2023 Pathology Match Results

[univlad]

How did Pathology fare this year in the match? Word on the street is nearly 20% of emergency medicine programs did not fill.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[mike-sheree]

Interesting to see the flow of time.

 

[MetroPath]

How did Pathology fare this year in the match? Word on the street is nearly 20% of emergency medicine programs did not fill.

Why has EM fallen out of favor?

 

[TrojanRaggy]

How did Pathology fare this year in the match? Word on the street is nearly 20% of emergency medicine programs did not fill.

Pathology did really good. Just one unfilled spot for SOAP 🙂
I guess people got a whiff of the improved job market 😉

 

[univlad]

Why has EM fallen out of favor?

I've read it may be multifactorial. There have been a lot of new residency programs opening (HCA opened a lot in their hospitals in FL) and EM may be seen as less desirable as so many jobs are working for private equity owned groups.

 

[mike-sheree]

Their day-to-day work is horribly micromanaged by their MBA master

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

EM went to hell thanks to private equity, who are working hard to replace them with NPs. I would hate to work in ER. 90 percent of online reviews for health systems are reviews of their experience in the ER and they hold nothing back, naming the provider and trashing them.

 

[octopusprime]

Yeah I don't know a single ER doc, aside from a few very rural small towners, that aren't part of a big staffing/corporate entity...just not a good environment the last 5 yrs.

 

[coroner]

EM went to hell thanks to private equity, who are working hard to replace them with NPs. I would hate to work in ER. 90 percent of online reviews for health systems are reviews of their experience in the ER and they hold nothing back, naming the provider and trashing them.

👆This...

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2023/02/11/1154962356/ers-hiring-fewer-doctors

 

[Lyme]

Pathology did really good. Just one unfilled spot for SOAP 🙂
I guess people got a whiff of the improved job market 😉

The thing is the pathology job market remains good for how long before it is crashing again?

 

[MetroPath]

The thing is the pathology job market remains good for how long before it is crashing again?

Get a good job while you still can. I said a GOOD job. There are some garbage jobs out there with lower pay and/or lower complexity specimens.

Large cities, in my opinion, are still saturated with trainees hence the fewer jobs in the surrounding area. Realize that both new trainees AND experienced pathologists (who are looking to change jobs) are looking for a position.

Some academic centers near me are short staffed from what I hear. Current staff are working long hours.

Good jobs near big cities aren’t advertised. They fill through connections.

Make sure you are competent when you finish residency and fellowship. I’ve heard of stories of a bunch of incompetent trainees who actually graduated from solid programs who couldn’t sign out cases. They were FIRED.

Program directors don’t really care or may not be able to do anything with a poor resident. I mean they can’t hold a resident back or prevent someone who just sucks diagnostically from graduating.

You do not want to suck by the time you graduate. You will struggle on the job if you do.

Be comfortable signing out everything by the time you graduate fellowship. Of course, no one can be good at everything but you have to feel comfortable at least with general surgpath and cyto. You will be given trays of all sorts of goodies and you can’t say “I just want to sign out GI”.

 

[mike-sheree]

It’s got to be damned near impossible to be both comfortable and competent today as a resident when you have NEVER had the opportunity or requirement to sign out so much as ONE case independently. How can an employer have any lofty expectations?

 

[MetroPath]

It’s got to be damned near impossible to be both comfortable and competent today as a resident when you have NEVER had the opportunity or requirement to sign out so much as ONE case independently. How can an employer have any lofty expectations?

Diagnostically incompetent and irresponsible as in the person leaves a biopsy not signed out for over a few weeks.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

The thing is the pathology job market remains good for how long before it is crashing again?

Go rural while you can. Then sit back and let the others fight for crumbs in the cities while they deal with expensive cost of living. Why people don't go rural is beyond me. You can make a fortune in a short time.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

Yeah I don't know a single ER doc, aside from a few very rural small towners, that aren't part of a big staffing/corporate entity...just not a good environment the last 5 yrs.

