2014 MD/PhD Match

[Fencer]

Let's start this thread....

2014 MD/PhD graduates residency match. Information should be posted in these links as the schools update their websites. My MD/PhD program had an excellent residency match. All of my students got one of their top 3 choices, even in overly-competitive residencies.

Texas MD/PhD Schools
UT - HSC Houston - http://mdphd.uth.tmc.edu/alumni.html
UT - MB (Galveston or Austin programs) - http://www.utmb.edu/mdphd/students/alumni.asp
UT - HSC San Antonio - http://som.uthscsa.edu/mdphd/alumni.asp
UT - Southwestern - http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...d-degrees/mstp/alumni-1984-present/2000s.html
Baylor College of Medicine - https://www.bcm.edu/education/programs/medical-scientist-training-program/alumni_statistics.html

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[plumazul]

Washington University in St. Louis

Anesthesiology, Barnes-Jewish
General Surgery, U of California-San Francisco
Pathology, U of California-San Francisco
Internal Medicine, New York Presbyterian-Weil Cornell
Emergency Medicine, Brigham & Women's
Pediatrics, U of Utah
Psychiatry, Massachusetts General
Neurology, New York Presbyterian-Weil Cornell
Internal Medicine, Barnes-Jewish
Child Neurology/Neuroscience, Baylor U
Anesthesiology, Massachusetts General
Ophthalmology, Washington U
Pathology, U of Pittsburgh
Postdoc, National Institute of Mental Health
Pediatrics, Cincinnati Children's
General Surgery, Massachusetts General
Pathology, Stanford U
Neurology, Brigham & Women's
Diagnostic Radiology, Massachusetts General
Ophthalmology, Scheie Eye Institute- U of Pennsylvania
Postdoc, U of Pittsburgh


WEILL CORNELL/ROCKEFELLER/SLOAN-KETTERING
TRI-INSTITUTIONAL MD-PHD PROGRAM
RESIDENCY APPOINTMENTS

Medicine-Preliminary/Physical Medicine & Rehabilitation - Einstein/Beth Israel Medical Center/NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia & Weill Cornell, New York, NY
Medicine-Preliminary/Radiation Oncology -North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System, Forest Hills, NY/NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital-Weill Cornell, New York, NY
Pathology - Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA
Transitional Dermatology/Research - Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY/University of California San Francisco, San Francisco, CA
Internal Medicine Yale-New Haven Hospital, New Haven, CT
Transitional/Radiology - Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/Brigham & Women’s Hospital, Boston, MA
Internal Medicine - Brigham & Women’s Hospital, Boston, MA
Medicine-Preliminary/Radiation Oncology - North Shore-Long Island Jewish Health System, Forest Hills, NY/Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, New York, NY
Psychiatry - University of Washington Affiliated Hospitals, Seattle, WA
Transitional/Radiology Oncology - Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center/Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center
Internal Medicine - NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital-Columbia
Pediatrics/Research - Stanford University Programs, Stanford, CA
Internal Medicine - Johns Hopkins Hospital, Baltimore, MD


NYU MSTP Class of 2014 Residency Appointments

Internal Medicine, NYU School of Medicine, New York, NY
Internal Medicine, NY Presbyterian Hospital - Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY
PGY1 Preliminary Medicine, Alameda County Medical Center, Oakland, CA; PGY2 Dermatology, UC Irvine Medical Center, Orange, CA
PGY1 Preliminary Surgery, NYU School of Medicine, New York, NY; PGY2 Urology, NYU School of Medicine, New York, NY
Internal Medicine, Massachusetts General Hospital, Boston, MA
Internal Medicine, NY Presbyterian Hospital - Columbia University Medical Center, New York, NY
Psychiatry, NYU School of Medicine, New York, NY

 

[Doctor&Geek]

UAB 2014
Emergency Medicine - Nebraska
Internal Medicine - Johns Hopkins
Internal Medicine - Minnesota
Internal Medicine - WashU
Radiation Oncology - Miami

 

[Patros]

You know, I am not surprised that only a few programs have posted their 2014 matches on their websites so far. It's only been a few days after all. But a lot of these programs are stuck in 2012. UCSF is stuck in 2011, what are they doing over there?... How long does it take to do "ctrl-c, ctrl-v" with a text list?


