[2017-2018] Emergency Medicine Application Thread

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I was recently told that it is tough to get away rotations in Texas if you are out of state. Is that true?

n=1, but I had no problem getting an away in Texas even though I have no relation to the state.

I also have at least 5-6 friends who had no issues getting interviews in Texas even without having any ties to the state/not doing aways there, so I kind of get the feeling that the "Texas is impossible to break into" thing is more true for medical school than it is for residency. (Although obviously if you are interested in a particular area/region, it's still a good idea to try to do an away there.)

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n=2. I did three aways in Texas, zero ties.
 
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Also, I have my step 2 CS scheduled for early september, which is going to be during an away rotation (my home school has an awful early CS deadline). Since EM rotations are done by shifts, would it be possible to schedule my shifts in such a way that I can take 1.5 days off to go take the exam?

Each of my EM rotations gave us our choice of a certain number of vacation days so yes.


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Thanks for answering all my questions, I'm a bit confused on this process. I'm trying to do two aways in addition to my home rotation, and having trouble with the 2nd one because of dates. long story short, I applied to two aways a bit late (one by 5 days, one by 2 days) because I wasnt originally looking at them. I applied for september dates. Am I not going to get either of those two?
I don't think you're hosed because of 2-5 days. They'll look at your application. Good luck!
 
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Hey guys, any idea of when we should be hearing back from aways we applied to? Thought I'd hear back from several I applied to but still no word yet..
 
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Hey guys, any idea of when we should be hearing back from aways we applied to? Thought I'd hear back from several I applied to but still no word yet..

Ya I was flabbergasted by the whole VSAS process. I applied to about 15 EM aways. A couple of them responded quickly but most of them didn't respond for months or even at all. Half of the programs didn't even respond to me at all or denied me way AFTER the date I requested to rotate. Such a waste of money. I had much more success just calling the program and inquiring about a rotation.
 
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Hey guys, any idea of when we should be hearing back from aways we applied to? Thought I'd hear back from several I applied to but still no word yet..

You probably won't hear back till May from most places.

Also as stated above many will never even let you know that you've been rejected.
 
Ya I was flabbergasted by the whole VSAS process. I applied to about 15 EM aways. A couple of them responded quickly but most of them didn't respond for months or even at all. Half of the programs didn't even respond to me at all or denied me way AFTER the date I requested to rotate. Such a waste of money. I had much more success just calling the program and inquiring about a rotation.

This. VSAS is such a waste of money. I secured most of my auditions via email and saved two spots for programs I wanted that were on VSAS. Wish I had just done all email and avoided VSAS entirely.
 
Yeah its a pretty ridiculous system. I mean, if it were free it would be fine. Or only charging a fee if a rotation is granted. IDK. Its just silly to charge someone a fee, not get back to them in a timely manner, and then reject them. I'm just sticking to the system of "email us if you want a rotation" system. No fees, so I don't feel guilty if we can't accommodate someone.
 
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If you could only take Nov-Dec off or Jan, which month would be best to take off for interview season? The other month would be used for an elective that has about 3-4 shifts a week. Thanks all.

I had the vast majority of my interviews in November. Most places don't have interviews in the 2nd half of December, and my number of interviews scheduled thinned out in January (I think I only had 2 in January).
 
If you could only take Nov-Dec off or Jan, which month would be best to take off for interview season? The other month would be used for an elective that has about 3-4 shifts a week. Thanks all.

Agree with Cinclus. Busiest months for me were Nov and Dec. Nov was pretty full and Dec had the last week and a half-ish blocked off for holidays. Then had like 3 more interviews in Jan.
 
Since it seems that November is the busiest month for interviews, would an audition rotation from ~10/22-11/16 be too late or interfere with interviews? I already have 2 auditions setup so I should have 2 SLOEs by October 1, but another program I'm really interested in only has availability during that block (or later) and I'm thinking about taking it.
 
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Since it seems that November is the busiest month for interviews, would an audition rotation from ~10/22-11/16 be too late or interfere with interviews? I already have 2 auditions setup so I should have 2 SLOEs by October 1, but another program I'm really interested in only has availability during that block (or later) and I'm thinking about taking it.

If those 2 auditions are in addition to a home rotation I feel like that is wholly unnecessary unless this place is #1 on your list for a very very very good reason. You can likely backload most of your interviews but this would definitely make it harder as well.
 
If you could only take Nov-Dec off or Jan, which month would be best to take off for interview season? The other month would be used for an elective that has about 3-4 shifts a week. Thanks all.

I took December off and scheduled most of my interviews then. I think I had 3 in november, 3 in january, and 7 in december.
 
Thanks all for the reply. I have been thinking a lot whether it is worth it to do the audition rotation in January. I don't want to have any regrets, but at the same time, wondering how much it could even help to match at that institution in the end.

Are 3 SLOE's by Oct/Nov ideal, or can it be just 2 SLOE's and 1 EM LOR?
1 SLOE by September 15, 2nd SLOE ideally by October 1, anything more than that is a bonus but should ideally be there before November 1.

