2019 DO Sub-Internship Season - Plans and Tips For Certain Locations?

[Blunt Dissection]

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Hey all, I thought with the 2019 sub-I season coming up that it'd be interesting to hear where other DO students are trying to sub-I. Also, if any current 4th years or graduates have rotated through a particular service/site that an upcoming 4th year will be auditioning at, I'm sure the advice on how to prep or the atmosphere would really be incredibly appreciated. To keep your anonymity, I'd recommend just sharing your location and service and not listing when you'll be there.

For myself, I've gotten offers from 3 programs so far:

Mayo Clinic - general surgery
UCSF-Fresno - burn surgery
UCSD - burn surgery

I'm pretty certain that sub-I season is going to be the most exhausting part of medical school, but I'm stoked for the experience.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Hey all, I thought with the 2019 sub-I season coming up that it'd be interesting to hear where other DO students are trying to sub-I. Also, if any current 4th years or graduates have rotated through a particular service/site that an upcoming 4th year will be auditioning at, I'm sure the advice on how to prep or the atmosphere would really be incredibly appreciated. To keep your anonymity, I'd recommend just sharing your location and service and not listing when you'll be there.

For myself, I've gotten offers from 3 programs so far:

Mayo Clinic - general surgery
UCSF-Fresno - burn surgery
UCSD - burn surgery

I'm pretty certain that sub-I season is going to be the most exhausting part of medical school, but I'm stoked for the experience.

Dang cuz, this is more of a humblebrag on your part, but good going fam. I too have [rotations] in [university programs] in [slightly more competative than FM specialty] in [not so competitive region].

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Dang cuz, this is more of a humblebrag on your part, but good going fam. I too have [rotations] in [university programs] in [slightly competative specialty] in [not so competitive region].

I wish scoring an audition was enough. My biggest fear unfortunately is to work really hard, but to have not stood a chance before I even get there, a reality that I think we all have to take the leap of faith on.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I wish scoring an audition was enough. My biggest fear unfortunately is to work really hard, but to have not stood a chance before I even get there, a reality that I think we all have to take the leap of faith on.

I feel you, but you did at least get them to swipe right. I know I am going to be behind the eight ball when rotating as I basically have had less than a day with a resident team so far. But as my buddy used to say 'sometimes, the only way you get better at the game is getting your @$$ kicked.' So off I go to a residency that is probably a bit above my pay grade to try and impress them. I also have a community program that I will do later. So I am not putting all my rotation eggs in the reach basket.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I was actually hoping someone would post some tips in here, surely those above us have some.

 

[Roark10]

Fourth year - matched into general surgery so this is all kind of specific to surgery. First and foremost - I think it’s best to do Sub-Is for yourself. I did four - and while there are positives, it’s a really really hard thing to do. On the opposite end, I had friends who did none in surgery and did fine applying. Either is fine for applying so do what’s best for you in a not so easy time in life. With that said, Sub-Is can certainly get you interviews at places that would not interview you otherwise - make sure you’re noticed (express interest, set up a meeting with the PD, etc). One thing I did not know before applying is that geography is a major factor. Programs want happy residents that have good support systems. So if you have no ties to an area a sub-I can help. Again, on the flip side - you can stab yourself in the foot because it can be hard to stick out. Expectations will vary at different places and you’re going to be asked to do things you’ve never done that a resident has done 1000 times and seems really easy to them - you can imagine that doesn’t look the best through no fault of your own. Working hard and doing your best is great, but most Sub-Is will be doing just that. there are negatives and positives and it’s more about the experience for you and preparing you for intern year (in my opinion). As for location, be realistic about your stats and it never hurts if they have accepted DOs in the past. Hope this helped a bit!

