2025 Tax Cuts

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UscGhost said:
So what?

Guess who tend to be uninsured...the poor, kids, and non working elderly.

Uninsured dropped to record low levels. Republicans never were able to come up with anything better.

Did you have a different solution?
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My point is you can’t brag about programs and pump up the numbers when the purpose of the ACA was not only to give people Medicaid but also to make sure more affordable care available on the individual market.

You can’t be serious if you didn’t understand that’s how the ACA was sold to the public.

You still have millions of uninsured people and the the vast majority of people you have taken off the uninsured data points are just going on Medicaid. The free stuff. That’s the only selling point of the ACA. Giving away free stuff.

Nothing has been fixed about the ACA exchanges (individual markets). It’s essentially free money for the private insurance to collect more profit

My solution is to have a very limited Public option and even the Dems ran away from that. But the Dems wanted a wide open public option (with no safety guards to prevent it from growing to an albatross of an entitlement program) and obviously the republicans didn’t want it for the same reason. That it would lead to single payor as the public option grew.

You have a public options with limited funding. Force a super majority 66% vote if more funding is needed to prevent its growth. Unless an overwhelming public support expanding it. It’s so simple. But the Dems wanted an open checkbook to expand it as needed.
 
aneftp said:
My point is you can’t brag about programs and pump up the numbers when the purpose of the ACA was not only to give people Medicaid but also to make sure more affordable care available on the individual market.

You can’t be serious if you didn’t understand that’s how the ACA was sold to the public.

You still have millions of uninsured people and the the vast majority of people you have taken off the uninsured data points are just going on Medicaid. The free stuff. That’s the only selling point of the ACA. Giving away free stuff.

Nothing has been fixed about the ACA exchanges (individual markets). It’s essentially free money for the private insurance to collect more profit

My solution is to have a very limited Public option and even the Dems ran away from that. But the Dems wanted a wide open public option (with no safety guards to prevent it from growing to an albatross of an entitlement program) and obviously the republicans didn’t want it for the same reason. That it would lead to single payor as the public option grew.

You have a public options with limited funding. Force a super majority 66% vote if more funding is needed to prevent its growth. Unless an overwhelming public support expanding it. It’s so simple. But the Dems wanted an open checkbook to expand it as needed.
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Again. Who cares?

Care was more affordable, because more people signed up (aka, they could afford to sign up). I don't care how they signed up. Very poor got it for free, poor got heavy subsidies, regular folks paid the same or less depending on their income. Those who paid more were paying more each year prior to ACA, as rates have always increased

It Isn't the ACA fault that health insurance companies are profiting. They profit on each customer, so if you get more customers, you get more profit.

If you want them to make less, then cap insurance profit margins (fine with me). But that wasnt part of the ACA.

You solution to have a limited public option is just the same plan as pre ACA. Then you have millions of kids without insurance and uninsured goes back up. That's not a plan.

What would your plan be to reduce the percentage of uninsured?

You only have a few options

ACA (reduced it by millions to record low levels)

Reduce ACA funding (that would increase uninsured, so no go), and patient is just show up in the ER and society pays for it on the backend, often more costly

Increase ACA funding (further reduces uninsured)

Better idea
Continue ACA or increase it
Increase taxes on wealthy to fund it
Cap insurance companies profits and admin expenses
 
UscGhost said:
Again. Who cares?

Care was more affordable, because more people signed up (aka, they could afford to sign up). I don't care how they signed up. Very poor got it for free, poor got heavy subsidies, regular folks paid the same or less depending on their income. Those who paid more were paying more each year prior to ACA, as rates have always increased

It Isn't the ACA fault that health insurance companies are profiting. They profit on each customer, so if you get more customers, you get more profit.

If you want them to make less, then cap insurance profit margins (fine with me). But that wasnt part of the ACA.

You solution to have a limited public option is just the same plan as pre ACA. Then you have millions of kids without insurance and uninsured goes back up. That's not a plan.

What would your plan be to reduce the percentage of uninsured?