Albert Einstein MSTP
Yale-New Haven Hosp. (Pathology)
Children's Hosp. of Philadelphia (Pediatrics)
NYP-Columbia Univ. Med. Ctr. (Pediatrics)
Loma Linda Med. Ctr., CA (Internal Medicine)
Yale-New Haven Hosp. (Neurology)
NYP-Columbia Univ. Med. Ctr. (Pathology)
Children's Hosp. of Philadelphia (Child Neurology)
Stanford Univ. Hosp. (Pathology-Research)
NYP-Columbia Univ. Med. Ctr. (Internal Medicine)
Massachusetts Gen. Hosp. (Internal Medicine)
Einstein/Montefiore Med. Ctr. (Neurology)
Hosp. of the Univ. of Pennsylvania (Internal Medicine - ABIM Research)
NYP-Columbia Univ. Med. Ctr. (Internal Medicine)
Einstein/Montefiore Med. Ctr. (Internal Medicine)
Postdoctoral Research

University of Washington MSTP
U Washington Affil Hosps Pediatrics
U Massachusetts Med School Vasuclar Surgery
U Michigan Hosps-Ann Arbor Internal Medicine
U Washington Affil Hosps Pediatrics
Swedish Medical Center-WA Family Medicine
UCSF Internal Medicine
U Michigan Hosps-Ann Arbor Plastic Surgery (Integrated)
Northwestern McGaw/Lurie Peds-IL Pediatrics
U Washington Affil Hosps Neurological Surgery
U Washington Affil Hosps Internal Medicine
U Washington Affil Hosps Internal Medicine

 

[Fencer]

You know, I am not surprised that only a few programs have posted their 2014 matches on their websites so far. It's only been a few days after all.

The MD/PhD students just open their envelopes yesterday at 11 am.

 

[Patros]

The MD/PhD students just open their envelopes yesterday at 11 am.

"it's only been a few days one day after all"

 

[Moonlightstory1]

The MD/PhD students just open their envelopes yesterday at 11 am.

@Fencer , I understand that analyzing MD-PhD match lists is different. More people will be inclined towards internal med as opposed to "competitive" neurosurgery plastics etc.

What exactly are we supposed to look for when judging match lists? how can we use this to guide our decision?

 

[Fencer]

Most MD/PhD applicants have the belief that they must do their MD/PhD at an Ivy program or their perceived value as a clinician scientist is little or poor. What most applicants do not realize is that their post-doc and/or fellowship, which is about 12-15 years after their MD/PhD application is the most critical step because it is more likely to define your area of research and your connections with other clinician scientists in your field. What determines whether you get accepted into that "prestigious" post-doc and/or fellowship are: 1) your performance during your residency (including publishing some new papers (not just finishing your PhD manuscripts), 2) your performance during your PhD (i.e.: papers, grants, and who was your mentor), 3) the prestige of your residency, and 4) the prestige of your MD/PhD program. I believe that they are in that order. Now, the prestige of your residency is not based on USNWR clinical specialty rankings (albeit these are a bit more accurate for "clinical training" than medical school rankings), but how much research happens for that particular department. To get a better idea of the latter, you need to consult this link: http://www.brimr.org/NIH_Awards/2013/NIH_Awards_2013.htm Now, this is imprecise as some programs, for example, Harvard has strong research programs at MGH and Brigham but they are listed by their SOM departments at a much lower number. Another caveat is that some institutions might have research institutes with that funding but their listed department has much less. Lastly, funding from other sources such as VA, DOD, Pharma, and research foundations is not included. Nevertheless, it gives you a tool to use for comparisons about the strength of their specialty research programs.

The residency match is typically for the first 3-4 years of specialty training, and many stay at that location to complete their fellowship/post-doc.

Thus, a small tier school MD/PhD program might be able to place the majority of their graduates in mid to large research programs, and those graduates are able to pursue fellowships/postdocs at top research institutions. The reality is that any MD/PhD graduate in the U.S. who has the drive, dedication, resilience and thick skin will be competitive for those top fellowships, perhaps as their 2nd fellowship.

