2015 scores…how would you evaluate them?

[connie95]

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I was hoping adcoms could answer this! How are your schools planning to evaluate old vs new MCAT scores? Especially in cases where two applicants are exactly the same (in terms of EC's, GPA, research etc), except for the fact that one student took the new MCAT and the other took the old.

Do you plan to look at percentile scores? Would you look favorably upon applicants that took the new MCAT? Or is it so confusing that you would actually prefer applicants to have taken the old one?

Also, for the more competitive schools (LizzyM and gyngyn), is there a baseline 2015 score that you consider minimum for your school?

Now, I know there is no official information from the AAMC regarding the scores, but I suspect that schools might have discussed this matter since they have to deal with a mixed applicant pool now...

@Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn @hushcom @Catalystik would really appreciate your input!

 

[gyngyn]

We'll just use percentiles. No preference for new v old. Realistically, there is very little chance for folks with our posted MCAT 10th percentile, you'd have to be amazing in every other way.

 

[connie95]

We'll just use percentiles. No preference for new v old. Realistically, there is very little chance for folks with our posted MCAT 10th percentile, you'd have to be amazing in every other way.

I see…and these percentiles will be set by the AAMC right? Also, when evaluating a student who has taken the old MCAT but retaken the new MCAT, do you plan to place more weight on the new one? Or will you still average/consider past scores when inviting candidates to interview?

 

[gyngyn]

I see…and these percentiles will be set by the AAMC right? Also, when evaluating a student who has taken the old MCAT but retaken the new MCAT, do you plan to place more weight on the new one? Or will you still average/consider past scores when inviting candidates to interview?

No preference will be given to new vs old. All scores are considered but the fewer, the better.
The best MCAT strategy remains: a single strong score.

 

[Ismet]

Especially in cases where two applicants are exactly the same (in terms of EC's, GPA, research etc)

This doesn't happen. Two applicants are never exactly the same except for MCAT, and we don't compare two applicants to each other like that.

As for the MCAT, as gyngyn said, I'm assuming it will go by percentiles.

 

[gyngyn]

This doesn't happen. Two applicants are never exactly the same except for MCAT, and we don't compare two applicants to each other like that.

Exactly this. We have thousands of applicants. They are not compared to each other on a one to one basis.

 

[Goro]

Concur 100% with my learned colleagues gyngyn and Ismet. it will take a few years to get used to the new numbers to reach the point where we can say "# = a 30 score from the old MCAT" and get the hang of seeing the new equivalents of 25 vs 30 vs 33 vs 36 vs 40+

I was hoping adcoms could answer this! How are your schools planning to evaluate old vs new MCAT scores? Especially in cases where two applicants are exactly the same (in terms of EC's, GPA, research etc), except for the fact that one student took the new MCAT and the other took the old.

Do you plan to look at percentile scores? Would you look favorably upon applicants that took the new MCAT? Or is it so confusing that you would actually prefer applicants to have taken the old one?

Also, for the more competitive schools (LizzyM and gyngyn), is there a baseline 2015 score that you consider minimum for your school?

Now, I know there is no official information from the AAMC regarding the scores, but I suspect that schools might have discussed this matter since they have to deal with a mixed applicant pool now...

@Goro @LizzyM @gyngyn @hushcom @Catalystik would really appreciate your input!

 

[connie95]

Concur 100% with my learned colleagues gyngyn and Ismet. it will take a few years to get used to the new numbers to reach the point where we can say "# = a 30 score from the old MCAT" and get the hang of seeing the new equivalents of 25 vs 30 vs 33 vs 36 vs 40+

Okay, so I'm guessing the AAMC percentiles will be used extensively and the number (500 vs 510 etc) won't matter as much…but can you comment on this statement made in another thread?

In fact, my largest worry is that med schools will not know how to properly interpret the new scores. I bet the AAMC spent all this time and money making the new MCAT valid, and then the validity will fly out the window because med schools don't have the same level of expertise. I strongly suspect that when the application pool contains a mix of old-style scores and new-style scores, at least some med schools (but not all med schools) will screw up in a way that systematically favors either the old-style or new-style. This will probably be more or less random. This happens every time the scale on a standardized test changes.

