Deferred - 3
    Government - 1
    Industry - 1
    Postdoc - 14
    Prelim Only - 7
    Other - 1

    Previous match results threads:

    2008: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=503857
    2007: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=380918
    2006: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=265950
    2005: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=186611
    2004: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=112378
     
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    #1 Doctor&Geek, Mar 16, 2009
    Last edited: Jul 2, 2009
  2. gstrub

    gstrub Member
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    I've got some:

    VCU/MCV:
    RADS
    Path
    IM Research fast track
     
    #2 gstrub, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  3. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    Curious how you can be a dumb ass and a bigger dumb ass and not match. I always hear generic crap like "personality issues" that I never really believe.

    Helping someone I care about to scramble right now :( Not an MD/PhD though.
     
  4. tiamat360

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    EDIT: nvm. :p
     
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    #4 tiamat360, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2009
  5. gstrub

    gstrub Member
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    #5 gstrub, Mar 17, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  6. OP
    OP
    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Learn a valuable lesson from these examples, folks.
     
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  7. RapplixGmed

    RapplixGmed Looking for the Ether
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    As an incoming MD/PhD student, hearing horror stories like this is extra scary. :scared:
     
  8. Sulfinator

    Sulfinator Pathology
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    I'm not really sure what happened to gstrub, aside from the fact he didn't match. Was he shooting for RadOnc? Did he apply for programs across multiple speciaties? What exactly was the situation?
     
  9. tiamat360

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    That post also confused me at first. I believe gstrub was listing the mudphuds in his program who entered the match this year; one went to radiology, one went to path, one went to an IM research residency, and two didn't match.
     
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  10. gstrub

    gstrub Member
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    :thumbup:
     
  11. Sulfinator

    Sulfinator Pathology
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    Thanks for the clarification! That makes much more sense.

    Pretty amazing. I have never known any MD/PhD student that didn't match. I expect that, as gstrub said, these must individuals must have been in very exceptional situations.
     
  12. gstrub

    gstrub Member
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    So to update:
    VCU/MCV
    PITT Research Fast Track IM
    DUKE Path
    Penn RADS
     
  13. gbwillner

    gbwillner Pastafarian
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    I rotated back in in April of the third year and was OK... of course I had 6 months of clinics going into the PhD.
    The big issue for #1 is not having a 1st author pub. How the crap do you finish a PhD without publishing? Seriously. Not only do you probably not deserve the PhD, but you better not plan on a academic career because your CV won't land you any gigs.

    Not sure if #2 really matters, unless you are such an arse everyone talks about you behind your back. I doubt PDs from different departments at the same institution talk to or even know each other. I'm sure 30% of all medical students do this.
     
  14. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    wtf?! I already did 6 months of third year and my program told me I HAD TO go back the last week of October. I still can't figure this out.
     
  15. JHopRevisit

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    Why? As you saw above, the circumstances were very unique. A huge percentage of these situations are due to people choosing competitive specialties and not going about it in an intelligent way. Of course, some people don't match because life got in the way and things got complicated, but I wouldn't start freaking out about it first year.
     
  16. BozoSparky

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    come on, graduate school can be dependent on lots of things...particularly your PI, the project you are on, etc...it's not always like medical school where hard work = payoff. yes, being a slacker can definitely be the cause, but it's not the only possibility.
     
  17. gstrub

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    #17 gstrub, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2009
  18. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    UAB (source: was there)
    Child Neurology - Vanderbilt
    Internal Medicine - Vanderbilt
    Pediatrics - Columbia
    Pediatrics - Cincinnati
    Pediatrics - UAB
    Radiation Oncology - UAB

    Tri-I (source: website)
    Dermatology - Stanford
    Dermatology - Johns Hopkins
    Internal Medicine - Penn
    Pathology - Brigham
    Pathology - Brigham
    Radiation Oncology - Cornell
    Psychiatry - UCDavis
    Radiology - UCSD
    Radiology - Wayne State
    Surgery - NYMC
    Postdoc
    Postdoc
    Consulting

    UNC (source: correlate)
    Emergency Medicine - Mayo
    Internal Medicine - MGH
    OB/GYN - Duke
    Pathology - Johns Hopkins
    Pediatrics - UConn
    Pediatrics - MCV
    Radiology - UAB
    Vascular Surgery - Stanford
    Prelim Only