 

[Fencer]

Got a PM with information:

Case Western's MSTP match list:
Internal Medicine - Cleveland Clinic
Internal Medicine - Case Western Reserve/University Hospitals
Neurology - Johns Hopkins
Neurosurgery - Virginia Commonwealth University
Ophthalmology - Illinois Eye and Ear
Pathology - University of North Carolina
Pathology - Case Western Reserve/University Hospitals
Radiology - UCSD
Radiation Oncology - Vanderbilt

 

[Fencer]

Got several PMs with information:

Rutgers RWJMS-Princeton U. MD/PhD Match List
Internal Medicine - Dartmouth
Neurology – NewYork-Presbyterian
Neurosurgery – Mayo Clinic
Ophthalmology – Wills Eye Institute
Orthopedic surgery – Boston University

Univ. of Texas HSC San Antonio MD/PhD Match List
Anesthesiology – Wake Forest University
Pediatrics – Denver Children’s Hospital
Radiation Oncology – Univ. of Texas Southwestern

Stony Brook MSTP Match List
Anesthesiology- Stanford University (Medicine Prelim- Stony Brook)
Child Neurology- Boston Children's (2yr Peds Prelim- Stony Brook)
Internal Medicine- Univ of Michigan
Internal Medicine- University of Pittsburgh Medical Center
Pathology- Einstein/Montefiore
Pediatrics- Cincinnati Children's Hospital

 

[Fencer]

Another PM:

Virginia Commonwealth Univ. MD/PhD Match List
Anesthesia - Montefiore
Med/Peds - University of Kentucky
Neurology - MGH
Pediatrics - Cincinnati Children's
Psychiatry - OHSU
Psychiatry - Emory
Ophthalmology - University Hospital Case

 

[OddNath]

UT-Houston MD/PhD 2014:

Anesthesia - UT-Houston
Neurosurgery - Barrow Institute

 

[Fencer]

Another PM...

Columbia MSTP Match List:

Child Neurology- UCSF
Pediatrics- UCSF
Pediatrics- Yale
Deferred Residency
Internal Medicine/PSTP- Northwestern
Internal Medicine- Mass General
Pathology- Mass General
Ophthalmology- UCLA
Psychiatry- NYU

 

[Fencer]

just got another PM...

Univ. of Virginia MSTP Match List:

Cohen, Jarish Newman...U of California/San Francisco...San Francisco, CA...PGY-1...Pathology
Gagan, Jeffrey Robert...Brigham & Womens Hosp...Boston, MA...PGY-1...Pathology/Clinical
Pollard III, Courtney...Harbor Hospital Ctr...Baltimore, MD...PGY-1...Medicine-Preliminary
Pollard III, Courtney...Univ of Texas/Houston...Houston, TX...PGY-2...Radiation Oncology
Rubinstein, Jeremy Devin...Cincinnati Childrens Hosp...Cincinnati, OH...PGY-1...Pediatrics
Barletta, Kathryn Elizabeth...Brigham & Womens Hosp...Boston, MA...PGY-1...Obstetrics and Gynecology
Peach, Matthew Sean...Univ of Virginia SOM...Charlottesville, VA...PGY-1...Surgery-Preliminary
Peach, Matthew Sean...Univ of Virginia SOM...Charlottesville, VA...PGY-2...Radiation Oncology
Sloan, Emily Alyce...Univ of Virginia SOM...Charlottesville, VA...PGY-1...Pathology
Thorne, Bryan Christopher...Univ of Virginia SOM...Charlottesville, VA...PGY-1...Pediatrics

 

[texan2009]

just got another PM...

Univ. of Virginia MSTP Match List:

Pollard III, Courtney...Harbor Hospital Ctr...Baltimore, MD...PGY-1...Medicine-Preliminary
Pollard III, Courtney...Univ of Texas/Houston...Houston, TX...PGY-2...Radiation Oncology

This Rad Onc does not exist. Unless the ...is MD Anderson.

 

[npost]

Rosalind Franklin University/Chicago Medical School 2014 MD.PhD Match

Radiation Oncology- Northwestern University, Chicago, IL
Dermatology- Brown University, Providence, RI
Neurosurgery- Barnes-Jewish Hospital, St. Louis, MO

 

[Patros]

University of Pennsylvania MSTP:

Medicine - Harvard (Brigham & Women's)
Anesthesiology - Penn (HUP)
Opthalmology - UC Irvine
Radiology - Harvard (MGH)
Pathology - Harvard (MGH)
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Orthopaedic surgery - U Michigan
Pathology - Penn (HUP)
Neurology - UCSF
Pediatrics - Penn (CHOP)
Opthalmology - Wash U
Medicine - Wash U
Neurosurgery - Cornell NYP
Anesthesiology - Harvard (MGH)
Pediatrics - St. Christophers
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Pathology - Harvard (Brigham & Women's)
Psychiatry - UTSW

Dang, the folks at UPenn aren't holding back! It also seems like they have a real love affair with Boston.