You only have a few options

ACA (reduced it by millions to record low levels)

Reduce ACA funding (that would increase uninsured, so no go), and patient is just show up in the ER and society pays for it on the backend, often more costly

Increase ACA funding (further reduces uninsured)

Better idea
Continue ACA or increase it
Increase taxes on wealthy to fund it
Cap insurance companies profits and admin expenses
Click to expand...
Taxpayers care.

You don’t care because it doesn’t affect you. That’s why you don’t care. There is a ton of bias here

All the people who claim to be bleeding heart liberals run for the hills when they can be negatively impacted. If people claim they don’t mind paying 30k extra in taxes. Go ahead. You can donate the 30k to whatever charity you want if you don’t care

So let’s stop being hypocritical here

Everything is tax the rich. Sometime u gotta see where exactly the money is going to. The money is going to the insurers who have a blank check due to the ACA and the Supreme Court confirming insurers cannot lose any money on the exchanges. You don’t have a problem with that?
 
aneftp said:
Taxpayers care.

You don’t care because it doesn’t affect you. That’s why you don’t care. There is a ton of bias here

All the people who claim to be bleeding heart liberals run for the hills when they can be negatively impacted. If people claim they don’t mind paying 30k extra in taxes. Go ahead. You can donate the 30k to whatever charity you want if you don’t care

So let’s stop being hypocritical here

Everything is tax the rich. Sometime u gotta see where exactly the money is going to. The money is going to the insurers who have a blank check due to the ACA and the Supreme Court confirming insurers cannot lose any money on the exchanges. You don’t have a problem with that?
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I don't pay taxes? I'll have to ask my CPA why I kept sending all of those payments to someone called the IRS then..

I have no problem with taxes. I have paid far more in taxes than the benefits I will receive from entitlements. If I become super rich, I'll be glad to pay taxes then too. So not sure who is hypocritical.

Like I said, I would love to see profit limits on health insurance companies, and oil companies too. But ACA wasn't intended to do that. If Maga wants to do that in order to save the government money, great.

But so far, you havent actually proposed a better way to reduce the uninsured.

Stop jumping all over the place to avoid the hard questions
 
UscGhost said:
I don't pay taxes? I'll have to ask my CPA why I kept sending all of those payments to someone called the IRS then..

I have no problem with taxes. I have paid far more in taxes than the benefits I will receive from entitlements. If I become super rich, I'll be glad to pay taxes then too. So not sure who is hypocritical.

Like I said, I would love to see profit limits on health insurance companies, and oil companies too. But ACA wasn't intended to do that. If Maga wants to do that in order to save the government money, great.

But so far, you havent actually proposed a better way to reduce the uninsured.

Stop jumping all over the place to avoid the hard questions
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The hard answers is to limit healthcare. That’s the big savings.

The hard answer to reduce uninsured is to force everyone to pay into the system. We don’t have enough federal tax payers. The uk has system where everyone pays. Do you see 40% of uk citizens not pay the equivalent of uk federal taxes.

The have social insurance they all pay into. It’s very simple. Vermont tired to propose it. It was shot down by the same liberals who want social insurance. ….America is not ready to pay for it. Because Americans are very selfish



“What I learned the hard way,” Shumlin said, “is it isn’t just about reforming the broken payment system. Public financing will not work until you get costs under control.”

““It’s easy to write a bill saying we are going to cover everybody,” said a member of his staff who worked on the plan and spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid a professional conflict. “It’s much harder to figure out . . . what exactly your benefit coverage will be [and] are you going to have co-payments.”

“As liberals still contend, Shumlin said the newly enacted Affordable Care Act signed by President Barack Obama “wouldn’t take us far enough,” recalled a former legislative leader who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid a professional conflict.” (And they were correct) article written in 2019
 
aneftp said:
The hard answers is to limit healthcare. That’s the big savings.

The hard answer to reduce uninsured is to force everyone to pay into the system. We don’t have enough federal tax payers. The uk has system where everyone pays. Do you see 40% of uk citizens not pay the equivalent of uk federal taxes.