The ERs around here are staffed with mostly NPs and the majority of their job is dealing with patients that have no business being in the ER. The ER isn't meant for primary care. Then you get to read online from someone complaining about sitting in the waiting room for hours with a serious issue while providers dig ear wax out of someone or whatever.

 

[coroner]

Get a good job while you still can. I said a GOOD job.

The market is still crap compared to other fields. It is better than pre-Covid, but good jobs are still scarce and will continue to be scarce even after this so-called "window period" of the current job market evaporates.

There are some garbage jobs out there with lower pay and/or lower complexity specimens.

Lower complexity doesn't equate to being a garbage job. For a new trainee, I would not recommend it. But for someone with experience, who's been pushing glass for 10+ years at a high complexity, large hospital with multispecialty disciplines, while dealing with 7AM tumor conferences, getting yanked from their desk multiple times/day for frozens that tie them up for an hour, or ROSE/EBUS adequacies only to stand around twiddling their thumbs for another hour, then their dream job could be "low complexity" signing out gallbags and hernia sacs all day.

Why people don't go rural is beyond me.

The same reason someone in NYC can't understand why on earth someone would take a job in Texarkana, AR...to each their own.

 

[Alteran]

Program directors don’t really care or may not be able to do anything with a poor resident. I mean they can’t hold a resident back or prevent someone who just sucks diagnostically from graduating.

That is the catch 22 isn't it? On the one had as a program director you have an obligation to only matriculate competent residents who you feel are ready for the board exams and independent practice. On the other hand, you can't hold back too many residents (even though you should because they're clearly not ready) because it will bring unwanted attention to the program.

Seeing how poorly pathology residents are faring these days overall, I believe that a lot of program directors are intentionally graduating residents who are not ready. Just look at the ABP pass rates. About 1 in 10 fail the exam first time through and it's even worse for those who attempt to repeat the test - about 50% fail. Clearly, those who keep failing were not ready to be graduated and yet they were.

 

[wholeheartedly]

That is the catch 22 isn't it? On the one had as a program director you have an obligation to only matriculate competent residents who you feel are ready for the board exams and independent practice. On the other hand, you can't hold back too many residents (even though you should because they're clearly not ready) because it will bring unwanted attention to the program.

Seeing how poorly pathology residents are faring these days overall, I believe that a lot of program directors are intentionally graduating residents who are not ready. Just look at the ABP pass rates. About 1 in 10 fail the exam first time through and it's even worse for those who attempt to repeat the test - about 50% fail. Clearly, those who keep failing were not ready to be graduated and yet they were.

So how does someone applying to residency figure out which programs will best help them progress to competently independently signing out cases?

When people ask about where to train it’s often go to best program you can that will do that but how do ppl figure that out?

 

[Napoleon1801]

So how does someone applying to residency figure out which programs will best help them progress to competently independently signing out cases?

When people ask about where to train it’s often go to best program you can that will do that but how do ppl figure that out?

The boards pass rate and word of mouth are pretty important. If you see a bunch of fail-bots from previous years who aren't getting jobs or pursuing 3+ fellowships, there's a problem with the program.

 

[Pingu]

So how does someone applying to residency figure out which programs will best help them progress to competently independently signing out cases?

When people ask about where to train it’s often go to best program you can that will do that but how do ppl figure that out?

You pretty much have to take matters into your own hands with regards to independent sign out. There's several ways that you can get the "feel" of independent sign out as a resident.

One is to have an attending that will allow you to work up the case independently and then review it with you giving you uncensored and occasionally brutal feedback. This is very dependent on the attending.

Another way is to review old cases and treat them like they are brand new. Get on the good side of the keeper of the slides in your department and let them know you'd like to review some old cases. Then review the slides and write up your diagnosis and compare it to the actual signed out diagnosis. This is also a good way to get exposure to less common tumors or tumors that seem to keep missing you when you're on surgicals.

 

[Lyme]

Go rural while you can. Then sit back and let the others fight for crumbs in the cities while they deal with expensive cost of living. Why people don't go rural is beyond me. You can make a fortune in a short time.