 

[mTORC]

University of Pennsylvania MSTP:

Medicine - Harvard (Brigham & Women's)
Anesthesiology - Penn (HUP)
Opthalmology - UC Irvine
Radiology - Harvard (MGH)
Pathology - Harvard (MGH)
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Orthopaedic surgery - U Michigan
Pathology - Penn (HUP)
Neurology - UCSF
Pediatrics - Penn (CHOP)
Opthalmology - Wash U
Medicine - Wash U
Neurosurgery - Cornell NYP
Anesthesiology - Harvard (MGH)
Pediatrics - St. Christophers
Medicine - Harvard (MGH)
Pathology - Harvard (Brigham & Women's)
Psychiatry - UTSW

Dang, the folks at UPenn aren't holding back! It also seems like they have a real love affair with Boston.

Jeez, an MSTP grad pursuing neurosurgery. I can't even imagine.

 

[uniqenam]

Jeez, an MSTP grad pursuing neurosurgery. I can't even imagine.

A 4th year from my program matched plastic surgery...I can't imagine the combined MSTP/plastics training regimen.

 

[Fencer]

A couple more PMs:

Baylor College of Medicine MSTP Match:
Pathology - Stanford University
Dermatology - BCM
Neurology - UCSF
Psychiatry - Columbia/NY Presbyterian
Pediatrics - BCM
PM&R - UT-Southwestern
Dermatology - Case Western

UCSF MSTP match:
IM- Stanford
IM- UCSF
IM- Mass Gen
Neurology- UCSF
Child Neurology- NY Presbyterian Cornell
Family Medicine- Loma Linda
Pediatrics- Stanford
Pathology- Stanford
IM prelim/Diag Radiology- NY Presbyterian Cornell
IM prelim/Diag Radiology- UW
IM prelim/Ophthalmology- University of Michigan

 

[ratherbefishing]

A 4th year from my program matched plastic surgery...I can't imagine the combined MSTP/plastics training regimen.

you're surprised that uber-driven people choose to pursue a long and demanding residency? most of your MD-only colleagues will say the same thing about the path you are about to embark upon.

 

[MSTPlease]

Sinai

Internal Medicine-Research Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Medicine-PreliminaryAbington Mem Hosp-PA - Radition-Oncology U Michigan Hosps-Ann Arbor
Pediatrics Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Pediatrics Einstein/Montefiore Med Ctr-NY
Medicine-PreliminaryU Maryland-Mercy Med Ctr - Neurology Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Internal Medicine-Research Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Pediatrics Childrens Hospital-LA-CA
Pediatrics Childrens Hospital-Boston-MA
Orthopaedic Surgery Rutgers-R W Johnson Medical School-NJ
Internal Medicine-Research Baylor Coll Med-Houston-TX
Internal Medicine-Research Icahn SOM at Mount Sinai, Mount Sinai Hospital-NY
Neurological Surgery Northwestern McGaw/NMH/VA-IL

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Jeez, an MSTP grad pursuing neurosurgery. I can't even imagine.

Neurosurgery? Not rare at all.

http://neurosurgery.ucsf.edu/index.php/about_us_residents.html

 

[K31]

Jeez, an MSTP grad pursuing neurosurgery. I can't even imagine.

In the most recent Charting Outcomes report, 10% of US seniors matching in Neurosurgery had a PhD. Only Rad Onc, Path, and Neuro had more.

 

[zippyziggy]

Duke MD/PhD

Massachusetts General Hospital-Neurosurgery, Boston MA
Massachusetts General Hospital-Internal Medicine, Boston MA
Brigham and Woman’s Hospital-Pathology, Boston, MA
Massachusetts General Hospital-Internal Medicine, Boston, MA
University of California, San Francisco-Pathology, San Francisco, CA
Harvard Radiation/Oncology Residency Program, Boston, MA
Columbia University, Dermatology, New York, NY

 

[gbwillner]

In the most recent Charting Outcomes report, 10% of US seniors matching in Neurosurgery had a PhD. Only Rad Onc, Path, and Neuro had more.

It's called "cashing in your chips".

 

[mTORC]

Well good for them! I definitely couldn't do 8 years MD/PhD followed by another 8 years of residency training. Do they generally do research as neurosurgeons? I imagine that it's really conducive to research since so little is known about the brain.

