2013 APPIC Match Stats

[AcronymAllergy]

I look at the data this morning, and if I recall there were 903 applicants signed up for Phase II....and 77 total APA spots. 75 matched and I believe 2 withdrew. Let me type that again...NINE HUNDRED applicants and SEVENTY-SEVEN total APA spots. That is ridiculous. I haven't crunched the total #'s for all applicants (between Phase I & Phase II) v. APA-acred. spots...but last year less than 60% of all applicants could possibly match to an APA-acred. site. Something is broken when that is the case...probably multiple things.

Below is the information straight from APPIC (and which was subsequently posted by graduatingsoon in the APPIC thread here, just so I'm not stealing their thunder):

Regarding the 4,481 students who registered for the Match:

2,506 (56%) matched to an accredited position
820 (18%) matched to a non-accredited position
1,155 (26%) did not match to a position (includes unmatched and withdrawn applicants)

As graduatingsoon mentioned in their post, I really struggle with identifying other fields that allow for similarly bleak outcomes to occur (i.e., only just over half of students match to accredited spots).

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[cara susanna]

Well, I was thinking of law schools, but they don't require an internship to graduate (AFAIK, anyway).

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Well, I was thinking of law schools, but they don't require an internship to graduate (AFAIK, anyway).

Yeah, that would be the primary difference. Some law schools definitely seem to be taking advantage of their students, although they at least aren't essentially denying them the opportunity to graduate.

Then again, I definitely don't want that being taken as a suggestion that we do away with internship entirely, and thereby just graduate everyone into an already-saturated market.

 

[cara susanna]

I've heard the suggestion that we make internship post-doctoral, which would allow for therapy reimbursement and probably be less of a financial burden on sites.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I've heard the suggestion that we make internship post-doctoral, which would allow for therapy reimbursement and probably be less of a financial burden on sites.

Thing is, I'm not sure how much this would help reimbursement in those states that require a post-doc year to be license-eligible.

Also, I still feel as though the crux of the issue seems to be on the front end (i.e., too many students in the system) rather than the back end (i.e., too few internship spots available), although this is conflated with a lack of psychology self-advocacy, which leads to a lack of appreciation for the value of MH services as a whole. Allowing internship hours to be billable would likely only work to remediate the undersupply of internship spots, while leaving the oversupply of students component unaddressed.

 

[graduatingsoon]

Even if you consider low tier law schools (for example, New York Law School is not even ranked in US news and has been sued by students), their employment rates are significantly higher and generally around 85-90% at graduation (and this was during the peak of the recession). At least their websites are sufficiently detailed regarding employment. APA does not require programs to post employment data at all or starting salaries. It also does not require them to post EPPP pass rates or median pay for internships that people receive.

http://www.nyls.edu/user_files/1/3/4/21/CSRS Employment Stats for Web 0511 v1-rev.pdf

Requiring programs to post data on median debt and employment statistics should be minimal criteria. I think if people saw that the median debt is 180K from a professional school and starting salaries range from being unpaid to 60K, they would be less likely to at least enroll.

 

[cara susanna]

Thing is, I'm not sure how much this would help reimbursement in those states that require a post-doc year to be license-eligible.

Also, I still feel as though the crux of the issue seems to be on the front end (i.e., too many students in the system) rather than the back end (i.e., too few internship spots available), although this is conflated with a lack of psychology self-advocacy, which leads to a lack of appreciation for the value of MH services as a whole. Allowing internship hours to be billable would likely only work to remediate the undersupply of internship spots, while leaving the oversupply of students component unaddressed.

I completely agree, but I'm not sure that APA is willing to do that.

Another thing I've noticed is that APA doesn't seem to require programs to list APA-accredited match rates. A lot of professional schools mention APPIC or paid internships, but not specifically APA.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Below is the information straight from APPIC (and which was subsequently posted by graduatingsoon in the APPIC thread here, just so I'm not stealing their thunder):

Regarding the 4,481 students who registered for the Match:

2,506 (56%) matched to an accredited position
820 (18%) matched to a non-accredited position
1,155 (26%) did not match to a position (includes unmatched and withdrawn applicants)

So people are clear, APA & C(anadian)PA are both acreds, APPIC is not...so that first data point is 56% match to APA & CPA. At least that is how I read it based on #'s from prior years. 56% is right in line w. last year's numbers.

