2017 Still No Interview; Panic mode?!

[LazyPanda121]

---

Members don't see this ad.

Hello Y'all. Thanksgiving is in a week...I am just curious to see if anyone else is in the same situation as me...Finished secondaries throughout Aug. so far 6 rejections and 20 silent purgatory. (All MD programs though...)


Brief info (Below Average): 3.63 cGPA 3.57 sGPA 506 MCAT (already signed up for retake next year if things don't work out; hope to cancel...)

 

[CloverBale]

Same here ! 40+ applications, 6Rs, no IIs, completed in August...hang in there 🙂

 

[onyxbell]

It's fine. We still have about 200-ish hours to go till the Turkey deadline. #screamsholistically

 

[LazyPanda121]

I wish us all the best of luck!...(I just hope people would stop asking the question: "How is your Med school app going?"....gets me every time...

 

[CloverBale]

I wish us all the best of luck!...(I just hope people would stop asking the question: "How is your Med school app going?"....gets me every time...

Especially when your parents ask! I have a hard time answering them without looking super defeated. I'm not ready to tell them that I didn't get in anywhere.

 

[The8]

yo tbh though this cycle started 1 WEEK after last cycle AND Thanksgiving is also pretty early this November (I always remember it being the 27th or so) so I would at least give it 2-3 more weeks before you give up hope (and even then don't give up just throw in a backup plan for another year off in full throttle). Even with my recent interviews, I am now worried about post int acceptance, the panic really never ends :/.

 

[Spectar]

yo tbh though this cycle started 1 WEEK after last cycle AND Thanksgiving is also pretty early this November (I always remember it being the 27th or so) so I would at least give it 2-3 more weeks before you give up hope (and even then don't give up just throw in a backup plan for another year off in full throttle). Even with my recent interviews, I am now worried about post int acceptance, the panic really never ends :/.

There is always something to stress about

 

[jazzmetal]

No interviews, two rejections, and sixteen sounds of silence. Half of my secondaries weren't in until September though.

 

[Jaigantic]

Especially when your parents ask! I have a hard time answering them without looking super defeated. I'm not ready to tell them that I didn't get in anywhere.

I actually kinda would like it if ONLY they asked me about it because when I express my woes they somehow know exactly what to say to make me feel not so wildly anxious. Thanks mom and dad <3333

 

[MareNostrummm]

Hello Y'all. Thanksgiving is in a week...I am just curious to see if anyone else is in the same situation as me...Finished secondaries throughout Aug. so far 6 rejections and 20 silent purgatory. (All MD programs though...)


Brief info (Below Average): 3.63 cGPA 3.57 sGPA 506 MCAT (already signed up for retake next year if things don't work out; hope to cancel...)

Did you start applying DO?

 

[jazzmetal]

And exactly how will panic help you? Everyone who enters this process should have entered knowing the majority of applicants will not gain admission and should be preparing to be a reapplicant from the moment they submit AMCAS.

Those of us with no interviews (yet) are not suddenly ignorant of how the process works; we're here to compare notes, and maybe commiserate for a minute. That doesn't mean we're not also planning ahead or looking for advice - on other threads.

 

[Spectar]

And exactly how will panic help you? Everyone who enters this process should have entered knowing the majority of applicants will not gain admission and should be preparing to be a reapplicant from the moment they submit AMCAS.

I don't know how I feel about this statement. Those with high LizzyM scores shouldn't have to go into the process prepared to be a reapplicant since their chances are so high (barring any major red flag). I feel like that's a major aspect of using LizzyM scores!

 

[bananafish94]

What does your school list look like? I think you're definitely still in the running and I don't believe in the Thanksgiving rule, but your GPA and MCAT are a hair on the low side. I would consider throwing a couple of DO schools into the mix just in case. Good luck!

 

[shockdoc]

40% of those with 3.8 GPA or higher dont get accepted
60% of those with 3.6-3.8 GPA dont get accepted
20% of the with 517 MCAT or higher dont get accepted
Nearly 50% of matriculants get a single acceptance
Just under 25% if matriculants got a single interview
No applicant, no matter their LizzyM metric should assume they are a shoo’in.
I will reiterate: all applicants should assume they will be a reapplicant and should continue to enhance their record from the moment they submit AMCAS

Just curious, is this all based on AAMC data or SDN?
50% matriculants get a single acceptance, how would this data be available from AAMC, if im not mistaken, these stats arent published online?