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Fourth year - matched into general surgery so this is all kind of specific to surgery. First and foremost - I think it’s best to do Sub-Is for yourself. I did four - and while there are positives, it’s a really really hard thing to do. On the opposite end, I had friends who did none in surgery and did fine applying. Either is fine for applying so do what’s best for you in a not so easy time in life. With that said, Sub-Is can certainly get you interviews at places that would not interview you otherwise - make sure you’re noticed (express interest, set up a meeting with the PD, etc). One thing I did not know before applying is that geography is a major factor. Programs want happy residents that have good support systems. So if you have no ties to an area a sub-I can help. Again, on the flip side - you can stab yourself in the foot because it can be hard to stick out. Expectations will vary at different places and you’re going to be asked to do things you’ve never done that a resident has done 1000 times and seems really easy to them - you can imagine that doesn’t look the best through no fault of your own. Working hard and doing your best is great, but most Sub-Is will be doing just that. there are negatives and positives and it’s more about the experience for you and preparing you for intern year (in my opinion). As for location, be realistic about your stats and it never hurts if they have accepted DOs in the past. Hope this helped a bit!

Thanks for sharing and definitely helpful. I think 100% that the bold bit is true and it is the portion that makes doing sub-Is at competitive programs difficult. I'd like to think that my endurance and clinical reasoning abilities have gotten pretty good over the past year, but I've never been the student that could memorize the answer to every pimp question out of a book. Also, while I can do some basic suturing, the extent of my technical skill has been closing laparoscopic incisions. I can throw all the knots I want at home on training sets and chicken skins, but doing it while you have the pressure of anesthesia waking the patient up, your preceptor watching you, and the scrub techs thinking you're going to screw something up is a totally different game that no amount of home practice could recreate. How did you prepare for this?

 

[DNC127]

Hey all, I thought with the 2019 sub-I season coming up that it'd be interesting to hear where other DO students are trying to sub-I. Also, if any current 4th years or graduates have rotated through a particular service/site that an upcoming 4th year will be auditioning at, I'm sure the advice on how to prep or the atmosphere would really be incredibly appreciated. To keep your anonymity, I'd recommend just sharing your location and service and not listing when you'll be there.

For myself, I've gotten offers from 3 programs so far:

Mayo Clinic - general surgery
UCSF-Fresno - burn surgery
UCSD - burn surgery

I'm pretty certain that sub-I season is going to be the most exhausting part of medical school, but I'm stoked for the experience.

Weird flex but ok.

 

[Cheeni17]

I think you could at least impress your attending with the ability to cover up a brag as a question. Usually people hold out till they match but I guess sub I brags are the best an oms3 can get

 

[QueenJames]

It's common sense by now dude.

You're at the tail end of your third year and don't know how to just shut up, show up, do your work, and don't be a freak during rotations?

Don't be this weird during your auditions and you SHOULD be ok.

Chillax homie.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Weird flex but ok.

I think you could at least impress your attending with the ability to cover up a brag as a question. Usually people hold out till they match but I guess sub I brags are the best an oms3 can get

I've never been particularly great at flexing, worst so now after these few years of med school. I'd be bragging if I had a Step 1 score of 250, 20+ publications, and LORs from hotshot academic docs because then just by numbers alone, I'd likely get offers. My stats are nowhere in that category however. I have an average Step 1 score, come from a "low tier" DO school, and while I have no idea what my class rank is, it's also nothing to write home about. The bulk of my 3rd year have been in rural locations with only 1 rotation where I was with a residency service.

The question is also a very legitimate one. Sub-Is are nothing like 3rd year rotations as evident by what @Roark10 shared. How do you stand out on your sub-I when you're expected to do something you've never done or seen? During 3rd year, when I didn't know how to remove staples, it didn't hurt me any to ask. That same innocent question during a 4th year sub-I would probably throw the whole month out the window. What if I were asked to go put EKG leads on a person and hook it up? I still haven't done that.

Furthermore, each place has its own personality. Some hospitals are very chill while others you'd get snapped at because you had your face mask on wrong, but there's hardly ever any discussion threads for things like this. It'd be nice to get a heads up before going into a place where the nursing staff hates having rotating students.