    WashU (source: website)
    Anesthesiology - Duke
    Dermatology - WashU
    Internal Medicine - Brigham
    Internal Medicine - MGH
    Internal Medicine - Penn
    Internal Medicine - Penn
    Internal Medicine - WashU
    Neurology - WashU
    Ophthalmology - Harvard/MEEI
    Pathology - U of Washington
    Pathology - WashU
    Pediatrics - Stanford
    Psychiatry - Columbia
    Psychiatry - WashU
    Radiation Oncology - WashU
    Consulting
     
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    #18 Doctor&Geek, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  19. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Moral: don't be stupid and leave without at least one publication.

    Moral: don't be stupid and apply only Plastic freaking Surgery.

    In the past 5 years, only 7 out 1413 MD/PhD students have been lucky enough to obtain an integrated plastics position. Percentage wise, that's not any better than the straight MD population.
     
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  20. mercaptovizadeh

    mercaptovizadeh ἀλώπηξ
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    I have to say that the Tri-I matchlist is quite unimpressive. Tri-I is supposed to be one of the very best MSTPs in the county. Why are people matching to places like Wayne State, UCDavis, NYMC? And it's questionable as to whether the two postdocs were voluntary or a result of not matching.

    Apparently the PhD (even from prestigious institutions like Cornell and Rockefeller) is not quite the boost in the residency application that was once thought. Maybe it really IS all about Step 1 and 3rd year clerkships...

    I also think it's funny that there's just one IM, one path, and no peds or neuro people on that list.
     
  21. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    I know you, and you know better than to base this judgment on one year's worth of data.
     
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  22. Dr.Whoever

    Dr.Whoever New Member
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    There are two more UAB MD/PhDs:
    peds-Columbia U (NY,NY)
    IM-unsure
     
  23. Gfunk6

    Gfunk6 And to think . . . I hesitated
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    I believe IM=Vanderbilt ABIM fast-track
     
  24. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Didn't hear their names, and I thought something was up. I'll confirm when I get a hard copy.

    EDIT: Also wasn't that genetics, not pediatrics?

    EDIT 2: confirmed.
     
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    #24 Doctor&Geek, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  25. BNSN

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    I agree that the Cornell list is not as impressive as I would have thought, but I am also willing to give leeway and assume that some impressive people are matching into less than stellar places to be closer to family and other personal reasons.

    I know of one graduating MD/PhDer from UAB this year who could have matched basically anywhere but ranked a good, but not top, place as his first choice for personal reasons.

    I have been looking at match lists from various schools, and it seems like the PhD does confer some meaningful advantage. Last year's UAB match list was 1 peds at CHOP and 2 Derms/1 path at Michigan. Look at VCU/MCV's list -- Penn, Pitt, and Duke. Regular MD applicants out of good, but not top, schools like UAB and VCU/MCV don't regularly match at schools like that.

    D&G, what are your thoughts on the benefits of a PhD in the matching process? Do MD/PhD's out of a given schools regularly match better than MD's out of that same school?

    Edit: And, oh, look at D&G's data: 263 MD/PhD's matched at Harvard hospitals over the past 5 years of a total of 1611 graduates. That is incredible!
     
    #25 BNSN, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  26. sluox

    Physician 10+ Year Member

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    #26 sluox, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  27. PerpetualPupil

    PerpetualPupil Git'r'Done
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    Looking at the big picture here, does it really matter if you match with a "good/great" program vs. a "top" program?

    For example: you want to do IM, maybe a sub-specialty down the road. Would you be shortselling your career (i.e. post-residency life) if you aim to match with a "good" IM program for personal reasons (quality of life, avoiding notoriously hostile environments) versus gunning for one of the top programs? Are you that better off by being with Hopkins, MGH?

    I mean, everyone wants to work hard and do the best they can, but is it worth running oneself into the ground in an attempt to match with one of the best, if the long-term yield between solid programs and the top dogs is only marginal?
     