I just matched. I am gonna be a baby resident. I have not known where I matched until Friday. I hope I am ending up in Indiana or Iowa (my top choices). I hate big cities. I want to build an empire in the middle of nowhere (little weird right?)

 

[MetroPath]

You pretty much have to take matters into your own hands with regards to independent sign out. There's several ways that you can get the "feel" of independent sign out as a resident.

One is to have an attending that will allow you to work up the case independently and then review it with you giving you uncensored and occasionally brutal feedback. This is very dependent on the attending.

Another way is to review old cases and treat them like they are brand new. Get on the good side of the keeper of the slides in your department and let them know you'd like to review some old cases. Then review the slides and write up your diagnosis and compare it to the actual signed out diagnosis. This is also a good way to get exposure to less common tumors or tumors that seem to keep missing you when you're on surgicals.

Good advice here. The best attendings are the one who will critically assess you and can give you honest feedback in a non-demeaning way. Those types of attendings are golden.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

I just matched. I am gonna be a baby resident. I have not known where I matched until Friday. I hope I am ending up in Indiana or Iowa (my top choices). I hate big cities. I want to build an empire in the middle of nowhere (little weird right?)

Sounds like a great plan. Then migrate down to Kentucky and make millions.

 

[mike-sheree]

You pretty much have to take matters into your own hands with regards to independent sign out. There's several ways that you can get the "feel" of independent sign out as a resident.

One is to have an attending that will allow you to work up the case independently and then review it with you giving you uncensored and occasionally brutal feedback. This is very dependent on the attending.

Another way is to review old cases and treat them like they are brand new. Get on the good side of the keeper of the slides in your department and let them know you'd like to review some old cases. Then review the slides and write up your diagnosis and compare it to the actual signed out diagnosis. This is also a good way to get exposure to less common tumors or tumors that seem to keep missing you when you're on surgicals.

That would be better than most. But, until they have a system AND a teaching staff that TRUSTS senior residents in their last surg path rotation to to what they have supposedly taught them to do, the magic ain’t gonna happen. This was commonplace 40 years ago (at least in the military). Those few who had not instilled such confidence in the attending staff were gone by yr 4. Seemed to work just fine back then.
And Webb, once again, is imparting words of wisdom for the young folks here. Seriously.

 

[mike-sheree]

I just matched. I am gonna be a baby resident. I have not known where I matched until Friday. I hope I am ending up in Indiana or Iowa (my top choices). I hate big cities. I want to build an empire in the middle of nowhere (little weird right?)

Not at all. You are wise beyond your experience.

 

[MetroPath]

Anyone read these tweets from academic pathologists on Twitter who want more positions for their residency programs due to this pathologist shortage?

 

[Lyme]

Anyone read these tweets from academic pathologists on Twitter who want more positions for their residency programs due to this pathologist shortage?

so more taxpayer funding and cheap labor!!!!!

 

[SunBakedTrash]

Anyone read these tweets from academic pathologists on Twitter who want more positions for their residency programs due to this pathologist shortage?

It’s a whole other layer of cringe on top of the garbage they usually post. I hope lying to medical students keeps them up at night, but I know it doesn’t. The best of them are out of touch old people who haven’t looked for a job in 40 years who genuinely believe the CAP echo chamber of delusions. The worst of them are just third rate conmen without the talent to succeed outside of claiming to “educate” residents. I have no doubt that two years from now the market will adjust and we’ll be back to 5 low-quality academic or Quest jobs posted per week on pathology outlines.

 

[MetroPath]

It’s a whole other layer of cringe on top of the garbage they usually post. I hope lying to medical students keeps them up at night, but I know it doesn’t. The best of them are out of touch old people who haven’t looked for a job in 40 years who genuinely believe the CAP echo chamber of delusions. The worst of them are just third rate conmen without the talent to succeed outside of claiming to “educate” residents. I have no doubt that two years from now the market will adjust and we’ll be back to 5 low-quality academic or Quest jobs posted per week on pathology outlines.