 

[stickgirl390]

Hello Y'all. Thanksgiving is in a week...I am just curious to see if anyone else is in the same situation as me...Finished secondaries throughout Aug. so far 6 rejections and 20 silent purgatory. (All MD programs though...)


Brief info (Below Average): 3.63 cGPA 3.57 sGPA 506 MCAT (already signed up for retake next year if things don't work out; hope to cancel...)

I have the same MCAT score but 3.8 GPAs. I’ve had radio silence from all my MD apps, but 4 II and 2 acceptances by the end of October for DO. I am a Reapplicant, and let me tell you that having those DO acceptances takes alllll the stress away. Apply DO! You’re the perfect candidate!

 

[lpp06]

Just curious, is this all based on AAMC data or SDN?
50% matriculants get a single acceptance, how would this data be available from AAMC, if im not mistaken, these stats arent published online?

That’s all readily available from the AAMC. Matriculant info is gathered for a yearly survey of matriculating students known as the MSQ Matriculating Student Questionnaire (MSQ) - Data and Analysis - AAMC

 

[jazzmetal]

There is no situation that “panic” is called for, especially for prospective physicians. The commiseration is needed solely for not accepting the reality of chances when you started. Using the present to prepare for the future instead of focusing on something you canot influence would seem the path to follow

Suppose your marriage were ending. Would it help you to get scolded on how 50% of marriages end in divorce?
If you were losing a parent, would you want to hear from someone who lost a pet? The conversation that helped me the most when my dad died was with a friend who had also lost a parent. It didn't make me delusional.
The people with multiple interviews or no skin in the game who keep crashing the no-interview threads - just let us have our minute. Empathy and sensitivity toward others are important skills for physicians (and their advisors) too. Recognize that no one here is actually panicking. We're processing some disappointment. Nothing wrong with that. Emotions and rationality aren't mutually exclusive.

 

[cn795]

Jumping into this thread as well 😉

3.7-3.9 c/s GPAs, 513-518 MCAT with a major British scholarship and my other ECs being the stronger part of my app. Applied to 35 schools of pretty conservative caliber.

1 II at a Top 20 (25-33% post-II acceptance rate) received only less than a week ago and a pre-II hold (that few get off of) at my 1 and only IS campus. 4 R's, 3 holds.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.

 

[shockdoc]

Jumping into this thread as well 😉

3.7-3.9 c/s GPAs, 513-518 MCAT with a major British scholarship and my other ECs being the stronger part of my app. Applied to 35 schools of pretty conservative caliber.

1 II at a Top 20 (25-33% post-II acceptance rate) received only less than a week ago and a pre-II hold (that few get off of) at my 1 and only IS campus. 4 R's, 3 holds.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.

Would you mind sharing your complete date?

 

[Kingsmen2018]

R-E-L-A-X. I used to panic like a monkey about lack of II or any love from schools. SDN causes this I'm convinced. If you have a solid app and applied appropriately someone will get back to ya

 

[Fossa]

R-E-L-A-X. I used to panic like a monkey about lack of II or any love from schools. SDN causes this I'm convinced. If you have a solid app someone will get back to ya

This.

The commiseration is needed solely for not accepting the reality of chances when you started.

This is harsh and unnecessary. The stats you post are always helpful; however, you need to take a moment to imagine this process from the opposite side of the table. People are commiserating because this process sucks, just like med students and residents commiserate after a long day in the clinic. Full disclosure, I was accepted to an MD school, but the swarm of rejections I've been receiving (8 in the last 12 days, including my top 3 choices) has been tough. It's nice to know you're not alone. Let them have their moment.

 

[jazzmetal]

This.


This is harsh and unnecessary. The stats you post are always helpful; however, you need to take a moment to imagine this process from the opposite side of the table. People are commiserating because this process sucks, just like med students and residents commiserate after a long day in the clinic. Full disclosure, I was accepted to an MD school, but the swarm of rejections I've been receiving (8 in the last 12 days, including my top 3 choices) has been tough. It's nice to know you're not alone. Let them have their moment.

Thanks for the support, and I hope your acceptance is buffering the rejection blows. You will be a doctor! Maybe even doing your residency at one of those top 3s when it comes time. 🙂

 

[Goro]

Jumping into this thread as well 😉

3.7-3.9 c/s GPAs, 513-518 MCAT with a major British scholarship and my other ECs being the stronger part of my app. Applied to 35 schools of pretty conservative caliber.