The have social insurance they all pay into. It’s very simple. Vermont tired to propose it. It was shot down by the same liberals who want social insurance. ….America is not ready to pay for it. Because Americans are very selfish



“What I learned the hard way,” Shumlin said, “is it isn’t just about reforming the broken payment system. Public financing will not work until you get costs under control.”

““It’s easy to write a bill saying we are going to cover everybody,” said a member of his staff who worked on the plan and spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid a professional conflict. “It’s much harder to figure out . . . what exactly your benefit coverage will be [and] are you going to have co-payments.”

“As liberals still contend, Shumlin said the newly enacted Affordable Care Act signed by President Barack Obama “wouldn’t take us far enough,” recalled a former legislative leader who spoke on the condition of anonymity to avoid a professional conflict.” (And they were correct) article written in 2019
Click to expand...
So your answer is to ask the people can least afford to pay, to pay more?

And you oppose the solution asking the richest folks to pay more (despite the fact that they could afford it with zero change in their quality of life)?

Meanwhile the GOP is proposing 4 trillion more in tax cuts (predominantly to the rich) and the wealth disparity continues to accelerate.

Doesn't seem like a logical way to run a society
 
UscGhost said:
So your answer is to ask the people can least afford to pay, to pay more?

And you oppose the solution asking the richest folks to pay more (despite the fact that they could afford it with zero change in their quality of life)?

Meanwhile the GOP is proposing 4 trillion more in tax cuts (predominantly to the rich) and the wealth disparity continues to accelerate.

Doesn't seem like a logical way to run a society
Click to expand...
My solution is to have everyone chip in like the rest of the civilized countries.

I don’t agree with the tax cuts but the way. I’m not maga as everyone assumes.

I’m a realist who sees the world. The gop plan is to help the poor and lower middle class (as evident by bush 43 tax cuts and trump). The Lower middle lower class actually paid more in federal taxes under bill Clinton. I bet you and others would be surprised to hear that.

So that’s why Obama had this huge dilemma and why he kept the bush tax cuts for anyone making less the 400k (99%) of the population

This is a fascinating chart of the tax load. The lower class actually contributed more of the tax burden than they do these days. It’s called sharing the tax burden.

Until you get a president who wants to raise taxes again on the lower class. We will continue to have class warfare especially with the rich getting richer

So the Dems have the same problem the republicans have. Once you get people used to not paying any federal taxes under bush and now trump. It’s not like the democrats can try to raise the taxes on the lower class again? Right?

So both parties are to blame and no one wants to do anything about the budget or deficit. Am I right or wrong?

The Dems want to tax the rich while keeping the botom 40% from not paying any taxes. While the republicans want to give tax cuts to the rich and keep taxes zero for the poor but want to cut entitlement programs.

My friend. We are f’d.

This is why I always stated bill clinton is my favorite president. I love the guy. First democratic guy I ever voted for. Shady as heck. Loves his side chicks and Hilary still put up with him. Loves fried chicken.


“These figures show clearly that taxes on the middle and lower income quintile have dropped substantially over the last decade, even after ignoring the effects of the recession. Though the Clinton years featured higher taxes on the rich, they also featured a more balanced tax code with higher taxes on middle and lower income taxpayers, and fewer nonpayers of the federal income tax. Those advocating a painless return to Clinton era tax policy should note the full implications of such a tax policy shift.
taxfoundation.org

Federal Tax Burden Under Clinton Higher on All, Not Just the Rich

Ezra Klein of the Washington Post’s Wonkblog posted a blog post this week titled “Democrats don’t want to go back to Clinton-era rates” which pointed out that middle income and low income taxpayers had a substantially higher burden under Clinton. Klein is right: returning to those Clinton era...
taxfoundation.org taxfoundation.org
 

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chessknt said:
Incredible that the deficit doesnt matter again. Cutting Medicaid to give tax cuts to the wealthiest people is truly disgusting.
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Also amazing that
G.A.S Team said:
I believe the number is 85 million low-income and disabled people on Medicaid as of 2022. That number has probably skyrocketed after Biden's disastrous presidency. The whole thing needs an audit.