Do you expect something like this to happen?

 

[connie95]

No preference will be given to new vs old. All scores are considered but the fewer, the better.
The best MCAT strategy remains: a single strong score.

I see, thanks! I was trying to rush into taking the old MCAT, but I'm not fully ready and I don't think it's a smart idea to take the MCAT "hoping" for a 30+ when practice scores show otherwise. I know some students get lucky and score above average…but still. Seeing how many adcoms suggest a single strong MCAT, I will try to take it only once!

 

[Goro]

Irrational pre-med fear of the unknown. The some people are carrying on about the new test, you'd think it was going to be written in Korean. We're not idiots and neither is AAMC. When someone scores in the 90th %, on either the old or the new test, we can figure out that this is a smart canddiate.


Do you expect something like this to happen?
In fact, my largest worry is that med schools will not know how to properly interpret the new scores. I bet the AAMC spent all this time and money making the new MCAT valid, and then the validity will fly out the window because med schools don't have the same level of expertise. I strongly suspect that when the application pool contains a mix of old-style scores and new-style scores, at least some med schools (but not all med schools) will screw up in a way that systematically favors either the old-style or new-style. This will probably be more or less random. This happens every time the scale on a standardized test changes.

 

[Ismet]

Okay, so I'm guessing the AAMC percentiles will be used extensively and the number (500 vs 510 etc) won't matter as much…but can you comment on this statement made in another thread?



Do you expect something like this to happen?

Percentiles are percentiles. Doesn't matter if you got a 31 or a 510 if the percentile is the same. Not sure what there is to "screw up."

Oops Goro beat me to it 😛

 

[connie95]

Irrational pre-med fear of the unknown. The some people are carrying on about the new test, you'd think it was going to be written in Korean. We're not idiots and neither is AAMC. When someone scores in the 90th %, on either the old or the new test, we can figure out that this is a smart canddiate.


Do you expect something like this to happen?
In fact, my largest worry is that med schools will not know how to properly interpret the new scores. I bet the AAMC spent all this time and money making the new MCAT valid, and then the validity will fly out the window because med schools don't have the same level of expertise. I strongly suspect that when the application pool contains a mix of old-style scores and new-style scores, at least some med schools (but not all med schools) will screw up in a way that systematically favors either the old-style or new-style. This will probably be more or less random. This happens every time the scale on a standardized test changes.

Percentiles are percentiles. Doesn't matter if you got a 31 or a 510 if the percentile is the same. Not sure what there is to "screw up."

Oops Goro beat me to it 😛

Okay thanks! That makes me feel better. Also, have these percentiles been set up yet? Like do you know if a 510 will be at the same percentile as a 31? I looked at the AAMC website and see that 500 is the top of the curve, but idk if that's necessarily a good, competitive score.

 

[Goro]

One won't know until the test is taken and scored.

Okay thanks! That makes me feel better. Also, have these percentiles been set up yet? Like do you know if a 510 will be at the same percentile as a 31? I looked at the AAMC website and see that 500 is the top of the curve, but idk if that's necessarily a good, competitive score.

 

[connie95]

One won't know until the test is taken and scored.

Okay, but once the first April test-takers get their scores back, whatever percentile ranges they are placed at won't change for future 2015 administrations right? If a 500 is 50th percentile on an April exam and 70th percentile on a July exam…that would be unfair.

 

[Ismet]

Okay thanks! That makes me feel better. Also, have these percentiles been set up yet? Like do you know if a 510 will be at the same percentile as a 31? I looked at the AAMC website and see that 500 is the top of the curve, but idk if that's necessarily a good, competitive score.

I just randomly chose those two numbers for an example.

I think this might be part of the reason why it will take a bit longer to score the exams taken in the first few months of the 2015 administration. There will be a lot of statistical analysis going on. There's also data from the trial section that people took this year, not sure how that works in.