If you go to the application spreadsheet linked on the first page of this thread, click the IV Offers tab, and scroll all the way to the bottom, you can see a chart counting up the number of interviews received on each date. Interview invites peaked in mid-October. It's unclear how many of those interview invites went out to people with only one SLOE, but I'm willing to bet that programs prefer to have both SLOEs in front of them before they take a chance on an applicant.

After November 1, interview invites declined pretty precipitously, making me think that a third SLOE received after that time was unlikely to have made a difference in obtaining interviews. Maybe it helped people get ranked more highly, but there's no way to know.
 
Any brave soul want to take up the mantle of being the next @doggydog/@surely and make a new thread for the 2018-2019 application year? Promise to still answer questions and give advice, it just seems weird to keep this thread alive post-match.
 
Thanks all for the reply. I have been thinking a lot whether it is worth it to do the audition rotation in January. I don't want to have any regrets, but at the same time, wondering how much it could even help to match at that institution in the end.

Are 3 SLOE's by Oct/Nov ideal, or can it be just 2 SLOE's and 1 EM LOR?

I got pretty much all of my interviews with 2 SLOEs and 1 LOR. I dont even know if my 3rd SLOE that I uploaded later made any difference
 
Just to add to what the poster above me had said: I did a home and away in July/August, resulting in two SLOEs and then had a LOR from an IM APD. I had no problem getting interview offers. If you’re really interested in a place, doing an away there could be really helpful. Just be aware that it’s a month-long interview. So, it could raise or plummet your stock depending on how you perform.
 
Since it seems that November is the busiest month for interviews, would an audition rotation from ~10/22-11/16 be too late or interfere with interviews? I already have 2 auditions setup so I should have 2 SLOEs by October 1, but another program I'm really interested in only has availability during that block (or later) and I'm thinking about taking it.

I rotated at the program I ended up matching at during that exact time chunk. The only interview I went on that month was at that program, but I'm sure I could've gone on 1-2 more had I asked. I'm a DO student so I did four auditions since I don't have a home program, knowing the second two were primarily month-long interviews at what would be my top two choices. I think if you are set with your 2 SLOEs by October 1, then you're sitting pretty and can do that audition to get face-time with the program since you are interested in it.
 
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Thanks all for the advice. I am a DO student without a home program so 2 aways is necessary. I think we can do up to 5, which I know some people have done, but I feel like it'd be overkill especially because I have to squeeze in Step II/Level 2 in there somewhere.
 
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Thanks all for the advice. I am a DO student without a home program so 2 aways is necessary. I think we can do up to 5, which I know some people have done, but I feel like it'd be overkill especially because I have to squeeze in Step II/Level 2 in there somewhere.

DO student here that matched EM. Took Step II, Level II PE and CE first thing July and got that over with before auditions. Was able to focus 100% attention on doing well during auditions. PDs commented it was nice seeing I had them all done and passed. 10/10 would recommend.
 
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Thanks all for the advice. I am a DO student without a home program so 2 aways is necessary. I think we can do up to 5, which I know some people have done, but I feel like it'd be overkill especially because I have to squeeze in Step II/Level 2 in there somewhere.


Yep, similar deal. I took July off to study and took Step/Level 2 at the end of July. I did 2 auditions the next 8 weeks, until late September. Then I did my rural med required rotation with a super chill attending and squeezed in a few interviews and my PE (early October.) The relaxed rotation was quite a welcomed break before my next two auditions.

I think 2 auditions is sufficient for DO students, as long as you get both SLOEs in by October 1, but you probably would be better off doing 3 based on the fact that most (not all) people end up matching at one of the places they auditioned.

Personally, I did 4 because the first two were mainly for SLOEs but also at programs I knew I would be ranking highly based solely on location, and the second 2 were at the programs I knew would be my number 1 and 2. My SO is already a resident so I knew my rank list would be influenced significantly by location.

FWIW, I only did the fourth one because it was at the program my SO is a resident at. They don't generally take DOs so it was probably my only shot at an interview. Too bad they're now a DO-free program after this year's Match. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ So, I wouldn't recommend using an audition at a program that has no DOs unless you have similar ties, and even then it might not be enough to change anything (I got awesome feedback and the PD told me to get a SLOE from them because it was going to be "really awesome" even though it was so late I wasn't planning to ask for one... I digress.)

I think the magic number is 3. It gives you a chance to get your SLOEs and focus on crushing your audition at the program you're really interested in. I do think 4 was doable and I enjoyed all my auditions and I'm glad I did them all. I think having the chill rotation to split them up was key for not getting burnt out, but I know 4 in a row has been done!

Finally, it may be worth noting that I didn't ask for any time off of auditions for Interviews (though I did take time off during one for Ironman, so it's definitely doable to take time off.) I did the interviews for the respective programs while I was rotating there (if they were offered.) I did the rest during that rural med rotation in early October, between the end of my last audition rotation and Christmas, and most of them in January.

Sorry, I know this got long-winded, but I had some questions/anxiety about my plan working when I was in your position last year and I wished I had more information. If you have any other questions on anything (especially regarding being a DO in the process) feel free to PM me!
 