Speaker Johnson spoke about this last night on both CNN and Fox News. The goal is not to remove the single mother with multiple small children. The cuts are more geared towards the single 25-30 year old with a useless college degree that has no desire to find work and prefers to live in the basement of their parent's house. Also illegal immigrants if any are using the program at some of the Blue States.

I am a Christian and I'm a moderate conservative. The idea that advocating for fiscal responsibility and having a sustainable model is against my religious beliefs is outrageous --but a constant argument of the left.
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keep in mind that the “able bodied adults, who are mooching off the system” typically use very little healthcare. They may be on Medicaid but are not a big cost.
 
aneftp said:
Everything is a strawman argument when data can be skewed against any argument.

It’s like me saying the vast majority of people on the individual exchanges already had insurance whether through losing coverage with employer coverage and switching over (to get the subsidy) or moving from direct coverage (no subsidy) on the individual market to the ACA exchanges.

Plus this “lack of empathy “ angle.

I’m merely saying the ACA doesn’t bring new pausing people into the system (Medicaid growth).

The individual market is still bad. Exactly is very bad now that people have to pay cobra like prices. Thus very little growth from 5.4% on non group plans pre ACA ro 6.2% on non group plans in 2023

As for affordable healthcare. It was affordable for the VAST MAJORITY of working adults pre ACA on the individual market. We are talking $100-200/month premiums with $2500 deductible pre ACA for the VAST MAJORITY of working adults.

It’s now become UNAFFORDABLE for the VAST MAJORITY of adults is what you are saying unless it’s given away for free or heavily subsidized.

And that’s the truth.
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But what does any of this have to do with work requirements for Medicaid?
 
ASA6 said:
But what does any of this have to do with work requirements for Medicaid?
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I got side track on the discussion I wanted to discuss involving social security disability and Medicare and Medicaid

I originally was going after fibromyalgia as a diagnosis and the Obama administration allowing it as a reason to claim disability in 2012. And fibromyalgia is mixed in with the 40% of those who claim back pain as for disability. And most of those on social security disability not only get Medicare but also Medicaid. Like 88%. Tired of the fibromyalgia diagnosis.

I just want people to pay into the system. Yes. Im
Aware some Medicaid has a small copay.
 

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I don’t know how anyone with any conscience or soul can suggest that people must work to have Medicaid. Honestly if you shove people off of Medicaid you guarantee they’ll suffer from deteriorating poor health and will likely get trapped into endless medical debt.

We are the richest country in the world and the only modern country without universal healthcare. We should be ashamed collectively.

Universal coverage is the only answer, especially with a country as rich as we are.

And we should be collectively horrified that the richest man in the world “reclaimed” 0.6% of the federal budget by screwing the world’s poor by terminating all foreign aid. If anything we should be spending 5% of the federal budget on foreign aid. The <1% we’d been spending did an extraordinary amount of good.

But it seems we now vote on the side of North Korea and Russia at the UN so we’re destined to just be idiots.
 
kidthor said:
I don’t know how anyone with any conscience or soul can suggest that people must work to have Medicaid. Honestly if you shove people off of Medicaid you guarantee they’ll suffer from deteriorating poor health and will likely get trapped into endless medical debt.

We are the richest country in the world and the only modern country without universal healthcare. We should be ashamed collectively.

Universal coverage is the only answer, especially with a country as rich as we are.

And we should be collectively horrified that the richest man in the world “reclaimed” 0.6% of the federal budget by screwing the world’s poor by terminating all foreign aid. If anything we should be spending 5% of the federal budget on foreign aid. The <1% we’d been spending did an extraordinary amount of good.

But it seems we now vote on the side of North Korea and Russia at the UN so we’re destined to just be idiots.
Click to expand...
Can’t do universal healthcare without extreme rationing. Americans are just not ready for that.
 
kidthor said:
I don’t know how anyone with any conscience or soul can suggest that people must work to have Medicaid. Honestly if you shove people off of Medicaid you guarantee they’ll suffer from deteriorating poor health and will likely get trapped into endless medical debt.