  28. QofQuimica

    QofQuimica Seriously, dude, I think you're overreacting....
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    Agree. There are a lot of circumstances that are totally out of your control no matter how hard you worked. I stayed on a full month after I graduated to tie up loose ends and write manuscripts. So far, only one has been published, and I graduated with my PhD three years ago. Why? Well, my PI, as awesome as he is in almost every other way, is a fully tenured prof who does not exactly have a fire lit under his rear to publish. He kept telling me he'd submit the first manuscript soon, soon, soon. Who knows if the rest of my PhD work will ever get published? By now I've pretty much given it up as a lost cause, and I'm going to do a post doc before applying to residency. This time I'm making sure it's with someone who publishes prolifically. :rolleyes:
     
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  29. fantasty

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    Iowa (email)

    Child Neurology - Harvard Mass General;
    Pediatrics - UCSD
    Emergency Medicine - UIHC
    Internal Medicine - Duke U
    Neurology - Columbia U/New York Presbyterian
    Neurology - UCSF

    Pediatrics - U of Pittsburgh
    Pediatrics - Vanderbilt U
    Pediatrics - Vanderbilt U
    Pediatrics - Washington U/St. Louis Children's
    Psychiatry - Brown U
    Psychiatry - UCLA Semel Institute for Neurosciences
    Radiology - U of Massachusetts

     
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  30. CCLCMer

    CCLCMer CCLCM Alum c/o 2011
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    This is not MD/PhD, but I know some of you applied to CCLCM, so I thought I'd post our first ever match list for anyone who is interested. :)

    Anesthesiology
    Cleveland Clinic

    Dermatology
    Yale

    Emergency Medicine
    Cincinnati

    General Surgery
    Wash U
    Brown

    Int Medicine
    Duke
    Beth Israel
    Michigan
    UNC
    Yale
    Stanford
    Cornell
    Vanderbilt

    Neurosurgery
    Emory
    George Washington

    Ob/Gyn
    Beth Israel
    Hawaii

    Opthalmology
    Cleveland Clinic
    UCSD

    Orthopedics
    Hospital for Special Surgery
    UCSF
    Utah

    Pathlogy
    Mass General

    Pediatrics
    CHOP
    Duke

    Rad Onc
    Rochester

    Radiology
    UPENN

    Urology
    Cleveland Clinic
    Wake Forest
     
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  31. Myempire1

    Myempire1 Junior Member
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    UT Southwestern Match:

    Santa Clara Valley Med Center, CA (prelim); UCLA in Ophthalmology
    Wash U/Barnes in Neurosurgery
    Wash U/Barnes in Medicine
    Wash U/Barnes in Medicine
    Wash U/Barnes in Medicine
    JHU in Medicine
    Boston Children's in Pediatrics
    UTSW/CMC in Pediatrics
    UTSW/CMC in Pediatrics
    UTSW in Psychiatry
    U Washington in Anatomic Pathology
    UCSD in Medicine/Investigator Path
    Postdoc- Cal Tech
     
  32. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Pwn.
     
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  33. OP
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    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Virginia (source: website)
    Child Neurology - CHOP
    Internal Medicine - Johns Hopkins
    Internal Medicine - Penn
    Ophthalmology - Iowa
    Pediatrics - Children's Boston
    Radiology - Harbor-UCLA
    Psychiatry - GWU
    Surgery - Maryland
    Postdoc
    Postdoc

    Pitt (source: website)
    Dermatology - MGH
    Dermatology - Pitt
    Emergency Medicine - Brigham
    Internal Medicine - Pitt
    Neurology - MGH
    Psychiatry - U of Washington
    Surgery - Allegheny General
    Radiation Oncology - Colorado
    Radiology - Pitt

    NYU (source: website)
    Anesthesiology - Brigham
    Dermatology - Cornell
    Dermatology - UCSF
    Internal Medicine - BU
    Internal Medicine - Mt. Sinai
    Pediatrics - Cornell
    Radiation Oncology - UCSF
    Radiation Oncology - Harvard
    Postdoc

    Albert Einstein (source: website)
    Anesthesiology - Stanford
    Dermatology - NYU
    Internal Medicine - Cornell
    Internal Medicine - Mt. Sinai
    Internal Medicine - Mt. Sinai
    Internal Medicine - MGH
    OB/GYN - UCSF
    Pathology - Cornell
    Pediatrics - Columbia
    Pediatrics - Columbia
    Pediatrics - CNMC
    Psychiatry - Cornell
    Psychiatry - Mt. Sinai
     
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    #33 Doctor&Geek, Mar 19, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2009
  34. js223

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    in regard to MD/PhD 2009 match, any additional info from schools not posted yet?
     