 

[connie95]

I just randomly chose those two numbers for an example.

I think this might be part of the reason why it will take a bit longer to score the exams taken in the first few months of the 2015 administration. There will be a lot of statistical analysis going on. There's also data from the trial section that people took this year, not sure how that works in.

Yes, I think so too…also, considering that April test-takers won't get their scores until mid-June, can we still submit our primary apps on June 1st and be considered "early" even if we won't be able to turn in our mcat scores until later? I'm hoping adcoms will take the delay in MCAT scoring into consideration!

 

[Conflagration]

Okay, but once the first April test-takers get their scores back, whatever percentile ranges they are placed at won't change for future 2015 administrations right? If a 500 is 50th percentile on an April exam and 70th percentile on a July exam…that would be unfair.

That's what standardization does; it helps enforce the consistency of scores. The SAT, for example, is a standardized test (an 1800 is at least a standard deviation above the mean of 1500, putting it at around the 65th-70th percentile).

 

[Ismet]

Yes, I think so too…also, considering that April test-takers won't get their scores until mid-June, can we still submit our primary apps on June 1st and be considered "early" even if we won't be able to turn in our mcat scores until later? I'm hoping adcoms will take the delay in MCAT scoring into consideration!

Submitting/being complete in June, July, and even August can be considered early depending on the school and the length of their interview cycle. The delay in MCAT scoring is not going to make that much of a difference.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter if you submit on June 1 or June 17. AMCAS doesn't get released to schools until the end of June. And you don't need the MCAT in order to get verified.

 

[Goro]

I suspect that such a huge swing in scores will exist only in the minds of anxious pre-meds.

A 90th %ile is 90%ile. Again, the AAMC is not composed of idiots; they have field-tested the exam. Data they presented at their annual meeting shows that the new section that has pre-meds vomiting with anxiety is an accurate predictor in several med school disciplines, among then neuroscience, epidemiology and psychiatry.

Okay, but once the first April test-takers get their scores back, whatever percentile ranges they are placed at won't change for future 2015 administrations right? If a 500 is 50th percentile on an April exam and 70th percentile on a July exam…that would be unfair.

 

[Dr.Zoidberg]

Okay, but once the first April test-takers get their scores back, whatever percentile ranges they are placed at won't change for future 2015 administrations right? If a 500 is 50th percentile on an April exam and 70th percentile on a July exam…that would be unfair.

If there was that big of a difference between two administrations, the AAMC would be the worst standardized testing agency in the entire world. It won't happen. They might give a test that gives very different results and looks somewhat different from April's exam, but the scales will be adjusted accordingly.

I think the new scoring system might (might) actually be pretty genius though. By making the numbers relatively large and arbitrary, especially in regions that currently exist as psychological (not actual) "cutoffs" (30 (MD), 35 (top schools), and 40 (genius)), they are effectively taking away some of the bias that goes along with seeing certain scores. If the hypothetical percentiles turn out to be correct, a 510 would be a 32-33, which for the moment, doesn't hold any real significance. A 520 would probably be a 36-37 (going off of the "hypothetical percentiles" that AAMC posted). You look at those numbers and you become far less psychologically susceptible to cutoffs in the ranges where cutoffs are of interest. As it is now, it's hard to imagine adcoms aren't at least a little subconsciously influenced by the aesthetics of 29 vs. 30, or 39 vs. 40.

506 vs. 507 or 29 vs. 30
515 vs. 516 or 34 vs. 35
526 vs. 527 or 39 vs. 40

 

[meowfish6868]

Yes, I think so too…also, considering that April test-takers won't get their scores until mid-June, can we still submit our primary apps on June 1st and be considered "early" even if we won't be able to turn in our mcat scores until later? I'm hoping adcoms will take the delay in MCAT scoring into consideration!

Read through the student FAQ:
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/faqs/

As Ismet already said, your score should be available before your application is made available to schools. I'd personally be a little uneasy about not knowing my score until after submitting my application, but people already do that with the current test. That being said, I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage to April test takers. Prep thoroughly and you'll be okay.

