*** 2020-2021 MD/PhD cycle - Questions, Comments, and other things ***

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Fencer

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The word for the cycle is.... Flexibility!

There are multiple issues for your application class including MCAT, P/F in courses, barriers doing shadowing and research experiences, etc.

I will try providing some answers.... and please bring up the issues.

Here are some updates for the community:

MCAT - adding more dates and more time slots

AMCAS application - opens on May 4, but transmission to schools delayed by 2 weeks.
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What does transmission to schools mean? Does that involve verification?
 
I hope everyone is safe. Thanks to Fencer for creating this post: I know a lot of people are stressing out over the upcoming cycles.

Personally, I had to reschedule my MCAT to early August. I was planning on retaking the MCAT due to an abysmal CARS score 513 (131, 123, 131, 128). Other than the MCAT, everything else on my app looks decent (GPA, shadowing, research...)

I'm fine with doing an extra gap year to boost my MCAT and get some publications out; however, I'm unsure if postponing is a good idea. Personally, I'm leaning towards taking another gap and waiting for the 2021-2022 cycle as I feel uncomfortable and unprepared for the 2020-2021 cycle. I'm curious to get other people's opinions on this.

How will programs make sure that applicants with incomplete or sub-par requirements due to cancellations get treated fairly?
 
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Transmission means that AAMC/AMCAS is pushing the applicant data into the schools. In prior cycles, it was scheduled on June 26, but now it will be until July 10. That likely means delays reviewing applications, and that Programs will NOT be releasing invitations to interview realistically until beginning of August or later. Tomorrow, there is an AAMC Webinar to Program Directors discussing the adjustments to the application cycle.... I might learn something new.

This is from an email from AMCAS Team:
"At this time, we [AMCAS Team] intend to open the AMCAS application as planned on May 4, and this transmission delay – moving from June 26 to July 10 – will give applicants additional time to complete their applications during this rapidly changing situation due to coronavirus (COVID-19). We [AMCAS Team] do not expect this two-week delay to impact AMCAS operations, including application processing and verification."

AAMC, AMCAS, and other organizations are working really hard to adjust to your needs. P/F will likely be ok even in things like Organic Chemistry 2.

Another set of news. The annual GP fair at NIH will likely become a Virtual Event. This might actually be useful to many as it might be an opportunity to reach out to MD/PhD program leadership in a Zoom type environment.

Another issue.... I am sorry but it is unlikely that we will have professional conferences during 2020. It means no face-to-face interactions... Think of SfN, EB, FASEB, but also SACNAS, ABRCMS, etc. Several of them might evolve into Virtual Events.

Labs might be restarting in some institutions.... Hopefully, disrupting less people.
 
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We received an email from the AMCAS team. A few comments:

Only the AMCAS transmission to schools is delayed by 2 weeks. "At this time, there is no plan to change any other dates for the 2021 AMCAS application cycle, including the Early Decision Program..."

As you may know, on April 24, the AAMC announced the addition of three new MCAT exam dates (June 28, September 27, and September 28). Three test appointments will be offered at test centers for all remaining test dates (with start times of 6:30 a.m., 12:15 p.m., and 6:00 p.m.).
 
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Hi everyone!

I was wondering how much research scholarships like the Goldwater help in MSTP applications as I won one for this year and will be applying this cycle.
 
Thanks for making this post!

I was wondering if it would be worth it to delay submitting an application until the end of July so that I can include when I start the NIH IRTA? Would it be okay to project hours over the year? I currently have 1200 and would have ~3000 with the postbac. I'm getting my MCAT score in mid-July as well anyway.
 
You could submit to a single school (perhaps local), and as you receive your score, you could add strategically school. Regarding Post-Bac, you will indicate that it is a future activity. We don't know when you will be truly starting on your IRTA. The hours are marked as future, not as of time of submission. When you start the IRTA, you could send an update to programs.
 
I have a research-heavy application and, at the current moment, no clinical experience. I was planning on working as an EMT over the next year starting this summer, but my EMT training was impacted by the pandemic and I won't be able to complete my certification until the fall at the earliest. I've looked into options for volunteering or scribing at local hospitals, but because of COVID-19 most hospitals are not accepting volunteers or non-essential new hires. This means that at the time of submitting my primary application, I will probably still have no clinical hours. Is it a bad idea for me to apply anyways given this? Will adcoms be understanding of the way the pandemic is impacting applicants' work situations? I'm hoping that at some point later in the cycle (hopefully before I submit secondaries but not sure if that is realistic) I'll be able to send an update that I've started a clinical position, but I'm worried that it will be too late and my application will be screened out automatically if I don't have anything clinical to list on my primary.
 
