doc toothache

10+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2006
8,124
2,255
281
Status
Dentist
Here is some information that might be useful in selecting a list of schools for the upcoming application cycle. There is no substitute for being informed and without question, the best information can be found in the ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools 2017-2018
 

Attachments

Kou_KeiKi

2+ Year Member
Mar 10, 2017
381
287
81
Status
Dental Student
Just to clarify, are these based on average applicant statistics or average acceptances?
 
  • Like
Reactions: xuzoo

redhotchiligochu

D3
2+ Year Member
Jul 11, 2016
649
698
81
USA
Status
Dental Student
LOL Western's oGPA was 3.25 this cycle?!? Still somewhat salty I got rejected there.

I'm shocked to see UCLA's sGPA dropped compared to last cycle.

Maybe GPA-wise the application cycle wasn't as competitive this time around, maybe adcoms looked for the "passion for dentistry" aspect of the application more? :bucktooth:

Advice to future applicants: make sure your personal statement REALLY stands out!

Edit: boldedededed it
 
Last edited:

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
This is based on the new "2017–2018 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools - For Students Entering Dental School in Fall 2018 or Fall 2019" right. They haven't released the digital version. I had to order the physical book (still waiting). Everyone spells Touro wrong. Haha.

2017-2018 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools : American Dental Education Association

~"2016 entering class characteristics." Wouldn't that make it class of 2020 (minus UoP). @Likkriue
~"Based on feedback about the previous online edition, we are developing a more robust online version of the Official Guide and the anticipated launch is summer 2017."
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
I was always skeptical when SDN described it as getting harder and harder to get in, but based on the last Doc Toothache rank (2014)...the DAT scores went from:

19.9 AA, 19.9 PAT, 19.7 TS ->
20.2 AA, 20.4 PAT, 20.1 TS

Meanwhile....:shrug:

 
Last edited:

stoopidmonkeycatdog

2+ Year Member
Nov 9, 2015
599
824
81
Status
Pre-Dental
I was always skeptical when SDN described it as getting harder and harder to get in, but based on the last Doc Toothache rank (2014)...the DAT scores went from:

19.9 AA, 19.9 PAT, 19.7 TS ->
20.2 AA, 20.4 PAT, 20.1 TS

Meanwhile....:shrug:

Interesting graphs, thank you for posting them.

You also have to remember that each DAT is only standardized against it's class, not against all years of test takers. So a 20 from last year is not necessarily comparable to a 20 from this year, though they do obviously stay around the same percentage wise. The small changed you listed from the 2015 entering class to the 2016 one don't seem that large to me personally.
 
  • Like
Reactions: maga1994 and Rekker

Likkriue

2+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2016
2,702
3,847
131
New York City
Status
Dental Student
This is based on the new "2017–2018 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools - For Students Entering Dental School in Fall 2018 or Fall 2019" right. They haven't released the digital version. I had to order the physical book (still waiting). Everyone spells Touro wrong. Haha.

2017-2018 ADEA Official Guide to Dental Schools : American Dental Education Association

~"2016 entering class characteristics." Wouldn't that make it class of 2020 (minus UoP). @Likkriue
~"Based on feedback about the previous online edition, we are developing a more robust online version of the Official Guide and the anticipated launch is summer 2017."
The stats don't match up with many of the schools own websites. For example Upenn lists their numbers. Applications for Upenn for class of 2019 is the same as what the guide listed.
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
The stats don't match up with many of the schools own websites. For example Upenn lists their numbers. Applications for Upenn for class of 2019 is the same as what the guide listed.
Personally, I'm always skeptical of what a school reports on their site (unless it specifies which class the numbers are based on like in UPenns case). I feel like several schools cherry pick the best year of the last few years to post on their sites. If we knew both UPenns c/o '19 and c/o '20 stats and the '19 matched the book then we'd know for sure what's up. Personally, I just want to make sure that all the numbers I'm comparing schools with are from the same class.
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
Interesting graphs, thank you for posting them.