 

[MaxPlancker]

I would actually argue that the same percentile on the new would be more impressive as there is less familiarity and prep materials for the new question types and test approach not to mention the new section on psych/soc. The early administrations of the 2015 MCAT will probably favor the students who are inherently better test takers and/or "smarter." As time goes along, more and more assistance will presumably be there to help out the students who "work hard" and then I predict there will be reasonable percentile equivalence between old and new.

 

[connie95]

I suspect that such a huge swing in scores will exist only in the minds of anxious pre-meds.

A 90th %ile is 90%ile. Again, the AAMC is not composed of idiots; they have field-tested the exam. Data they presented at their annual meeting shows that the new section that has pre-meds vomiting with anxiety is an accurate predictor in several med school disciplines, among then neuroscience, epidemiology and psychiatry.

Thanks for the input! I have no doubt that the changes to the exam are better for future doctors (psychology is really playing a big part in medicine today!), but I guess most of us are scared because we haven't taken the biostats, psych, soc and biochem needed for the new mcat and don't have time to either 🙁 It's frightening because this new MCAT could possibly delay matriculation for juniors that wish to begin med school in 2016...

 

[connie95]

If there was that big of a difference between two administrations, the AAMC would be the worst standardized testing agency in the entire world. It won't happen. They might give a test that gives very different results and looks somewhat different from April's exam, but the scales will be adjusted accordingly.

I think the new scoring system might (might) actually be pretty genius though. By making the numbers relatively large and arbitrary, especially in regions that currently exist as psychological (not actual) "cutoffs" (30 (MD), 35 (top schools), and 40 (genius)), they are effectively taking away some of the bias that goes along with seeing certain scores. If the hypothetical percentiles turn out to be correct, a 510 would be a 32-33, which for the moment, doesn't hold any real significance. A 520 would probably be a 36-37 (going off of the "hypothetical percentiles" that AAMC posted). You look at those numbers and you become far less psychologically susceptible to cutoffs in the ranges where cutoffs are of interest. As it is now, it's hard to imagine adcoms aren't at least a little subconsciously influenced by the aesthetics of 29 vs. 30, or 39 vs. 40.

506 vs. 507 or 29 vs. 30
515 vs. 516 or 34 vs. 35
526 vs. 527 or 39 vs. 40

Considering it's relatively easier to get a 29-30 on the old MCAT (after the usual studying), does that mean that it would be the 'same amount of easy' to reach a 507 score since that could be equivalent to a 30?

 

[connie95]

If there was that big of a difference between two administrations, the AAMC would be the worst standardized testing agency in the entire world. It won't happen. They might give a test that gives very different results and looks somewhat different from April's exam, but the scales will be adjusted accordingly.

I think the new scoring system might (might) actually be pretty genius though. By making the numbers relatively large and arbitrary, especially in regions that currently exist as psychological (not actual) "cutoffs" (30 (MD), 35 (top schools), and 40 (genius)), they are effectively taking away some of the bias that goes along with seeing certain scores. If the hypothetical percentiles turn out to be correct, a 510 would be a 32-33, which for the moment, doesn't hold any real significance. A 520 would probably be a 36-37 (going off of the "hypothetical percentiles" that AAMC posted). You look at those numbers and you become far less psychologically susceptible to cutoffs in the ranges where cutoffs are of interest. As it is now, it's hard to imagine adcoms aren't at least a little subconsciously influenced by the aesthetics of 29 vs. 30, or 39 vs. 40.

506 vs. 507 or 29 vs. 30
515 vs. 516 or 34 vs. 35
526 vs. 527 or 39 vs. 40

I would actually argue that the same percentile on the new would be more impressive as there is less familiarity and prep materials for the new question types and test approach not to mention the new section on psych/soc. The early administrations of the 2015 MCAT will probably favor the students who are inherently better test takers and/or "smarter." As time goes along, more and more assistance will presumably be there to help out the students who "work hard" and then I predict there will be reasonable percentile equivalence between old and new.

