2018 Main Residency Match, By The Numbers

[deleted547631]

---

Members don't see this ad.

http://www.nrmp.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/2018-Match-by-the-Numbers.pdf

 

[Osteoth]

Thanks for this.

Very interestingly I've just learned about how the past year's match affects the future year's. If there's alot of unfilled positions the year before you, people are going to over-interview the next year.

Consequently, in an entirely selfish way, I want the year before mine to be a blood bath.

 

[Ms Procrastinator]

Thanks for this.

Very interestingly I've just learned about how the past year's match affects the future year's. If there's alot of unfilled positions the year before you, people are going to over-interview the next year.

Consequently, in an entirely selfish way, I want the year before mine to be a blood bath.

 

[trs88]

Did they pull the pdf? I get a "Sorry page not found" when I click the link.

 

[spacegun]

Did they pull the pdf? I get a "Sorry page not found" when I click the link.

I'm not sure if this is the whole thing, I only see 1 page, this is what I see:

 

[trs88]

I'm not sure if this is the whole thing, I only see 1 page, this is what I see:

I don't even see the 1 page, it's all missing. Thank you for posting it 🙂

 

[ERDOC555]

Nevermind.

 

[deleted547631]

Link is live again!

 

[Goro]

Did you notice that there were 1300 new PGY1 positions this year? Brand new ACGME? or AOA -> ACGME????

 

[gyngyn]

Did you notice that there were 1300 new PGY1 positions this year? Brand new ACGME? or AOA -> ACGME????

This includes the AOA programs that have been approved for ACGME.

 

[Money Moniker]

This includes the AOA programs that have been approved for ACGME.

Is there a way to see how many of the new positions are from newly accredited AOA programs vs genuine new ACGME slots? I just want to soothe some of my neuroticism over a couple of my specialties of interest showing massive growth in the number of residency spots in recent years.

 

[DubbiDoctor]

Is there a way to see how many of the new positions are from newly accredited AOA programs vs genuine new ACGME slots? I just want to soothe some of my neuroticism over a couple of my specialties of interest showing massive growth in the number of residency spots in recent years.

I think the increase in ED positions is mostly due to AOA.

 

[gyngyn]

Is there a way to see how many of the new positions are from newly accredited AOA programs vs genuine new ACGME slots? I just want to soothe some of my neuroticism over a couple of my specialties of interest showing massive growth in the number of residency spots in recent years.

A person who had access to ERAS two years in a row who knew which programs were previously AOA and which were new ACGME could do it. I don't know anyone who fits this description, however (besides folks at the NRMP).

 

[Rekt]

A person who had access to ERAS two years in a row who knew which programs were previously AOA and which were new ACGME could do it. I don't know anyone who fits this description, however (besides folks at the NRMP).

http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/E...ments/Transitioned-Programs-Opportunities.pdf

It won't tell you number of slots, but this is a list of programs that were AOA which are now ACGME.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

http://osteopathic.org/inside-aoa/E...ments/Transitioned-Programs-Opportunities.pdf

It won't tell you number of slots, but this is a list of programs that were AOA which are now ACGME.

To add to this, from my understanding this list is programs that did NOT participate in the AOA match therefore all of these slots would be considered new ACGME positions. If someone was truly ambitious to find out they could go to the website of all of these programs and add up the number of spots.

 

[libertyyne]

To add to this, from my understanding this list is programs that did NOT participate in the AOA match therefore all of these slots would be considered new ACGME positions. If someone was truly ambitious to find out they could go to the website of all of these programs and add up the number of spots.

there were 700~Fewer AOA residency spots but 1400+ acgme spots. I wonder if the residencies that converted increased positions or net decreased positions and the growth is occuring outside of converted spots.

 

[Scrubs101]

there were 700~Fewer AOA residency spots but 1400+ acgme spots. I wonder if the residencies that converted increased positions or net decreased positions and the growth is occuring outside of converted spots.

