2011 rank these schools thread

[golfman]

I thought I'd attempt to start a thread where anybody could come and ask about a few different programs and what other people think is the best one, or worst, etc... This thread may just die out, but I've seen several threads (Wake Forest vs. Pitt, Wake Forest vs. UAB, etc...), and I thought we could consolidate those threads into one.

I'll start. Are these programs in the same ballpark? Or are some clearly better/worse than the others?

UCSD, CPMC, UAB, UC Davis, Gainesville, Minnesota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Cleveland Clinic, U. Washington, Ohio State.

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[TheEyeCutter]

what are you looking for? Best place for fellowship placement? For a future in academics? Best clinical training? Each category has its own ranking imo.

 

[golfman]

what are you looking for? Best place for fellowship placement? For a future in academics? Best clinical training? Each category has its own ranking imo.

Good call. I want somewhere that had great clinical training and surgical numbers but also helps with fellowship placement. Not too concerned with future in academics, I just want to be great clinically and do a fellowship.

 

[VikingFavre]

I thought I'd attempt to start a thread where anybody could come and ask about a few different programs and what other people think is the best one, or worst, etc... This thread may just die out, but I've seen several threads (Wake Forest vs. Pitt, Wake Forest vs. UAB, etc...), and I thought we could consolidate those threads into one.

I'll start. Are these programs in the same ballpark? Or are some clearly better/worse than the others?

UCSD, CPMC, UAB, UC Davis, Gainesville, Minnesota, Wisconsin, West Virginia, Cleveland Clinic, U. Washington, Ohio State.

I don't know all the schools as well but based on what you said below I would put in votes for UAB, Cleveland Clinic, UWash, and UF in that order.

 

[tm12]

I don't know all the schools as well but based on what you said below I would put in votes for UAB, Cleveland Clinic, UWash, and UF in that order.

I've seen several threads strongly in favor of UAB. Is it that great of a program? I thought UC Davis and Ohio were much better.

 

[niveknat]

I've seen several threads strongly in favor of UAB. Is it that great of a program? I thought UC Davis and Ohio were much better.

UCSD is a great program. High and diverse clinical volume, top notch faculty, and lots of surgical numbers. You can do pretty much whatever you want graduating from this place, in my opinion.

 

[TheLesPaul]

How does U Wash compare? I know they're baller in other fields, but it's difficult finding info on their ophtho program...

 

[Visionary]

I've seen several threads strongly in favor of UAB. Is it that great of a program? I thought UC Davis and Ohio were much better.

I'll claim ignorance on UC Davis. Ohio State is definitely a good program, but I wouldn't say it's better than UAB. The thing about UAB that sets it apart is the amount of pathology and the dedicated eye ER, from which you take in-house call. There just aren't many programs like that. I know several folks who trained there, and it's a great program.

 

[Visionary]

How does U Wash compare? I know they're baller in other fields, but it's difficult finding info on their ophtho program...

U Wash is a terrific medical center. That said, the ophthalmology department is currently in the rebuilding process. It has lots of potential, and I think Russ Van Gelder is a great guy to have at the helm.

 

[123ophtho]

What about Utah vs. Cleveland Clinic?

 

[Visionary]

What about Utah vs. Cleveland Clinic?

Both good programs. Moran is probably more clinical, whereas Cole is more research/academic.

 

[speyeder]

What about Utah vs. Cleveland Clinic?

I would go with Utah. I agree with Visionary's assessment. Cleveland Clinic gets a slight edge in academics/research but Utah gets a huge edge in clinical and surgical training. Utah is probably top 5 in the nation in resident surgical volume.

 

[golfman]

What about Utah vs. Cleveland Clinic?

Agree with what has been said above. I would give the edge to Utah. There are still lots of research opportunities at Utah, although probably not as many as Cleveland Clinic.

 

[golfman]

How about Vanderbilt vs. U. Tennessee vs. Kentucky? Any thoughts there?

 

[TheEyeCutter]

How about Vanderbilt vs. U. Tennessee vs. Kentucky? Any thoughts there?

I would rank those programs in that exact order. Vanderbilt and Tennessee both very good programs. Dont know much about Kentucky.

 

[Frostdude]

Any opinions on University of Florida (Gainesville) vs. University of Virginia?