So are you guys saying this new scoring system will actually be an advantage to MCAT 2015 test-takers?

 

[Lucca]

So are you guys saying this new scoring system will actually be an advantage to MCAT 2015 test-takers?

I think it will help us sleep better at night. I do not know how much of a role small MCAT differences (29 v 30, 39 v 40) play in the admissions process but knowing what I know about the human unconscious I'm sure it plays some role and it's nice to be left to %'s and that is that.

 

[connie95]

I think it will help us sleep better at night. I do not know how much of a role small MCAT differences (29 v 30, 39 v 40) play in the admissions process but knowing what I know about the human unconscious I'm sure it plays some role and it's nice to be left to %'s and that is that.

Ohhh I see what you're saying now! Because the new MCAT is judged entirely based on percentiles rather than exact numbers, it would be less of a difference btwn an equivalent new MCAT score of 29 vs 30…yes I think you're right, a 29 is automatically seen as less favorable than a 30 overall (although they're only one point in difference) In the case of the new MCAT, a 29 vs 30 will likely fall into the same percentile range, so they are considered the same...

 

[Lucca]

Ohhh I see what you're saying now! Because the new MCAT is judged entirely based on percentiles rather than exact numbers, it would be less of a difference btwn an equivalent new MCAT score of 29 vs 30…yes I think you're right, a 29 is automatically seen as less favorable than a 30 overall (although they're only one point in difference) In the case of the new MCAT, a 29 vs 30 will likely fall into the same percentile range, so they are considered the same...

Yup! I dont think 2015 takers have to worry too much. The very first batch will probably have to worry since they will take the first official exam. I think the exam length is really what is going to be tough for us. That being said, board exams are longer from what I hear so maybe it's good practice 🙂

 

[MaxPlancker]

The naturally better test takers will have an edge with the 2015 MCAT until more resources and test familiarity are made available. I wouldn't think the test would disadvantage anyone since it will likely be evaluated on percentiles. However, for the small group of applicants who do well with minimal prep and do well in the face of new things, they will almost certainly be at an advantage with their score from the new MCAT.

Edit: For example, let's pretend that there are 100 questions on the current MCAT and 100 questions on the old MCAT. The average applicant devotes somewhere around 300+ hours of studying to help nail down content and very importantly, to become familiar with the test in terms of format, strategy, timing, etc. Let's say that all that prep gets that person a 65/100 questions correct on the current MCAT. If we say for the sake of argument that the average will be 50/100 questions correct, this applicant would score in the upper half of the score distribution.

Now, let's say that the same applicant takes the new MCAT. Well, with the current level of familiarity with the test and the available resources, the average applicant will not be able to do the following as well for the new version: 1) acclimate to the test format, whether it be in the way questions are worded/asked or timing/edurance etc 2) develop a sense of strategy and intuition for the test itself after seeing problems upon problems from previous administrations of the exam. I'd say that as far as content review goes, there shouldn't be too much problem--content is content and the guidelines for topics presented are available from AAMC. Perhaps the students who rely on prep books to really break down the material for understanding will suffer marginally.

Anyhow, when this applicant takes the new MCAT, he/she will likely perform lower (perhaps 60/100) due primarily to the lack of comfort with the new test format and strategy. That is, one might miss questions not due to insufficient content knowledge. However, if this happens to almost all applicants, then they will not fare any better or worse than they would on the current exam because the playing field is LEVEL. The "problem" comes up when you consider that not everyone preps equally for the MCAT and some people are naturally better test-takers (80/100 on both current and old). I have no solid proof but I'd bet that most applicants who score well put in a good amount of effort studying. The few who are good at picking up on new things and reacting well will do relatively the same on either exam. Now, remember that the average applicant will likely do slightly poorer on the new exam. So by performing equally as well, those few applicants actually see that they do BETTER in terms of percentiles when compared to the average applicant who takes it.

Now, I don't think this should really be a large point of concern...if the applicant is able to adjust readily in the face of new things, then kudos to them, right? Basically, the exam will favor the adaptability and natural ability more heavily at the beginning when there are less resources.