Yeah the thing is that because theres more jobs now, does that mean there’s all of a sudden a “shortage” and we all got to go into panic mode and start opening up new residency positions? I mean I think that this is how it should have been all along: plenty of jobs available (aka an abundance of opportunities for grads and more experienced pathologists) just like in Radiology.

Look at the Rads jobs market.

There’s plenty of jobs in Radiology but does that mean there’s a shortage of radiologists and we need to open up more Radiology residency positions?

These academics on Twitter are getting all excited because there’s one unfilled spot in the match and Pathology is “on fire”?

Does anyone remember when there was one job posted a day (if you were lucky) on path outlines?

 

[SunBakedTrash]

Yeah the thing is that because theres more jobs now, does that mean there’s all of a sudden a “shortage” and we all got to go into panic mode and start opening up new residency positions? I mean I think that this is how it should have been all along: plenty of jobs available (aka an abundance of opportunities for grads and more experienced pathologists) just like in Radiology.

Look at the Rads jobs market.

There’s plenty of jobs in Radiology but does that mean there’s a shortage of radiologists and we need to open up more Radiology residency positions?

These academics on Twitter are getting all excited because there’s one unfilled spot in the match and Pathology is “on fire”?

Does anyone remember when there was one job posted a day (if you were lucky) on path outlines?

They are using this as an opportunity of “I told you so!!!”

The field is built heavily on waste. Over the next few years with disruptive technologies and a glut of trainees, we’ll see the crunch.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Just read a rant from an ER doc about how the business of healthcare has ruined emergency medicine. Lower pay, quality of lifestyle and high demands. I have a feeling with AI/digital pathology and the increasing corporatization of pathology, it’ll just be a matter of time.

If academics do push for more spots, this may be detrimental to our field in the long run. Add on decreasing reimbursements, the future does not look good for all of medicine in the next 10 years.

555 unfilled ER spots have been filled I hear by the way.

 

[Lyme]

Just read a rant from an ER doc about how the business of healthcare has ruined emergency medicine. Lower pay, quality of lifestyle and high demands. I have a feeling with AI/digital pathology and the increasing corporatization of pathology, it’ll just be a matter of time.

If academics do push for more spots, this may be detrimental to our field in the long run. Add on decreasing reimbursements, the future does not look good for all of medicine in the next 10 years.

555 unfilled ER spots have been filled I hear by the way.

Academics created many many "subspecialty fellowships". We may have vulva pathology fellowship in the near future.

 

[Spikebd]

Academics created many many "subspecialty fellowships". We may have vulva pathology fellowship in the near future.

lmao so true.

Don’t increase residency slots. Protect valuable subspecialties like molecular from encroachment (don’t do what dermpath did), and fight off consolidation from major reference labs (they have a purpose but should never be the standard). Pathologists also should consider taking back ground from phds and path assistants. Protect the turf or die.

 

[SunBakedTrash]

We may have vulva pathology fellowship in the near future.

I would probably hire a vulva pathologist. Those are way harder than any GI case I ever read.

 

[WEBB PINKERTON]

lmao so true.

Don’t increase residency slots. Protect valuable subspecialties like molecular from encroachment (don’t do what dermpath did), and fight off consolidation from major reference labs (they have a purpose but should never be the standard). Pathologists also should consider taking back ground from phds and path assistants. Protect the turf or die.

What ground have path assistants taken that needs to be reclaimed? Path needs to fight reference lab, large hospital and private equity for sure. May be a losing battle though. Go rural, fly under radar, make fortune, pursue other endeavors. Or live in desirable high cost area, fight for crumbs and work till you die at scope or monitor

 

[mike-sheree]

I believe the best way to determine if there is a surplus of pathologists is by looking at average volume of cases signed out. Until you see 8-10K per path being the norm, there isn’t a shortage. You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Spikebd]

What ground have path assistants taken that needs to be reclaimed? Path needs to fight reference lab, large hospital and private equity for sure. May be a losing battle though. Go rural, fly under radar, make fortune, pursue other endeavors. Or live in desirable high cost area, fight for crumbs and work till you die at scope or monitor

Grossing. I’ve seen far too many poorly grossed specimens. And paths shouldn’t be slaving away signing out 8000 surgicals a year. Life is too short.

