24 MCAT, Illinois resident, 3.8 GPA chances?

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whataremychances1@gmail

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Okay, here are my stats:
MCAT:24
PS: 10 VR: 5!! BS: 9
Highly competitive research internships at Duke University and Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
Hispanic

GPA: 3.86
Upper division honors graduate
great EC's and volunteering, and a lot of research
Great LOR's from Hopkins and Northern Illinois (where I graduated)

Granted I was scoring low on verbal during my practice tests, but never (5) low.
Do I have ANY chances for in state MD schools or D.O?

Thanks in advance for the input.

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yeh, had a 102 fever that day but decided to score it and see what happens. It's not representative of my ability but the science scores were. After taking a few months off from studying I'm worried my science scores will drop.
 
Lethal for MD schools; you might have some luck at DO schools, especially the newer ones, so apply broadly. Skip the Touros, CCOM and Western.

Okay, here are my stats:
MCAT:24
PS: 10 VR: 5!! BS: 9
Highly competitive research internships at Duke University and Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
Hispanic

GPA: 3.86
Upper division honors graduate
great EC's and volunteering, and a lot of research
Great LOR's from Hopkins and Northern Illinois (where I graduated)

Granted I was scoring low on verbal during my practice tests, but never (5) low.
Do I have ANY chances for in state MD schools or D.O?

Thanks in advance for the input.
 
Okay, here are my stats:
MCAT:24
PS: 10 VR: 5!! BS: 9
Highly competitive research internships at Duke University and Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
Hispanic

GPA: 3.86
Upper division honors graduate
great EC's and volunteering, and a lot of research
Great LOR's from Hopkins and Northern Illinois (where I graduated)

Granted I was scoring low on verbal during my practice tests, but never (5) low.
Do I have ANY chances for in state MD schools or D.O?

Thanks in advance for the input.

I have no idea what the criteria is for DO schools, but I honestly don't think that you have any chance for MD with a 24 MCAT. Sorry. Best, bet is to retake.
 
Would anyone suggest submitting my AMCAS now, but telling med schools I will be retaking? seems to be the best option.
 
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Would anyone suggest submitting my AMCAS now, but telling med schools I will be retaking? seems to be the best option.
Can't imagine why... They won't look at your app until the score is back. Just apply next year!
 
It will just be late in the app cycle, and I don't foresee a 10 point improvement by then

You don't need a 10 point improvement to get in to a MD school, especially as a URM. The key word was "top." Hispanic students with a 30 and your GPA have a whopping 89% acceptance rate, and your ECs look strong.

You do, however, need a 4-5 point improvement at least, and probably an 8 on VR for MD. If you are confident you can do that, go for it. But just remember two bad scores are exponentially worse than one.

What were your practice tests like? Is verbal a significant challenge for you?
 
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Practice tests were 26-29 range. It's really a shame all of my other stats won't even get me a look from M.D schools. When would be the latest you guys would suggest retaking the MCAT to apply this cycle? late August possibly?
 
I would advise you to decide which one is the better option for you (and only you can make that call):

1) Apply this cycle most likely just to DO schools (would not advise applying MD this cycle... you could try for a late August MCAT, but by the time they get the score, it's very late in the cycle, and you may not even have had enough time to improve)

2) Wait until next year, study very hard, and take the MCAT toward the final few administrations of the pre-2015 MCAT. Provided you see an improvement, then apply to MD.

You have to evaluate what is realistic for you and what your priorities are. Good luck.
 
Practice tests were 26-29 range. It's really a shame all of my other stats won't even get me a look from M.D schools. When would be the latest you guys would suggest retaking the MCAT to apply this cycle? late August possibly?

To be brutally blunt, a 5 suggests difficulty comprehending the English language in a non-science subject. It means you got less than half the questions right.

I'm sure you do understand English well, and are clearly an intelligent person. Your 5 was a fluke. But keep in mind that more than 55,000 applicants outscored you on the MCAT. Medical schools don't want to take the time to verify your intelligence.

It does suck. I'm sure you'll do better if you decide to retake.
 
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If you are from downstate, you may have a shot at SIU.

As others said, you should retake.
 
Do you have a MSAR ? You should get one and look at the stats for schools you are interested in. I'm positive your 24 is well below the 10th percentile at all MD school. If you want MD that badly you need to fix the MCAT with at least a 30.
 
Submitting an AMCAS would be equivalent to burning your wallet.

It might be worth retaking if you're sure you can do better, but you'd better retake at the first possible date. Your app isn't going to be strong so you need to get in now.
 