 

[Ismet]

Ohhh I see what you're saying now! Because the new MCAT is judged entirely based on percentiles rather than exact numbers, it would be less of a difference btwn an equivalent new MCAT score of 29 vs 30…yes I think you're right, a 29 is automatically seen as less favorable than a 30 overall (although they're only one point in difference) In the case of the new MCAT, a 29 vs 30 will likely fall into the same percentile range, so they are considered the same...

The difference between a 29 and 30 is really no different than the difference between 30 and 31. The old MCAT still reports percentiles, and we still see them, but we're just used to what number they correlate to.

 

[Lucca]

The naturally better test takers will have an edge with the 2015 MCAT until more resources and test familiarity are made available. I wouldn't think the test would disadvantage anyone since it will likely be evaluated on percentiles. However, for the small group of applicants who do well with minimal prep and do well in the face of new things, they will almost certainly be at an advantage with their score from the new MCAT.

Edit: For example, let's pretend that there are 100 questions on the current MCAT and 100 questions on the old MCAT. The average applicant devotes somewhere around 300+ hours of studying to help nail down content and very importantly, to become familiar with the test in terms of format, strategy, timing, etc. Let's say that all that prep gets that person a 65/100 questions correct on the current MCAT. If we say for the sake of argument that the average will be 50/100 questions correct, this applicant would score in the upper half of the score distribution.

Now, let's say that the same applicant takes the new MCAT. Well, with the current level of familiarity with the test and the available resources, the average applicant will not be able to do the following as well for the new version: 1) acclimate to the test format, whether it be in the way questions are worded/asked or timing/edurance etc 2) develop a sense of strategy and intuition for the test itself after seeing problems upon problems from previous administrations of the exam. I'd say that as far as content review goes, there shouldn't be too much problem--content is content and the guidelines for topics presented are available from AAMC. Perhaps the students who rely on prep books to really break down the material for understanding will suffer marginally.

Anyhow, when this applicant takes the new MCAT, he/she will likely perform lower (perhaps 60/100) due primarily to the lack of comfort with the new test format and strategy. That is, one might miss questions not due to insufficient content knowledge. However, if this happens to almost all applicants, then they will not fare any better or worse than they would on the current exam because the playing field is LEVEL. The "problem" comes up when you consider that not everyone preps equally for the MCAT and some people are naturally better test-takers (80/100 on both current and old). I have no solid proof but I'd bet that most applicants who score well put in a good amount of effort studying. The few who are good at picking up on new things and reacting well will do relatively the same on either exam. Now, remember that the average applicant will likely do slightly poorer on the new exam. So by performing equally as well, those few applicants actually see that they do BETTER in terms of percentiles when compared to the average applicant who takes it.

Now, I don't think this should really be a large point of concern...if the applicant is able to adjust readily in the face of new things, then kudos to them, right? Basically, the exam will favor the adaptability and natural ability more heavily at the beginning when there are less resources.

This is a pretty solid picture of what it's going to be like. The only thing left to consider is that "the emphasis will be on the center of the curve rather then the rightmost third" according to the AAMC. Whatever that means, I'm still not sure what they are trying to get at here. With 500 being the center.

 

[gyngyn]

This is a pretty solid picture of what it's going to be like. The only thing left to consider is that "the emphasis will be on the center of the curve rather then the rightmost third" according to the AAMC. Whatever that means, I'm still not sure what they are trying to get at here. With 500 being the center.

The AAMC has consistently maintained that the MCAT should not be used as as a marker for excellence but rather competence. They are always emphasizing holistic evaluation. They would prefer that, after meeting a level of competence consistent with success at a particular school, candidates be considered on other parameters of excellence.

They have overtly stated that the change in scale is intended to further this goal.

 

[Lucca]

The AAMC has consistently maintained that the MCAT should not be used as as a marker for excellence but rather competence. They are always emphasizing holistic evaluation. They would prefer that, after meeting a level of competence consistent with success at a particular school, candidates be considered on other parameters of excellence.