1 II at a Top 20 (25-33% post-II acceptance rate) received only less than a week ago and a pre-II hold (that few get off of) at my 1 and only IS campus. 4 R's, 3 holds.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.

Getting shafted? A career in Medicine is a privilege, not a right, and certainly not a reward for having good grades or being a good student. We're looking for people who will make good doctors, not merely good students. 4.0 automatons are a dime-a-dozen.

As the wise gonnif likes to point out, this is a process very analogous to the Olympic trials. There are literally hundreds of thousands of apps flying around, for only some 20000 MD seats and ~7000 DO seats. The odds of getting accepted to any given med school are around 3-5%.

 

[begoood95]

Getting shafted? A career in Medicine is a privilege, not a right, and certainly not a reward for having good grades or being a good student. We're looking for people who will make good doctors, not merely good students. 4.0 automatons are a dime-a-dozen.

The bolded, underlined, and italicized statement you made, which I've seen you state many times, is a pretty empty one, @Goro, especially within the context of this thread. What is that even supposed to mean?

A career in janitorial services is a privilege, not a right.
A career in teaching is a privilege, not a right.
A career in aviation is a privilege, not a right.
A career in engineering is a privilege, not a right.

...Okay? Do you see how those statements are meaningless? Who's arguing that its a "right"? And why are you contrasting it with "privilege"? No career is a "privilege" in the sense that you're using the term. Here's the definition: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people: education is a right, not a privilege | he has been accustomed all his life to wealth and privilege.

My understanding of privilege is encompassed by the latter example, though I'm sure you might be able to twist it to fit your usage.

A career in medicine is hopefully pursued out of a passion for a combination of things that culminate in a great physician. People who are commenting in this thread, especially those of whom have not received II, are simply expressing some frustration at their situation—which is fine, cathartic, and helpful. Throwing statistics around (a la @gonnif), while informative, doesn't really help either. @jazzmetal wonderfully illustrated why this is true.

 

[Lawpy]

Hello Y'all. Thanksgiving is in a week...I am just curious to see if anyone else is in the same situation as me...Finished secondaries throughout Aug. so far 6 rejections and 20 silent purgatory. (All MD programs though...)


Brief info (Below Average): 3.63 cGPA 3.57 sGPA 506 MCAT (already signed up for retake next year if things don't work out; hope to cancel...)

Consider adding some DO schools for some surety that you will get accepted this cycle and avoiding having to reapply and retake MCAT scores.

Also with all due respect to @Goro and @gonnif let's please allow this thread to serve as a support system to help and empathize with applicants who don't have interview invites yet. The application process is exhausting, expensive, disheartening, emotional and unpredictable. There is zero reason to worsen it by throwing around dismal statistics and exaggerating the competitiveness by irrationally comparing it with the Olympics. We know the process is difficult, so please, just allow us an opportunity to be optimistic and encouraging during this difficult time.

 

[CloverBale]

Panic! at the admissions process

 

[deleted804295]

@Lawper Just wondering, would you really consider a DO school over a M.D. school simply so you can get in your first round of applications?

I'm wondering because I want to eventually go into private practice and while a doctor is a doctor, some people really don't know that D.O. means doctor. If I weren't going into private practice I would go DO and be happy.

 

[deleted804295]

@Lawper @jazzmetal @Fossa

I really appreciate how you've brought compassion into this thread. Sometimes its hard disagreeing with the adcoms because they're so knowledgeable but I 100% agree that we should be compassionate and considerate in this process.

I wish the best of luck to my seniors who are currently going through this grueling process. Just reaching as far as you currently have is a milestone and I find you guys very admirable.

Regardless of if you get accepted or not this cycle, make sure to give yourself a treat with friends and family and work 10x harder for this next cycle. 🙂

 

[Spectar]

@Lawper Just wondering, would you really consider a DO school over a M.D. school simply so you can get in your first round of applications?

I'm wondering because I want to eventually go into private practice and while a doctor is a doctor, some people really don't know that D.O. means doctor. If I weren't going into private practice I would go DO and be happy.

That literally doesn't matter in private practice. The easiest way to test this is to try and schedule an appt with a D.O. in private practice. There is a 99% chance (specialty dependent) that person is booked well in advance (a few weeks to a few months).