We are the richest country in the world and the only modern country without universal healthcare. We should be ashamed collectively.

Universal coverage is the only answer, especially with a country as rich as we are.

And we should be collectively horrified that the richest man in the world “reclaimed” 0.6% of the federal budget by screwing the world’s poor by terminating all foreign aid. If anything we should be spending 5% of the federal budget on foreign aid. The
But it seems we now vote on the side of North Korea and Russia at the UN so we’re destined to just be idiots.
Click to expand...

If we do that, you’ll be the first one crying when they slash your pay while simultaneously raising your taxes. As a physician, you need to think more deeply than this. If you’ve never been in an eat why you kill practice, you probably will never get it.
 
centdoc said:
If we do that, you’ll be the first one crying when they slash your pay while simultaneously raising your taxes. As a physician, you need to think more deeply than this. If you’ve never been in an eat why you kill practice, you probably will never get it.
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I’m fine with that.

I’d rather live in a country where people aren’t suffering due to extraordinary wealth inequality. As for the taxes - they should also impose a wealth tax on the ultra billionaires. If it drives them out of the country, all the better.
 
kidthor said:
I’m fine with that.

I’d rather live in a country where people aren’t suffering due to extraordinary wealth inequality. As for the taxes - they should also impose a wealth tax on the ultra billionaires. If it drives them out of the country, all the better.
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Sounds good in theory.

What usually happpens is the central govt takes all the wealth from everyone. Including the billionaires.

We all be eating ramen noodles equally

While the central leaders all eat filet.

Look how well the elite democrats eat like pelosi.

www.yahoo.com

The net worth of richest Congress members

Plenty of lawmakers owe their fortune to investments made before they took office.
www.yahoo.com www.yahoo.com
 
We cant do universal health care here. Americans are too fat, too sedentary, smoke too much, eat too much crap, and are too entitled. Sure there’s crap in the food here that shouldn’t be… but you can also pick a salad or grilled chicken sandwich from McDonald’s instead of fries. We don’t hold anyone accountable for their ****ty decisions.
 
amyl said:
We cant do universal health care here. Americans are too fat, too sedentary, smoke too much, eat too much crap, and are too entitled. Sure there’s crap in the food here that shouldn’t be… but you can also pick a salad or grilled chicken sandwich from McDonald’s instead of fries. We don’t hold anyone accountable for their ****ty decisions.
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No one wants to cost cutting as well. Europeans don’t put peg in terminal patients like we do.

It’s very tough decisions to make in terms of determining what is essential (primary care) vs the high yield money making (spine surgery).

I made jokes in the past about penile implants. The uk doesn’t do than 400-500 a year and the USA does a staggering 20k a year. Even adjusting for raw number of male populations in each country. It just shows the over utilization of healthcare in the usa.
 
amyl said:
We cant do universal health care here. Americans are too fat, too sedentary, smoke too much, eat too much crap, and are too entitled. Sure there’s crap in the food here that shouldn’t be… but you can also pick a salad or grilled chicken sandwich from McDonald’s instead of fries. We don’t hold anyone accountable for their ****ty decisions.
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I mean we absolutely could but it wouldn't be the same as what patients are used to and even then would be very expensive.
 
aneftp said:
I made jokes in the past about penile implants. The uk doesn’t do than 400-500 a year and the USA does a staggering 20k a year. Even adjusting for raw number of male populations in each country. It just shows the over utilization of healthcare in the usa.
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Why control my microvascular disease when I can just get a pump put in! It’s always the bmi >35, uncontrolled HTN +/- diabetic getting these here. Good thing we cover it through insurance.
 
amyl said:
We cant do universal health care here. Americans are too fat, too sedentary, smoke too much, eat too much crap, and are too entitled. Sure there’s crap in the food here that shouldn’t be… but you can also pick a salad or grilled chicken sandwich from McDonald’s instead of fries. We don’t hold anyone accountable for their ****ty decisions.
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We're still paying for their healthcare. When they need to go to the ER it goes uncompensated and then we pay for it on the backend with taxpayer money to backfill the hospitals.