I mean, unless I'm the only DO student who feels completely unprepared to be auditioning against my MD counterparts. You two may be more prepared than I am for sub-Is.

It's common sense by now dude.

You're at the tail end of your third year and don't know how to just shut up, show up, do your work, and don't be a freak during rotations?

Don't be this weird during your auditions and you SHOULD be ok.

Chillax homie.

Being a normal, not weird person is fine. People like to be able to work and interact with others, that's common sense and while that gets you far, I'd imagine that a majority of the students that will be auditioning are normal, nice people. If I were to just be a normal pleasant person, would that be enough to make me stand out and if not, what else do I do? I don't think that's nearly as common sense

 

[DNC127]

I've never been particularly great at flexing, worst so now after these few years of med school. I'd be bragging if I had a Step 1 score of 250, 20+ publications, and LORs from hotshot academic docs because then just by numbers alone, I'd likely get offers. My stats are nowhere in that category however. I have an average Step 1 score, come from a "low tier" DO school, and while I have no idea what my class rank is, it's also nothing to write home about. The bulk of my 3rd year have been in rural locations with only 1 rotation where I was with a residency service.

The question is also a very legitimate one. Sub-Is are nothing like 3rd year rotations as evident by what @Roark10 shared. How do you stand out on your sub-I when you're expected to do something you've never done or seen? During 3rd year, when I didn't know how to remove staples, it didn't hurt me any to ask. That same innocent question during a 4th year sub-I would probably throw the whole month out the window. What if I were asked to go put EKG leads on a person and hook it up? I still haven't done that.

Furthermore, each place has its own personality. Some hospitals are very chill while others you'd get snapped at because you had your face mask on wrong, but there's hardly ever any discussion threads for things like this. It'd be nice to get a heads up before going into a place where the nursing staff hates having rotating students.

I mean, unless I'm the only DO student who feels completely unprepared to be auditioning against my MD counterparts. You two may be more prepared than I am for sub-Is.



Being a normal, not weird person is fine. People like to be able to work and interact with others, that's common sense and while that gets you far, I'd imagine that a majority of the students that will be auditioning are normal, nice people. If I were to just be a normal pleasant person, would that be enough to make me stand out and if not, what else do I do? I don't think that's nearly as common sense

Just stop bro. I didn't read what you wrote, but the fact that you wrote such a long response proves you don't get it. Succeeding on an audition is common sense. Be likeable, work hard, and have a good knowledge base.

 

[Roark10]

Thanks for sharing and definitely helpful. I think 100% that the bold bit is true and it is the portion that makes doing sub-Is at competitive programs difficult. I'd like to think that my endurance and clinical reasoning abilities have gotten pretty good over the past year, but I've never been the student that could memorize the answer to every pimp question out of a book. Also, while I can do some basic suturing, the extent of my technical skill has been closing laparoscopic incisions. I can throw all the knots I want at home on training sets and chicken skins, but doing it while you have the pressure of anesthesia waking the patient up, your preceptor watching you, and the scrub techs thinking you're going to screw something up is a totally different game that no amount of home practice could recreate. How did you prepare for this?

Don't be scared to ask for help, I never really intended to give you that impression. It's totally okay and don't do anything you're uncomfortable doing. Most of what they are all saying is right, having the right attitude is way more important than any skills at the level of a medical student.

As far as suturing, I'm no authority and its still something I'm working on. I think it's something you really, really solidify intern year. It's hard to simulate human skin so I empathize with that. Here are some things that I did/do and you can see if it helps you.

1. First, Lap ports are not easy. I dislike them more than larger incisions. If you go over to the surgery forum you'll see a thread asking about closing 5 mm incisions. I personally don't like closing them just with 1 inverted interrupted, I don't think it looks good. After the guidance of some residents, I close them with a running subQ. I think it looks better, and its good practice for larger incisions. Suturing is not one of those tasks I was referring to that it will look bad if you struggle. Your attending will usually scrub out and it will be you and a resident. This is where you really get better and if you have the right attitude, residents will be more than glad to give you tips. You should be able to tie knots efficiently and it sounds like you're already working on that. (I was talking more along the line of "go do this bedside I&D with no supervision and take this M3 with you").

