2020 USNews Medical School Rankings are Out

[DubbiDoctor]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings

NYU fell to number nine, below Columbia lol. Cornell is back in the top 10 when I don't believe they made the top 20 last year. These rankings do not matter and are arbitrary and inconsistent. But ambitious pre-meds love to pretend that they do, so we may as well have a thread for it.

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[meronebib]

Looks like they changed their ranking methodology again based on "recommendations from med school deans," i.e. every T10 school that was ranked below NYU lol. Private funding is no longer considered in these new rankings.

 

[puahate]

PD and research rankings?

 

[965978]

OMG @Goro ARE YOU BACK??

 

[Lucca]

In the predictions thread I predicted

1. Harvard
2. Hopkins
3. Stanford
4. UCSF
5. NYU
6. Mayo
7. Penn
8. WashU
9. Columbia
10. Yale

Wasn’t too far off although didn’t predict the change back to remove private funding!

Real question is: what will NYU do with all the #1 school in NY ads?

 

[965978]

.

 

[Avada Cadaver]

https://www.usnews.com/best-graduate-schools/top-medical-schools/research-rankings

NYU fell to number nine, below Columbia lol. Cornell is back in the top 10 when I don't believe they made the top 20 last year. These rankings do not matter and are arbitrary and inconsistent. But ambitious pre-meds love to pretend that they do, so we may as well have a thread for it.

Cornell is usually in t20's, but I'm P sure the last time Cornell was in the top "10" was the year I was born lol

 

[meronebib]

In the predictions thread I predicted

1. Harvard
2. Hopkins
3. Stanford
4. UCSF
5. NYU
6. Mayo
7. Penn
8. WashU
9. Columbia
10. Yale

Wasn’t too far off although didn’t predict the change back to remove private funding!

Real question is: what will NYU do with all the #1 school in NY ads?

They can't even comfortably say they're the #2 school in NY anymore! 'Bout time Cornell got some love!

 

[Lucca]

They can't even comfortably say they're the #2 school in NY anymore! 'Bout time Cornell got some love!

Given their association with Rockefeller and Sloan Kettering on the MSTP side, I’d say moving up was well deserved.

 

[Lawpy]

I'm just glad HMS remains #1...

 

[Mike Bagwell]

Ah, US News & World Report. The same organization that had Caltech as the #1 school in this country when I was applying to college.

 

[hydrationshell]

They can't even comfortably say they're the #2 school in NY anymore! 'Bout time Cornell got some love!

Given their association with Rockefeller and Sloan Kettering on the MSTP side, I’d say moving up was well deserved.

Absolutely, Cornell moving up to T10 is well deserved. Such a great program

 

[deleted962973]

They can't even comfortably say they're the #2 school in NY anymore! 'Bout time Cornell got some love!

Aren’t they tied for #2 with Cornell? Not that there’s really a diff between #6 Columbia and #9 to begin with. Still, I’m glad to see Penn regain its footing.

 

[meronebib]

.

 

[efle]

lmao @ the non-NIH funding being immediately cut a single year after adding it in.

I wonder how much NYU had to bribe them for their year in the spotlight

Edit: Also, annual reminder that Harvard does not come out ahead in any of the metrics (reputation, MCAT/GPA, admit rate, etc) EXCEPT for total NIH funding, because they include a massive network of Boston area hospital sites in their total calculation instead of just their main training or research hospitals. Do NOT pass up peers schools if they're a better fit because of the hype that Harvard is in a league of its own. Go for the better location, better aid package etc. instead

 

[Lucca]

here are the t20 USNWR schools ranked in order of residency PD ranking by research, primary care, and combined. Note that the difference +/- 1 is extremely granular given the way the survey is designed so don't read too much into the difference between 1-4, 4-6, etc. Sinai is a bigger jump down.

