As I have said, for those graduates without a red flag from my school, the rate for securing ACGME residency positions is likely over 95-99%. For the entire class, including those with Red flags, the rate of securing ACGME spots is likely > 88%. I dont have anything more concret to give you, this is my best approximation, but this really isn't too far off from the actual number.
The big take away point is that for someone who wants an ACGME residency, and is confident that they can graduate without any Red flags, they have a virtural sure thing of matching into an ACGME residency if they attend and graduate from the school that I attended.
The 47% rate that members are floating around here simply is not an accurate number.
and for those wanting to specialize......the take home point is that the best way to have a good chance at specializing is to go to an LCME U.S. MD program. Alternative programs, such as DO, U.S. IMG, etc are always going to be much more of a crap shoot. Sure, DOs will say they have a better shot, but there have been many IMG MDs who also landed great specialties too, so someone interested in specializing is much much better off using their precious brain energy to devote to rocking the MCAT vs. trying to figure out if DO or IMG MD offers the better probability of getting a specialty.
This is going to be a LONG post, and I will be updating my first post with much of the data I am about to include. I would really appreciate (it took me awhile to write this) EVERYONE considering between DO schools or Caribbean schools to read this post in its entirety and to view the statistics as objectively as possible.
This debate is about which pathway (Caribbean or DO) offers you a better chance at landing a residency, and becoming a board certified physician.
First, we will start with all DO schools vs all Caribbean Schools (US-IMG'S in some of these stats). Then, we will take a look at AUC (Upper level Caribbean) vs a specific DO school (DMU, Upper Level DO)
All DO vs Caribbean
I have taken the time to compile data directly from the
NRMP and from the
AOA match
This data lists how many DO's matched in both the ACGME and the AOA match and compares it to Caribbean grads who matched ACGME. (Caribbean grads cannot participate in the AOA match)
I have bolded which of the two options has matched more students.
Specialty
PGY-1 Positions
Anesthesiology
D.O 103
U.S IMG 23
Dermatology
D.O 26
U.S IMG 0
Emergency Medicine
D.O 375
U.S IMG 109
Emergency Med/Family Med
D.O 10
U.S IMG 1
Family Medicine
D.O 656
U.S IMG 439
Internal Medicine (Categorical)
D.O 609
U.S IMG 460
Neurological Surgery
D.O 12
U.S IMG 3
Neurology
D.O 31
U.S IMG 20
Obstetrics-Gynecology
D.O 173
U.S IMG 76
Orthopedic Surgery
D.O 87
U.S IMG 3
Otolaryngology
D.O 11
U.S IMG 1
Pathology
D.O 31
U.S IMG 31
Pediatrics
D.O 251
U.S IMG 147
Physical Medicine & Rehab
D.O 18
U.S IMG 9
Plastic Surgery (Integrated)
D.O 11
U.S IMG 0
Psychiatry (Categorical)
D.O 132
U.S IMG 129
Radiology-Diagnostic
D.O 32
U.S IMG 4
Surgery (Categorical)
D.O 122
U.S IMG 51
Surgery-Preliminary (PGY-1 Only)
D.O 19
U.S IMG 81
Transitional (PGY-1 Only)
D.O 267
U.S IMG 33
Urology
D.O 19
U.S IMG 0
There are more D.O's the U.S IMG's in 19 of 21 specialties, and 1 specialty had the same amount. This does not take into account the attrition rates for either the Caribbean or DO schools. The Caribbean has a notoriously high attrition rate, but we'll get back to that later.
Here is some more data. This is ONLY from the MD match, there were another 1600 DO's that matched in the AOA match.
Active Applicants
DO = 2,045
US IMG = 3,695
Matched
DO = 1,444
US IMG = 1,749
Unmatched
DO = 601
US IMG = 1,946
Matching %
DO = 70%
US IMG = 47%
Of the US IMG's that made it through medical school,
1,946 of them didn't even match. This does not even take into consideration how many Caribbean grads didn't make it through the curriculum.
That data along with consideration of attrition rates, and my previous posts in the thread about Dual Certified AOA residencies, should put to rest ANY discussion of DO vs Caribbean MD for residency placement. If you would rather have the MD initials, then go for it. Just take into consideration the facts listed above.