People will still come to you without knowing the initials behind your name. They look up "cardiologist" in a certain region and you're name will pop up.

On top of all this, there is a very low chance you will be alone in your "private practice." Meaning you're going to be affiliated with a group or institution. Essentially, you will get referrals.

 

[deleted804295]

That literally doesn't matter in private practice. The easiest way to test this is to try and schedule an appt with a D.O. in private practice. There is a 99% chance (specialty dependent) that person is booked well in advance (a few weeks to a few months).

People will still come to you without knowing the initials behind your name. They look up "cardiologist" in a certain region and you're name will pop up.

Oh that's perfect then! I'll apply DO then just in case I get rejected from every single MD school. Thank you!

 

[bananafish94]

Applying to medical school is awful. It's entirely normal to be worried or even panicked at this point. Everyone knows that it's hard and the odds are low; I don't understand why some people relish kicking others when they're down. Keep fighting the good fight.

 

[Laterthansooner]

1) The thread started with tag line of Panic Mode? I take people at their word
2) Panicking never helps, which is the first thing I said
3) My empathy goes to those who set their expectations above the reality.

With all due respect...If visionaries hadn't set expectations above reality, we would never have heard of Amelia Earhart, Rosalind Franklin, or Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Sally Ride would not have flown to space. Madeline Albright would not have been Secretary of State and Hillary Clinton could not have run for the Presidency.

 

[Spectar]

I literally have three separate and distinct DO offices within walking distance of my house and all are in private practice. I have two neighbors who regularly see their DOs and only one of them knew that their physician was a DO. (Edit: They only knew that they were a doctor that made them feel better.)

It's okay that you don't know about DOs, but please don't make assumptions if you don't.

I think they get it, no point in beating a dead horse.

 

[efle]

The bolded, underlined, and italicized statement you made, which I've seen you state many times, is a pretty empty one, @Goro, especially within the context of this thread. What is that even supposed to mean?

A career in janitorial services is a privilege, not a right.
A career in teaching is a privilege, not a right.
A career in aviation is a privilege, not a right.
A career in engineering is a privilege, not a right.

...Okay? Do you see how those statements are meaningless? Who's arguing that its a "right"? And why are you contrasting it with "privilege"? No career is a "privilege" in the sense that you're using the term. Here's the definition: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people: education is a right, not a privilege | he has been accustomed all his life to wealth and privilege.

My understanding of privilege is encompassed by the latter example, though I'm sure you might be able to twist it to fit your usage.

A career in medicine is hopefully pursued out of a passion for a combination of things that culminate in a great physician. People who are commenting in this thread, especially those of whom have not received II, are simply expressing some frustration at their situation—which is fine, cathartic, and helpful. Throwing statistics around (a la @gonnif), while informative, doesn't really help either. @jazzmetal wonderfully illustrated why this is true.

Try substituting an antonym in the negative if you're really struggling to understand the phrase.

"You have good grades and high test scores. That does not make it an injustice for you to to be rejected by medical schools."

I think examples like yours above do sound odd, but the statement or synonymous variations make sense in other contexts where there is some kind of judgement of worth beyond objective metrics. "Leading this team as captain is a privilege, not something you become entitled to for being the fastest." That kind of thing.

Anyways, someone saying "I have a 3.8/515 and most schools seem uninterested, I'm totally getting shafted, this is so frustrating" def belies an "I deserve more attention than this" attitude. Goro's oft repeated bit is a pretty straightforward "you need to check that ego"

 

[LazyPanda121]

1) The thread started with tag line of Panic Mode? I take people at their word
2) Panicking never helps, which is the first thing I said
3) My empathy goes to those who set their expectations above the reality.

I apologize for coming up with such poor title...My original intention was to simply start a trend letting people (as well as me) know that they are not alone in midst of this long process and channel their energy somewhere else.

However, I also firmly believe that for most of us without interview invites at this point, we are not simply going to give up and give in to panic. Lets be real, in the grand scheme of things, one application cycle is nothing and it certainly does not distract me from being involved in the things I like to do (both medical and non-medically related).

Nonetheless, thank you for your input.