Research

1. HMS, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF
2. Stanford, WashU
3. Columbia, Michigan
4. UCLA, Pitt, Duke
5. Cornell, Mayo, UWash, Yale, Vanderbilt
6. NWern, NYU, UChicago
7. Sinai

Primary Care

1. UCSF
2. UWash
3. Hopkins, Penn, Michigan
4. Stanford, Harvard
5. WashU, Vandy
6. Columbia, Mayo, Duke, Yale, Pitt, NWern, UCLA
7. UChicago, NYU, Cornell
8. Sinai

Combined

1. UCSF
2. Hopkins, Penn
3. Harvard
4. Stanford, Michigan
5. WashU, UWash
6. Columbia
7. UCLA, Duke, Pitt, Vanderbilt
8. Mayo, Yale
9. Cornell, Northwestern
10. Uchicago, NYU
11. Sinai

 

[efle]

Y’all, I just gotta say it, but chill tf out. Only on SDN do rankings simultaneously not matter and also it’s the end of the world if NYU is ranked #3. I think we can all agree it’s not a T5 like Hopkins etc but it’s a solid T10/T20 at this point and it doesn’t do any good to belittle an institution your peers attend.

I'm just salty about their tuition being free now AND them getting to live in Manhattan. I legit have no dog in the NYU rankings race I just think it's a great SDN meme and had to do my part

 

[meronebib]

Want to point out some of these Step 1 averages - from what I can see, Penn and Vandy are at the top with an average of 246. Harvard and Baylor at 245. Mayo dropped to 237. Interesting to see how these scores fluctuate from class to class.

 

[Gilakend]

Y’all, I just gotta say it, but chill tf out. Only on SDN do rankings simultaneously not matter and also it’s the end of the world if NYU is ranked #3. I think we can all agree it’s not a T5 like Hopkins etc but it’s a solid T10/T20 at this point and it doesn’t do any good to belittle an institution your peers attend.

If someone gets into a T20 school with free tuition and feels bad about it because of what people say on an online forum, then I have truly seen it all.

 

[Lucca]

Right, but my post wasn’t directed at NYU students. It was towards the straight up obsessive compulsive individuals on this forum who have been following NYUs ranking trajectory like their lives depend on it. If you’re secure in your own success, you wouldn’t feel like you had to put down others.

Example 1: 2018-2019 NYU School of Medicine

Lmao SDN continues to deliver

 

[lalalallala]

here are the t20 USNWR schools ranked in order of residency PD ranking by research, primary care, and combined. Note that the difference +/- 1 is extremely granular given the way the survey is designed so don't read too much into the difference between 1-4, 4-6, etc. Sinai is a bigger jump down.

Research

1. HMS, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF
2. Stanford, WashU
3. Columbia, Michigan
4. UCLA, Pitt, Duke
5. Cornell, Mayo, UWash, Yale, Vanderbilt
6. NWern, NYU, UChicago
7. Sinai

Primary Care

1. UCSF
2. UWash
3. Hopkins, Penn, Michigan
4. Stanford, Harvard
5. WashU, Vandy
6. Columbia, Mayo, Duke, Yale, Pitt, NWern, UCLA
7. UChicago, NYU, Cornell
8. Sinai

Combined

1. UCSF
2. Hopkins, Penn
3. Harvard
4. Stanford, Michigan
5. WashU, UWash
6. Columbia
7. UCLA, Duke, Pitt, Vanderbilt
8. Mayo, Yale
9. Cornell, Northwestern
10. Uchicago, NYU
11. Sinai

Out of curiosity what goes into the primary care ranking? I understand research rankings, but does all of the pertinent info about patient care fall into the primary care rankings? What about how well the students are prepared in the specialities?

 

[Avada Cadaver]

Right, but my post wasn’t directed at NYU students. It was towards the straight up obsessive compulsive individuals on this forum who have been following NYUs ranking trajectory like their lives depend on it. If you’re secure in your own success, you wouldn’t feel like you had to put down others.

Example 1: 2018-2019 NYU School of Medicine

Lmao SDN continues to deliver

His name is really hms2022. LOL people are out here wilin.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Real question is: what will NYU do with all the #1 school in NY ads?

Burn ‘em
Glad the world is back in working order

Spoiler

im joking

 

[TempuraOreos]

His name is really hms2022. LOL people are out here wilin.