 

[Patros]

Well good for them! I definitely couldn't do 8 years MD/PhD followed by another 8 years of residency training. Do they generally do research as neurosurgeons? I imagine that it's really conducive to research since so little is known about the brain.

The answer to your question is yes, the academic neurosurgery residencies I have read about are 7 years and they include 18-24 months of research training. That's not so bad, at least from what I have read about. The ABIM research-track is what, 6-7 years (including fellowship+research years)? The ABR Holman pathway is 5 years, but does not include a subspecialty fellowship. Pathology, neurology, and psychiatry research-track residencies can be as short as 4 years (also not including subspecialty fellowships), which would explain why they tend to be popular for MSTP grads.
In any case, it doesn't seem to me that surgery is the particularly lengthier than research track residencies that MD/PhDs usually go to, namely the internal medicine ones.

 

[gbwillner]

The answer to your question is yes, the academic neurosurgery residencies I have read about are 7 years and they include 18-24 months of research training. That's not so bad, at least from what I have read about. The ABIM research-track is what, 6-7 years (including fellowship+research years)? The ABR Holman pathway is 5 years, but does not include a subspecialty fellowship. Pathology, neurology, and psychiatry research-track residencies can be as short as 4 years (also not including subspecialty fellowships), which would explain why they tend to be popular for MSTP grads.
In any case, it doesn't seem to me that surgery is the particularly lengthier than research track residencies that MD/PhDs usually go to, namely the internal medicine ones.

This. Unless you do a spine fellowship, it's really not that much longer (some programs are 7 years). IM is 3 years, but with fellowship it's 6. Saying you can't imagine 16 years of training... that's really not a lot for many people. The mean time to graduation for MSTP is like 8.5 years, but I know plenty who took 10 or 11. Some even more than 12. At that point any residency stretches training out to that time. Also, don't forget post-doc time!!! and Instructor-level faculty@!!!!!!! When you add it all up, it could be almost 20 years post-bac to get a clinician-scientist 80/20 track job.

 

[Fencer]

A couple of PMs:

Dartmouth MD/PhD Match:
Child Neurology: Children's Hospital Boston (Harvard)
Neurosurgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital (Harvard)
Pediatrics/Anesthesiology Combined: Stanford

Vanderbilt MSTP Match:
Pediatrics - Boston Children’s Hospital/Harvard
Emergency Medicine - University Hospitals/Case Medical Center/CWRU
Diagnostic Radiology - Duke
Obstetrics/Gynecology - Northwestern
Psychiatry (Research Track) - UCLA Semel Institute of Neuroscience
Internal Medicine - University of Michigan
Internal Medicine - University of Pittsburgh
Internal Medicine - Vanderbilt
Internal Medicine - Vanderbilt
Pediatrics - Vanderbilt
Surgery Prelim - Vanderbilt
Anesthesiology at Barnes-Jewish Hospital/WashU

 

[Cokol]

.

 

[mTORC]

A couple of PMs:

Dartmouth MD/PhD Match:
Child Neurology: Children's Hospital Boston (Harvard)
Neurosurgery: Brigham & Women's Hospital (Harvard)
Pediatrics/Anesthesiology Combined: Stanford

Vanderbilt MSTP Match:
Pediatrics - Boston Children’s Hospital/Harvard
Emergency Medicine - University Hospitals/Case Medical Center/CWRU
Diagnostic Radiology - Duke
Obstetrics/Gynecology - Northwestern
Psychiatry (Research Track) - UCLA Semel Institute of Neuroscience
Internal Medicine - University of Michigan
Internal Medicine - University of Pittsburgh
Internal Medicine - Vanderbilt
Internal Medicine - Vanderbilt
Pediatrics - Vanderbilt
Surgery Prelim - Vanderbilt
Anesthesiology at Barnes-Jewish Hospital/WashU

I read that Dartmouth is shutting down their MD/PhD program - http://thedartmouth.com/2014/02/14/news/geisel-suspends-m-d-ph-d-applications

 

[plumazul]

I read that Dartmouth is shutting down their MD/PhD program - http://thedartmouth.com/2014/02/14/news/geisel-suspends-m-d-ph-d-applications

I believe they are getting a 2 year reprieve.