Based on some of my schools spots, our IM, EM, and FM, etc programs are growing in size but it seems somethings like GS are down sizing post-merger. Unsure if this is a trend or not, just did a quick look

 

[DubbiDoctor]

Based on some of my schools spots, our IM, EM, and FM, etc programs are growing in size but it seems somethings like GS are down sizing post-merger. Unsure if this is a trend or not, just did a quick look

I think med students are simply growing less interested in GS, owing to its brutal hours, reputation for malignancy and unimpressive pay (less than anesthesia, a non-competitive lifestyle specialty).

 

[libertyyne]

I think med students are simply growing less interested in GS, owing to its brutal hours, reputation for malignancy and unimpressive pay (less than anesthesia, a non-competitive lifestyle specialty).

I don't think residencies give two damns about student interest . We would have seen infinite growth in derm otherwise.

 

[libertyyne]

Based on some of my schools spots, our IM, EM, and FM, etc programs are growing in size but it seems somethings like GS are down sizing post-merger. Unsure if this is a trend or not, just did a quick look

I wonder if it easier to meet acgme requirements for those fields.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

there were 700~Fewer AOA residency spots but 1400+ acgme spots. I wonder if the residencies that converted increased positions or net decreased positions and the growth is occuring outside of converted spots.

This would be interesting to find out. It could be a mix of both.

 

[Scrubs101]

I wonder if it easier to meet acgme requirements for those fields.

Thats my current hypothesis, but i honestly have no idea. A few surgical programs went up a spot or two, but for most of the AOA surgical programs with initial accred that are staying on the AOA side till 2020 I cant seem to see a change in # of spots if any. Will be interesting to see as time goes on what happens to the rest of the AOA programs, it would suck to lose em since even way back in 2014 things like GS, ortho, and ENT had 40-60% match rates on the AOA side. Could become a blood bath for DOs with a craving to get behind a scalpel.

 

[libertyyne]

Thats my current hypothesis, but i honestly have no idea. A few surgical programs went up a spot or two, but for most of the AOA surgical programs with initial accred that are staying on the AOA side till 2020 I cant seem to see a change in # of spots if any. Will be interesting to see as time goes on what happens to the rest of the AOA programs, it would suck to lose em since even way back in 2014 things like GS, ortho, and ENT had 40-60% match rates on the AOA side. Could become a blood bath for DOs with a craving to get behind a scalpel.

I never quite understood how aoa programs went unfilled for such things.

 

[Scrubs101]

I never quite understood how aoa programs went unfilled for such things.

Not really sure, some programs are approved for say 3 residents a year but explicitly only take say 2 a year. For the past five year its seems GS usually has 5-10 unfilled spots, Ortho maybe 5 max, and ENT 0-2 unfilled spots. Cant tell if this is pre or post scamble though.

AOA programs typically interview less people as well it seems (15-25 for programs with 1-4 spots, which i think? is a smaller amount than acgme programs interview not sure), so perhaps just cards not falling the right way due to smaller rank lists?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

it would suck to lose em since even way back in 2014 things like GS, ortho, and ENT had 40-60% match rates on the AOA side.

These numbers were severely deflated by really bad applicants throwing apps to specialties they had no business applying to hoping their auditions and one interview would get them a spot. In 2014 the GS average for COMLEX was a 499. the ratio of applicants to seats for ortho was under 1.5/1 if I remember correctly. Almost all decent applicants found a spot. ENT is a little different due to the small number of spots, but even then it fluctuates from year to year as there was one year there were only 19 applicants for 16 neurosurgery spots. Auditions were HUGE in these fields.

I never quite understood how aoa programs went unfilled for such things.

In the AOA world it was permissible to tell an applicant where they stood with your program at the end of audition season and essentially come to an oral agreement. I know there are ortho programs that would basically come to a handshake agreement for their 3 spots with 3 different applicants and then only rank those 3 applicants. If one of those applicants decided to renege at the last minute then you have an unfilled spot. The AOA world of matching is very different then ACGME, and I think these programs, and all DO applicants, are going to have to adjust. It wasn’t uncommon to only have 4-6 programs ranked in a super competitive specialty and not even be concerned that you won’t match.