  35. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    :laugh: Give it a few days.

    UPenn (source: email from office)

    Medicine - UCSF
    Medicine - Yale
    Medicine - Cornell
    Neurology - Penn
    Neurology - UCSF
    Ob-Gyn (Prelim) - Temple
    Pathology - Penn
    Pathology - Harvard (Brigham & Women's)
    Pediatrics - Harvard (Boston Children's)
    Psychiatry - Penn
    Psychiatry - Penn
    Radiation Oncology - U Washington
    Surgery (Prelim) - Penn
     
    #35 Neuronix, Mar 20, 2009
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  36. fastrandstrongr

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    Internal Medicine, Johns Hopkins
    Internal Medicine, Washington University St. Louis
    Internal Medicine, Washington University St. Louis
    Internal Medicine, Washington University St. Louis
    Internal Medicine/Investigator Path, Univ. California San Diego
    Pediatrics, Harvard
    Pediatrics, UT Southwestern
    Pediatrics, UT Southwestern
    Ophthalmology, UCLA
    Neurosurgery, Washington University St. Louis
    Pathology, U Washington
    Psychiatry, UT Southwestern
     
  37. JHopRevisit

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    This is preliminary, a friend of mine forwarded it to me but I'll also check with our office cause I think its missing a name or two:
    Johns Hopkins:
    U Michigan Hosps-Ann Arbor - Pediatrics
    NYP Hosp-Weill Cornell Med Ctr - Obstetrics-Gynecology
    Johns Hopkins Hosp - Radiation Oncology
    U Michigan Hosps-Ann Arbor - Pathology
    Johns Hopkins Hosp - Anesthesiology
    Childrens Hosp Boston - Pediatrics
    Johns Hopkins Hosp - Internal Medicine
    Johns Hopkins Hosp - Pathology
     
  38. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    aw, I liked your original post so much better JHop :p Feel free to average all the data together once you have it to come up with an average graduation time for this cohort. I don't have the data on my school's match list so I can't even speculate.

    In another note, the match lists from this year just look odd to me. A high number of prelims and post-docs and some very unusual failure to matches (though some programs would report these as post-docs so you never really know how many there are!)... I wonder if this is an off year? Radiology applications shot up about 200 for example, going from an AMG fill rate in the mid to high-90s to 85%. :scared:
     
  39. JHopRevisit

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    Aw, so you saw? ;) I decided I didn't have the energy to get into it right now, and honestly, I've stopped caring. I think I'll spare us all the effort, Dr. Nix. :laugh:
     
  40. Neuronix

    Neuronix Total nerd
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    You'll care again by 6th year, I guarantee it :D
     
  41. OP
    OP
    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
    Physician PhD Lifetime Donor Verified Account 10+ Year Member

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    UTHouston (source: correlate)
    Ophthalmology - Yale
    Surgery - UAB

    Wisconsin (source: website)
    Family Medicine - Michigan
    Internal Medicine - VCU
    Neurology - Johns Hopkins
    Pathology - Penn
    Pathology - U of Washington
    Pathology - Michigan
    Pediatrics - UTMemphis
    Psychiatry - Wisconsin
    Radiology - Stanford
    Surgery - Wisconsin
    Position with FDA

    MCG (source: website)
    Emergency Medicine - MSU/Sparrow
    Neurosurgery - Wake Forest

    Baylor (source: PM)
    Internal Medicine - Columbia
    Internal Medicine - Duke
    Neurosurgery - Baylor
    Neurosurgery - Florida
    Plastic Surgery - WashU
    Radiology - Henry Ford
    Radiation Oncology - MDAnderson
    Radiation Oncology - MDAnderson
    Prelim - Pitt

    UIUC (source: e-mail)
    Child Neurology - Penn
    Dermatology - Indiana
    Emergency Medicine - Brigham
    Internal Medicine - OHSU
    Neurosurgery - Brown
    OB/GYN - UCSF
    Pediatrics - Northwestern
    Radiology - UCSF
    Surgery - UCDavis
     
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    #41 Doctor&Geek, Mar 20, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2009
  42. JHopRevisit

    7+ Year Member

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    Oh, I'll be long graduated and three years into my residency by then. My PhD is in the physics dept: time travel.