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I would advise you to decide which one is the better option for you (and only you can make that call):

1) Apply this cycle most likely just to DO schools (would not advise applying MD this cycle... you could try for a late August MCAT, but by the time they get the score, it's very late in the cycle, and you may not even have had enough time to improve)

2) Wait until next year, study very hard, and take the MCAT toward the final few administrations of the pre-2015 MCAT. Provided you see an improvement, then apply to MD.

You have to evaluate what is realistic for you and what your priorities are. Good luck.

Agreed. Either apply DO this year or retake and apply MD next year.
 
You don't sound interested in DO at all. Since your heart isn't with it (be honest with yourself), take the time to get your MCAT up and apply MD next cycle. It'll be worth it and you won't be filled with regret if you end up going DO and thinking back what if I went/I shouldve gone MD.
 
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I would rather not go D.O, Iv'e started intensively studying for the July 12th MCAT. If I can score 4-5 points better, what do you think my M.D outlook would be for this year?
 
28-29 MCAT on a retakd on an app getting verified in august.... Slim chance but better. Not a lot better but better. Are you a urm?
 
Then I would say hardly a chance at all. You won't get your score until August, and you will likely be stuck in the enormous late applicant queue (last year was a total fiasco).

Postpone the application. Even if you manage interviews with a new score, a sub-30 is going to kill your chances with wait lists this late in the season. What's the rush? Do it right the first time (and as a reapplicant, I'd know).
 
Okay, here are my stats:
MCAT:24
PS: 10 VR: 5!! BS: 9
Highly competitive research internships at Duke University and Johns Hopkins School of Medicine.
Hispanic

GPA: 3.86
Upper division honors graduate
great EC's and volunteering, and a lot of research
Great LOR's from Hopkins and Northern Illinois (where I graduated)

Granted I was scoring low on verbal during my practice tests, but never (5) low.
Do I have ANY chances for in state MD schools or D.O?

Thanks in advance for the input.

Hispanic is a URM.... Under Represented Minority
 
Hispanic is a URM.... Under Represented Minority

As @LizzyM mentioned in a similar post, Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race. Found this on the AAMC website.

"Underrepresented in medicine means those racial and ethnic populations that are underrepresented in the medical profession relative to their numbers in the general population."

Including but not limited to Blacks, Mexican-Americans, Native Americans (that is, American Indians, Alaska Natives, and Native Hawaiians), and mainland Puerto Ricans.

Also don't let any of these naysayers say you have no shot at MD schools. You absolutely have a shot.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321512/data/2012factstable25-1.pdf

with a 3.8-4 GPA and 24-26 MCAT between 2010 and 2012 183/276 or 66.3% Hispanic or Latino applicants were accepted into a U.S. MD school.


Now, as you may or may not have noticed, competition to medical school is increasing sharply so everyone will have a harder time getting accepted. Ideally you would not apply until you have the best possible application. @whataremychances1@gmail did you already submit an application this cycle? If you improved on your July MCAT your scores would be in by mid August which would be around the time (I'm guessing) your secondaries would be finished so it wouldn't delay your application much, in fact that is still pretty early in the cycle to be complete.

So did you apply already? What are you doing this year, regardless of the application cycle? Getting a clinically related job or volunteering position would be helpful, or really anything to include in secondaries/talk about it interviews.



Edit - also Illinois is a great state from which to apply to medical school. You will have a great shot at UIC and Rosalind Franklin, especially with a higher MCAT retake. You also will probably have a good chance at Loyola and Rush, again, especially with a higher MCAT.
 
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Also don't let any of these naysayers say you have no shot at MD schools. You absolutely have a shot.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321512/data/2012factstable25-1.pdf

with a 3.8-4 GPA and 24-26 MCAT between 2010 and 2012 183/276 or 66.3% Hispanic or Latino applicants were accepted into a U.S. MD school.

1) As has been pointed out, not all individuals of Hispanic background are URM. No idea how it works, but, for example, the stats for Cuban applicants are pretty similar to white applicants, and I have two "half-Hispanic" friends who were both told not to expect any URM consideration when they applied.

2) The concern isn't the stats in general, but the 5 in VR. That's 2.3 standard deviations below the median for hispanic matriculants, and <50% answers correct.
 
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Do keep in mind, too, that those Hispanic stats include applicants who matriculate at the Puerto Rican med schools. I don't know for sure but they might be very forgiving of relatively low Verbal scores given that those schools use Spanish.
 
