[2016-2017] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

[doggydog]

When programs say they require 3 letters, is this for an interview or overall before matching? I'll have 1 SLOE and 1 LOR, but the 2nd SLOE wont be in until mid October.

You need at least one SLOE by September 15th in order to be considered for early interview invitations. By the time programs begin to finalize their rank list (usually early February), you should meet the requirement of three letters of recommendation; at least one of those needs to be a SLOE (preferable if you have two).

I asked this question on the ERAS thread last year and the consensus (based on the experience of last year's applicants) was that you do not need all three letters by September 15th or even October 1st in order to be invited early into the application cycle.

Like 15 posts up.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

When programs say they require 3 letters, is this for an interview or overall before matching? I'll have 1 SLOE and 1 LOR, but the 2nd SLOE wont be in until mid October.

This is the exact situation I will be in. I asked my adviser about it, and he told me that getting a fourth letter would be overkill. It's also been asked earlier in this thread (by me).

3 letters for an interview invite.

My understanding is this is true at around 20% of programs, which typically require 2 SLOEs prior to an interview.

 

[mega_colon]

This is the exact situation I will be in. I asked my adviser about it, and he told me that getting a fourth letter would be overkill. It's also been asked earlier in this thread (by me).

My understanding is this is true at around 20% of programs, which typically require 2 SLOEs prior to an interview.

This was covered earlier, roughly 80% of programs will interview with 2 letters provided one is a SLOE. Atleast i hope so since that is my situation

 

[Fox800]

This is the exact situation I will be in. I asked my adviser about it, and he told me that getting a fourth letter would be overkill. It's also been asked earlier in this thread (by me).



My understanding is this is true at around 20% of programs, which typically require 2 SLOEs prior to an interview.

Most places want 3 letters for your application to be "complete", with at least 2 of those being SLOEs.

 

[doggydog]

ERAS didn't crash.

Had to go recheck my entire app at 9:02AM because it was telling me about all of these non-required fields I had left blank.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

I don't have any interviews. Looks like I'm SOAPing.

 

[doggydog]

I don't have any interviews. Looks like I'm SOAPing.

I got a couple of interviews by calling the PD at home in the past ten minutes. Give it a try.

 

[Bojack Horseman]

MUSC is the big one I'm aware of

I didn't apply there last year bc I only had 3 letters. Turns out its not a strict requirement as a few of my friends applied with only 3 letters and got interviews nonetheless.

 

[EM2Be2017]

.

 

[dadaddadaBATMAN]

I haven't been able to get a clear answer on Step 2 CK. Assuming your application is otherwise strong, will not having a score for CK decrease interview offers? Right now I have Step 1 265, all honors during third year, AOA, in the top 10 of my class, one honor from EM away and high pass from another very reputable program. I don't want to hurt my application by not having the score, but it would be nice to take it towards the end of October.

The general rule I heard was that if you're greater than 240 or so, you could hold off (although you still want it in before ranking).

You may decrease from 99% of programs wanting to interview you to 98%. The horror

 

[alpinism]

I haven't been able to get a clear answer on Step 2 CK. Assuming your application is otherwise strong, will not having a score for CK decrease interview offers? Right now I have Step 1 265, all honors during third year, AOA, in the top 10 of my class, one honor from EM away and high pass from another very reputable program. I don't want to hurt my application by not having the score, but it would be nice to take it towards the end of October.

The first one always hurts the most :/

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

I haven't been able to get a clear answer on Step 2 CK. Assuming your application is otherwise strong, will not having a score for CK decrease interview offers? Right now I have Step 1 265, all honors during third year, AOA, in the top 10 of my class, one honor from EM away and high pass from another very reputable program. I don't want to hurt my application by not having the score, but it would be nice to take it towards the end of October.

No.

 

[asdf1192]

I haven't been able to get a clear answer on Step 2 CK. Assuming your application is otherwise strong, will not having a score for CK decrease interview offers? Right now I have Step 1 265, all honors during third year, AOA, in the top 10 of my class, one honor from EM away and high pass from another very reputable program. I don't want to hurt my application by not having the score, but it would be nice to take it towards the end of October.

Jesus Christ. Anyway, now for a serious question. How many programs does a guy with two HP SLOEs need to apply to?

 

[alpinism]

Jesus Christ. Anyway, now for a serious question. How many programs does a guy with two HP SLOEs need to apply to?

Depends on the rest of your application and where you plan on applying.

220 step 1, 50th percentile class rank, average ECs, and want to end up on the west coast? You should be thinking 50 or more.

250 step 1, 75th percentile class rank, great ECs, and want to end up in the midwest? You could get away with 25 or less.

 

[EM2Be2017]

Thank you guys for your help. I know I sound neurotic, but I just want to do everything right.

 

[doggydog]

What's the deal with Hofstra Northwell and Icahn at Mt. Sinai?

I applied to both already and now they are saying they aren't accepting applications for 2017.

 

[EMhawkeye]

What's the deal with Hofstra Northwell and Icahn at Mt. Sinai?