You also have to remember that each DAT is only standardized against it's class, not against all years of test takers. So a 20 from last year is not necessarily comparable to a 20 from this year, though they do obviously stay around the same percentage wise. The small changed you listed from the 2015 entering class to the 2016 one don't seem that large to me personally.
The way I interpret it (just a hypothesis of course), is that 2007 urged applicants that would not have normally considered dentistry to both take the DAT and apply. The applicant number seems to vary substantially over time due to x/y/z (demographics/economy/not just an interest in dentistry). Meanwhile, the -22% applicants to seat ratio from '10 to '14 is fairly noticeable (mostly due to a +19% seats increase from '10 to '14). I agree that 1/2 a point isn't a huge difference. From 1999 to 2004 to 2009 you see similar variation of 1/2 a point up and down (though that's based on average DAT test statistics rather than enrollee DAT statistics).
 
Last edited:

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
'09 did have the strongest DAT statistics of those three years though. It has a lower AA than 1999 only because of a dramatic drop in QR (it outscores 1999 and 2004 in every other sections). It just challenges my original assumption that seats are all that's changing (which would mean it's getting easier over time).

10.3% scored 21+ AA in 2009 (of 14.0k test takers)
vs
13.2% scored 21+ AA in 2004 (but with only 6.6k test takers)

It's not a matter of people getting smarter/trying hard, it's more "what causes more/less people to pursue dentistry." My guess is that schools can "feel" the applicants getting stronger (but not the average applicant, just the # of qualified applicants) and are confident that these additional students would pass the boards/be competent dentists. I wish I could get my hands on the 2013 DAT statistics.
 
  • Like
Reactions: stoopidmonkeycatdog
OP
doc toothache

doc toothache

10+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2006
8,124
2,255
281
Status
Dentist
Just to clarify, are these based on average applicant statistics or average acceptances?
When you have ~1/3 of the applicant pool applying to a single school, there is not much value in the metrics of the applicant pool for individual schools.

Are these stats from the ADEA guide, school websites, or elsewhere?
If you look carefully at line 82, you will find the answer to your question.

Soon enough we will be seeing competition that matches that of American medical schools
Kind of like saying we will soon be approaching infinity.

You spelt Touro wrong.
You mean Touro is spelled T-o-u-r-o and it is not spelt Tauro? Let's face it. Had the chosen name been toro, we would not be having this discussion.
 

Likkriue

2+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2016
2,702
3,847
131
New York City
Status
Dental Student
When you have ~1/3 of the applicant pool applying to a single school, there is not much value in the metrics of the applicant pool for individual schools.


If you look carefully at line 82, you will find the answer to your question.


Kind of like saying we will soon be approaching infinity.


You mean Touro is spelled T-o-u-r-o and it is not spelt Tauro? Let's face it. Had the chosen name been toro, we would not be having this discussion.
Oops, Also Bufalo should be changed to Buffalo.
 

whatisit350

7+ Year Member
Feb 10, 2010
122
53
221
Status
Pre-Dental
LOL Western's oGPA was 3.25 this cycle?!? Still somewhat salty I got rejected there.

I'm shocked to see UCLA's sGPA dropped compared to last cycle.

Maybe GPA-wise the application cycle wasn't as competitive this time around, maybe adcoms looked for the "passion for dentistry" aspect of the application more? :bucktooth:

Advice to future applicants: make sure your personal statement REALLY stands out!

Edit: boldedededed it
Thanks for that advice. I'm working hard on mine
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
Wish they could release percentages of more reccent scores too. Also the 10% 21+ seems so low. I've seen the TMDSAS report, and a much higher % than 10 get than among applicants not just matriculants.
It wouldn't be surprising if Texas schools were above average though right? Baylor/SA/Houston probably have a high yield among Texas applicants.

I have seen elsewhere that 9.8% of applicants had 21+ AA which then turns into 18.0% of enrollees having 21+ AA (for 2009). Which makes me a bit confused as to how the average AA score can be 20+ for so many schools. It seems nearly half of enrollees (42.2%) have 19-20 AA (again, for 2009).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: distressstudent

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student

klownzo

2+ Year Member
Nov 5, 2015
161
176
81
LOL Western's oGPA was 3.25 this cycle?!? Still somewhat salty I got rejected there.