 

[jd123]

Any thoughts on the Univ. of Minnesota-Minneapolis program?

 

[speyeder]

How about Vanderbilt vs. U. Tennessee vs. Kentucky? Any thoughts there?

Which Kentucky?

 

[speyeder]

Any opinions on University of Florida (Gainesville) vs. University of Virginia?

Definitely Florida

 

[golfman]

Which Kentucky?

University of Kentucky

 

[speyeder]

How about Vanderbilt vs. U. Tennessee vs. Kentucky? Any thoughts there?

Academics/reputation: Vanderbilt

Surgical training: Kentucky (I'm referring to Lexington. I am not familiar with Louisville)

Tennessee is probably somewhere in the middle.

 

[golfman]

Academics/reputation: Vanderbilt

Surgical training: Kentucky (I'm referring to Lexington. I am not familiar with Louisville)

Tennessee is probably somewhere in the middle.

Cool. Thanks!

 

[Visionary]

How about Vanderbilt vs. U. Tennessee vs. Kentucky? Any thoughts there?

I'll agree with some of the other posters on these.

Vandy has a strong, well-connected chairman in Paul Sternberg. Good research opportunities with solid clinical training.

UT, being in Memphis, has a lot of trauma exposure. When I interviewed there (several years ago), the main resident gripe was that call was extremely busy. I hear the surgical volume is great, especially if you're interested in plastics.

UK is a great surgical program with fair research opportunities. Andy Pearson is a young, energetic chairman.

 

[Visionary]

Any thoughts on the Univ. of Minnesota-Minneapolis program?

Don't have any first-hand knowledge. Just got a new chairman, Erik van Kuijk. Sounds like a good guy. Big department, so volume should be good. However, with changes in leadership, you always have some unknowns.

 

[eyeman84]

Thanks for all these great thoughts! Any thoughts on UIC vs. Baylor vs. UTSW?

 

[VikingFavre]

Thanks for all these great thoughts! Any thoughts on UIC vs. Baylor vs. UTSW?

Slightly biased but IMO Baylor is one of the 10 best programs for training residents out there. UIC and UTSW are just below that tier. UIC seemed more friendly and UTSW more clinically challenging and rewarding.

 

[junkemail86]

Thanks for all these great thoughts! Any thoughts on UIC vs. Baylor vs. UTSW?

UIC is a program on the rise. Dr. Azar has made all of the correct moves in building its reputation. If you look at the other SDN threads and talk to knowledgeable attendings about fellowship, UIC will be mentioned as a top tier fellowship in nearly every field (one of the best cornea fellowships out there; ASOPRS plastics; retina made even stronger by adding Drs. Bill Mieler and Jennifer Lim; the former chief of pedi ophtho from MEEI, Dr. Nathalie Azar, is the current chief of peds, etc.). If you are set on comprehensive ophthalmology, UTSW sounds like it has impressive volume. But, if you are hoping for a strong academic setting for residency with outstanding fellowship matches and enough training to feel comfortable going into general, I personally favor UIC. The 2010 UIC match list for fellowship was superb: Michigan plastics, UIC plastics, Columbia retina, WashU retina, UIC cornea, general x 2.

 

[123ophtho]

What about Northwestern? Their website doesn't reveal much...

 

[junkemail86]

What about Northwestern? Their website doesn't reveal much...

I liked Northwestern. Their hospital is amazing. Their eye clinic is a classy facility in the nicest part of Chicago (residents pay $300/month for parking). It's a medium size program (4/yr) and the residents seemed pretty happy. Dr. Volpe is the new chairman, who built his reputation on rebuilding UPenn's residency, so he's obviously interested in resident education. It seems that they stressed surgical simulators a lot, likely covering for a somewhat low surgical volume. The department doesn't really have any big wigs except for the ex-chair Dr. Jampol. They don't have many fellows, but their retina fellowship is well-regarded. They have a good fellowship match history. I would consider the program a solid upper 2nd tier.

 

[TheLesPaul]

(residents pay $300/month for parking)

 

[TheEyeCutter]

Thanks for all these great thoughts! Any thoughts on UIC vs. Baylor vs. UTSW?

UIC, Baylor, UTSW in that order for me.