Lol plot twist goes to a Caribbean School.

 

[deleted962973]

His name is really hms2022. LOL people are out here wilin.

Personally I’m Princeton Med or bust

 

[Lucca]

Out of curiosity what goes into the primary care ranking? I understand research rankings, but does all of the pertinent info about patient care fall into the primary care rankings? What about how well the students are prepared in the specialities?

I have no idea. I'm not exactly sure how its supposed to differ from the research ranking. Don't put too much stock into either, but the research PD ranking is probably the most relevant of all the USNWR rankings for the purposes of evaluating a school's relative reputation level. It's just a survey that asks PDs "rate graduates of this school on these metrics." Beyond that, I'm not sure how they come up with the numbers. Maybe someone else does, @efle?

 

[WedgeDawg]

I have no idea. I'm not exactly sure how its supposed to differ from the research ranking. Don't put too much stock into either, but the research PD ranking is probably the most relevant of all the USNWR rankings for the purposes of evaluating a school's relative reputation level. It's just a survey that asks PDs "rate graduates of this school on these metrics." Beyond that, I'm not sure how they come up with the numbers. Maybe someone else does, @efle?

I think it depends on how much money from each school gets quietly deposited into offshore USNWR accounts...

 

[Lucca]

I'm just salty about their tuition being free now AND them getting to live in Manhattan. I legit have no dog in the NYU rankings race I just think it's a great SDN meme and had to do my part

low-key NYU is in a rly nice part of Manhattan, all of their facilities / centers / labs are brand-new, super-shiny and overlooking the Hudson into Brooklyn, and the full COA is slightly more than an IS student pays in TX. Their grads match very well inside NYC, where I imagine many want to stay long-term anyways.

They also guarantee subsidized housing for the entire time that you are there for every student and you can potentially graduate in 3 as opposed to 4 years, unlike their Big Sibling in the other "WTF How does Anyone Afford rent in this G.D. city" city on the opposite coast.

QOL wise it is the obvious choice for any city-loving premed who doesnt come from money barring other insanely generous offers like the debt-free Columbia or Geffen scholarship at UCLA etc.

USNWR is astrology for premeds: fun to look at and nerd out over, but you shouldn't make major life decisions with it.

 

[meronebib]

Okay guys, deciding to post Step 1 averages for the T20 schools. If there are any other schools you would like to see, PM me.

1. Harvard, 245
2. Hopkins, 245
3. Stanford, 242
4. Penn, 246
5. UCSF, 233
6. Columbia, 238
7. UCLA, 232
8. WUSTL, 243
9. Cornell, 239
10. Mayo, 237
11. NYU, 239
12. UWSOM, 224 (!)
13. Duke, 242
14. Pitt, 233
15. Yale, 242
16. Chicago, 242
17. Michigan, 231
18. Vandy, 246
19. Sinai, 238
20. Northwestern, 242

 

[WedgeDawg]

Okay guys, deciding to post Step 1 averages for the T20 schools. If there are any other schools you would like to see, PM me.

1. Harvard, 245
2. Hopkins, 245
3. Stanford, 242
4. Penn, 246
5. UCSF, 233
6. Columbia, 238
7. UCLA, 232
8. WUSTL, 243
9. Cornell, 239
10. Mayo, 237
11. NYU, 239
12. UWSOM, 224 (!)
13. Duke, 242
14. Pitt, 233
15. Yale, 242
16. Chicago, 242
17. Michigan, 231
18. Vandy, 246
19. Sinai, 238
20. Northwestern, 242

100% noise

 

[907914]

Okay guys, deciding to post Step 1 averages for the T20 schools. If there are any other schools you would like to see, PM me.