2. A lot of surgery (again an opinion of someone who hasn't even started residency yet) is about setting yourself up for success. You can't really practice suturing too well, I agree. What you can do is get comfortable and familiarize yourself with instruments. Walk around with a needle driver, practice being able to open and close it without using the finger holes. Make having it in your hand feel very natural to you. When tying knots, set yourself up for success. If you know you only have to close two ports - don't worry about conserving suture and tie with a comfortable length. There's no point in tying with short string if you really don't have to. You'll learn as you go.

3. Back to just regular advice - be helpful and respectful in the OR. Take the bed out of the OR, bring it back in after the case. Help move them. Get some warm blankets for your patient. Shave them before the procedure without being asked to. Ask permission before picking up any instrument from the Mayo stand. You get the picture, basic OR etiquette will go a long way and will alleviate your concerns of angering staff and anesthesia. Attendings and residents notice too.

4. In general, just help the intern out. It seems like you're rotating at some large places (I don't really know anything about them). The patient census can get pretty big at some places. Know everything about your patients. Double-check the residents work. Are they on the right DVT prophylaxis? Did they get pre-op antibiotics? Stuff like that. If you notice a mistake, bring it up to the intern/junior privately and not in front of their senior/attending.



I understand, not all third year rotations are created equal in the DO world and some don't really get that surgery service experience. That's okay, you will be fine. Just keep working hard.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Just stop bro. I didn't read what you wrote, but the fact that you wrote such a long response proves you don't get it. Succeeding on an audition is common sense. Be likeable, work hard, and have a good knowledge base.

I mean, I probably don't. If you do get it though, more power to you and you'll probably kill it on your audition. I don't feel like I'll be bad on my audition, but I don't know if I could walk away saying I killed it. I know I've only gotten as far as I have because I've gotten good tips and tricks along the way.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Don't be scared to ask for help, I never really intended to give you that impression. It's totally okay and don't do anything you're uncomfortable doing. Most of what they are all saying is right, having the right attitude is way more important than any skills at the level of a medical student.

As far as suturing, I'm no authority and its still something I'm working on. I think it's something you really, really solidify intern year. It's hard to simulate human skin so I empathize with that. Here are some things that I did/do and you can see if it helps you.

1. First, Lap ports are not easy. I dislike them more than larger incisions. If you go over to the surgery forum you'll see a thread asking about closing 5 mm incisions. I personally don't like closing them just with 1 inverted interrupted, I don't think it looks good. After the guidance of some residents, I close them with a running subQ. I think it looks better, and its good practice for larger incisions. Suturing is not one of those tasks I was referring to that it will look bad if you struggle. Your attending will usually scrub out and it will be you and a resident. This is where you really get better and if you have the right attitude, residents will be more than glad to give you tips. You should be able to tie knots efficiently and it sounds like you're already working on that. (I was talking more along the line of "go do this bedside I&D with no supervision and take this M3 with you").

2. A lot of surgery (again an opinion of someone who hasn't even started residency yet) is about setting yourself up for success. You can't really practice suturing too well, I agree. What you can do is get comfortable and familiarize yourself with instruments. Walk around with a needle driver, practice being able to open and close it without using the finger holes. Make having it in your hand feel very natural to you. When tying knots, set yourself up for success. If you know you only have to close two ports - don't worry about conserving suture and tie with a comfortable length. There's no point in tying with short string if you really don't have to. You'll learn as you go.

3. Back to just regular advice - be helpful and respectful in the OR. Take the bed out of the OR, bring it back in after the case. Help move them. Get some warm blankets for your patient. Shave them before the procedure without being asked to. Ask permission before picking up any instrument from the Mayo stand. You get the picture, basic OR etiquette will go a long way and will alleviate your concerns of angering staff and anesthesia. Attendings and residents notice too.