I'm shocked to see UCLA's sGPA dropped compared to last cycle.

Maybe GPA-wise the application cycle wasn't as competitive this time around, maybe adcoms looked for the "passion for dentistry" aspect of the application more? :bucktooth:

Advice to future applicants: make sure your personal statement REALLY stands out!

Edit: boldedededed it
I'm pretty sure that data is from the c/o 2020. This cycle isn't even over yet so they can't have final stats for it yet
 

Likkriue

2+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2016
2,702
3,847
131
New York City
Status
Dental Student
I'm pretty sure that data is from the c/o 2020. This cycle isn't even over yet so they can't have final stats for it yet
The numbers don't match up with what dental schools have listed as their data for the 2020 cycle.

The only one that would be 2020 is touro because there is no other data before that.
All the numbers match closer to 2019 than 2020. UPenn listed in 2019 they had 2314 applicants and their website also listed that much. For stony brook the numbers showed in the guide matched those given to me by Stony Brook for 2019.

However Columbia the numbers don't match up at all. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised they throw in whatever numbers they liked into the book. Not a lot of consistency. Why would dental schools post a different set of numbers on their websites and then give out information to ADEA with far different numbers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wengerin

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
The numbers don't match up with what dental schools have listed as their data for the 2020 cycle.

The only one that would be 2020 is touro because there is no other data before that.
All the numbers match closer to 2019 than 2020. UPenn listed in 2019 they had 2314 applicants and their website also listed that much. For stony brook the numbers showed in the guide matched those given to me by Stony Brook for 2019.

However Columbia the numbers don't match up at all. Honestly I wouldn't be surprised they throw in whatever numbers they liked into the book. Not a lot of consistency. Why would dental schools post a different set of numbers on their websites and then give out information to ADEA with far different numbers.
Both UPenn and Columbia only go up to c/o '19 on their websites though? Neither school uploaded any c/o '20 stats yet. Their c/o '17 and c/o '18 match Toothache/ADEA '13 Rank & '14 Rank exactly for every number I checked. Then ADEA skipped a year (c/o '19) for some reason. Maybe that's what's confusing? Why isn't this the "2016" Ranking? If it were the 2017 Ranking it would have to be based on c/o 2021 which isn't complete yet.
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
Well you can just open the excel file and look at it right? By no means are the TX schools higher in stats than the others listed there...
Well, all three are above average for AA and oGPA if school #33 is considered average. Houston is #5 for both sGPA & oGPA. Baylor is almost below average with that 20.3 AA but not quite.
 

Noice

Dental Student
May 3, 2017
79
59
31
Status
Dental Student
Well the variable I was talking about was the DAT. I said 21 is unlikely to be top 10% giving tx schools as an example- then you said they were above average, which clearly they were not according to DAT scores in the table in this thread which is the variable we were discussing. oGPA and sGPA were irrelevant- I stand by what I said. 21 is definitely not top 10% now. And if you say above average, it doesn't mean jack if the averages of each school are still lower than 21

Edit: so the 10% thing was actually accurate for TX schools too back in 2009 (just checked). Actually it was 7% for TX schools so that's interesting. Now top 10% for applicants in tx as of 2016 is more like 22, and among acceptees more like 23+.
Huh? You previously replied to someone telling them to open the excel file (but then that other someone turned out to be you?? So does that mean you were telling me to open the excel sheet?).



You said "By no means are the TX schools higher in stats than the others listed there..." but they are higher on average by AA relative to other schools "according to DAT scores in the table in this thread which is the variable we were discussing."

In 2009, 58/848 or 6.8% (~7%) had a 21+ AA. I'm not disagreeing with you that more than 10% of TX applicants have a 21+ AA nowadays. In 2016, they lumped 21 and 20 together so it's tough to know, but 22+ AA would put you in the top 12.7% of applicants for TX. To be honest, I can't follow what we're apparently arguing about. Why would it "mean jack if the averages of each school are still lower than 21?" Even the matriculants on the TMDSAS report were lower than 21 (20.4). That's still above the 20.2 average AA for dental schools.
 

