230+ a good rule?

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hsans23

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I have heard that with 230+ you have a good shot at passing the screen at the better university IM programs...Is this true? Is IM a derm type situation where the higher the step 1 the better, or above that cut off, 230ish kind of value is the step de-emphasized and other parts of the application looked at?

Assuming one is from a blah state school, AOA, 5+ pubs, will a 230-235 be ok to be competitive at some nice univ programs?

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A 230 (remembering that the 2007 USMLE national average is 222), being AOA, combined with strong publications will get you great interviews at some pretty awesome IM programs for sure! However, never count yourself out based solely on numbers. It's cheap to apply, so apply broadly and then decide which ones you'd like to interview at once you are granted interviews. With that said, it may still be difficult to get interviews at several programs like MGH, BID, BWH, Penn, UCSF with a 230 alone. Perhaps a higher step 2 will boost your chances.

Good luck during the upcomming application cycle! You will do very well!
 
It dosn't cost much to apply widely, so REGARDLESS of your USMLE scores or grades, give it a shot.... you never know...

GOOD LUCK :):luck:
 
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There are plenty of exceptions to the 230 rule, trust me and the good advice above. Don't count yourself out if you want to be at "the best (with tongue and cheek)" programs.
 
Based on what I've seen, being AOA with 5+ pubs (assuming they are in decent impact journals and your authorship position was meaningful) will get you interviews at most academic institutions regardless of board scores. A score of 230-235 is extremely solid for IM (from my med school, I know many individuals with scores in that range who matched at the most competitive programs, including MGH, Brigham, UCSF, Hopkins).

In other words, you'll probably be competitive everywhere. Just make sure you get solid letters of rec and do well on your clerkships. The other thing to keep in mind is that fellowships tend to de-emphasize board scores, if that is your goal.
 
Having just gone through the interview process, I would agree that 230+ rule is a pretty good rule of thumb for the competitive IM programs. Sure, it's not 100%, there are exceptions, but I was told by multiple institutions that the initial screening process for applicants involves making a disctinction between those who are >230 and those who are <230.
 
Having just gone through the interview process, I would agree that 230+ rule is a pretty good rule of thumb for the competitive IM programs. Sure, it's not 100%, there are exceptions, but I was told by multiple institutions that the initial screening process for applicants involves making a disctinction between those who are >230 and those who are <230.

do you know if this is STeps 1 and 2 or just STEP 1?


thanks
 
It doesn't really matter right? you do the best you can on the boards and then apply to the programs that interest you. You may or may not get the interviews you want but a lot of this is out of your control. trust the match, it works.
 
the 230 was for step 1. Nobody was interested in step 2, except mayo clinic, and even then they were more interested in step 1. Everyone I spoke with emphasized the step 1 score. One of the reasons step 2 isn't as heavily looked upon is that not everyone has taken it during the interview season...

Does step 1 score matter? (indiamacbean's question)
Well, it matters if the group of schools your looking at has a step 1 cutoff of 230...
 
more like it doesn't matter because everyone will (hopefully) try and do the best they can on the boards and then they will apply to the programs they want. the truth is no one can pick their board score and similarly I imagine that few people actually know with any certainty what score cut offs programs use. I know people at my modest little program in San Francisco with board scores below what people "know" of as the cut off. what does that mean? do the best you can on the boards and then apply where you want and don't put too much faith in SDN.
 
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You're right. I agree - you do the best you can on boards. I was just simply saying that step I matters insomuch as some programs screen applicants with a 230 cutoff. Step 1 becomes important if you are applying to a group of schools that uses this cutoff. I'm not trying to sound smug - I just graduated from a "modest little program" for med school, probably similar to your "modest little program" in SF. And yes, do NOT put too much faith in SDN- I agree on that too.
 
the 230 was for step 1. Nobody was interested in step 2, except mayo clinic, and even then they were more interested in step 1. Everyone I spoke with emphasized the step 1 score. One of the reasons step 2 isn't as heavily looked upon is that not everyone has taken it during the interview season...

Does step 1 score matter? (indiamacbean's question)
Well, it matters if the group of schools your looking at has a step 1 cutoff of 230...


One of the program directors who posts quite often has pointed that she looks at the Step 2 score as a more important score. She goes by aProgDirector when posting.
 
the 230 was for step 1. Nobody was interested in step 2, except mayo clinic...