 

[ophthokid]

Anyone have insight into U Michigan, Henry Ford, and William Beaumont?

 

[VikingFavre]

Anyone have insight into U Michigan, Henry Ford, and William Beaumont?

Michigan is one of the best programs in the country. Tremendous new facilities, strong but down-to-earth faculty, great location, and very kind to their residents.

 

[golfman]

How about Cincinatti vs. Kentucky vs. Nebraska vs. Texas Tech West Virginia? Any thoughts on how those (as many as you know) relate to each other?

 

[usernamepasswor]

Thoughts on Geisinger (Danville, PA) vs. University of South Carolina (Columbia)? I don't know a lot about either program.

And how about Kansas vs. UVA?

Thanks!!

 

[speyeder]

Thanks for all these great thoughts! Any thoughts on UIC vs. Baylor vs. UTSW?

I would choose Baylor out of the bunch but all 3 are good programs. UIC is the most academic, while Baylor & UTSW are known more for their hands-on training. Of the group I think Baylor has the best combination of clinical & surgical volume while having enough name recognition to make you competitive for any fellowship.

 

[Myoclonic Jerk]

Anyone know about NY programs? Since there are so many, I know there is a variance among them. Like NYU v Cornell v Bronx Leb..... Thanks!

 

[UAmeddan]

Any thoughts on the Univ. of Minnesota-Minneapolis program?

I'd like to echo this question. I know someone responded above, but without first-hand knowledge. Is there anyone out there with first-hand knowledge, who has recent experience at the program (ie, someone who interviewed there last year, or a current/previous U Minn resident)? There is little-to-no info in the Ophtho prog compendium about U Minn, and the U Minn Ophtho website has only 2 paragraphs of program description. I really would like to learn more about U Minn...

 

[golfman]

I'd like to echo this question. I know someone responded above, but without first-hand knowledge. Is there anyone out there with first-hand knowledge, who has recent experience at the program (ie, someone who interviewed there last year, or a current/previous U Minn resident)? There is little-to-no info in the Ophtho prog compendium about U Minn, and the U Minn Ophtho website has only 2 paragraphs of program description. I really would like to learn more about U Minn...

Cool city (if you don't mind cold) and solid program. The old chair just retired this year (I can't remember who the new one is).

 

[tulip08]

I know they are all very different but just wanted to get a sense of what people thought about them..

 

[Nystagmeetya]

Iowa is regarded as one of the best training programs in the country. I have only heard excellent things about this program.

UVA is a smaller program (3 residents) with high surgical volume. Dr. Peter Netland recently took over as chair, and has begun improving clinical facilities and recruiting new faculty. Solid clinical/surgical experience. 4 month VA rotation 2 hours away (housing provided) which may be a dealbreaker for some people.

Loyola: Another solid program. I've heard the VA experience is excellent. Seems to be geared towards training general ophthalmologists.

I don't know much about Tufts and LSU, though last year people spoke negatively about LSU on the interview trail (I think people were turned off by the interview day).

 

[Slide]

Iowa is regarded as one of the best training programs in the country. I have only heard excellent things about this program.

UVA is a smaller program (3 residents) with high surgical volume. Dr. Peter Netland recently took over as chair, and has begun improving clinical facilities and recruiting new faculty. Solid clinical/surgical experience. 4 month VA rotation 2 hours away (housing provided) which may be a dealbreaker for some people.

Loyola: Another solid program. I've heard the VA experience is excellent. Seems to be geared towards training general ophthalmologists.

I don't know much about Tufts and LSU, though last year people spoke negatively about LSU on the interview trail (I think people were turned off by the interview day).

Two of my resident colleagues are from/near the LSU-Oschner program. They were not very happy with traveling aspect of the program, a huge dealbreaker and rightly so. Though the program is based in New Orleans (a great city, in my opinion), you spend a lot of time traveling to satellite clinics across the southern part of Louisiana. Gas is reimbursed, but not enough for you to break even unless you have a hybrid car (even then, not sure). From what I understand, at least half of your residency is not spent in NOLA. You'll be put up in paid lodging, but it's not nice. From what my colleague told me, it's worse than your typical freshman dorm from college. However, many residents say they felt well-trained at LSU-Oschner.