 

[libertyyne]

Not really sure, some programs are approved for say 3 residents a year but explicitly only take say 2 a year. For the past five year its seems GS usually has 5-10 unfilled spots, Ortho maybe 5 max, and ENT 0-2 unfilled spots. Cant tell if this is pre or post scamble though.

AOA programs typically interview less people as well it seems (15-25 for programs with 1-4 spots, which i think? is a smaller amount than acgme programs interview not sure), so perhaps just cards not falling the right way due to smaller rank lists?

These numbers were severely deflated by really bad applicants throwing apps to specialties they had no business applying to hoping their auditions and one interview would get them a spot. In 2014 the GS average for COMLEX was a 499. the ratio of applicants to seats for ortho was under 1.5/1 if I remember correctly. Almost all decent applicants found a spot. ENT is a little different due to the small number of spots, but even then it fluctuates from year to year as there was one year there were only 19 applicants for 16 neurosurgery spots. Auditions were HUGE in these fields.



In the AOA world it was permissible to tell an applicant where they stood with your program at the end of audition season and essentially come to an oral agreement. I know there are ortho programs that would basically come to a handshake agreement for their 3 spots with 3 different applicants and then only rank those 3 applicants. If one of those applicants decided to renege at the last minute then you have an unfilled spot. The AOA world of matching is very different then ACGME, and I think these programs, and all DO applicants, are going to have to adjust. It wasn’t uncommon to only have 4-6 programs ranked in a super competitive specialty and not even be concerned that you won’t match.

That is crazy sauce. Seems like going DO might have been easier to match certain competitive specialties.

 

[Scrubs101]

That is crazy sauce. Seems like going DO might have been easier to match certain competitive specialties.

Pre-merger it was definitely a thing to overcome deficits such as lower board scores or no research by being an all-star on the wards and networking your butt off. These types of applicants will most likely hurt the most post merger IMO(but i could see them still happening if AOA residencies keep their current match tactics), the super star DOs that stayed AOA to avoid the risk of the ACGME match will probably start branching out and matching more current/historically ACGME places post match.

Anecdotally we had an ortho resident give us a talk the other day and he mentioned he interviewed at places like u washington, which makes me assume he was a stellar applicant(didnt ask much about this), and he’s at an aoa residency currently (a very good one from what ive heard). These types of applicants wont have to choose b/t acgme vs aoa post merger which will be a plus for them.

The merger will definitely switch things up thats for sure, will be interesting to see just how much.

 

[libertyyne]

Pre-merger it was definitely a thing to overcome deficits such as lower board scores or no research by being an all-star on the wards and networking your butt off. These types of applicants will most likely hurt the most post merger IMO(but i could see them still happening if AOA residencies keep their current match tactics), the super star DOs that stayed AOA to avoid the risk of the ACGME match will probably start branching out and matching more current/historically ACGME places post match.

Anecdotally we had an ortho resident give us a talk the other day and he mentioned he interviewed at places like u washington, which makes me assume he was a stellar applicant(didnt ask much about this), and he’s at an aoa residency currently (a very good one from what ive heard). These types of applicants wont have to choose b/t acgme vs aoa post merger which will be a plus for them.

The merger will definitely switch things up thats for sure, will be interesting to see just how much.

This is definately a thing for home programs or aways for people without perfect scores on the MD side too, but I just dont see DO superstars outcompeteing the MD superstars since research is plentiful and the clinical education more consistent. I think home program advantages coupled with research accessibility will still hurt even the DOs at this level. interviewing at places if different compared to being high on the rank order list. But thats just my opinion and it will be interesting to see. I remember SouthernSurgeon commenting on this exact topic regarding resume differences between superstars from the two pools.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

but I just dont see DO superstars outcompeteing the MD superstars since research is plentiful and the clinical education more consistent.

It depends on how you define “MD superstar.” Overall I agree but there are still cases where it doesn’t fit. If it were 100% true we wouldn’t have DOs matching Mayo for NS, Ortho, or plastics. The UW ortho match is very I pressive this year, as well as the NYIT Neurosurgery match.