As for being required to post debt & income #'s...I 1000% support this, though some programs are going to say, "how do we know what debt was directly program related?" I think that should be implemented ASAP, but I'm not holding my breath about any changes being made in a timely manner (if at all).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Yeah, that would be the primary difference. Some law schools definitely seem to be taking advantage of their students, although they at least aren't essentially denying them the opportunity to graduate.

I think a closer comparison would be Caribbean/Overseas medical schools. They have a much higher attrition rate, are even more expensive than most schools in the USA, AND their #'s for matching can be decent to horrid. There are two programs in the Caribbean (Ross and...I forget the other) that tend to match decently, but they are the exception to the rule. They also still struggle with the highly competitive slots.

Another thing I've noticed is that APA doesn't seem to require programs to list APA-accredited match rates. A lot of professional schools mention APPIC or paid internships, but not specifically APA.

I think one of the Parent & Williamson (2010-2011?) articles talked about the C-20 disclosure data being funky. I haven't looked at the paper for awhile, but I believe the chart that is "supposed" to be posted was often not posted correctly. I remember notifying a couple of programs about this, and at least one of them updated it accordingly. The non-standard data reporting should have been rectified sometime last year per one of the requirements by the APA (Accred?) Directorate, but I'm not sure of the outcome.

 

[cara susanna]

According to data sent by our DCT, the match rate for Ph.Ds/Ed.Ds was 79.2% for combined phases.

 

[Undaunted]

Yes...I am one of the unmatched for a psychology internship this year (2013). Am I doomed to end up on the Island of Misfit Toys? I'm not planning on it...but marching forward hopefully into the future determined to get matched next year.

I have created a blog site for others of you that might also be unmatched. The URL is:

UnmatchedButUndaunted.wordpress.com

We can share ideas, support and encourage each other, and help each other succeed next year. Rather than do this blog, I could also just start up a new thread on this site if it appears there are others here in my shoes who would be interested.

Hope to connect with any of you who are also unmatched, either here or on the blog.

Congrats to the matched and good tidings to those currently left behind.

 

[Undaunted]

Here! Here!

 

[Promotetruth]

Welcome to the world of those who train clinical psychology graduate students. Disingenuous, really? I know a bunch of clinical faculty at an APA accredited psychology department who are so blatantly hypocritical and dishonest that they make this statement look refreshingly straightforward.

 

[futurepsydoc]

Requiring programs to post data on median debt and employment statistics should be minimal criteria. I think if people saw that the median debt is 180K from a professional school and starting salaries range from being unpaid to 60K, they would be less likely to at least enroll.

I agree. I think this, perhaps more than the match data, would hit home with applicants. I say that because many students are unaware of the match imbalance when applying. It is hard to ignore employment, type of employment, licensing, unemployment numbers, and debt statistics. This would be easy for applicants to understand and use a guidepost when making decisions.

 

[bmedclinic]

Does anyone know who at APA I can email about this kind of stuff? I have wanted to offer some suggestions to them for the longest time, but I don't know who the contact person would be to handle these types of things.

Honestly, this seems like the type of thing where APAGS needs to get it rolling. Perhaps APAGS is just a puppet, though. APA doesnt really seem to have any desire to listen to us as it is.

 

[graduatingsoon]

Does anyone know who at APA I can email about this kind of stuff? I have wanted to offer some suggestions to them for the longest time, but I don't know who the contact person would be to handle these types of things.

I think it would be helpful for unmatched and matched applicants to maybe get together and create something powerful that can generate media attention and also attention of all the major organizations in our field. Maybe someone needs to create a brief video with interviews of students who were affected by the match imbalance?

I also see opinion pieces in the NYtimes about the job market in other fields that seem to generate a lot of press. Maybe someone can write a piece on the match imbalance and how the APA accredits programs that have even a 4% match rate and does not require them to post information about internship salaries or the differences between CAPIC v. APA? The public has no idea about this. People would be horrified that graduate students are taking on full-time unpaid internships or waiting years to match, especially after 5 years of graduate school. If you look at law schools/MBA programs they all have extensive information about employment, salary, types of jobs, etc. Many of these programs will even inform you how many students got jobs in each category with the median salary. I think the APA would be more likely to take action if their unethical practices were published online for all to see. I honestly think that this type of media attention or a law suit would bring about change.