 

[KeratinPearls]

PathGroup, a superlab is on the move. They have 200+ pathologists and growing. Now, partnering with a private equity company. Don’t think you can stop them lol.

GTCR Announces Recapitalization of PathGroup

/PRNewswire/ -- GTCR, a leading private equity firm, announced today that it has made a majority investment in PathGroup Holdings LLC ("PathGroup" or the...

www.prnewswire.com

“Kirkland & Ellis advised PathGroup, a premier provider of anatomic, clinical, molecular and digital pathology services in the United States, on a majority investment in the company from GTCR, a leading private equity firm, in partnership with founder and CEO Ben Davis, MD and the PathGroup management team, who have made a substantial reinvestment in PathGroup.”

Sonic acquired Propath:

Sonic Healthcare Acquires Propath, while PathGroup Buys Pathology Consultants in More Signs of a Consolidating Market

In signs of a consolidating anatomic pathology market, Sonic Healthcare acquires Propath and PathGroup buys Pathology Consultants.

www.darkdaily.com

“The decision by two of the nation’s leading regional pathology groups to sell themselves to larger pathology entities confirms that the trend of consolidation is continuing within the pathology profession. It is also a sign that smaller pathology groups will find it increasingly difficult to compete and stay profitable as new technologies transform the surgical pathology profession, such a digital pathology platforms.”

PathGroup partnering up with Proscia for digital pathology. Looks like these super labs will utilize digital pathology between their pathologists.

PathGroup Chooses Proscia To Deliver Next Generation Of Cancer Diagnosis For Millions of Patients

March 7, 2023 — Proscia, a leading provider of digital and computational pathology solutions, today announced that PathGroup, one of the largest providers of anatomic, clinical, digital, and molecular pathology services in the United States, will advance the 150-year-old standard of diagn

www.itnonline.com

Expect to work for a superlab, a large healthcare entity like HCA or a community hospital owned by an academic hospital while signing out cases via digital pathology.

If you are in a small group, you will get eaten up eventually. You wont be able to compete.

Proscia’s Concentrix Dx digital pathology platform.

Modern Digital Pathology Software Platform | Proscia

Concentriq® Dx is used by leading reference laboratories, hospitals and health systems to advance the standard of care from the limitations of glass to the fully digital diagnostic future of pathology.

proscia.com

 

[path24]

With digital path, you will have multiple state licenses and work for cheap. There is no radiology shortage here. Academics, corporate healthcare, etc....will make sure there is always cheap labor coming down the pipe. 50% of your pc is going to an mba. Nobody is really going to care about where you did residency. How cheap will you sign out an adenoma. Liability, that is on you doc. The current less crappy job market isn't going to last. Nope, inefficiencies are getting taken care (digital path/consolidation). But don't worry, we will still increase residency spots. Medicine is getting worse, but pathology will always be one of the worst fields in medicine.

 

[caffeinegirl]

With digital path, you will have multiple state licenses and work for cheap. There is no radiology shortage here. Academics, corporate healthcare, etc....will make sure there is always cheap labor coming down the pipe. 50% of your pc is going to an mba. Nobody is really going to care about where you did residency. How cheap will you sign out an adenoma. Liability, that is on you doc. The current less crappy job market isn't going to last. Nope, inefficiencies are getting taken care (digital path/consolidation). But don't worry, we will still increase residency spots. Medicine is getting worse, but pathology will always be one of the worst fields in medicine.

+100 to what path24 said. There is serious consolidation and significant cost-cutting efficiencies coming down the pipeline. This is true in many fields of medicine, but pathologists will feel this sooner and more acutely with the onset of digital pathology. The difference between the radiology and pathology market is test volume - there are significantly more radiology tests that need professional review/reporting than pathology tests that need professional review/reporting per capita/patient. Once the barrier to entry (cost of technology) for digital pathology decreases, it's only a matter of time before it'll be the norm.