Suppose your marriage were ending. Would it help you to get scolded on how 50% of marriages end in divorce?
If you were losing a parent, would you want to hear from someone who lost a pet? The conversation that helped me the most when my dad died was with a friend who had also lost a parent. It didn't make me delusional.
The people with multiple interviews or no skin in the game who keep crashing the no-interview threads - just let us have our minute. Empathy and sensitivity toward others are important skills for physicians (and their advisors) too. Recognize that no one here is actually panicking. We're processing some disappointment. Nothing wrong with that. Emotions and rationality aren't mutually exclusive.

I absolutely love your response. Best of luck to you !

 

[863168]

@begoood95 All careers are privileges. No one has to employ you just because you got a 4.0 with a piece of paper of slightly greater constitution than toilet paper. NCES projects this year that 1.9 million are going to graduate with a bachelor's degree and 2 million or more will graduate the year after with increasing numbers of educated graduates who feel it is a right to receive a job that will compensate for their post-secondary education when they are swimming in a sea of applicants.

 

[Goro]

Did you not read the sentence that prompted my response? Efle did and understood.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.
This type of mentality telegraphs "I deserve an interview!"

No, you don't.

The bolded, underlined, and italicized statement you made, which I've seen you state many times, is a pretty empty one, @Goro, especially within the context of this thread. What is that even supposed to mean?

A career in janitorial services is a privilege, not a right.
A career in teaching is a privilege, not a right.
A career in aviation is a privilege, not a right.
A career in engineering is a privilege, not a right.

...Okay? Do you see how those statements are meaningless? Who's arguing that its a "right"? And why are you contrasting it with "privilege"? No career is a "privilege" in the sense that you're using the term. Here's the definition: a special right, advantage, or immunity granted or available only to a particular person or group of people: education is a right, not a privilege | he has been accustomed all his life to wealth and privilege.

My understanding of privilege is encompassed by the latter example, though I'm sure you might be able to twist it to fit your usage.

A career in medicine is hopefully pursued out of a passion for a combination of things that culminate in a great physician. People who are commenting in this thread, especially those of whom have not received II, are simply expressing some frustration at their situation—which is fine, cathartic, and helpful. Throwing statistics around (a la @gonnif), while informative, doesn't really help either. @jazzmetal wonderfully illustrated why this is true.

 

[863168]

With all due respect...If visionaries hadn't set expectations above reality, we would never have heard of Amelia Earhart, Rosalind Franklin, or Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Sally Ride would not have flown to space. Madeline Albright would not have been Secretary of State and Hillary Clinton could not have run for the Presidency.

Are you really conflating medical admission statistics to feminism, because if you are that is really atrocious. Not just because of the false equivalency, but because you are attempting to bring in a completely irrelevant topic that actually matters and gets devalued by arbitrarily applying it nonsensically to an unrelated system.

 

[hubbsbubbs]

I would guess that the adcoms, @Goro and @gonnif, have been around sdn for so many cycles that they have a set of automated responses to commonly asked questions and concerns, like why do I have no interviews. When I was on this forum only one year ago, I approached the no interviews thread very differently than I do now having seen it in so many iterations. Their tone may come off as flippant, uncaring, or unempathetic, but they're probably just tired. In a way, it's actually quite refreshing to see so many people defend the right to commiserate and to empathize with people in a similar situation, it really speaks to what I like about medicine -- that someone you don't know matters to you and even though you don't really know why, you want to fight for them
tl;dr there are takeaways besides anger and outrage

 

[begoood95]

Sorry for the wall of texts friends.

Try substituting an antonym in the negative if you're really struggling to understand the phrase.

"You have good grades and high test scores. That does not make it an injustice for you to to be rejected by medical schools."

I think examples like yours above do sound odd, but the statement or synonymous variations make sense in other contexts where there is some kind of judgement of worth beyond objective metrics. "Leading this team as captain is a privilege, not something you become entitled to for being the fastest." That kind of thing.

Anyways, someone saying "I have a 3.8/515 and most schools seem uninterested, I'm totally getting shafted, this is so frustrating" def belies an "I deserve more attention than this" attitude. Goro's oft repeated bit is a pretty straightforward "you need to check that ego"

Oh, I understand the phrase, but I was just saying that within this context, I don't think it's very useful. Right now, though, we're sort of arguing about what could be construed as a matter of opinion, based on what you personally believe is a privilege. In other words, you (+ @Goro) might not think that someone who earns a 3.8/515 deserves or has a right to an II; however, if I were running this process, and in an ideal world, I would make it such that those who earn the a preset metric of academics and EC's would at least get an interview. This would take many more medical schools; an "ideal" situation like this entails some economic "problems" as well; and above all, it's unlikely to ever happen.