I think the big issue is traveling constantly to satellite clinics. For single people, this probably isn't an issue, but for married residents, this can be a big deal (especially if there are children). Last year, they had 3 of 8 spots open post-match day. Not sure exactly how that went down, but take that for what it is.

 

[tm12]

Tufts

Awesome faculty, leaders of field in all subspecialties. Decent surgical numbers, about 160 primary cataracts or so but many are obtained in New Mexico during 3rd year.

Iowa is regarded as one of the best training programs in the country. I have only heard excellent things about this program.

UVA is a smaller program (3 residents) with high surgical volume. Dr. Peter Netland recently took over as chair, and has begun improving clinical facilities and recruiting new faculty. Solid clinical/surgical experience. 4 month VA rotation 2 hours away (housing provided) which may be a dealbreaker for some people.

Loyola: Another solid program. I've heard the VA experience is excellent. Seems to be geared towards training general ophthalmologists.

I don't know much about Tufts and LSU, though last year people spoke negatively about LSU on the interview trail (I think people were turned off by the interview day).

 

[jd123]

Any thoughts on SUNY Downstate vs. UMDNJ?

 

[LasikNotLasix]

Tufts

Awesome faculty, leaders of field in all subspecialties. Decent surgical numbers, about 160 primary cataracts or so but many are obtained in New Mexico during 3rd year.

I'm guessing you're a tufts student right now given your username, but how true is it that the faculty are "leaders of the field in all subspecialties"? As far as I can tell, nobody at my school (a top 10 ophtho program) has even heard of any of the faculty other than the chair. That was a little discouraging for me.

 

[Visionary]

I'm guessing you're a tufts student right now given your username, but how true is it that the faculty are "leaders of the field in all subspecialties"? As far as I can tell, nobody at my school (a top 10 ophtho program) has even heard of any of the faculty other than the chair. That was a little discouraging for me.

I think the truth is somewhere in between. Jay Duker, the chairman, is the only premier name at Tufts. They do have all subspecialties represented, but not by "leaders in the field." Good surgical volume. Solid program. I know some folks who trained there. If you're coming from a school with a top 10 program, you're probably looking for a top 10 program; thus, your discouragment.

 

[tm12]

I'm guessing you're a tufts student right now given your username, but how true is it that the faculty are "leaders of the field in all subspecialties"? As far as I can tell, nobody at my school (a top 10 ophtho program) has even heard of any of the faculty other than the chair. That was a little discouraging for me.

Ophthalmology is a very small world. I've been to a half dozen programs and everybody knows everybody, especially within the same subspecialty. I hope you figure out how to be enthusiastic about programs outside the "top 10" else you may find yourself discouraged come January.

 

[SnoPearl]

Thoughts on University of Maryland? I have heard their program is quite busy and is a "sleeper", and just wanted to get some other thoughts.

 

[KlineFogelman]

I think threads like this are slightly distructive. You all shouldnt rank schools based on how other people feel about them. That's a good way to match at a "great program" in a place you hate and can't wait to leave. The only opinion that matters is your own.

Additionally, the mathematical arguments on here are truly fallacious. Ask all the people who matched at their #1 choice how many they would have needed to rank. Answer: 1.

Additionally, from examine these stats from other competitivefiekds, matching rates are bimodal. Some people interview very well at about 6 places, doing well each time, but get incredibly burned out at 12 and essentially subconsciously write them off by mailing them in.

Most importantly, it isn't really how many interviews you get, but HOW you interview. A semi-mute atomaton with a reptilian stare ain't matching at any of the 17 places he interviews at. Then again, the charming guy with the million dollar smile who is an effortless charmer could match after only one interview. You only have to wow one crowd, people. Just some people get 15 chances to do it.

 

[Visionary]

I think threads like this are slightly distructive. You all shouldnt rank schools based on how other people feel about them. That's a good way to match at a "great program" in a place you hate and can't wait to leave. The only opinion that matters is your own.

You're right about that, but I don't see harm in soliciting advice from those who may know more about certain programs than you. You should get as much information as possible about the programs to which you are applying. That allows you to make an informed decision. Not that you shouldn't also take any advice you get with a grain of salt. Faculty member A at program X, for instance, may have a history with a faculty member at program Z. There are a lot of political undertones that you may not realize as a medical student.