4. In general, just help the intern out. It seems like you're rotating at some large places (I don't really know anything about them). The patient census can get pretty big at some places. Know everything about your patients. Double-check the residents work. Are they on the right DVT prophylaxis? Did they get pre-op antibiotics? Stuff like that. If you notice a mistake, bring it up to the intern/junior privately and not in front of their senior/attending.



I understand, not all third year rotations are created equal in the DO world and some don't really get that surgery service experience. That's okay, you will be fine. Just keep working hard.

100% exactly the type of information I'm hoping for. As someone that's only had 1 residency based rotation, it helps a lot to know things like this. Great info!

 

[anon6134]

Guys, chill out. This is a legitimate question and if you truly have not done any of your third year with residency services then you are at a disadvantage compared to your MD counterparts who've had a year of that experience. Most of this is common sense and some of it you'd have no idea about unless you've been experiencing it.

As mentioned above, you are the med student and as a sub-I fourth year your job is to make the third year student look good and make any of the residents (ESPECIALLY your intern) look good. This means helping your intern out in any way you can without being obnoxious or obvious, teaching the third year whatever they need help with without anyone seeing or knowing you're doing it. This includes always having wound supplies, scissors, tape, gauze, whatever on you without being obvious or obnoxiously clunking it around. Please do not have crap falling out of your coat or pockets, its obnoxious and you look like a *****. If the intern is dressing a wound and you noticed they forgot to grab scissors or tape or whatever hand it to them when they need it. Figure out how to get the vitals from the ICU and help the intern with the list. Help the third year not look like a tool when they scrub (without being obnoxious or obvious). Offer to see the new ED consult without being obnoxious. Your goal is to be helpful without being obnoxious in any way if you haven't caught on.

Going with the above, do not speak to the attending unless they speak to you. A million students rotate through there and they don't care how your weekend was. Your friends are the intern and third year student

You are going to have no idea what the answer is to pimp questions all the time, your goal is to never miss the same question twice. Read

Figure out your EMR login during orientation or sometime prior to showing up your first day. No one is more useless than a med student who can't log into the computer to do the simplest of tasks. Usually you will have an orientation of some sort, just make sure you do your calling IT/password changes etc during this time and don't put it off until you actually need it.

Unless otherwise specified, wear a shirt and tie. Likewise, if you are told to wear casual to something (lecture, dinner) don't be the tool showing up in a tie.

Your white coat and stethoscope go everywhere you go. Don't show up to something assuming you're going to be in scrubs and not have your coat if someone tells you to put it on.

Do not ever "pimp" someone (3rd/4th year med students, interns, nursing students, doesn't matter). Don't do it. You're a student and you look like a *****

Every time you present a patient, it is expected you have thought out a reasonable assessment and plan and that you will include it in your presentation without being prompted

Likewise, know how to properly present a patient. The format of this will vary depending on the specialty, know what the norm for the specialty is and know how to do it correctly. Often this is the only time you have the opportunity to make an impression on your team. It is easy to look like a complete ***** in front of everyone if you don't know what you're doing here. And they'll remember you for it. Read this one again. Learn to present a patient in a well thought out, well formatted manner. This is imperative. If you haven't been rotating with residents, welcome. You will now be presenting patients to a team of 3-7 people, all who expect you to do this effortlessly and correctly every single time, every single day

Don't lie, if you forgot to palpate a dorsals pedis pulse on your vascular patient during pre-rounding, say you forgot. The time you lie about doing this is the time the patient is s/p B/L BKA and there is no explaining that. You're a student, it's still okay to forget things. Don't forgot a second time

Be a normal human being. You'll be around a lot and you don't ever want to come off as overbearing. On the same token, relax and have fun. You picked the specialty for a reason and you are about to have a ton of awesome experiences that will carry you through the interview season and the year

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Guys, chill out. This is a legitimate question and if you truly have not done any of your third year with residency services then you are at a disadvantage compared to your MD counterparts who've had a year of that experience. Most of this is common sense and some of it you'd have no idea about unless you've been experiencing it.