So, really, I get what you're saying and appreciate the critique. I just disagree with you guys. I think that, indeed, those who exhibit the right mix of academics and EC's and so on do deserve II, and are entitled to—at the very least—a shot at admittance. Like I said though, this is a matter of opinion, and I take it that you (+ @Goro) disagree. And that's okay.

@begoood95 All careers are privileges. No one has to employ you just because you got a 4.0 with a piece of paper of slightly greater constitution than toilet paper. NCES projects this year that 1.9 million are going to graduate with a bachelor's degree and 2 million or more will graduate the year after with increasing numbers of educated graduates who feel it is a right to receive a job that will compensate for their post-secondary education when they are swimming in a sea of applicants.

See above. I disagree. I think the notion of any career being a "privilege" is strange and disagreeable. I'd like to see that number increase, because I see the intrinsic value in higher education. Let's get everyone an opportunity to obtain a bachelors. An educated society is one in which I want to live. The economics of such an issue are beyond the scope of both of our bases of knowledge. I won't comment on it.

Note: my comment about increasing everyone's access to higher education does not mean that I'm passing judgment on those careers which do not require higher education. I have the utmost respect for every career; that was simply a little tangent.

Did you not read the sentence that prompted my response? Efle did and understood.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.
This type of mentality telegraphs "I deserve an interview!"

No, you don't.

I did. See my response to @efle above. In short, I believe that, in a sense, these people are in fact getting shafted. I do in fact believe that they deserve an interview. And moreover, I don't really think that entails that said person, who believes that they deserve an interview, is entitled in a negative sense, either. I understand that the process is initially one in which great negative selection must occur; if I were in charge, I'd change that. I think you are on morally weak ground if you argue the opposite, namely that you would, in an ideal world, limit the number of potential physicians accessible to the general public. This is what you would be doing if you'd preclude someone's chances of an II simply because you're holding on to a faulty notion of "privilege" and "rights."

 

[Lifeblood_20]

Did you not read the sentence that prompted my response? Efle did and understood.

I'm frustrated and I think that's pretty justified for all my fellow SDN people who have done "everything right" and are basically just getting shafted.
This type of mentality telegraphs "I deserve an interview!"

No, you don't.

Why are you getting so triggered by one expression? With all due respect the point is not whether that anyone is assuming they deserve an interview. The point is that peeps are trying to express their frustration in a healthy way. Does that bother you Adcoms so much that you would not even give them a place to do that? We all know how soul-crushing this process is -- how does reiterating so help anyone? It is unnecessary cruel and definitely unhelpful.

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

And exactly how will panic help you? Everyone who enters this process should have entered knowing the majority of applicants will not gain admission and should be preparing to be a reapplicant from the moment they submit AMCAS.

40% of those with 3.8 GPA or higher dont get accepted
60% of those with 3.6-3.8 GPA dont get accepted
20% of the with 517 MCAT or higher dont get accepted
Nearly 50% of matriculants get a single acceptance
Just under 25% if matriculants got a single interview
No applicant, no matter their LizzyM metric should assume they are a shoo’in.
I will reiterate: all applicants should assume they will be a reapplicant and should continue to enhance their record from the moment they submit AMCAS

That's pretty cold but dang gonnif I love the stats you dish out.

 

[lpp06]

Although I think @Goro Is a bit crass, and oft a bit misunderstood, I think there is a l sentiment he is trying to convey to high stat applicants. The underlying message that should be taken away is that high stat applicants should not consumed so much by their frustration that it leads to complacency. One needs to continually improve their application in spite of feeling that they haven’t gotten the attention they deserve.

@gonnif says it best when he tells applicants to assume they’re rejected until their accepted.

 

[efle]

Sorry for the wall of texts friends.

Oh, I understand the phrase, but I was just saying that within this context, I don't think it's very useful. Right now, though, we're sort of arguing about what could be construed as a matter of opinion, based on what you personally believe is a privilege. In other words, you (+ @Goro) might not think that someone who earns a 3.8/515 deserves or has a right to an II; however, if I were running this process, and in an ideal world, I would make it such that those who earn the a preset metric of academics and EC's would at least get an interview. This would take many more medical schools; an "ideal" situation like this entails some economic "problems" as well; and above all, it's unlikely to ever happen.