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On a similar note to MSTPhopeful2021, I will be reapplying with ~100 clinical volunteering hours and only 27 hours shadowing. I had a lot of shadowing scheduled for the first half of this year, but that got cancelled. I am hoping to reschedule for the later half of the year and project the hours. If other parts of my application are up to muster, will I be competitive for T20s?
 
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Have you shadowed at all? It will be tough convincing people that you know what being a dr entails with 0 exposure. What are you planning to say in your personal statement to answer "why medicine?"
 
QuantumHerbs said:
On a similar note to MSTPhopeful2021, I will be reapplying with ~100 clinical volunteering hours and only 27 hours shadowing. I had a lot of shadowing scheduled for the first half of this year, but that got cancelled. I am hoping to reschedule for the later half of the year and project the hours. If other parts of my application are up to muster, will I be competitive for T20s?
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I was a reapplicant for the 2019-2020 cycle who had fewer clinical hours than you my second time around. I think I was around 30 hours shadowing and 50-60 hours volunteering (compared to 30hr shadowing + 30 hrs volunteering my first time). IMO, it's less about getting a ton of hours and more about clearly stating how your experiences have informed your decision to pursue an MD/PhD. I was never asked during interviews about why I didn't have more clinical experience even my first cycle.

In terms of T20s specifically, I can't really say since only one of my interviews was at a T20 but I highly doubt your clinical hours will be a barrier. I managed to get accepted into one with less. I will say unless you have a specific reason (like international or something), I highly recommend broadening your school list if you aren't planning to already. There's a lot of very good schools + programs outside of T20s.
 
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cavesnakess said:
In terms of T20s specifically, I can't really say since only one of my interviews was at a T20 but I highly doubt your clinical hours will be a barrier. I managed to get accepted into one with less. I will say unless you have a specific reason (like international or something), I highly recommend broadening your school list if you aren't planning to already. There's a lot of very good schools + programs outside of T20s.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your input! I will definitely apply broadly -- I just wanted to get some idea of how much success (or lack thereof) I should expect for the T20 schools on my list.
 
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Is it likely that hours of research would be overlooked for productivity?

I have ~1200 hrs from 2 years in one lab + an REU, which is low from what I've read. But I also have 6 poster presentations from 4 posters, 2 of the poster presentations were at ASCB and ABRCMS, applied and received a research grant from my university, and will likely have 2 first-author micropublications out.
 
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What could the impact of the pandemic be on the speed of this cycle? For example, I was initially planning on completing my apps (including secondaries and MCAT score) late July, but due to a delayed MCAT, my apps are now going to be complete until about mid-August. Should that be fine or could it have a negative impact?
 
@Fencer Curious if you'd be willing to update this chart you made last year, since it's been quite interesting to see the trends and I was hoping to see how this past cycle measured up to the last (though obviously the 2020 cycle won't be complete).


Fencer said:
I am adding here are the past 10 years of aggregate MD/PhD admissions data to the current application cycle (2020) message thread:

MD/PhD application cycle2019*201820172016201520142013201220112010
Total Applicants1767183218241903185618531891182617791743
At least one MD/PhD Acceptance762791778785749776763764773741
Withdraw After AC (WA)668898111103120127112117111
Rescinded Acceptance (RA)0222113034
Deferral to later class (DF)14293223222925222025
Accepted682---------
Matriculated (MA)0672646649623626608630633601
Success to 1 Acceptance43%43%43%41%40%42%40%42%43%43%
Success to Matriculation0%37%35%34%34%34%32%35%36%34%
* as of 05/31/19
Click to expand...
 
I’m a rising senior who planned on taking a gap year to do a one-year NIH IRTA post-bac and applying next cycle (before the global pandemic happened). However, I fear with the Covid-induced disruptions, a lot of people who ordinarily would’ve applied this cycle will wait and apply next cycle.

Is this accurate? Do y’all feel next cycle will be more competitive?
 
MonkeyArrow said:
I’m a rising senior who planned on taking a gap year to do a one-year NIH IRTA post-bac and applying next cycle (before the global pandemic happened). However, I fear with the Covid-induced disruptions, a lot of people who ordinarily would’ve applied this cycle will wait and apply next cycle.

Is this accurate? Do y’all feel next cycle will be more competitive?
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Someone posted in the pre-MD forum that there was a 50% increase in AMCAS applications started May 4 and that there is a record amount of people taking the MCAT this year
 
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wiswal said:
Someone posted in the pre-MD forum that there was a 50% increase in AMCAS applications started May 4 and that there is a record amount of people taking the MCAT this year
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Wouldn't at least part of that 50% bump in AMCAS applications in the first few days be a result of people having few obligations while working from home/not working at all? They have the time to sit down and fill things out right when it opens rather than waiting until closer to the submission opening date. I'm not sure what the mcat registrations are about, though.
 