 

[Fencer]

... with a reduction of the entry class from 3 to 2 slots (despite a very large number of applicants - 267 in 2013 - see AAMC table 33). The association of MD/PhD program directors played a significant role in the protest.

sources:
http://thedartmouth.com/2014/02/21/news/geisel-reverses-m-d-p-h-d-application-suspension
https://www.aamc.org/download/321544/data/2013factstable33.pdf

 

[gonogo]

Jeez, an MSTP grad pursuing neurosurgery. I can't even imagine.

As said above, it's pretty common to see MD/PHDs in neurosurgery. If you compare length of training between neurosurgery and IM or surgical specialties, it's really not that different, maybe 1 or 2 years at most.

 

[Fencer]

another PM:

Chicago Medical School/Rosalind Franklin
Dermatology-Brown
Neurosurgery-Wash U
Rad onc-Northwestern

 

[jumbo91]

Emory MSTP

Pediatrics at the UCSF School of Medicine
Opthalmology at the University of Pennsylvania Health System
Neurology at Emory University School of Medicine
Radiation Oncology at the UT Southwestern Medical Center
Vascular Surgery at the University of Michigan Health System
Anesthesiology at NY Presbytarian / Weill Cornell Medical Center

 

[jjmack]

Anyone have UCLA's?

 

[Fencer]

Another PM:

University of Minnesota MSTP match list:

Internal Medicine, Massachusetts General
Postdoc, Deferred Residency
Pediatrics, Minnesota
Pediatrics-Medical Genetics, Children's National
Pediatric Neurology, Baylor
Internal Medicine (ABIM), Cornell
Pediatric Neurology, U. Washington
Radiation Oncology, Beaumont Health System
Pediatrics, UCSD
Pediatrics, Boston Children's
Clinical Pathology, Yale
Plastic Surgery, UT Southwestern

link: http://www.med.umn.edu/mdphd/about-the-program/alumni-directory/residency-match/index.htm

 

[Griffin III]

Let's start this thread....

2014 MD/PhD graduates residency match. Information should be posted in these links as the schools update their websites. My MD/PhD program had an excellent residency match. All of my students got one of their top 3 choices, even in overly-competitive residencies.

Texas MD/PhD Schools
UT - HSC Houston - http://mdphd.uth.tmc.edu/alumni.html
UT - MB (Galveston or Austin programs) - http://www.utmb.edu/mdphd/students/alumni.asp
UT - HSC San Antonio - http://som.uthscsa.edu/mdphd/alumni.asp
UT - Southwestern - http://www.utsouthwestern.edu/educa...d-degrees/mstp/alumni-1984-present/2000s.html
Baylor College of Medicine - https://www.bcm.edu/education/programs/medical-scientist-training-program/alumni_statistics.html

You missed Texas A&M:

Anesthesiology - Cedars-Sinai Medical Center
Ophthalmology - Texas A&M College of Medicine-Scott and White

 

[Griffin III]

Question for the board:

The time is nearing for me to be concerned about residencies and the like. I'm an MD/PhD student who would like to pursue Internal Medicine followed by a Fellowship and a career in academic medicine. I've seen in other threads that an MD/PhD is worth a lot less than it used to be to Medicine Residencies; it's been posited that it's now roughly worth the same as being AOA. Do you feel that this is true? If not, where would you rank a PhD in terms of importance to residencies compared to AOA, high step scores, Top 25 medical programs, recommendation letters, etc?

 

[solitude]

Question for the board:

The time is nearing for me to be concerned about residencies and the like. I'm an MD/PhD student who would like to pursue Internal Medicine followed by a Fellowship and a career in academic medicine. I've seen in other threads that an MD/PhD is worth a lot less than it used to be to Medicine Residencies; it's been posited that it's now roughly worth the same as being AOA. Do you feel that this is true? If not, where would you rank a PhD in terms of importance to residencies compared to AOA, high step scores, Top 25 medical programs, recommendation letters, etc?

IMO, AOA > high steps > top 25 > MSTP > rec letters. Unless you have outlier rec letters, i.e. people who are really willing to go to bat for you, in which case it can trump everything. But for most people, it seems they're pretty generic and simply recapitulate the fact that they are AOA, or published papers, etc. which is in the rest of the app.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Question for the board:

The time is nearing for me to be concerned about residencies and the like. I'm an MD/PhD student who would like to pursue Internal Medicine followed by a Fellowship and a career in academic medicine. I've seen in other threads that an MD/PhD is worth a lot less than it used to be to Medicine Residencies; it's been posited that it's now roughly worth the same as being AOA. Do you feel that this is true? If not, where would you rank a PhD in terms of importance to residencies compared to AOA, high step scores, Top 25 medical programs, recommendation letters, etc?