I applied to both already and now they are saying they aren't accepting applications for 2017.

I think for MT Sinai beth isreal is because the hospital is beginning to shut down and the residents are going to be absorbed into other MT Sinai programs.
IDK what's going on with Hofstra LIJ. I'm hoping it's a clerical error.
There are a couple of programs I know of that will be in the 2017 pending final approval here in the next 3 weeks that aren't on the list either.

 

[swissian9989]

I think for MT Sinai beth isreal is because the hospital is beginning to shut down and the residents are going to be absorbed into other MT Sinai programs.
IDK what's going on with Hofstra LIJ. I'm hoping it's a clerical error.
There are a couple of programs I know of that will be in the 2017 pending final approval here in the next 3 weeks that aren't on the list either.

You're right about Beth Israel. LIJ and NS are merging into one residency and I guess they're going with North Shore as the name. Still the same number of spots so it's gonna be a big program.

 

[doggydog]

Why do course directors wait until the last possible moment to upload SLOEs?

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

Why do course directors wait until the last possible moment to upload SLOEs?

Or they tell you it's all good because programs won't look at your application before MSPEs, but last year's ERAS thread indicates they sent out interviews a week after submission.

 

[alexalex]

Very unlikely my second SLOE will be in by the 15th. I am lucky if it's there by October 1st. The third won't be in til mid-October. Am I screwed in getting any early interview invites? Should i be in panic mode and get a 4th letter from whoever?

 

[doggydog]

Very unlikely my second SLOE will be in by the 15th. I am lucky if it's there by October 1st. The third won't be in til mid-October. Am I screwed in getting any early interview invites? Should i be in panic mode and get a 4th letter from whoever?

This has been discussed at least five times now.

1 SLOE needed for interviews
2 needed for matching

 

[alexalex]

This has been discussed at least five times now.

1 SLOE needed for interviews
2 needed for matching

even if I have no other letters from anyone else?
thanks

 

[racerwad]

Very unlikely my second SLOE will be in by the 15th. I am lucky if it's there by October 1st. The third won't be in til mid-October. Am I screwed in getting any early interview invites? Should i be in panic mode and get a 4th letter from whoever?

A "4th letter from whomever" won't help, unless it is a legit SLOE. When the apps are reviewed, that is all that is considered (at least by me and others at my program). It is possible that you might miss out on the very first wave of invites, but I wouldn't stress out about it. The bulk of invites don't go out until after ACEP (I'm not sure if the PDs have agreed to not review until then this year like last) and usually, the first wave are for folks that are either known to the program or are so exceptional, they don't need to worry about how many SLOEs they have by 9/15.

Relax, things will work out. After the Match, the folks who don't match aren't the ones who just had a SLOE come in some random amount of time after ERAS open - they either had none at all or had other red flags.

 

[mega_colon]

I asked this to program leadership and the response i got was that after filtering by numbers/grades they review all applicants regardless of the number of letters.

 

[doggydog]

A "4th letter from whomever" won't help, unless it is a legit SLOE. When the apps are reviewed, that is all that is considered (at least by me and others at my program).

I get why this is the case, but people work hard to get good non-SLOE letters. It's disappointing that they won't even get looked at.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

I get why this is the case, but people work hard to get good non-SLOE letters. It's disappointing that they won't even get looked at.

Although this sentiment is common, it is not universal. My home program director doesn't subscribe to the "only SLOE" policy. UK's PD has voiced similar opinions on ALiEM.

 

[racerwad]

I get why this is the case, but people work hard to get good non-SLOE letters. It's disappointing that they won't even get looked at.

I get where you are coming from and perhaps I should have been more clear. I (and I assume everyone else) read everything in every app - it is just easier to understand the SLOE from Institution X than a random physician LOR. I certainly consider other LORs, but not as much as SLOEs. I agree that you have earned them, but they aren't what programs have said they wanted, so their utility is limited. EM programs have made it pretty clear that SLOEs are what we are looking for. I think another way to look at these great LORs you guys have been earning along the way as independent predictors of your success in the future - alone, they don't do much, but rather they serve as markers of the positive things you have learned along the way and that the culmination (at least in this specialty) is the SLOE, which should reflect all the other stuff in other LORs, but in an EM context.

 

[doggydog]

Getting more and more excited by the day about getting no interviews.

 

[EMedGrrl]

What's the deal with Hofstra Northwell and Icahn at Mt. Sinai?

I applied to both already and now they are saying they aren't accepting applications for 2017.

The North Shore / LIJ unified program, now Hofstra Northwell, just got approved (it's 3 years - N. Shore was 3, LIJ was 4). If you applied before the program got approved you may just need to go back into ERAS and select it again as the new one.

 

[Frazier]

Getting more and more excited by the day about getting no interviews.

 

[KinesiologyNerd]

How nice of AAMC to send the video interview gift cards this morning. Crazy coincidence I'm sure.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Ok so let's talk board scores for my DO fam outchea. What y'all get and what does a successful EM applicant need to match? and are clinical grades in first two years muy importante to correlate well to a 230+ USMLE score?