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Even using the white applicant grid he still has a shot, 20% of whites with 21-23 (dropped down for a most likely lower verbal) MCAT and 3.8-4.0 GPA were accepted (175/878). Obviously those are not good odds but I want to discontinue use of the phrase (and similar ones) "You have no chance". There is always a chance! I know the chances might be slim but there is still a chance! Though a retake would be best, as mentioned.

I just want people to think more positively! Inspire others! Give people *realistic hope!
 
Even using the white applicant grid he still has a shot, 20% of whites with 21-23 (dropped down for a most likely lower verbal) MCAT and 3.8-4.0 GPA were accepted (175/878). Obviously those are not good odds but I want to discontinue use of the phrase (and similar ones) "You have no chance". There is always a chance! I know the chances might be slim but there is still a chance! Though a retake would be best, as mentioned.

I just want people to think more positively! Inspire others! Give people *realistic hope!
I like hope, but those accepted with his stats tend to be recipients of "affirmative action of the usual kind." They are the sons and daughters of privilege, connections and $. If he possesses these, his chances go up to almost 20%.
 
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I like hope, but those accepted with his stats tend to be recipients of "affirmative action of the usual kind." They are the sons and daughters of privilege, connections and $. If he possesses these, his chances go up to almost 20%.

Not always. I was in a ~20% category and made it in without privilege or major connections. It happens.
 
Not always. I was in a ~20% category and made it in without privilege or major connections. It happens.
It happens! He can't count on it, though. It helps if you fit the mission at mission based schools (think Loma Linda, SIU or UCR).
 
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Even using the white applicant grid he still has a shot, 20% of whites with 21-23 (dropped down for a most likely lower verbal) MCAT and 3.8-4.0 GPA were accepted (175/878). Obviously those are not good odds but I want to discontinue use of the phrase (and similar ones) "You have no chance". There is always a chance! I know the chances might be slim but there is still a chance! Though a retake would be best, as mentioned.

I just want people to think more positively! Inspire others! Give people *realistic hope!

Those stats are over 3 years, so let's call it 58 students on average. Then let's look at a few "IS-only" schools with relatively lax admission standards. UMiss and Shreveport together admitted ~25 people who scored below 24. Guessing a decent number of those were white. There are plenty more schools like those...

I don't think people here are trying to discourage. It's about being prudent. This is a potentially a several thousand dollar decision, and that's not exactly disposable income for many, many people. I honestly think OP could re-take and score 7+ on VR, and get accepted into many MD programs.
 
Those stats are over 3 years, so let's call it 58 students on average. Then let's look at a few "IS-only" schools with relatively lax admission standards. UMiss and Shreveport together admitted ~25 people who scored below 24. Guessing a decent number of those were white. There are plenty more schools like those...

I don't think people here are trying to discourage. It's about being prudent. This is a potentially a several thousand dollar decision, and that's not exactly disposable income for many, many people. I honestly think OP could re-take and score 7+ on VR, and get accepted into many MD programs.

Illinois is a pretty good state to be in as well.

I agree with you and understand everyones' point (did I do that apostrophe correctly? Seriously never learned that) which is why I agreed and said their chances were slim and a retake is ideal (and OP already is planning on the July MCAT which is why I didn't press that specific issue much)... but to get technical, people saying "no chance" are wrong.

And for funsies, only ~50 people got in with my stat range from that grid over the past 3 years, so ~17 per year. And I'm itching for classes to start in 6 weeks!
 
Illinois is a pretty good state to be in as well.

I agree with you and understand everyones' point (did I do that apostrophe correctly? Seriously never learned that) which is why I agreed and said their chances were slim and a retake is ideal (and OP already is planning on the July MCAT which is why I didn't press that specific issue much)... but to get technical, people saying "no chance" are wrong.

Nope, it's everyone's ;) but you can't be faulted for it. Everyone cannot be made plural, that's the general rule.

And for funsies, only ~50 people got in with my stat range from that grid over the past 3 years, so ~17 per year. And I'm itching for classes to start in 6 weeks!

Lowish GPA/high MCAT? Congrats on getting in. Don't take this the wrong way, though, but your success amounts to anecdotal evidence. If OP can afford it, he can apply anywhere he likes. But for financially independent people, an application can cost several months' (an example of s'!) salary, depending on the job. IDK, maybe I'm projecting my own frugality onto others....
 
I would rather not go D.O, Iv'e started intensively studying for the July 12th MCAT. If I can score 4-5 points better, what do you think my M.D outlook would be for this year?