As an anecdote I personally know someone with multiple publications in the top ortho journal. And that’s just ortho. Overall their research CV can go toe to toe with almost any MD applicant in the country. Obviously an outlier but an example of how it can happen for a DO who applies themself accordingly and gets a little lucky.

I don’t think we will see a huge swing in DOs matching at crazy places, but I do think we will still be surprised at where some of these superstars land. A lot of this is unknown because most of these applicants simply matched AOA and it will be interesting to see where these students land once they are consistently matching through the ACGME match.

I remember SouthernSurgeon commenting on this exact topic regarding resume differences between superstars from the two pools.

I remember that comment. I think it was more about the two pools in general, not necessarily just the superstars. While much more uncommon in the DO world, there are a few with very impressive CVs.

 

[Scrubs101]

This is definately a thing for home programs or aways for people without perfect scores on the MD side too, but I just dont see DO superstars outcompeteing the MD superstars since research is plentiful and the clinical education more consistent. I think home program advantages coupled with research accessibility will still hurt even the DOs at this level. interviewing at places if different compared to being high on the rank order list. But thats just my opinion and it will be interesting to see. I remember SouthernSurgeon commenting on this exact topic regarding resume differences between superstars from the two pools.

Oh i totally agree, the AOA match for DOs was somewhat similar to the leg up given when your school has a home program. More willing to looks past deficits and take someone you know well. My point was more along the lines of saying that there are some DOs with resumes that can compete, if a place is willing to look at them. They are no doubt few and far between, but it'll be more evident in years to come they are not as few as we previously thought.

Also will be interesting to see what places end up actually opening up to/taking these few superstars now that these applicants are going for non-AOA residencies, for example UW ortho taking the ATSU DO in addition to my anecdote make me believe they may be one of those places open to taking DOs. Time and more DOs applying ACGME will help delineate which places actually consider DOs, which may be another plus of the merger for us.

Having a home program with access to research in your field of interest and prominent people in the field that will put out a good word for you is incredibly valuable. I would never advocate for someone to go to a school without these resources if they were interested in something competitive, given the choice of course.

 

[Money Moniker]

A person who had access to ERAS two years in a row who knew which programs were previously AOA and which were new ACGME could do it. I don't know anyone who fits this description, however (besides folks at the NRMP).

I did the next best thing, which is to figure out the number of AOA PGY1 positions just prior to the merger process coming under way. In the case of EM, in the 2014-2015 year there were 600 total EM residents, meaning 150 PGY1 slots (since AOA programs at that point were all 4 years).
http://www.jem-journal.com/article/S0736-4679(15)00952-X/fulltext

On the other hand, the number of ACGME PGY1 spots increased from 1780 to 2280 from the 2014 match to the 2018 match. In other words, out of the 500 increase, we have 350 brand new PGY1 slots at the very minimum, since there have only ever been 150 AOA slots that could have been rolled into ACGME to begin with. That's a huge increase in just 4 years.

 

[IM-2019]

I think med students are simply growing less interested in GS, owing to its brutal hours, reputation for malignancy and unimpressive pay (less than anesthesia, a non-competitive lifestyle specialty).

I'd argue that GS is still more competitive than anesthesia, radiology, or EM (EM has weird SLOE wackery though). Look at how quickly match percent drops off if you have a below median Step 1 and apply GS.

 

[libertyyne]

I'd argue that GS is still more competitive than anesthesia, radiology, or EM (EM has weird SLOE wackery though). Look at how quickly match percent drops off if you have a below median Step 1 and apply GS.

Which is crazy considering the lifestyle blows.

 

[IM-2019]

Which is crazy considering the lifestyle blows.

Some people just REALLY want to be surgeons. Surg subs average ~80th percentile stats, and there are fields in gen surg fellowships that don't have integrated routes, like pediatrics, surg onc, trauma, breast, etc. Lifestyle can also be decent afterwards, and gen surg still makes like 350k even without fellowships

 

[Mad Jack]

I think the increase in ED positions is mostly due to AOA.

EM had a ton of AOA residencies