 

[racerwad]

Ok so let's talk board scores for my DO fam outchea. What y'all get and what does a successful EM applicant need to match? and are clinical grades in first two years muy importante to correlate well to a 230+ USMLE score?

Are you serious? There are dozens of threads that address this topic. Charting Outcomes is a little outdated now, but I the new one comes out shortly; that is going to be your best source of objective data. As to grades - I am not sure what you mean about the importance of grades "correlating" to USMLE. USMLE trumps just about everything, except maybe performance on EM auditions; I would imagine a failure or poor (relative to the other students there) grade would not do wonders for one's application.

 

[Frazier]

Ok so let's talk board scores for my DO fam outchea. What y'all get and what does a successful EM applicant need to match? and are clinical grades in first two years muy importante to correlate well to a 230+ USMLE score?

I'm interested in why you're interested given the recent shyt you were talking about EM's future.

LOL yeah that burnout doe. If you wanna work weekends for 12 hours overnight dealing with pill seekers and all. sure. I mean, somebody's gotta do it.

These FM dudes are done with their office work at 5. No weekends either. Call a few times a month.

Oh.. and please do not look at the hourly wages they are giving today.

EMs and hospitals will be taken over by management companies that will take a cut out of your paycheck each month. It's already happening. I don't get why med students don't look at the business component. You are an employee. You don't own anything as an EM doc. You are replaceable and your salary and hourly wages are not set in stone. You get what hospitals offer. You feel like your service is worth $300/ hour?

Kick rocks homie. Deal with the $150 lol

THAT PA working under you is probably making a good amount less but is dealing with less bull**** than you are.

But whatever.. all you excited EM trauma folks... y'all do you.

 

[deleted245139]

The USMLE plus letters gets your foot in the door.
Traditionally, SLOE/LOR > clerkship performance > USMLE/COMLEX>>>>> the rest

For rank: Interpersonal skills/interviewing are most important, then bundled with the above.

This 2014 survey is a bit outdated, but at that time, 104/15x programs was ~66% response rate. Take it for what it is, as a guide.

That said, those clerkships and LORs are VERY important.

 

[doggydog]

It's shocking that they can glean so much from 4 fifteen minute interviews.

 

[mega_colon]

It's shocking that they can glean so much from 4 fifteen minute interviews.

Even more shocking that the SLOEs mean so much when theyre predicated on basically speed dating encounters with different attendings spread out over the course of a month.

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

I'm interested in why you're interested given the recent shyt you were talking about EM's future.

And...


Your point?

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Are you serious? There are dozens of threads that address this topic. Charting Outcomes is a little outdated now, but I the new one comes out shortly; that is going to be your best source of objective data. As to grades - I am not sure what you mean about the importance of grades "correlating" to USMLE. USMLE trumps just about everything, except maybe performance on EM auditions; I would imagine a failure or poor (relative to the other students there) grade would not do wonders for one's application.

Sorry. Should have elaborated. How well does performance in classes in your first two years correlate to STEP 1 scores... especially for DO folks.

And what were some of your guys' scores like for those who had to take both COMLEX and STEP?

Appreciate the replies fellas!

 

[CliveStaples]

Even more shocking that the SLOEs mean so much when theyre predicated on basically speed dating encounters with different attendings spread out over the course of a month.

Sounds like emergency medicine to me. Make good, quick impressions - we don't get much time for our patients to buy into our diagnostic/treatment plans either.

 

[MackandBlues]

Sorry. Should have elaborated. How well does performance in classes in your first two years correlate to STEP 1 scores... especially for DO folks.

And what were some of your guys' scores like for those who had to take both COMLEX and STEP?

Appreciate the replies fellas!

Correlates very well between grades and board scores at my school. Of course a chance for an outlier.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[DetectiveAlonzo]

Correlates very well between grades and board scores at my school. Of course a chance for an outlier.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Are you at a DO program?

 

[MackandBlues]

Are you at a DO program?

Yes


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[Frazier]

Goodluck EM bros.

Hopefully seeing you all in the interview thread soon!

 

[WildEMDoc]

Is is typical for schools not to upload your deans letter until October 1st?

 

[doggydog]

Is is typical for schools not to upload your deans letter until October 1st?

Programs can't even see it until 10/1, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[EMhawkeye]

They can absolutely see apps right now. Many programs however wait until 10/1 to download them from ERAS due to that being when people's deans letter comes out.
This is something that varies from program to program. Also varies by specialty. Family med programs usually download the first day 9/15. Some internal programs wait until 10/1 as well.

 

[doggydog]

They can absolutely see apps right now. Many programs however wait until 10/1 to download them from ERAS due to that being when people's deans letter comes out.
This is something that varies from program to program. Also varies by specialty. Family med programs usually download the first day 9/15. Some internal programs wait until 10/1 as well.

I'm talking about the dean's letter, brah, not the application.

 

[askamsky51]

.