Some people might misinterpret statements like "this cycle will be more flexible" as "this cycle will be easier to get an acceptance". I don't think this is true. Some things will be treated differently (later MCATs, pass/fail) but I don't think this means that the 2020-2021 application cycle will be easier than usual.

Inevitably, the COVID pandemic is going to displace some people to the next 2021-2022 application cycle because they simply don't feel comfortable applying right now or they are unable to complete some prereqs. I fall into this category and have postponed my application due to my MCAT getting cancelled, a lab switch, and most importantly family safety concerns.

@MonkeyArrow I'm currently an NIH IRTA postbac and the OITE is doing a lot to help applicants with the current/next cycle. This includes weekly personal statement workshops, which are incredibly helpful :)
 
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toofastdan said:
Some people might misinterpret statements like "this cycle will be more flexible" as "this cycle will be easier to get an acceptance". I don't think this is true. Some things will be treated differently (later MCATs, pass/fail) but I don't think this means that the 2020-2021 application cycle will be easier than usual.

Inevitably, the COVID pandemic is going to displace some people to the next 2021-2022 application cycle because they simply don't feel comfortable applying right now or they are unable to complete some prereqs.
Click to expand...

Just to play devil's advocate, since people are getting displaced to the 2021-2022 application cycle, there will be fewer applicants that you are competing with this cycle. I agree that increased flexibility shouldn't be interpreted in this way, but logistically the chances are better. Of course, I think this is only true if your application is solid -- e.g. if you are applying with few clinical hours and/or cannot write well about your motivation for becoming a doctor, you're out of luck.
 
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For all we know, the MD-PhD and MD cycles may be impacted differently. Since more people tend to take gap years for MD-PhD, it could just be that more MD-PhD applicants are willing to take one more gap year in addition to what they were already planning (or they were already planning to take this gap year anyways). There's not much we can speculate on since the entire situation is basically unprecedented in modern history.
 
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Seihai said:
For all we know, the MD-PhD and MD cycles may be impacted differently. Since more people tend to take gap years for MD-PhD, it could just be that more MD-PhD applicants are willing to take one more gap year in addition to what they were already planning (or they were already planning to take this gap year anyways). There's not much we can speculate on since the entire situation is basically unprecedented in modern history.
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I do want to also add that it's very easy to create a justification in the reverse direction: MD-PhD applicants have ALREADY taken so many gap years/are more likely to have already taken one that they're too invested in applying this cycle than taking yet another gap year and potentially delaying their career that much longer.

I've met people on both sides of the fence; some are adamant about applying this cycle because they're already been working for 2 years (and many are in programs that are only 1-2 years long and have no further plans); others are hesitant about applying this cycle due to the obvious disruptions.

It could ultimately balance out or it could ultimately lead to one mindset prevailing amongst the applicants this cycle - there's really no good way to predict the what the collective will do without some kind of precedent. This will serve as a good precedent for if anything disruptive does happen in the future, at least.
 
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QuantumHerbs said:
Just to play devil's advocate, since people are getting displaced to the 2021-2022 application cycle, there will be fewer applicants that you are competing with this cycle. I agree that increased flexibility shouldn't be interpreted in this way, but logistically the chances are better. Of course, I think this is only true if your application is solid -- e.g. if you are applying with few clinical hours and/or cannot write well about your motivation for becoming a doctor, you're out of luck.
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I agree. Assuming the number of positions stays the same as in previous cycles and the applicant pool is reduced, there will be less competing seats.

I also agree with @Seihai as I can't predict how many people are going to apply this cycle. I might start to worry if the usual applicant pool of ~1800 dramatically changes, but I can't tell at this point
 
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Hi, everyone, two quick questions:
1) Should future hours for activities be included? If yes, should they be listed separately or lumped together?
2) Should a publication be listed as a separate activity when the lab research is already listed?

Thanks.
 
love2chis said:
Hi, everyone, two quick questions:
1) Should future hours for activities be included? If yes, should they be listed separately or lumped together?
2) Should a publication be listed as a separate activity when the lab research is already listed?

Thanks.
Click to expand...

The best way to list prospective hours for an activity is to make it repeated. You should list your publication as a separate activity.
 
@QuantumHerbs Thanks.

Another quick question: Are MD PhD applicants mandated to provide financial information? Thanks.
 