They have overtly stated that the change in scale is intended to further this goal.

This much I understand. However, it should still be the case that a 95% score will be more favorable than a 50% score given that the schools have the luxury of being as selective as they choose. Or am I misunderstanding?

 

[gyngyn]

This much I understand. However, it should still be the case that a 95% score will be more favorable than a 50% score given that the schools have the luxury of being as selective as they choose. Or am I misunderstanding?

Of course, you are right! I'm a monkey's uncle if this changes anything.

The AAMC is still doing their level best to shake things up.

 

[MaxPlancker]

I think the biggest concern for 2015 MCATers would be how closely the equivalent percentiles will be evaluated. The 2013 AAMC (https://www.aamc.org/students/download/361080/data/combined13.pdf.pdf) shows roughly a 5% percentile difference between a 34 and a 37. Yet for many top tier schools, the 34 is considered "outa mah houseeee" for most and 37-38 seems to be the magical number for those with above average (but not crazy) EC's. I would imagine that 93rd percentile on the new MCAT, especially the first few test dates, would be killing it...but if you compare percentiles then the 93rd is "only" a 34 which means that even if they may have scored a 37 on the old MCAT, the new testers are at a disadvantage.

This also brings up a funny thought...is the difference of 5 percentile points (likely 3-5 questions meaning just one slight mistake or a bad day takes you from top tier competitive down to mid-tier) THAT indicative of how much more competent an applicant is?? Clearly despite what the AAMC says, the whole "holistic evaluation after a certain level of competence" idea is not true IMHO.

 

[gyngyn]

Clearly despite what the AAMC says, the whole "holistic evaluation after a certain level of competence" idea is not true IMHO.

Shocking!

 

[Lucca]

Of course, you are right! I'm a monkey's uncle if this changes anything.

The AAMC is still doing their level best to shake things up.

I thought as much. I wish it was just competence and then how good of a doc you might make. Maybe if there weren't tens of thousands of applicants.

 

[gyngyn]

I thought as much. I wish it was just competence and then how good of a doc you might make. Maybe if there weren't tens of thousands of applicants.

We all agree. Sadly, reality differs. Partly perhaps, because we have no "test" for altruism or integrity, or any of the other qualities we want in our students. We do have an excellent standardized test for BCPM...
A lot of medicine is like this. We tend to diagnose and treat the things that we have a test for.

 

[connie95]

The AAMC has consistently maintained that the MCAT should not be used as as a marker for excellence but rather competence. They are always emphasizing holistic evaluation. They would prefer that, after meeting a level of competence consistent with success at a particular school, candidates be considered on other parameters of excellence.

They have overtly stated that the change in scale is intended to further this goal.

But since the AAMC is asking medical schools to focus on the "top of the curve, " doesn't that mean that a 500 should be considered a good score? I don't get why it would be equivalent to a 25 because clearly that cannot be the "top" for medical schools.

This is a pretty solid picture of what it's going to be like. The only thing left to consider is that "the emphasis will be on the center of the curve rather then the rightmost third" according to the AAMC. Whatever that means, I'm still not sure what they are trying to get at here. With 500 being the center.

 

[gyngyn]

But since the AAMC is asking medical schools to focus on the "top of the curve, " doesn't that mean that a 500 should be considered a good score? I don't get why it would be equivalent to a 25 because clearly that cannot be the "top" for medical schools.

They are not telling us what a good score is, just making it very clear where the central tendency is located. If you ask even the most veteran admissions officer which current MCAT score is associated with the 5oth% of test takers, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they can't tell you.

 

[700003]

We all agree. Sadly, reality differs. Partly perhaps, because we have no "test" for altruism or integrity, or any of the other qualities we want in our students. We do have an excellent standardized test for BCPM...
A lot of medicine is like this. We tend to diagnose and treat the things that we have a test for.

I really wish there was another way to evaluate students like this! I, for one, will have to take the new MCAT and well, since it's new, my score is not as predictable…it's upsetting that I may be shunned from the top schools and programs that I really want because of this uncertainty. Everything else in my app is solid.