As mentioned above, you are the med student and as a sub-I fourth year your job is to make the third year student look good and make any of the residents (ESPECIALLY your intern) look good. This means helping your intern out in any way you can without being obnoxious or obvious, teaching the third year whatever they need help with without anyone seeing or knowing you're doing it. This includes always having wound supplies, scissors, tape, gauze, whatever on you without being obvious or obnoxiously clunking it around. Please do not have crap falling out of your coat or pockets, its obnoxious and you look like a *****. If the intern is dressing a wound and you noticed they forgot to grab scissors or tape or whatever hand it to them when they need it. Figure out how to get the vitals from the ICU and help the intern with the list. Help the third year not look like a tool when they scrub (without being obnoxious or obvious). Offer to see the new ED consult without being obnoxious. Your goal is to be helpful without being obnoxious in any way if you haven't caught on.

Going with the above, do not speak to the attending unless they speak to you. A million students rotate through there and they don't care how your weekend was. Your friends are the intern and third year student

You are going to have no idea what the answer is to pimp questions all the time, your goal is to never miss the same question twice. Read

Figure out your EMR login during orientation or sometime prior to showing up your first day. No one is more useless than a med student who can't log into the computer to do the simplest of tasks. Usually you will have an orientation of some sort, just make sure you do your calling IT/password changes etc during this time and don't put it off until you actually need it.

Unless otherwise specified, wear a shirt and tie. Likewise, if you are told to wear casual to something (lecture, dinner) don't be the tool showing up in a tie.

Your white coat and stethoscope go everywhere you go. Don't show up to something assuming you're going to be in scrubs and not have your coat if someone tells you to put it on.

Do not ever "pimp" someone (3rd/4th year med students, interns, nursing students, doesn't matter). Don't do it. You're a student and you look like a *****

Every time you present a patient, it is expected you have thought out a reasonable assessment and plan and that you will include it in your presentation without being prompted

Likewise, know how to properly present a patient. The format of this will vary depending on the specialty, know what the norm for the specialty is and know how to do it correctly. Often this is the only time you have the opportunity to make an impression on your team. It is easy to look like a complete ***** in front of everyone if you don't know what you're doing here. And they'll remember you for it. Read this one again. Learn to present a patient in a well thought out, well formatted manner. This is imperative. If you haven't been rotating with residents, welcome. You will now be presenting patients to a team of 3-7 people, all who expect you to do this effortlessly and correctly every single time, every single day

Don't lie, if you forgot to palpate a dorsals pedis pulse on your vascular patient during pre-rounding, say you forgot. The time you lie about doing this is the time the patient is s/p B/L BKA and there is no explaining that. You're a student, it's still okay to forget things. Don't forgot a second time

Be a normal human being. You'll be around a lot and you don't ever want to come off as overbearing. On the same token, relax and have fun. You picked the specialty for a reason and you are about to have a ton of awesome experiences that will carry you through the interview season and the year

This is really great and useful. I've read on various sites that if it is a site that you're truly interested in, that you should make it known early by making an appointment, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on who you should make this appointment with. Some advice blogs say the chief resident, others say the program director, and others say the section chief/department chair. My understanding from looking at a residency's webpage suggests that the program director and section chief/chair are usually 2 different people. Who in the hierarchy would you recommend to request an appointment with and at which point in the audition would you advise to do this? My thinking is that you should aim to get in touch with the chief resident shortly after orientation to introduce yourself and get an understanding of what he/she has in terms of expectations and duties for you? I have no idea when it would be best to meet with faculty. On that note, how would you go about asking for a letter of rec at the end of the sub-I? With my preceptor based experience, it was always easy to ask for a letter of recommendation because I was always just with the preceptor.