Agreed. Asked the PD at Mayo Clinic directly when I did an out rotation there and he said all IM residents have Step 2 >235
 
In my experience with recruitment, Step 2 scores serve as a nice "bellweather". It's simply common sense. If your step 1 score was in the 90s (for some reason we tend to use the 2 digit scores for comparison -- and on my fellowship interviews they always referred to my scores by the 2 digit #) but your step 2 was in the 70s -- that's a red flag. Conversely, if your step 1 was low 80s but your step 2 in the 90s -- that's an encouraging trend. If they are similar -- that's just confirmatory info.
 
(for some reason we tend to use the 2 digit scores for comparison -- and on my fellowship interviews they always referred to my scores by the 2 digit #)

That's b/c the 3-digit score is adjusted such that the 2-digit score is comparable across years of test administration. The minimum passing level by 3-digit score changes every year but the 2-digit score minimum pass level is the same across the board (75). So when comparing me (who took Step 1 in 1999 then did a PhD and matched in 2006) to someone who took Step 1 in 2004 and matched in 2006, the 3-digit score is less meaningful than the 2-digit.

I think med students are obsessed w/ the 3-digit score because it's a bigger number, makes them feel smarter.
 
Really? The 2 digit score seems pretty wierd to me. A 240 and 268 gets a 99? That cannot be the same score!!

Trust me! It's almost impossible to get a 268. I got in the low 250s and there is no way my score is equivalent to someone who got in the 260s. Again, doesn't matter...apply broady and rank the programs on where you feel most at home....at least for the next 3 years.
 
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Really? The 2 digit score seems pretty wierd to me. A 240 and 268 gets a 99? That cannot be the same score!!

Trust me! It's almost impossible to get a 268. I got in the low 250s and there is no way my score is equivalent to someone who got in the 260s. Again, doesn't matter...apply broady and rank the programs on where you feel most at home....at least for the next 3 years.

Just for argument's sake, I'm going to pursue this:
Frankly, I think it does make sense. Honestly, do you think the USMLE does a great job of distinguishing between the caliber of someone who scored in the low 250s vs 260s?!? I mean, come on, we get it -- You studied and performed well on the test/you're smart/etc etc :) Maybe some ultracompetitive specialties would use this to screen in/out candidates, but really - it's a pretty shallow way to look at things!

The test score gets you in the door -- but that only gives part of the picture. The whole recruitment/interview/etc process attempts (not always successfully, unfortunately) to gain insight into the candidate to predict success.

During recruitment, I would see a "99" and think "good test taker..., check" and then move on to the next component of the application. It's obviously wonderful but doesn't always translate into good house officer/doctor.
 
I think the test is harshly curved at the top. I think someone who got a 260 maybe got right just a few more questions than someone with a 250, and the 270 got just a few more (even less?) than the 260. Remember how the MCAT was curved: get one question wrong on verbal and your score falls from a 15 to a 14, and then another two wrong and it falls to a 13...

It sounds like the Step 1 is not what will get you into the top IM residencies, but if it's too low it can keep you it. It seems medical school reputation, clinical year grades, AOA, recommendations, and serious research will do more for the application.
 
I still think the scores are important because its only way in which you can standardize all students across the board. Lets face it....for the most part is the guy/girl in your class who gets a 260 better on the wards than the girl/guy who gets a 220. At my school it is definetely true.
 
I have gone to med school at a "top 5" program and IM residency at a "top 20" program. Pick the programs you like to apply to, in your case including the picky/"top" ones. Your 230 should suffice for you, along with having a lot of publications and being a US grad from a university medical school/allopathic school. I would think you'll do well in the match. Don't make any enemies at your school among the attendings, and don't do anything outlandish in your interviews and write a decent application essay, and I would think you'll do quite well. Medicine is not like some of the pickier specialties where 230 is necessary to get in the door at even a moderate-tier program....
 
Some top programs will screen based on Step 1 score, but other top programs will not. Some top programs will screen based on honors in medicine clerkship, but other top programs will not. There is a reason they included these sorting and screening tools in the ERAS software for program directors; it is because some really do use them.

However, the good news is that a number of top medicine programs do not have such hard cutoffs and will look at the strength of your application as a whole.
 
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