It's a complete package but I think it is just one other credential, no more important than AOA at the top residencies. It used to be "but you have a PhD, so you're good/golden," where a PhD might salvage a mostly P/HP clinical transcript, a 235 step 1, and perhaps even no honors in medicine, and you'd still get into MGH IM - but this is no longer the case. The top residencies expect 250+ step 1, preferably step 2 also, mostly honors in 3rd year, honors in medicine clerkship + AI, and ideally AOA. Snobbery is a factor, too. All else equal, coming from Yale medical school without a PhD vs. coming from MCW (or heck, even UCSD) with a PhD (even a very good one), is going to carry you farther at the top IM residencies.

It's not fair, but it's a whole different game from when I started MD/PhD.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

Btw, this is what I call the "highschoolization" of residency application. It used to be that applying to residency was about the hard stuff - step scores, clinical performance, research output. Nowadays, it's gone the way of the college application process, where graduating early, a whole slew of AP courses, valedictorian, high SAT scores, etc. doesn't matter at all. It's required but does nothing to enhance the application. The competition is so stiff that you will never stand out.

You need that club you started, the school newspaper of which you're the editor, participation in Juilliard/Tangelwood pre-college violin performance (even if you'll never play violin again and just want to be a lawyer), writing a "novel" (the quality doesn't matter, so long as you publish it and it has a flashy title), "saving the children" of the CAR, etc.

You really need to be a performing seal who entertains (enough) the first pass application-reader (often a program coordinator or someone else without an MD or PhD) to get to the interview stage, then need to put on a first-rate dog and pony show to the interviewers to get ranked decently.

 

[Griffin III]

My goal isn't MGH; I realize that's a bit out of reach. Still, I was hoping for a Top 15ish program. I think that should be good enough to launch a career in academic medicine.

It's pretty disheartening to see how much the value of a PhD has dropped; I guess that's the downside of entering into a program that takes 7-9 years. Oh well, I still don't regret choosing this path.

 

[snobored18]

My goal isn't MGH; I realize that's a bit out of reach. Still, I was hoping for a Top 15ish program. I think that should be good enough to launch a career in academic medicine.

It's pretty disheartening to see how much the value of a PhD has dropped; I guess that's the downside of entering into a program that takes 7-9 years. Oh well, I still don't regret choosing this path.

For what it is worth, a PhD degree alone definitely isn't worth what it used to be in terms of the residency rat race, but a highly productive PhD (multiple first author pubs, grants, patents, awards, etc) can be a major distinguishing factor if you've got solid board scores and clinical grades (e.g. 230+ and a mix of H/HP). It really is the accomplishments that came from the PhD, not the degree itself that matters these days and unfortunately even a super productive PhD won't make up for sub-par clinical performance in a specialty like IM with a decent number of MD/PhD applicants (might be different for peds, anesthesia, etc that just don't get a ton of MD/PhDs a year).

The one bright spot is that the IM research tracks still seem to heavily favor MD/PhDs and are perhaps a bit more flexible on the hard metrics if someone is truly a research all-star...as long as there isn't clear evidence that applicant will be dangerous on the wards.

On the bright side, going the MSTP route should allow you to pursue what you love without the pressure/gamble of trying to picking the current high paying specialty du jour needed to pay off your mountain of medical school debt in the ever shifting Medicare reimbursement roller coaster...or at least that is what I tell myself.

 

[Fencer]

The value of the PhD is higher than described above, particularly if accompanied by 3+ publications.

Regarding the quote by Griffin III, I also left out TT because I couldn't find as in the case of A&M a match list.

 

[pithecanthropus]

Having just completed the process, I think the winning formula is to be very strong in any 2-3 areas while not being weak in any. My board scores were solid but not spectacular, and I didn't even have CK/CS when most interview invites went out. I had a productive PhD with multiple grants and awards, but this was rarely brought up. My school is respectable, but mostly under the radar. My interviews were okay, but I don't think I did much to stand out at most places. I was not AOA. With regard to "highschoolization", there weren't any bells or whistles on my application. Filling out ERAS mostly demonstrated to me how boring I'd become in graduate school. I did, however, have good clinical grades to go with very strong comments in my letters and MSPE. Not letters from famous people, just very strong comments from supportive faculty. Those two were the things that people reading my application commented on repeatedly, and the match turned out very well for me.