 

[Roark10]

This is really great and useful. I've read on various sites that if it is a site that you're truly interested in, that you should make it known early by making an appointment, but there doesn't seem to be a consensus on who you should make this appointment with. Some advice blogs say the chief resident, others say the program director, and others say the section chief/department chair. My understanding from looking at a residency's webpage suggests that the program director and section chief/chair are usually 2 different people. Who in the hierarchy would you recommend to request an appointment with and at which point in the audition would you advise to do this? My thinking is that you should aim to get in touch with the chief resident shortly after orientation to introduce yourself and get an understanding of what he/she has in terms of expectations and duties for you? I have no idea when it would be best to meet with faculty. On that note, how would you go about asking for a letter of rec at the end of the sub-I? With my preceptor based experience, it was always easy to ask for a letter of recommendation because I was always just with the preceptor.

Program director. Various residency programs rotate at different sites so you could barely, if at all, get Facetime with the PD. They honestly may not even know you’re there - lots of places do VSAS and residency applications completely separately. I don’t think it necessarily has to be early - do you think it’s more valuable to tell someone you want to do residency there before or after you’ve experienced what it could be like?

 

[Blunt Dissection]

Program director. Various residency programs rotate at different sites so you could barely, if at all, get Facetime with the PD. They honestly may not even know you’re there - lots of places do VSAS and residency applications completely separately. I don’t think it necessarily has to be early - do you think it’s more valuable to tell someone you want to do residency there before or after you’ve experienced what it could be like?

That's a really great point and I didn't even consider that. When it came to picking auditions, I chose mine based primarily off of reputation for training followed by location, so its easy to think "oh I want to go here" and then have my actual experience be completely different.

 

[anon6134]

The bigger programs will have a specific rotation/student coordinator who is responsible for the med students rotating through the service. This is usually an attending faculty member and they will deal with your end of rotation grading, setting up your schedule, etc. While you're there you can typically feel out the culture and how receptive attendings are to med students..usually the core faculty at the school are pretty receptive which is why they're in academics in the first place. Search these people out for LOR, mentoring, etc.

Have a conversation with a resident you feel comfortable with sometime early on in the rotation about your interest in the program and feel out how appropriate it would be to set up a meet and great with the PD. You would email the residency coordinator to set this up in most cases. The Chair is the head of the entire department (IE Chair of Surgery) and is out of your league and I can't think of a situation it would be appropriate to meet with them as a student

 

[Blunt Dissection]

The bigger programs will have a specific rotation/student coordinator who is responsible for the med students rotating through the service. This is usually an attending faculty member and they will deal with your end of rotation grading, setting up your schedule, etc. While you're there you can typically feel out the culture and how receptive attendings are to med students..usually the core faculty at the school are pretty receptive which is why they're in academics in the first place. Search these people out for LOR, mentoring, etc.

Have a conversation with a resident you feel comfortable with sometime early on in the rotation about your interest in the program and feel out how appropriate it would be to set up a meet and great with the PD. You would email the residency coordinator to set this up in most cases. The Chair is the head of the entire department (IE Chair of Surgery) and is out of your league and I can't think of a situation it would be appropriate to meet with them as a student

These are the intricacies that I never really had any exposure to. Coming from a school with no home hospital, our department "chairs" are simply responsible for teaching in whatever specialty they work in.

My other question is - is there a good way to balance having to leave for interviews without it negatively affecting your sub-I? My understanding is that invitations can go out as soon as the day after ERAS opens, but a majority of them start in November. I'm sure programs understand that students have to go for interviews, but at the same time, if you have 3-4 interviews falling in a single rotation, I can guess that it'll really hurt your chances at that institution.

 

[anon6134]

These are the intricacies that I never really had any exposure to. Coming from a school with no home hospital, our department "chairs" are simply responsible for teaching in whatever specialty they work in.