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Any brave soul want to take up the mantle of being the next @doggydog/@surely and make a new thread for the 2018-2019 application year? Promise to still answer questions and give advice, it just seems weird to keep this thread alive post-match.


I'll be more than happy to do it. What else does the glorious job require?
 
I'll be more than happy to do it. What else does the glorious job require?
Right now? Nothing much, just make a thread for the class of 2019 to ask their questions. The more involved thing is that eventually someone will need to manage the 2019 spreadsheet... Assuming there's someone neurotic enough for the task. I'm happy to set it up in advance so no one has to reinvent the wheel.
 
And be prepared to continue to get PMs over a year later from people asking you to explain certain anonymous rank lists.
 
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There is a new EM program in California. Not sure if HCA related.

"I am incredibly pleased to announce that we just received accreditation for our new emergency medicine residency at St Joseph's Medical Center in Stockton, California, and are hoping to fill our 9 resident positions this July. We will be reviewing applications and conducting WebEx and in person interviews over the next few weeks. We are located just about a hour south of Sacramento. Interested individuals can contact me ([email protected]) or my coordinator at [email protected]. Thanks! :)"
Emergency Medicine Residency Program | Dignity Health - St. Joseph's Stockton
 
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There is a new EM program in California. Not sure if HCA related. @theSmurfette @GandalfTheWhite

"I am incredibly pleased to announce that we just received accreditation for our new emergency medicine residency at St Joseph's Medical Center in Stockton, California, and are hoping to fill our 9 resident positions this July. We will be reviewing applications and conducting WebEx and in person interviews over the next few weeks. We are located just about a hour south of Sacramento. Interested individuals can contact me ([email protected]) or my coordinator at [email protected]. Thanks! :)"
Emergency Medicine Residency Program | Dignity Health - St. Joseph's Stockton

Its a TEAMHealth hospital.

Not HCA but will still be a CMG sponsored residency.
 
Is it a match violation to contact this program while I have secured a PGY-1 spot? I SOAPed into IM but would consider switching if possible. What are the appropriate steps to take?
 
I'm confused how are there so many new programs? Who approves these? Is this an EM specific thing with new residencies everywhere? I remember students recently protesting there weren't enough residency spots in the country! (yes I've read the noose thread on this forum already)
 
Is it a match violation to contact this program while I have secured a PGY-1 spot? I SOAPed into IM but would consider switching if possible. What are the appropriate steps to take?


Per NRMP, it "technically" is. It states that if you accepted an offer during match/SOAP, and you plan on contacting programs for another offer (im assuming in the context of breaking a currently accepted contract), you need permission from the NRMP regardless if the new and old programs allow it.
However, I'm not sure how enforced these rules are, since the only way the NRMP would find out is if the programs report the applicant. Plus the waiver itself takes a while to process. Programs are NOT actively seeking out applicants to report, especially after the main match and SOAP.

I also did not match. And it was extremely tempting to apply to the program. But you also have to be realistic about the match contract. Its a contract for a reason. Plus one of the most important things you can do as a reapplicant is have the support of your current program you matched at. If you disclose your intent to leave, this could ruin it at the program youre at. I SOAPed into a surgery prelim, the coordinator has already put in my request for doing an EM elective early at their own EM program. The residents I spoke to seemed cool and friendly. And I was overall getting good vibes. I did not want to try and pursue something that wasnt guaranteed at the risk of losing everything.

If you have a categorical spot, this looks much much worse. Especialy since residency hasnt even started yet.
 
Per NRMP, it "technically" is. It states that if you accepted an offer during match/SOAP, and you plan on contacting programs for another offer (im assuming in the context of breaking a currently accepted contract), you need permission from the NRMP regardless if the new and old programs allow it.
However, I'm not sure how enforced these rules are, since the only way the NRMP would find out is if the programs report the applicant. Plus the waiver itself takes a while to process. Programs are NOT actively seeking out applicants to report, especially after the main match and SOAP.

I also did not match. And it was extremely tempting to apply to the program. But you also have to be realistic about the match contract. Its a contract for a reason. Plus one of the most important things you can do as a reapplicant is have the support of your current program you matched at. If you disclose your intent to leave, this could ruin it at the program youre at. I SOAPed into a surgery prelim, the coordinator has already put in my request for doing an EM elective early at their own EM program. The residents I spoke to seemed cool and friendly. And I was overall getting good vibes. I did not want to try and pursue something that wasnt guaranteed at the risk of losing everything.

If you have a categorical spot, this looks much much worse. Especialy since residency hasnt even started yet.

The NRMP has historically not allowed waivers for post-match program/specialty changes without serious extenuating circumstances, and has taken legal action against those who have tried to break their match agreement. Reporting and Investigation of Violations - The Match, National Resident Matching Program - If "a program offers a position to an applicant who is matched to a concurrent year position in another program" (including SOAP) one possible sanction is "barring applicants or programs from participation in future NRMP Matches." I think any new program would be unlikely to take that risk...

There's an SDN article about this very thing, actually - Residency Applicants Beware! Make Sure You Understand the Match Participation Agreement | Student Doctor Network
 
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