    The secret to a successful MD-PhD.
     
  43. ACornellMudPhud

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    Wow, I didn't realize there would be so much hate going around on a generally happy day.... Obviously you can tell from my screen name that I am one of the Cornell MDPhD grads this year. I felt compelled to write in response to this thread to set the record straight.

    First of all, the list has an omission. There are 2 (not 1) Tri-I students going to BWH for path. The 2 people doing post-docs did indeed select this voluntarily, i.e. they were never in the match in the first place. As for the rest, how can you say that this list is not impressive???

    -Derm at JHU and Stanford - amazing!
    -2 x path at BWH - phenomenal!
    -Rads at UCSD - equally impressive!
    -Medicine at PENN - sweet!
    -Rad Onc at Cornell - awesome!
    (BTW: most of these matches were first choice)
    -consulting at McKinsey - wow!
    -as for the others (Psych at UC-Davis, Rads at Wayne State, and Surg at Monte - note: another error, this student is not going to NYMC), at least 2 out of 3 ranked these first for both personal and professional reasons. I don't know the details of the other.

    There are always year-to-year variations in chosen specialties. Why is 1 person in medicine and 2 people in path not enough for you? Why do you insist that there should be people in neuro and peds? We are not talking about statistically robust numbers here. Also, every field (not just med, peds, neuro, and path) needs physician-scientists. For example, one of the main reasons I chose my specialty is because I feel there is a need for more scientists (MD-PhDs) in the field.

    One thing you are correct about it that the TRI-I program (Cornell/Rockefeller/Sloan Kettering) IS one of the very best MD-PhD/MSTP programs in the country. I am proud to be at this program! We have an amazing bunch of students, faculty, and the combined resources of the 3 institutions can only be matched by a very small number of other medical centers. We do superbly in the match every year and this year is no exception.

    On top of all of this, we have the best program director (past president of the md-phd program directors association) and administration who, along with our students, make our program so much more than the sum of its parts.

    Anyone questioning this is not only wrong, but out of line.
     
  44. ACornellMudPhud

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    woops, i forgot one other thing:

    there are in fact 2 students from Tri-I who matched in neuro this year (they both graduated last year and took a 1 year post doc for personal reasons, then went into the match this year).

    One is staying at Cornell and the other I'm not sure...
     
  45. Vader

    Vader Dark Lord of the Sith
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    ucla :)
     
  46. OP
    OP
    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    Error corrected.

    No. Your website says this:

    And finally, please take a chill pill. Your rant sounds like more like insecurity than righteous criticism.
     
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  47. OP
    OP
    Doctor&Geek

    Doctor&Geek 25 > 5 / 15 < 8
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    This may and well be true, but if your website provides match day appointments, your website should include these non-senior matches - I consider these more official and reliable than anonymous posters.
     
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  48. ACornellMudPhud

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    You suggest that I take a chill pill? Pot, kettle, black....

    I am by no means insecure. I love my program and simply want to set the record straight since Mercapto had incorrectly judged our match results, partially based on some incorrect information (2, not 1 path at Brigham), partially based on some omitted information (non-senior matches), and partially based on false allegations (implying that people who are going straight to post-docs didn't match). You ask that I provide "righteous criticism" -- I feel that my tone was appropriate considering the non-sense that Mercapto wrote.
     
  49. Ariodant

    Ariodant Fiat Lux
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    I think DG probably meant that if there's discrepancy between the data provided here by SNDers and that posted on the school website, she will use the official data from school to compile the matchlist.

    Being enthusiastic about your school is good, just don't get too defensive.
     
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  50. mercaptovizadeh

    mercaptovizadeh ἀλώπηξ
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    OK, I will admit that my inferences weren't exactly scientific, based on just one year and an incomplete match list.

    And I didn't mean to put down Cornell. I'm not questioning Tri-I's quality at all. I was simply pointing out the fact that even a place as renowned as Tri-I had some - how shall I put this - less than stellar matches. Which indicates to me that a prestigious medical school and a PhD is clearly not enough for some residencies. And I find that worrisome. No need to take this so personally as if I'm bashing Tri-I - I'm just positing certain questions as to what exactly residencies want.
     

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