It's unfortunate that the PhD doesn't count for more since MD-PhDs really need to be in major academic centers if they are to continue in a research-oriented career path. But if you want to get there, you're going to have to go through the hordes of aspiring GI/cards fellows using criteria established predominantly by and for non-MD-PhDs. Some programs are sensitive to this dynamic, but not all.

 

[Underarchiever]

Btw, this is what I call the "highschoolization" of residency application. It used to be that applying to residency was about the hard stuff - step scores, clinical performance, research output. Nowadays, it's gone the way of the college application process, where graduating early, a whole slew of AP courses, valedictorian, high SAT scores, etc. doesn't matter at all. It's required but does nothing to enhance the application. The competition is so stiff that you will never stand out.

You need that club you started, the school newspaper of which you're the editor, participation in Juilliard/Tangelwood pre-college violin performance (even if you'll never play violin again and just want to be a lawyer), writing a "novel" (the quality doesn't matter, so long as you publish it and it has a flashy title), "saving the children" of the CAR, etc.

You really need to be a performing seal who entertains (enough) the first pass application-reader (often a program coordinator or someone else without an MD or PhD) to get to the interview stage, then need to put on a first-rate dog and pony show to the interviewers to get ranked decently.

I sit in the recruitment committee of a very competitive residency program. Your perception seems way out of whack. We really don't care those fluffy extracurricular activities. If you have a Ph.D., your productivity matters. Low productivity from Ph.D. is a red flag regardless what school you come from. If you are a highly productive MD/PhD from MCW, you may trump a Yale MD applicant assuming all other factors equal. Even though reputation of a medical school matters, the final ranking is determined by the perception of the quality of the candidate and the interest of the candidate towards the program.

 

[mercaptovizadeh]

I sit in the recruitment committee of a very competitive residency program. Your perception seems way out of whack. We really don't care those fluffy extracurricular activities. If you have a Ph.D., your productivity matters. Low productivity from Ph.D. is a red flag regardless what school you come from. If you are a highly productive MD/PhD from MCW, you may trump a Yale MD applicant assuming all other factors equal. Even though reputation of a medical school matters, the final ranking is determined by the perception of the quality of the candidate and the interest of the candidate towards the program.

Why did you suddenly jump to productivity, as if to imply that that was the reason programs have been less interested in MD/PhDs lately? I applied with 10 publications, honors in 7/10 clerkships/electives/AI (including the specialty of interest to which I applied - med-peds), strong LORs, step 1 of 250+, step 2 of 270+. No AOA - which MD/PhDs in my class did not receive for reasons that can only be described as political. I struggled to get interviews at top institutions, and when I interviewed was under the distinct impression that they were far less interested in my research and career goals in science than in what volunteering or leadership project (or lack thereof) I had done. Oh, and AOA seemed to be very important in their minds.

My situation is by no means unique. Last year, a colleague with many publications (including 1st author PNAS, for what it's worth), an NRSA F30, honors in IM/peds/neuro clerkships, step 1 of 250-260 (so far as I know), etc. but again no AOA, did not so much as get interviewed by MGH or UCSF for IM residency, and ended up at his 2nd choice from programs that invited him to interview.

My MD/PhD colleagues this year applying to ortho and radiology with comparable publication records (and with F30 grants, which I didn't have), board scores, clinical clerkships, etc. did not so much as get interviews at many top places. Even places at which they did away rotations. Again, was their lack of AOA the reason?

On the other hand, my other MD/PhD colleague applying to IM several years ago got into BWH for IM. She wasn't AOA, her board score was below 240, she didn't get honors in IM. She did do several months of research post-PhD in a very well connected lab, got a 15th author position on a Nature Medicine paper (take that for what it's worth), and had this very well connected PI (who had been recruited from BWH several years prior) make phone calls to BWH people on her behalf.

Do not be quick to cast the blame on the applicants' supposed deficiencies. You speak for one residency selection committee and one specialty. Many of us senior MSTP students have had the opportunity to observe across the past several years and over a variety of specialties that many excellent MD/PhD applicants are getting weeded out at the pre-interview stage because they lack political connections, because they lack the extracurriculars that MD-only colleagues have, because of a perceived blemish in their clinical performance (e.g. lack of AOA - as if that was somehow non-redundant with the clinical rotation grades!), because they lack that 7th author Science paper from big-name-PI's lab, etc. Just saying.