Now, solely for Dr. Frauds sake, we can discuss the matter of a top Caribbean vs a top DO.
This is Dr. Frauds argument
As I have said, for those graduates without a red flag from my school, the rate for securing ACGME residency positions is likely over 95-99%. For the entire class, including those with Red flags, the rate of securing ACGME spots is likely > 88%. I dont have anything more concret to give you, this is my best approximation, but this really isn't too far off from the actual number.
Dr. Fraud believes that graduates from his school (AUC), who graduate "without a red flag" have match rates of 95%-99%.
His sole shred of evidence for this statistic, is that he attends there currently.
My evidence is listed below
American University of the Caribbean 2010 Match Data
Anesthesiology - 1
Emergency Medicine - 11
Family Practice - 46
General Surgery - 4
Internal Medicine - 59
Neurology - 3
OB/GYN - 12
Pathology - 1
Pediatrics - 16
Prelim Medicine - 9
Prelim Surgery - 6
Psychiatry Residency - 12
Radiology - 2
Traditional Year - 5
Total 187
~340 students start a year. They have three start dates, January, May, and September. I am trying to find concrete evidence showing their actual enrollment numbers, but they virtually impossible to find.
55% Match
Roughly 340 students start each year at AUC, at different times of the year (Either January, May, September). AUC refuses to list class sizes on their website. My investigations at ValueMD show that the number is actually much closer to 380, but I will lowball the number to give Dr. Fraud the benefit of the doubt.
Of the 340 students that start the program each year, only ~187 match. ~153 students either: A) Drop out in debt or B) Did not match and will have reapply / strengthen their applications with more coursework (additional degrees) or additional research.
Dr. Fraud has mentioned that the students who enter AUC who are "confident that they will graduate from their respective program" will match without a problem "95%-99%" of the time. According to this logic the 153 students that didn't make it must have not been confident that they would graduate the program. Do you honestly believe almost half the class that started medical school at AUC were not confident, and felt that they probably weren't going to make it? This IS AUC's data. I am not playing or manipulating the numbers. Their match list is from their site (it's cited) and it was updated to include students who pre-matched / found residencies through another method. You must also take into consideration that many students do NOT match on their first try going through the Caribbean (evidenced by the fact that 1,946 didn't match this year). This means it's impossible to tell how many of the 187 AUC matching students
actually matched on their first try.
The above example is why attrition rates are extremely important, and SHOULD be factored into you decision of attending DO or Caribbean MD.
Now to compare AUC's data with a DO school
DMU-COM Class of 2010
Anesthesiology - 9
Emergency Medicine - 26
Family Medicine - 43
Internal Medicine - 30
Medicine-Preliminary - 6
Neurology - 4
Neuromusculoskeletal Medicine - OMT 1
Obstetrics - Gynecology - 14
Ophthalmology - 4
Otolaryngology - 1
Pathology -3
Pediatrics -16
Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - 10
Psychiatry - 9
Radiology - Diagnostic - 3
Surgery - General - 6
Surgery - Neurological - 1
Surgery - Orthopaedic - 6
Surgery - Otolaryn & Facial Plastic - 2
Traditional Rotating Internship - 7
Total Students - 201
Started with ~212
95% Match
One start date.
95% of the students that started the program finished. In my opinion their match list is much more impressive as well (This is up to your personal evaluation, but I think most would agree with me). 2 Plastics, 6 Ortho's, 4 Optha, and 1 Oto, is pretty impressive. AUC had 0 matches in all four of those fields.
Both schools can lead you down the pathway of becoming a board certified physician. With either path, you are going to have to do a ton of work. But, and for the last time, if you want to match in the United States, and hope to land in a competitve residency, in a competitve location, you should opt for a DO school over a Caribbean school. This is my
opinion, but I did the best I could to use facts to support the argument. Choose wisely.
A note to Dr. Fraud-
As I said previously, I appreciate the fact that you show a different perspective to the forum. All I ask is you not quote 1 or 2 sentences from this post and create a baseless argument, that really is not about what this discussion is concerned with. If you decide to comment please construct a well thought out argument, and try and cite as much information as possible. This would make this thread far more constructive, and would really benefit future pre-meds.