 

[Lyme]

With digital path, you will have multiple state licenses and work for cheap. There is no radiology shortage here. Academics, corporate healthcare, etc....will make sure there is always cheap labor coming down the pipe. 50% of your pc is going to an mba. Nobody is really going to care about where you did residency. How cheap will you sign out an adenoma. Liability, that is on you doc. The current less crappy job market isn't going to last. Nope, inefficiencies are getting taken care (digital path/consolidation). But don't worry, we will still increase residency spots. Medicine is getting worse, but pathology will always be one of the worst fields in medicine.

I think the problem is complicated. We must look at (1) college/medical school tuition, (2) costs patients have to pay, and (3) physicians' salaries. It should be the issue if there is a mismatch between those three. We blame private equities for low physician salaries. But wait, what if they can provide affordable healthcare? I had blood tests done with Quest. They provided very competitive prices. From a customer standpoint, I see Quest did a really good job. What about greedy college/medical school administrators? I don't see anyone blaming Harvard/Yale,... for 80,000 bucks a year/of tuition? 8 years of college/medical school are too long? Could we reduce it to 6 years in total?

 

[Spikebd]

PathGroup, a superlab is on the move. They have 200+ pathologists and growing. Now, partnering with a private equity company. Don’t think you can stop them lol.

GTCR Announces Recapitalization of PathGroup

/PRNewswire/ -- GTCR, a leading private equity firm, announced today that it has made a majority investment in PathGroup Holdings LLC ("PathGroup" or the...

www.prnewswire.com

“Kirkland & Ellis advised PathGroup, a premier provider of anatomic, clinical, molecular and digital pathology services in the United States, on a majority investment in the company from GTCR, a leading private equity firm, in partnership with founder and CEO Ben Davis, MD and the PathGroup management team, who have made a substantial reinvestment in PathGroup.”

Sonic acquired Propath:

Sonic Healthcare Acquires Propath, while PathGroup Buys Pathology Consultants in More Signs of a Consolidating Market

In signs of a consolidating anatomic pathology market, Sonic Healthcare acquires Propath and PathGroup buys Pathology Consultants.

www.darkdaily.com

“The decision by two of the nation’s leading regional pathology groups to sell themselves to larger pathology entities confirms that the trend of consolidation is continuing within the pathology profession. It is also a sign that smaller pathology groups will find it increasingly difficult to compete and stay profitable as new technologies transform the surgical pathology profession, such a digital pathology platforms.”

PathGroup partnering up with Proscia for digital pathology. Looks like these super labs will utilize digital pathology between their pathologists.

PathGroup Chooses Proscia To Deliver Next Generation Of Cancer Diagnosis For Millions of Patients

March 7, 2023 — Proscia, a leading provider of digital and computational pathology solutions, today announced that PathGroup, one of the largest providers of anatomic, clinical, digital, and molecular pathology services in the United States, will advance the 150-year-old standard of diagn

www.itnonline.com

Expect to work for a superlab, a large healthcare entity like HCA or a community hospital owned by an academic hospital while signing out cases via digital pathology.

If you are in a small group, you will get eaten up eventually. You wont be able to compete.

Proscia’s Concentrix Dx digital pathology platform.

Modern Digital Pathology Software Platform | Proscia

Concentriq® Dx is used by leading reference laboratories, hospitals and health systems to advance the standard of care from the limitations of glass to the fully digital diagnostic future of pathology.

proscia.com

Pretty sure there will be a certain point where signing out cases won’t be worth it and people will literally quit and do another job.

Good luck to these private equity groups. It’s possible they’ll light their own money on fire. Wouldn’t be that surprising seeing how banks are imploding again.

 

[KeratinPearls]

Pretty sure there will be a certain point where signing out cases won’t be worth it and people will literally quit and do another job.

Good luck to these private equity groups. It’s possible they’ll light their own money on fire. Wouldn’t be that surprising seeing how banks are imploding again.