So, really, I get what you're saying and appreciate the critique. I just disagree with you guys. I think that, indeed, those who exhibit the right mix of academics and EC's and so on do deserve II, and are entitled to—at the very least—a shot at admittance. Like I said though, this is a matter of opinion, and I take it that you (+ @Goro) disagree. And that's okay.

See above. I disagree. I think the notion of any career being a "privilege" is strange and disagreeable. I'd like to see that number increase, because I see the intrinsic value in higher education. Let's get everyone an opportunity to obtain a bachelors. An educated society is one in which I want to live. The economics of such an issue are beyond the scope of both of our bases of knowledge. I won't comment on it.

Note: my comment about increasing everyone's access to higher education does not mean that I'm passing judgment on those careers which do not require higher education. I have the utmost respect for every career; that was simply a little tangent.

I did. See my response to @efle above. In short, I believe that, in a sense, these people are in fact getting shafted. I do in fact believe that they deserve an interview. And moreover, I don't really think that entails that said person, who believes that they deserve an interview, is entitled in a negative sense, either. I understand that the process is initially one in which great negative selection must occur; if I were in charge, I'd change that. I think you are on morally weak ground if you argue the opposite, namely that you would, in an ideal world, limit the number of potential physicians accessible to the general public. This is what you would be doing if you'd preclude someone's chances of an II simply because you're holding on to a faulty notion of "privilege" and "rights."

I can see why you disagree with goro if you do think some people should be entitled to interviews! Though I believe other countries do use a system like that, if anything I think this is an example of why stats-based auto interviews don't make sense. If you are a ~3.8/515 with a Rhodes/Gates type award and a long balanced list of schools, and you are 2 for 35 in IIs in mid November, you are doing something wrong somewhere and the school is probably getting a lot more out of that interview slot by spending it somewhere else.

And do you really not think any career can best be described as a privilege? Like say a high up elected office. Def seems to me that a congressman is privileged, not entitled by their merits, to hold office

Edit: Would also add the bottleneck for public access to physicians has never been MD admissions standards.

 

[begoood95]

I can see why you disagree with goro if you do think some people should be entitled to interviews! Though I believe other countries do use a system like that, if anything I think this is an example of why stats-based auto interviews don't make sense. If you are a ~3.8/515 with a Rhodes/Gates type award and a long balanced list of schools, and you are 2 for 35 in IIs in mid November, you are doing something wrong somewhere and the school is probably getting a lot more out of that interview slot by spending it somewhere else.

And do you really not think any career can best be described as a privilege? Like say a high up elected office. Def seems to me that a congressman is privileged, not entitled by their merits, to hold office

Edit: Would also add the bottleneck for public access to physicians has never been MD admissions standards.

If you and I were creating a system that automatically selects applicants without human eyes, then we would need, at the very least and as a starting criteria, selection on the basis of stats. That's really the nature of the beast for medical school, right? If you can't "prove" yourself in undergrad and obtain at least a certain GPA and certain MCAT, due to risk, we wouldn't be able to admit said applicant. (Though, ideally, we'd be able to account for difficulty of the degree obtained—I'll accept an engineer with a 3.5 over an underwater basket-weaving major with a 4.0; though, of course, we'd have to account for the BW major who obtained a 510+ on their MCAT as well, because, of course, it's the great equalizer.) After that, we'd need to select for EC's. We'd need a program which analyzes hours and type of activity, and match that to our medical school's mission. We'd need to select for writing proficiency as well, and this might need human eyes—but I'm pretty sure a program could do this as well. Then, we fire up the program, it analyzes applicants according to our pre-set criteria—of which are clearly delineated on our website—and the II roll out.

I agree that you're definitely doing something wrong if you've got the achievements outlined above and not many interviews! Though I think it's fair to say that such applicants with those achievements which do not obtain many interviews are few and far in between, though I could be wrong.

Yeah, without putting too much thought into it, I think I'd extend the logic to virtually all careers. With the congressman example: so—correct me if I'm wrong—you're saying that this elected official is not entitled to (i.e., does not contain the privilege for) said office in virtue of their merits? Hmm...then how else would we deem them fit to serve? Lol, god knows what happens when we elect random individuals of which exhibit no merit whatsoever that would entitle them to hold office. What do you mean when you say that a congress(wo)man is privileged to hold office?