Sometimes this is true, but again every program is different and you'll have to feel it out. The Chair of whatever Department oversees the entire department in that hospital and as you can imagine the bigger the hospital, the bigger the responsibility. Sometimes the Chair is involved in the medical student activities and often they won't give you the time of day. Point being is that these massive tertiary care centers that most DO students don't rotate through have a completely different hierarchy than your community hospital where you may exchange texts with your attending, shoot the breeze while scrubbing, etc.

Interviews while auditioning is a tough situation. Obvious advice is don't audition when you will have the bulk of your interviews, but missing 1-2 days for an interview should be alright. Above that starts to put you in a bad situation

 

[BorntobeDO?]

So what is the thoughts here on releasing 4th year rotations on the transcripts. I plan on applying to a backup residency as well, but my 4th year will start out with 3-4 aways in my primary preference. I feel like if I release my rotations until September it will be very obvious what I am going for and my chances will be greatly decreased at any backup. But at the same time, all my legit university rotations won't happen till this summer. How much would I gain in showing my aways? Is it better to talk about aways during interviews, or to just release them on transcripts anyway?

 

[Roark10]

So what is the thoughts here on releasing 4th year rotations on the transcripts. I plan on applying to a backup residency as well, but my 4th year will start out with 3-4 aways in my primary preference. I feel like if I release my rotations until September it will be very obvious what I am going for and my chances will be greatly decreased at any backup. But at the same time, all my legit university rotations won't happen till this summer. How much would I gain in showing my aways? Is it better to talk about aways during interviews, or to just release them on transcripts anyway?

I can't really answer that, we did not have an option to have 4th year on our MSPE. I spoke about my sub-Is at every interview I had

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I can't really answer that, we did not have an option to have 4th year on our MSPE. I spoke about my sub-Is at every interview I had

Oh your right, the comments probably will be on my MSPE. I was just talking about the actual transcript that shows my courses. I don't know if my schools MSPE says what rotations the comments are from.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

So what is the thoughts here on releasing 4th year rotations on the transcripts. I plan on applying to a backup residency as well, but my 4th year will start out with 3-4 aways in my primary preference. I feel like if I release my rotations until September it will be very obvious what I am going for and my chances will be greatly decreased at any backup. But at the same time, all my legit university rotations won't happen till this summer. How much would I gain in showing my aways? Is it better to talk about aways during interviews, or to just release them on transcripts anyway?

On that note, this might be a controversial question, but how important is it to submit your ERAS on the first day that it is available to be sent out? If the date to submit is similar to this past year, it would open sometime around mid-September, meaning you'd likely be around only 3 sub-Is in. It also doesn't look like MSPEs get sent in until October, so would it hurt to wait a few weeks before submitting in order to get LoRs in? Can you even edit or add to your application after its submitted and if so, does it still help you at that point?

 

[Roark10]

On that note, this might be a controversial question, but how important is it to submit your ERAS on the first day that it is available to be sent out? If the date to submit is similar to this past year, it would open sometime around mid-September, meaning you'd likely be around only 3 sub-Is in. It also doesn't look like MSPEs get sent in until October, so would it hurt to wait a few weeks before submitting in order to get LoRs in? Can you even edit or add to your application after its submitted and if so, does it still help you at that point?

You can add letters of rec at any time. You can also edit your personal statement. I can’t speak to the importance of getting your app in on that day because I had it all ready to go then. applications are gone through by residency programs in the order received. In general, try to have everything ready to go and as complete as possible.

 

[Blunt Dissection]

With aways just around the corner, I wanted to ask if anyone had thoughts on selecting one institution over another. If you had to pick between an institution where you'd be less likely to get a residency, but the letter of rec would likely hold more weight versus a place where you're more likely to get ranked higher, which one would you choose?

 

[Cheeni17]

With aways just around the corner, I wanted to ask if anyone had thoughts on selecting one institution over another. If you had to pick between an institution where you'd be less likely to get a residency, but the letter of rec would likely hold more weight versus a place where you're more likely to get ranked higher, which one would you choose?

Have to be sure you would actually get a good rec from option one