Do you think there is a slight chance that adcoms might give some bonus points for applicants that have taken the new MCAT? I mean, it does have a lot of material that is deemed relevant to medicine right? Obviously, schools wanted us to understand psych, socio and biochem. Compared to the thousands of students that rushed to avoid it, wouldn't the brave souls that took the new exam be given some sort of consideration?

 

[gyngyn]

I really wish there was another way to evaluate students like this! I, for one, will have to take the new MCAT and well, since it's new, my score is not as predictable…it's upsetting that I may be shunned from the top schools and programs that I really want because of this uncertainty. Everything else in my app is solid.

Do you think there is a slight chance that adcoms might give some bonus points for applicants that have taken the new MCAT? I mean, it does have a lot of material that is deemed relevant to medicine right? Obviously, schools wanted us to understand psych, socio and biochem. Compared to the thousands of students that rushed to avoid it, wouldn't the brave souls that took the new exam be given some sort of consideration?

I know no one who believes that the new topics will help us identify students with the non-cognitive qualities we are looking for. We will continue to look for them and applicants will continue to try to show us that they possess them. The test does not purport to measure them, though.

 

[MaxPlancker]

I really wish there was another way to evaluate students like this! I, for one, will have to take the new MCAT and well, since it's new, my score is not as predictable…it's upsetting that I may be shunned from the top schools and programs that I really want because of this uncertainty. Everything else in my app is solid.

Do you think there is a slight chance that adcoms might give some bonus points for applicants that have taken the new MCAT? I mean, it does have a lot of material that is deemed relevant to medicine right? Obviously, schools wanted us to understand psych, socio and biochem. Compared to the thousands of students that rushed to avoid it, wouldn't the brave souls that took the new exam be given some sort of consideration?

If I were an adcom, I would certainly prefer to give that kind of consideration (I do not know the feasibility of it). However, the reality is that the process is an overwhelming amount of work, and I doubt the scores will get considered much beyond percentiles. It is dangerous to say okay this percentile +- 5 percentiles is the same because with the old MCAT a 34 and a 37 are less than 5% apart.

 

[gyngyn]

In truth, all schools are looking for the best students in their target metric range and mission. They are using holistic evaluation within their comfort zone. This inevitably means that applicants need to do their due diligence regarding the assessment of the comfort zone of each school to which they apply. The comfort zones are available in the school's self description and acceptance and matriculant metrics.

 

[connie95]

They are not telling us what a good score is, just making it very clear where the central tendency is located. If you ask even the most veteran admissions officer which MCAT score is associated with the 5oth% of test takers, I'll bet dollars to doughnuts they can't tell you.

Okay thanks! God I wish I could talk to an actual MCAT psychometrician right now…that would really clear things up

 

[Lucca]

Okay thanks! God I wish I could talk to an actual MCAT psychometrician right now…that would really clear things up

All we can do is do as best as we can. Trying to analyze the new exam is only fun when you've already taken it; otherwise it is just extra stress.

 

[gyngyn]

Okay thanks! God I wish I could talk to an actual MCAT psychometrician right now…that would really clear things up

I wouldn't count on it!

 

[Goro]

Not a snowball's chance in hell.

Do you think there is a slight chance that adcoms might give some bonus points for applicants that have taken the new MCAT?

 

[alpinism]

Read through the student FAQ:
https://www.aamc.org/students/applying/mcat/mcat2015/faqs/

As Ismet already said, your score should be available before your application is made available to schools. I'd personally be a little uneasy about not knowing my score until after submitting my application, but people already do that with the current test. That being said, I wouldn't say it's a disadvantage to April test takers. Prep thoroughly and you'll be okay.

Can't believe the new MCAT is $300.

It was $230 when I took it in 2010 and I though that was outrageous.

 

[connie95]

Can't believe the new MCAT is $300.

It was $230 when I took it in 2010 and I though that was outrageous.

But AAMC is giving $150 gift cards to the first group of April-May students so I guess that helps somewhat