24 month vs 18 month vs 12 month preclinical

[907914]

Out of curiosity, when you’re comparing the three lengths of pre-clinical education, is the volume per unit time really all that much different? My only basis for asking this question is the 2 MED student panels I have attended (1 18 month and 1 24 month) there didn’t seem to be a difference in their overall stress levels and they both expressed that “the amount of material is manageable.” So I am curious, what are the differences in these systems as far as the education is concerned? I know shorter preclinical means more time for research, ECs, additional rotations etc. but as far as ‘free time’, stress, and board prep, how does it vary? Like, do one year preclinical focus only on high yield, or do they just go through it twice as fast?

TL;DR As far as the fixation part goes, which system would you prefer and why?

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[787593]

My school has 2 year preclinical. Idk how other schools manage to teach the material in less time but n=1

The quality of the education is more important than the timeframe.

 

[lalalallala]

Programs say that they all teach the same amount but I do not think it would be possible to actually teach the material at 2x the speed of the 24 month programs. That being said perhaps the 1 yr programs have more required activities - like more afternoons of anatomy- whereas the one 24 month school that I went to only had activities from 8am to noon to give their students study time so I could see a 18 month of 12 month school putting in more afternoon activities.

Personally, I was hoping for and will be attending a 18 month school. 12 months seems too rushed for me and a lot of them don't get a summer. Also, I don't like how some of the 12 month schools seem to emphasis doing things other than seeing patients with the extra time. For example - I know at Duke that many students go get another degree with the extra year they gain by only having 1 yr preclinical. Others do research for a year. Personally I am trying to be a clinician so i want my time to be spent either in preclinical or in the hospital seeing patients. With the 18 month preclinical you get an extra 6 months on the back end to do away rotations to help with residency applications and/or to do research. Students I met at 18 month school seemed to really like it and appreciate that extra 6 months. Just my 2 cents

 

[meronebib]

I think some information is cut in condensed curricula. It doesn’t affect board preparation for the most part. Board preparation, from my understanding, is more from self-studying. There is a clear advantage for taking Step 1 after rotations though (if we’re talking about getting a higher score). Condensed curricula schools usually have Step 1 after rotations.

 

[daw05]

I think 1 year is a bit too much of a cut. There's a reasonable amount of fluff in any curricula so that cutting to 18 months is probably not that hard without losing content or making the days extra long.
Two thoughts that I received when looking at schools this past year:

-Michigan does 1 year preclinical, and their position is that the 2 year program is really about 2x 9-10 month long years. They condense to 1 year without a summer, so the first year is really 13 months. They view it as cutting 5-7 months of fluff. I think that the condensed nature does stress out the students though.

-Someone at another school (or maybe I read it on these boards, now that I'm thinking about it) stressed that the importance of two years is developing the student as a professional. As a nontrad, this line of reasoning struck home with me. I've met a ton of people coming straight out of college (me included) who needed time to develop into a professional, and it isn't done through on the job training. When you begin residency isn't the time. I know everyone thinks they are the exception coming out of undergrad - they aren't.

I think an 18 month or 2 year program is probably best for both these reasons.

 

[Gilakend]

That being said perhaps the 1 yr programs have more required activities

12 months seems too rushed for me and a lot of them don't get a summer.

-Michigan does 1 year preclinical, and their position is that the 2 year program is really about 2x 9-10 month long years. They condense to 1 year without a summer, so the first year is really 13 months. They view it as cutting 5-7 months of fluff. I think that the condensed nature does stress out the students though.

I can only comment on these points, but I can say that at Michigan's 1 year curriculum you only have required activities 2/3 days a week (and never any on Monday). And that Michigan does get a 6 week summer break after M1 and two 1-week long spring breaks during the school year. This is in addition to a couple weeks for Christmas, a week for Thanksgiving, and a lot of four day weekends.

Also in my opinion, they didn't seem super stressed (they were the chillest school I interviewed at), the students I talked to a lot of students went out every week/tailgated (they have a med student tailgate every week)/family time. Most students said they were surprised with how much time they had to pursue research, clubs, hobbies, etc. M2 (core rotations) is considered the stressful year at Michigan.
Obviously YMMV, just adding in my perspective.

I was hoping for the 1 year curriculum as I'll have pre-clinical, my core rotations, and shelf exams in before step 1. I also like how much independent study time there is specifically in Michigan's curriculum, which I feel will allow me to study how I like (I was a anki fiend in UG and plan to use Zanki). I also love the extra time I'll get to explore specialties. However, I think I also could've been happy with 1.5 year.

Also, there aren't very many 1 year schools. I think only Michigan, Harvard, Duke, and Vandy, but I could be wrong on this.

 

[SDunkey]

Agreeing with the general consensus here. 18 month actually sounds ideal, and if not, then the usual 24. 12 just seems too rushed in my opinion.

 

[differentiating]

I can’t imagine learning enough medicine in just a year before wards. I have a hard time evaluating 18 month curricula as my only exposure has been comparing my 2year to the class below me on 18 months, and that’s confounded by the fact that they were the first year of a new curriculum. They definitely knew less than we did when they hit the wards, but it’s possible that that gap is narrower in schools that have gone 1.5 years preclinical for longer. I’m personally really happy I had 2 years, but I’d think 1.5 should be sufficient if done well.

 

[907914]

I can only comment on these points, but I can say that at Michigan's 1 year curriculum you only have required activities 2/3 days a week (and never any on Monday). And that Michigan does get a 6 week summer break after M1 and two 1-week long spring breaks during the school year. This is in addition to a couple weeks for Christmas, a week for Thanksgiving, and a lot of four day weekends.

Also in my opinion, they didn't seem super stressed (they were the chillest school I interviewed at), the students I talked to a lot of students went out every week/tailgated (they have a med student tailgate every week)/family time. Most students said they were surprised with how much time they had to pursue research, clubs, hobbies, etc. M2 (core rotations) is considered the stressful year at Michigan.
Obviously YMMV, just adding in my perspective.

I was hoping for the 1 year curriculum as I'll have pre-clinical, my core rotations, and shelf exams in before step 1. I also like how much independent study time there is specifically in Michigan's curriculum, which I feel will allow me to study how I like (I was a anki fiend in UG and plan to use Zanki). I also love the extra time I'll get to explore specialties. However, I think I also could've been happy with 1.5 year.

Also, there aren't very many 1 year schools. I think only Michigan, Harvard, Duke, and Vandy, but I could be wrong on this.

I will be applying to all of those except Vandy, so we will see how it goes lol

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I will be attending a school with an 18-month (well, I guess it's really 16 months). The summer break is only a couple of weeks, otherwise it's just straight through (excluding a few sporadic breaks throughout, e.g., winter break). I was looking for a place like that so I could get onto the wards earlier. We'll see how I do, but the curriculum has been like that and they seem to do pretty well.

 

[907914]

I know everyone thinks they are the exception coming out of undergrad - they aren't.

I get the sentiment for the vast majority of traditional (and even many non-traditional) students, but I feel like this is an over generalization. A Non-trad who was an officer/non-commissioned officer in the military or a student who was a manager at a Peace Corps job site or who was the a charge nurse etc. likely does not need the same level of professional development as you are applying to all students.

*note I have meant some really immature NCOs and nurses in my day, so my statement is not a blanket statement either*

Overall though, naivety to the real world does seem like it would be a big issue for many an applicant.