1. Harvard, 245
2. Hopkins, 245
3. Stanford, 242
4. Penn, 246
5. UCSF, 233
6. Columbia, 238
7. UCLA, 232
8. WUSTL, 243
9. Cornell, 239
10. Mayo, 237
11. NYU, 239
12. UWSOM, 224 (!)
13. Duke, 242
14. Pitt, 233
15. Yale, 242
16. Chicago, 242
17. Michigan, 231
18. Vandy, 246
19. Sinai, 238
20. Northwestern, 242

UWSOM is so high up because it is the only ranked school across a 5 state/600 mile radius. That makes them the research funding powerhouse for the Norhwest. Their step score is so low because they aren’t trying to pull in the 4.0/520s, they are shooting for WWAMI residents who want to be WWAMI physicians. Their primary care performance is so stellar because they only have 18 month preclinical followed by 12 weeks of dedicated, followed by access to almost 400 different clinical rotation sites across the WWAMI region.

 

[CorallyPink]

Okay guys, deciding to post Step 1 averages for the T20 schools. If there are any other schools you would like to see, PM me.

1. Harvard, 245
2. Hopkins, 245
3. Stanford, 242
4. Penn, 246
5. UCSF, 233
6. Columbia, 238
7. UCLA, 232
8. WUSTL, 243
9. Cornell, 239
10. Mayo, 237
11. NYU, 239
12. UWSOM, 224 (!)
13. Duke, 242
14. Pitt, 233
15. Yale, 242
16. Chicago, 242
17. Michigan, 231
18. Vandy, 246
19. Sinai, 238
20. Northwestern, 242

Does anyone know why the T20 public schools have lower step averages? It seems like every year they are lower than the private T20s.

 

[Mad Jack]

Ohmygodwhothehellcares.gif

 

[907914]

Does anyone know why the T20 public schools have lower step averages? It seems like every year they are lower than the private T20s.

Because Public schools are not necessarily trying to pull in the gunner students - they are just trying to pull in students who want to practice in their state.

But the Ranking is based on funding and reputation, not necessarily how good of a school it is.

 

[MacBee]

Out of curiosity what goes into the primary care ranking?

I'm not exactly sure how its supposed to differ from the research ranking

For those interested in the ranking methodologies and the difference between them for Research and Primary Care: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/medical-schools-methodology

Most of the metrics are the same between the two, but are weighted differently. The major difference for PC is the “Primary Care Rate” which is calculated from “the percentage of a school's M.D. or D.O. graduates entering primary care residencies in the fields of family practice, pediatrics and internal medicine was averaged over 2016, 2017 and 2018.” (The research rankings use a “Research Rate”, instead, which is where the NIH funding data gets incorporated.)

 

[Lucca]

For those interested in the ranking methodologies and the difference between them for Research and Primary Care: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-graduate-schools/articles/medical-schools-methodology

Most of the metrics are the same between the two, but are weighted differently. The major difference for PC is the “Primary Care Rate” which is calculated from “the percentage of a school's M.D. or D.O. graduates entering primary care residencies in the fields of family practice, pediatrics and internal medicine was averaged over 2016, 2017 and 2018.” (The research rankings use a “Research Rate”, instead, which is where the NIH funding data gets incorporated.)

That’s for the usnwr rank, but how do the surveys sent to residency PDs, themselves part of each overal; rank, measure what they measure?

 

[efle]

That’s for the usnwr rank, but how do the surveys sent to residency PDs, themselves part of each overal; rank, measure what they measure?

My money says it's the same survey sent to both and they just added a question at the start that says "is your program a Primary Care residency Y/N"

Then they break that subgroup out as the PCP score

 

[manofsteel9]

Quick question for everyone...right now my top choice is Hofstra; I really loved the school/students and was even surprised by a generous scholarship (around half-tuition). My concern is that their PD ranking is around 110(?) which is quite low considering that their match list is pretty solid (Hopkins Neurosurgery, several orthos, CT surgery, etc). Is this simply due to the fact that they’ve only graduated 4 classes? Don’t want to sound like a type-A bi**h, but I am strongly considering neurosurgery for residency, preferably in an academically oriented program, so I was wondering if Hofstra would close doors.

 

[WedgeDawg]

Quick question for everyone...right now my top choice is Hofstra; I really loved the school/students and was even surprised by a generous scholarship (around half-tuition). My concern is that their PD ranking is around 110(?) which is quite low considering that their match list is pretty solid (Hopkins Neurosurgery, several orthos, CT surgery, etc). Is this simply due to the fact that they’ve only graduated 4 classes? Don’t want to sound like a type-A bi**h, but I am strongly considering neurosurgery for residency, preferably in an academically oriented program, so I was wondering if Hofstra would close doors.