Medin2017

2+ Year Member
Mar 7, 2017
944
775
81
Status
Pre-Dental
Huh? You previously replied to someone telling them to open the excel file (but then that other someone turned out to be you?? So does that mean you were telling me to open the excel sheet?).



You said "By no means are the TX schools higher in stats than the others listed there..." but they are higher on average by AA relative to other schools "according to DAT scores in the table in this thread which is the variable we were discussing."

In 2009, 58/848 or 6.8% (~7%) had a 21+ AA. I'm not disagreeing with you that more than 10% of TX applicants have a 21+ AA nowadays. In 2016, they lumped 21 and 20 together so it's tough to know, but 22+ AA would put you in the top 12.7% of applicants for TX. To be honest, I can't follow what we're apparently arguing about. Why would it "mean jack if the averages of each school are still lower than 21?" Even the matriculants on the TMDSAS report were lower than 21 (20.4). That's still above the 20.2 average AA for dental schools.
yea I retract my statement. The 21 being top 10% for schools in 2009 is definitely a truth but now not so much. I went full stupid here
 
  • Like
Reactions: Noice
OP
doc toothache

doc toothache

10+ Year Member
Jan 17, 2006
8,124
2,255
281
Status
Dentist
Oops, Also Bufalo should be changed to Buffalo.
You might have been considered for a proofreading position, but your portfolio seems to be lacking.
 

mdmm55

2+ Year Member
Sep 11, 2015
6
0
1
Status
Physical Therapy Student
Good day.
God bless America and Americans.
In this great, comprehensive ,wonderful informative, Dental forum, I am a new student . I am a girl student with minimum resources of informations. I am a USA citizen living in Canada and now want to apply in Dental College/Uni. I have low GPA with Anatomy,physio,bio,physics,statistics,General psychology,Developmental psychology,English writing,English composition and sociology. General chemistry but No biochemistry,no Organic chemistry. Is Dental (DDS.DMD) of 4 years or also any college have 3 years degree too ??.Kindly provide me just names of all Dental college/schools who will accept my low GPA with above subjects,please please..
 
Sep 15, 2017
189
204
41
Status
Pre-Dental
Good day.
God bless America and Americans.
In this great, comprehensive ,wonderful informative, Dental forum, I am a new student . I am a girl student with minimum resources of informations. I am a USA citizen living in Canada and now want to apply in Dental College/Uni. I have low GPA with Anatomy,physio,bio,physics,statistics,General psychology,Developmental psychology,English writing,English composition and sociology. General chemistry but No biochemistry,no Organic chemistry. Is Dental (DDS.DMD) of 4 years or also any college have 3 years degree too ??.Kindly provide me just names of all Dental college/schools who will accept my low GPA with above subjects,please please..
The first thing you need to do is clarify a few things. You say you’re a girl but your profile say’s you’re male. You post in the PT forum asking about admissions but you say you want to know more about dental school. You need to decide what you really want to do in school and put all your focus there. Admissions doesn’t like it when people are undecided. Get that worked out first, then I’m sure people will be willing to help you answer any questions you have.
Good Luck
 
Dec 4, 2017
28
1
1
When a school has a low GPA/DAT average, does that mean it isn't a good dental school? Like ASDOH, for example. Should one go to a school with better stats?
 

Likkriue

2+ Year Member
Jan 30, 2016
2,702
3,847
131
New York City
Status
Dental Student
When a school has a low GPA/DAT average, does that mean it isn't a good dental school? Like ASDOH, for example. Should one go to a school with better stats?
No, it just means they look at aspects of the application beyond just grades and the dat.
 

mdmm55

2+ Year Member
Sep 11, 2015
6
0
1
Status
Physical Therapy Student
MLC45- Indeed my dad open this account in this forum a few years ago and he gave me link to use.I did not get admission in Physio and other programs due to Low GPA. Now I want to updat my GPA with some new courses to boost .I am requesting for your help,as in my above post.