It's not as if the uninsured don't get healthcare. It's just that they get a BKA or LHC with stent instead of being put onto insulin and a statin. We're paying for it all - we just pay for the stupid version. Plus there's a huge cost in loss of productivity. Who's more effective as a worker - a guy with DM2 on meds or a guy who just got his leg chopped off and is bankrupted at home?

A lot of physicians can't do much math or logic beyond looking at their own personal 401K.
 
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kidthor said:
We're still paying for their healthcare. When they need to go to the ER it goes uncompensated and then we pay for it on the backend with taxpayer money to backfill the hospitals.

It's not as if the uninsured don't get healthcare. It's just that they get a BKA or LHC with stent instead of being put onto insulin and a statin. We're paying for it all - we just pay for the stupid version. Plus there's a huge cost in loss of productivity. Who's more effective as a worker - a guy with DM2 on meds or a guy who just got his leg chopped off and is bankrupted at home?

A lot of physicians can't do much math or logic beyond looking at their own personal 401K.
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This isn’t a physician being greedy.
I’d love to make just 300k 40 hrs a week as long as everyone takes
The same pay cut universal nurses
Hospital admin

Eliminating unnecessary billers.

You will send unemployment through the roof.

People talk about trump eliminating unnecessary federal jobs. This will pale in comparison to all the overhead that gets eliminated by going to universal healthcare.
 
kidthor said:
We're still paying for their healthcare. When they need to go to the ER it goes uncompensated and then we pay for it on the backend with taxpayer money to backfill the hospitals.

It's not as if the uninsured don't get healthcare. It's just that they get a BKA or LHC with stent instead of being put onto insulin and a statin. We're paying for it all - we just pay for the stupid version. Plus there's a huge cost in loss of productivity. Who's more effective as a worker - a guy with DM2 on meds or a guy who just got his leg chopped off and is bankrupted at home?

A lot of physicians can't do much math or logic beyond looking at their own personal 401K.
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How compliant would these people be both on diet and with insulin to control their sugars?

Would the guy getting a cath not be smoking or eating garbage?

We pay for stuff in the front end for all people, insured and Medicaid, right now. Unlikely the math you talk about would change from what we see now.
 
NukHopkins said:
How compliant would these people be both on diet and with insulin to control their sugars?

Would the guy getting a cath not be smoking or eating garbage?

We pay for stuff in the front end for all people, insured and Medicaid, right now. Unlikely the math you talk about would change from what we see now.
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Youre right **** em don't even give them a chance to do better--insulin $1000/month to guarantee end stage kidney disease then they get on medicare and we can pay for their dialysis and transplant. Save so much money that way.
 
Dr. Rude said:
Neither has Trump. He hasn't passed one piece of legislation. Everything is by Executive orders.
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That’s what I mean. Congress is doing nothing. Talk about a free ride. They barely work 3 days a week to began with.

We all know most fly in Monday evening and leave Thursday afternoon.
 
aneftp said:
That’s what I mean. Congress is doing nothing. Talk about a free ride. They barely work 3 days a week to began with.

We all know most fly in Monday evening and leave Thursday afternoon.
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Remember this one? 😂


mynbc15.com

GOP Congresswoman absent since July found in independent living facility: report

Retiring Texas congresswoman and former House Appropriations Committee Chair Kay Granger has been experiencing “dementia issues” in recent months and is living
mynbc15.com mynbc15.com
 
Burned_Out said:
So tax cuts for the middle class then. I will take it. Beats the crap plan pushed by Kamala to tax unrealized capital gains.
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How many middle class are worth more than 100 million (the net worth cutoff for the proposed tax)?

Sych a tax would have zero affect on the lives of those affected, and it wouldnt tank consumption and the economy like tariffs do
 
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