I would start an X vs Y thread once you have all your acceptances in hand rather than try to discuss here!

 

[efle]

Quick question for everyone...right now my top choice is Hofstra; I really loved the school/students and was even surprised by a generous scholarship (around half-tuition). My concern is that their PD ranking is around 110(?) which is quite low considering that their match list is pretty solid (Hopkins Neurosurgery, several orthos, CT surgery, etc). Is this simply due to the fact that they’ve only graduated 4 classes? Don’t want to sound like a type-A bi**h, but I am strongly considering neurosurgery for residency, preferably in an academically oriented program, so I was wondering if Hofstra would close doors.

New schools are always low in the PD ranks, yeah

Wouldn't give up the half tuition scholarship over their newness, unless the alternative is some very big name and/or has a program you'd love to home-match into

 

[deleted958249]

Curious to know why Baylor dropped quite a bit. I remember them being number 16 last year. Is it because of the St. Luke’s situation, or the change in their rotating hospitals? Thanks.

 

[MacBee]

Curious to know why Baylor dropped quite a bit. I remember them being number 16 last year. Is it because of the St. Luke’s situation, or the change in their rotating hospitals? Thanks.

According to Baylor’s prez: “A change made this year in the data used to rank research intensive schools was to calculate only NIH funding. Last year, in 2018, for the first time, research data included all non-NIH federal funding as well as all other research funding. For Baylor, this totaled more than $113 million and resulted in our higher ranking in 2018.”

 

[efle]

Curious to know why Baylor dropped quite a bit. I remember them being number 16 last year. Is it because of the St. Luke’s situation, or the change in their rotating hospitals? Thanks.

Pretty much all big changes are going to be because they reverted the main ranking factor (research funding) back to being only NIH dollars, which is what they'd always used for decades. Last year a bunch of schools saw large jumps or drops because they tried including non-government/private funding in their calculation, but looks like that upset a lot of important people (read: the deans of top schools whose ranking dropped). So they reverted back to NIH-only and moved a bunch of schools around again.

SDN's favorite example is NYU, which went if I recall from 2017 #11 (NIH only) --> 2018 #3 (private funds added) --> 2019 #9 (NIH only again)

 

[metview]

Rankings look more "accurate" this year. It's still a joke but last year's was even a bigger one! Including private funding last year was a questionable move. The merit of school's research is better indicated solely by NIH funding secured.

 

[chlorocruorin]

here are the t20 USNWR schools ranked in order of residency PD ranking by research, primary care, and combined. Note that the difference +/- 1 is extremely granular given the way the survey is designed so don't read too much into the difference between 1-4, 4-6, etc. Sinai is a bigger jump down.

Research

1. HMS, Hopkins, Penn, UCSF
2. Stanford, WashU
3. Columbia, Michigan
4. UCLA, Pitt, Duke
5. Cornell, Mayo, UWash, Yale, Vanderbilt
6. NWern, NYU, UChicago
7. Sinai

Primary Care

1. UCSF
2. UWash
3. Hopkins, Penn, Michigan
4. Stanford, Harvard
5. WashU, Vandy
6. Columbia, Mayo, Duke, Yale, Pitt, NWern, UCLA
7. UChicago, NYU, Cornell
8. Sinai

Combined

1. UCSF
2. Hopkins, Penn
3. Harvard
4. Stanford, Michigan
5. WashU, UWash
6. Columbia
7. UCLA, Duke, Pitt, Vanderbilt
8. Mayo, Yale
9. Cornell, Northwestern
10. Uchicago, NYU
11. Sinai

Where did you get this?

 

[efle]

Where did you get this?

You can look up survey scores (both from Residency Directors and peer institutions) on each school's page. Can also find other goodies like most recently reported step1 average and the exact numbers of applied/interviewed/admitted to figure out the post-interview accept rate (whereas MSAR only shows number interviewed).