They will pay pathologists enough to keep them happy but not too low that there’s a lot of turnover but with digital pathology, slides will be accessible to anyone who is willing to sign out cases for pay. So if you don’t want to do it, corporations will find someone else to do it. With digital pathology where slides can be accessed anywhere in the country, who knows how low they will go.

There comes a point where they can’t go lower or they will have no pathologist to do the work. They do have a business to run and they need to generate revenue.

Take Quest. I think they currently pay pathologists at one location in the range of 250-300K to sign out 100 88305s a day. (I got friends who work there). That’s like $900,000 in revenue a year with 6 weeks vacation. They pay enough to keep them happy, but not too low that they leave and there’s high turnover.

What if Quest pays $200,000 a year to look at 100 88305s??? I’m sure some poor soul would still take it. There comes a point where if you lower the salary too much, there will probably be no one who would work for you. Quest probably realized at a pay of 250-300 they can get some bodies there and stay there. Even as evil as Quest is, they probably don’t want high turnover. I don’t think there’s high turnover where my friends work either.

Quest has a business to run and I think they do want to keep pathologists happy and have a good work culture. I’m sure they don’t want miserable low paid pathologists who come and leave.

I don’t know how someone could work for Quest and use their hard earned skills to generate so much money for someone else, but my friends seem happy there. I do think they might not have many options in terms of better jobs in the surrounding area, so they can’t just quit.

Seriously, I think if the surrounding area has an abundance of hospital based jobs with employers screaming come work for me and tell them I’ll give you a $500K partnership in 2-3 years, they’d quit in a heartbeat.

That’s the thing with pathology. There are limited jobs regionally. You got to take what you can get and keep your eyes open for better opportunities. If better opportunities don’t come along, be grateful for your job and just stick to where you are. If there’s a better opportunity and you’re interested, you will probably be competing with other pathologists for the same spot.

 

[caffeinegirl]

Take Quest. I think they currently pay pathologists at one location in the range of 250-300K to sign out 100 88305s a day. (I got friends who work there). That’s like $900,000 in revenue a year with 6 weeks vacation. They pay enough to keep them happy, but not too low that they leave and there’s high turnover.

What if Quest pays $200,000 a year to look at 100 88305s. I’m sure some poor soul would still take it. There comes a point where if you lower the salary too much, there will probably be no one who would work for you. Quest probably realized at a pay of 250-300 they can get some bodies there.

What if with digital pathology and an AI assistant, it takes you only 2-3 hours to do 100 88305's? I'd take 200K for that as long as I'm not on the clock for the rest of the time (and malpractice is covered). There is an economic COLA sweet spot for $/hour. Just my perspective...

 

[SunBakedTrash]

They will pay pathologists enough to keep them happy but not too low that there’s a lot of turnover but with digital pathology, slides will be accessible to anyone who is willing to sign out cases for pay. So if you don’t want to do it, corporations will find someone else to do it.

There comes a point where they can’t go lower or they will have no pathologist to do the work. They do have a business to run and they need to generate revenue.

Take Quest. I think they currently pay pathologists in the range of 250-300K to sign out 100 88305s a day. (I got friends who work there). That’s like $900,000 in revenue a year with 6 weeks vacation. They pay enough to keep them happy, but not too low that they leave and there’s high turnover.

I don’t know how someone could work for Quest and use their hard earned skills to generate so much money for someone else, but my friends seem happy there. I do think they might not have many options in terms of better jobs in the surrounding area, so they can’t just quit.

No frozen sections, no call, no autopsies, no cp, no clinicians, no tumor board. Probably no resections either. That’s also average pay to live in a big coastal city. There are many pathologists who are in the specialty because this is all they could get. They don’t care about the future of it. They are not moving to flyover country to save the specialty. They would probably take 70k if it meant not moving to BFE and maintaining a lifestyle of pushing glass undisturbed and then punching out.

 

[KeratinPearls]

What if with digital pathology and an AI assistant, it takes you only 2-3 hours to do 100 88305's? I'd take 200K for that as long as I'm not on the clock for the rest of the time (and malpractice is covered). There is an economic COLA sweet spot for $/hour. Just my perspective...

Sure I’d take that too for 200K.