(Warning, opinion follows) I think we ought to seriously consider someone's merit in the case of holding governmental offices. I believe that when we allow anyone with any set of perspectives and merits to hold office, society goes astray. Such a political opinion is hard to stomach, because it does run against a widely held western paradigm of "anyone can hold office" and "we have the right to vote for anyone"—but, IMO, in an ideal world, our government would be run efficiently and for the betterment of the society that it serves. In such a nation, we couldn't allow just anyone to hold office.

 

[efle]

If you and I were creating a system that automatically selects applicants without human eyes, then we would need, at the very least and as a starting criteria, selection on the basis of stats. That's really the nature of the beast for medical school, right? If you can't "prove" yourself in undergrad and obtain at least a certain GPA and certain MCAT, due to risk, we wouldn't be able to admit said applicant. (Though, ideally, we'd be able to account for difficulty of the degree obtained—I'll accept an engineer with a 3.5 over an underwater basket-weaving major with a 4.0; though, of course, we'd have to account for the BW major who obtained a 510+ on their MCAT as well, because, of course, it's the great equalizer.) After that, we'd need to select for EC's. We'd need a program which analyzes hours and type of activity, and match that to our medical school's mission. We'd need to select for writing proficiency as well, and this might need human eyes—but I'm pretty sure a program could do this as well. Then, we fire up the program, it analyzes applicants according to our pre-set criteria—of which are clearly delineated on our website—and the II roll out.

I agree that you're definitely doing something wrong if you've got the achievements outlined above and not many interviews! Though I think it's fair to say that such applicants with those achievements which do not obtain many interviews are few and far in between, though I could be wrong.

I do not think we yet have the ability to automate the assessment of LoRs, secondary responses, personal statements or that special magic of having an "application narrative". If we could score all that with some kind of objective robot, then sure I'm a fan of your system, so long as someone with solid grades, scores, and accomplishments can still be ruled out for weakness in these kinds of areas.

Yeah, without putting too much thought into it, I think I'd extend the logic to virtually all careers. With the congressman example: so—correct me if I'm wrong—you're saying that this elected official is not entitled to (i.e., does not contain the privilege for) said office in virtue of their merits? Hmm...then how else would we deem them fit to serve? Lol, god knows what happens when we elect random individuals of which exhibit no merit whatsoever that would entitle them to hold office. What do you mean when you say that a congress(wo)man is privileged to hold office?

(Warning, opinion follows) I think we ought to seriously consider someone's merit in the case of holding governmental offices. I believe that when we allow anyone with any set of perspectives and merits to hold office, society goes astray. Such a political opinion is hard to stomach, because it does run against a widely held western paradigm of "anyone can hold office" and "we have the right to vote for anyone"—but, IMO, in an ideal world, our government would be run efficiently and for the betterment of the society that it serves. In such a nation, we couldn't allow just anyone to hold office.

When I say having a certain career is a privilege, I mean there are many that would like to have that job, and only a subset are granted access to it after they're judged on important, subjective criteria by others. No matter how impressive someone's resume is at whatever they did beforehand, nobody should be guaranteed a congress seat, or even a spot on the ballot, without first having the public hear their answers to important questions and so on. And I suppose I'd say it's a privilege to be chosen to fill a role in an administration too, e.g. it is a privilege to serve in a presidential cabinet, not something they are due or entitled to. In the same way, I don't care how great you did in college, or on the MCAT, or what scholarships you've won, it is not an injustice to you for a medical school to skip over you if they find your overall app too flawed in other ways.

 

[CloverBale]

why are we arguing none of us are in med school

 

[MareNostrummm]

why are we arguing none of us are in med school

..Yet?

 

[onyxbell]

why are we arguing none of us are in med school

Precisely because we are not that's why we have the time, and the need for distractions.

 

[calivianya]

Edit: Would also add the bottleneck for public access to physicians has never been MD admissions standards.

Some schools are starting to, at least. I just interviewed at a school last week that's dedicated to providing public access to physicians, and I got the stank eye from my interviewer when he asked me how many PCPs I've shadowed and I replied that I've shadowed specialists.

I'm applying there with a MCAT almost 10 points greater than last year's median matriculated student MCAT, and after my interview, I can say I don't think I'm getting in. Grades/MCAT mean absolutely nothing to some schools. I feel like each school is looking for its own particular thing, and if you don't have that exact thing, you're dead in the water regardless of stats.