You really only get 2 chances to apply to med school if you want to go MD, my advice is don't waste one of them with an MCAT that is not sufficient for admission. Otherwise you have a strong app, but rushing to retake the test only to screw it up will only make it worse. I don't honestly think DO is the way to go for you; that would be a little premature at this point. But you need to retake the MCAT and take it seriously, which means studying until your timed practice tests are showing at least 10s in each section. I think that's within reach for you but probably not by July 12th. I would say study this summer and fix your test results even if that means not taking it til aug or sept, then gear up to apply next year and use the time to further strengthen your app. I know you don't want to wait to apply for another year but that's the situation this 5 verbal has got you stuck in, don't make it worse.
 
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I'm still trying to decide whether or not I should submit my amcas this cycle with the 24. Schools are going to see all my scores next year when I reapply anyways. So why not give it a shot now? Just to my in state schools
 
I'm still trying to decide whether or not I should submit my amcas this cycle with the 24. Schools are going to see all my scores next year when I reapply anyways. So why not give it a shot now? Just to my in state schools
A strong first application is priceless. Why waste your best shot?
 
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OP, if you're all set to submit the app this cycle despite EVEYONE'S admonitions, then why bother with this thread at all? Why not just go ahead and make a total fool of yourself before the adcoms instead of wasting our time with one of the most obvious problems an applicant ever faces?

I'll say this once more with the hope it sticks: retake the MCAT and wait out another year. A 5 on verbal only tells us that you CANNOT comprehend... Your stupid stubbornness to submit your app despite everyone's objections only confirms it.

Your 24-tainted app looks very different from the guy who scored a 27-29, submitted, retook, and got 33+. Do you seriously not see that?
 
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I'm still trying to decide whether or not I should submit my amcas this cycle with the 24. Schools are going to see all my scores next year when I reapply anyways. So why not give it a shot now? Just to my in state schools

Let's walk through the very, very likely sequence of what happens if you apply this cycle, indicating a pending retake. Schools will know that you are trying again, but that 5 is going to look VERY bad to them, and a great many of them will decide to chuck your application without even waiting to see what you get on the retake. Your cycle will already be circling the drain by the time your retake is even scored, and only a fraction of your original list will ever bother to look at what your second score is. So, your best case scenario this cycle is applying widely just to have a few schools who will still be interested by the time your retake comes in, and hopefully your retake is strong enough to impress them (even though a 7-8 average on verbal is not encouraging - a 1-2 point difference between practice and test day is common, so I think you need to plan on several months of effort to really ensure the necessary growth). Even for those schools, you'll still be relatively late in the cycle, so you'll have forfeit a great advantage for underdogs like yourself. All of this leads to an application cycle strongly predisposed to failure.

Now let's look at next year, assuming you try and you fail this cycle. The second you mark down "reapplicant", schools immediately shift to a HEAVY emphasis on what you've done just this past year, looking for substantial achievement that convinces them to maybe now give you a shot. Improving your score, even all the way to a 30, is not going to be a very powerful improvement in adcoms' eyes, when assessing if you as a re-applicant are fundamentally stronger now than you were last cycle. I know it doesn't really seem to make sense - if your score now is the only thing holding you back, why wouldn't fixing it be enough for success as a reapplicant? However, they really look for strong across-the-board improvement in re-applicants, and in your case, they wouldn't see it, unless you did a lot of good stuff in addition to MCAT prep.

Therefore, the net prognosis for applying this cycle: you have a chance this cycle, but it's not a good one at all, and it depends on luck as much as timing and effort at this point. A failed cycle forces you to try again as a re-applicant, at which point you will no longer be hamstrung only by your verbal score - you will now have to contend with the re-applicant stigma, which will require more extensive work on your application to overcome.

The heavily recommended alternative in this thread is to forgo this cycle, and apply for the first time next one. Obviously you have no chance of starting school next fall if you don't apply, but as we are saying, you have only a remote chance of success even if you DO apply, so it's not that much of a concession. Far more importantly, however, next cycle you can make your first, best attempt at acceptance by submitting the day AMCAS opens, with a much improved score and no reapplicant stigma. A true recipe for success.

So it's your decision, and it's one that only you can make. Is a small chance of starting next fall worth the heavy risk of introducing another obstacle to acceptance in future attempts? Or is it better to focus on only one application cycle, with ample time to make it the absolute best it can be?
 
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Thank you for the advice. I will be retaking once my scores become consistent.
Excellent choice. See, we really only want you to do well and not waste your time and money. You have a great app otherwise, so why waste it?
 
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