Most universities including MSTPs require the information to be able to provide you the stipend. While it does not change based upon the FAFSA information, the source of the funding might be a bit different. We have endowments for specific purposes.
 
@Fencer When does the financial info have to be provided? Could it be after acceptance? Thanks.
 
Not to spread panic, but my med school just let us know they'd be online for the fall, so virtual interviews seem likely (if not guaranteed) ... I know this is probably obvious on first principles but just to put that out there for people applying this cycle
 
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Hi, everyone, question about activities: Should patent listed separately like publications? Thanks.
 
For non-PI rec letters (e.g., science professors, non-science prof, volunteer coordinators, etc...), does anyone have advice on what they should specifically address in their letters? Should I just ask them to address my capacity as a physician, since they can't really speak to my potential as a researcher? What is some information you sent your letters writers was helpful?
 
Science class professors can comment about your scientific critical thinking and ability to learn new material... People who supervised you during volunteering activities can comment on your ability to empathize with people in need, team work spirit, and perhaps, become a physician.
 
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Fencer said:
Science class professors can comment about your scientific critical thinking and ability to learn new material... People who supervised you during volunteering activities can comment on your ability to empathize with people in need, team work spirit, and perhaps, become a physician.
Click to expand...
Thank you!!!
 
They can comment on your integrity and work-ethic, etc. In general, they are much less important for MD/PhD Ad-Coms, as compared to Research PIs > Science/MDs/volunteering> humanities/non-science professors. However, that non-science professor might be critical in your personal development and might be a terrific LOR regarding you and your circumstances.
 
I just saw the email regarding AMCAS' new VITA interview platform. Are MSTP programs likely to make use of it, or is it too early to know?
 
The VITA interview platform is a recorded interview that is made once by the interviewee. It last between 18-24 minutes. You respond to 6 questions (from a bank of questions) that assess some of the medical school competencies. Several MD/PhD programs (including MSTPs) have indicated that they plan to use them, perhaps, as a pre- or post-screening, and forward the interview to the medical school admissions committee (for the MD-only part). It appears that none of the questions are about science. You will get the cue to record this interview after you receive an Invitation to Interview at one of the participating schools. Once you recorded it once, it will be forwarded to additional participating schools that give you an invite to interview. Schools will not be able to see this but only after they made the decision for your to interview. Based on the discussions and webinar, it covers the applicant's journey to medical school and the following 5 competencies:
  • Social Skills
  • Cultural Competence
  • Teamwork
  • Reliability and Dependability
  • Resilience and Adaptability
It will not be scored, but provided raw to schools to examine and use as needed in the admissions process. It has no cost to applicants and no additional cost to schools/programs.
 
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@Fencer will there still be a separate MD/PhD portion of the interview where applicants can speak/interview with research faculty and current students of the program? And more generally, what opportunities will applicants have to ask questions? Is it possible that there will be one-on-one interviews alongside this VITA interview?
 
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VITA is not likely to replace one-to-one MD/PhD interviews at all. What it will likely replace is the MD-portion of the interview. Many of us have expressed concerns on VITA including issues of equality and fairness for applicants, particularly for those applicants of low socio-economic status who might not be able to control their environment during this recorded interview. My advice for applicants aiming to record this one-time interview as well as other virtual interviews with MD/PhD (and MD-only) programs at a public library or institution. It would likely give you a more reliable internet and better control on your environment. Dress up for the event.... it is an interview. Nothing fancy, just professional. I was told that NIH would have on-campus areas for this purpose if you are doing a post-bac there. Despite lobbying by several of us for including a MD/PhD question in VITA for our MD/PhD applicants (just as the extra essays in AMCAS), it is most likely not going to happen. VITA might be used as a pre-screening interview by some programs. Thus, receiving an invite is a good sign but not necessarily an offer for a virtual interview by the program and/or school.

Here is the AAMC VITA website: AAMC Video Interview Tool for Admissions (AAMC VITA™)
 
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I read over the AAMC Vita email notification and browsed the accommodations application for the video interview. I belie typically students with disabilities are 'blinded' to adcoms, how would written submitted responses or extended video responses look when being reviewed?

I know sharing disabilities/accommodations is a very mixed bag depending who you ask but I anticipate many ADHD students
 
Idk if it's just me but I feel like this new VITA thing doesn't add any value that couldn't be derived from a regular online interview. I'm still struggling to understand what role it will play in this cycle. I'm sure PDs have gotten a more thorough rundown from AAMC, do you all feel the same way?
 
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I know everyone is probably busy working on secondaries right now, but just wanted to pass along some good luck to everybody applying this year!
 
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