With digital pathology/AI, less pathologists would be needed altogether, which may lead to a crappy job market as fewer pathologists needed to do work, which has been brought up already. Hopefully, there’s more work to go around in the years to come but it’s going to be interesting what happens to the job market as digital path/AI become mainstream.

 

[KeratinPearls]

No frozen sections, no call, no autopsies, no cp, no clinicians, no tumor board. Probably no resections either. That’s also average pay to live in a big coastal city. There are many pathologists who are in the specialty because this is all they could get. They don’t care about the future of it. They are not moving to flyover country to save the specialty. They would probably take 70k if it meant not moving to BFE and maintaining a lifestyle of pushing glass undisturbed and then punching out.

Not sure if I’d go that low lol. $70,000 a year is low and people got families to feed. Unless there aren’t any other options then yes but I don’t think it’ll ever go that low. If it does then medical students wouldn’t even consider Pathology (even FMGs) and Pathology would totally collapse. This is a doomsday scenario lol.

You go that low I doubt anyone would work for you and the business would go under.

Yes at Quest youre just pushing glass, work 40 hour weeks and you are able to go home at a very reasonable time, which works for some people.

 

[Spikebd]

They will pay pathologists enough to keep them happy but not too low that there’s a lot of turnover but with digital pathology, slides will be accessible to anyone who is willing to sign out cases for pay. So if you don’t want to do it, corporations will find someone else to do it. With digital pathology where slides can be accessed anywhere in the country, who knows how low they will go.

There comes a point where they can’t go lower or they will have no pathologist to do the work. They do have a business to run and they need to generate revenue.

Take Quest. I think they currently pay pathologists at one location in the range of 250-300K to sign out 100 88305s a day. (I got friends who work there). That’s like $900,000 in revenue a year with 6 weeks vacation. They pay enough to keep them happy, but not too low that they leave and there’s high turnover.

What if Quest pays $200,000 a year to look at 100 88305s??? I’m sure some poor soul would still take it. There comes a point where if you lower the salary too much, there will probably be no one who would work for you. Quest probably realized at a pay of 250-300 they can get some bodies there and stay there. Even as evil as Quest is, they probably don’t want high turnover. I don’t think there’s high turnover where my friends work either.

Quest has a business to run and I think they do want to keep pathologists happy and have a good work culture. I’m sure they don’t want miserable low paid pathologists who come and leave.

I don’t know how someone could work for Quest and use their hard earned skills to generate so much money for someone else, but my friends seem happy there. I do think they might not have many options in terms of better jobs in the surrounding area, so they can’t just quit.

Seriously, I think if the surrounding area has an abundance of hospital based jobs with employers screaming come work for me and tell them I’ll give you a $500K partnership in 2-3 years, they’d quit in a heartbeat.

That’s the thing with pathology. There are limited jobs regionally. You got to take what you can get and keep your eyes open for better opportunities. If better opportunities don’t come along, be grateful for your job and just stick to where you are. If there’s a better opportunity and you’re interested, you will probably be competing with other pathologists for the same spot.

Imo we overestimate how hard people want to work.

This is the post-Covid era. People aren’t gonna be signing out 100 88305s a day for more than a couple of years. The days of hustling like that are over. I don’t blame them one bit.

 

[Spikebd]

Not sure if I’d go that low lol. $70,000 a year is low and people got families to feed. Unless there aren’t any other options then yes but I don’t think it’ll ever go that low. If it does then medical students wouldn’t even consider Pathology (even FMGs) and Pathology would totally collapse. This is a doomsday scenario lol.

You go that low I doubt anyone would work for you and the business would go under.

Yes at Quest youre just pushing glass, work 40 hour weeks and you are able to go home at a very reasonable time, which works for some people.

Many millennials don’t really have kids

 

[KeratinPearls]

Many millennials don’t really have kids

Yeah most people don’t have kids nowadays. It’s just getting so expensive but my friends do have kids who work there. The other pathologists are older. I’ve seen pictures of their group no one looks like a millennial. Everyone looks 40+