MD & DO 3.42 GPA, 33 MCAT, strong ECs, athlete. School list/chances?

[MTHFR]

Hey, SDN.

I'd like to know what my chances are given my GPA and ECs, primarily, and which schools I should apply to (see the list below).

Background: Graduated in May, 2011. MN resident. Private undergrad. White male. I didn't know I wanted to be a doctor until after I graduated. I was 90% sure I wanted to be a PA, but after scribing for a month and spending every subsequent waking minute on Medscape, UpToDate, looking over medical school lectures, etc. when not scribing, I changed my mind.

cGPA: 3.43 (B.S. Biology). sGPA: 3.2. This includes the four college-in-the-schools courses taken in high school.

ECs:
- 3-year starter for division III college football team (1 year all-conference; senior year captain).
- 14 months as an emergency room medical scribe; 7 months training (hand-selected by MDs to train in after roughly 6 months).
- 6 months as a PCA for a male quadriplegic.
- 16+ months (still employed here: 40 hrs/week) as a surgical/hospital technician in charge of assisting with placement, maintenance, and troubleshooting of arterial/venous/PA lines, temporary pacemakers, intra-aortic balloon pumps and temporary left ventricular assist devices (certified "specialist"), performing point-of-care lab testing, as well as newer techniques involving platelet-rich plasma and bone-marrow aspirate (stem cell) injections, autologous cell salvage (takes blood lost intraoperatively, spins it down, and returns RBCs), assistance with regional nerve blocks, and basically anything an anesthesiologist, surgeon, CRNA, nurse, etc., needs help with.
- 7+ months (still employed here: 20 hrs/week; going full-time here soon) as a data coordinator doing cardiac research on acute coronary syndromes.
- Several summers volunteering at a therapeutic riding center, but this trailed off during college, ~20 hours volunteering at a children's hospital, ~10 hours mentoring inner city youth (how should I put this in my app: all as one or separate?)
- Typical shadowing experiences with primary care doc, but don't feel much more is needed given the on-the-job shadowing I've pretty much done as a scribe and with current job.

School list based on Medical School selector spreadsheet, MSAR, and LizzyM score (in no particular order).
Dartmouth (hail mary)
Ohio State (hail mary)
Drexel
Eastern Virginia
George Washington
Georgetown
Hofstra
Loyola
MC Wisconsin
NYMC
Rush
Saint Louis
Temple
Commonwealth
Toledo
Brown
Tulane
USF
Arizona - Tucson
Arizona - Phoenix (no state ties for either, so drop?)
Cincinnati
Miami
Minnesota (Twin Cities & Duluth)
UNC
Utah (6 LORs?! Might drop, though would love to live out there).
Vermont
VCU
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Des Moines (D.O.)

If you know any MD schools I should drop or add, let me know. I'm aiming for 20-25 schools tops. Spray and pray, baby 🙂

**Should I also apply to Master's programs to hedge my bet (I'm 24 on 25), or take several advanced science courses while I'm applying to try to bump both sGPA and cGPA up?**

Thanks for all the help in advance!

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[WillburCobb]

Hey, SDN.

I'd like to know what my chances are given my GPA and ECs, primarily, and which schools I should apply to (see the list below).

Background: Graduated in May, 2011. MN resident. Private undergrad. White male. I didn't know I wanted to be a doctor until after I graduated. I was 90% sure I wanted to be a PA, but after scribing for a month and spending every subsequent waking minute on Medscape, UpToDate, looking over medical school lectures, etc. when not scribing, I changed my mind.

cGPA: 3.42 (B.S. Biology). This is marginally higher when including the four college-in-the-schools courses taken in high school.

ECs:
- 3-year starter for division III college football team (1 year all-conference; senior year captain).
- 14 months as an emergency room medical scribe; 7 months training (hand-selected by MDs to train in after roughly 6 months).
- 6 months as a PCA for a male quadriplegic.
- 16+ months (still employed here: 40 hrs/week) as a surgical/hospital technician in charge of assisting with placement, maintenance, and troubleshooting of arterial/venous/PA lines, temporary pacemakers, intra-aortic balloon pumps and temporary left ventricular assist devices (certified "specialist"), performing point-of-care lab testing, as well as newer techniques involving platelet-rich plasma and bone-marrow aspirate (stem cell) injections, autologous cell salvage (takes blood lost intraoperatively, spins it down, and returns RBCs), assistance with regional nerve blocks, and basically anything an anesthesiologist, surgeon, CRNA, nurse, etc., needs help with.
- 7+ months (still employed here: 20 hrs/week; going full-time here soon) as a data coordinator doing cardiac research on acute coronary syndromes.
- Several summers volunteering at a therapeutic riding center, but this trailed off during college, ~20 hours volunteering at a children's hospital, ~10 hours mentoring inner city youth (how should I put this in my app: all as one or separate?)
- Typical shadowing experiences with primary care doc, but don't feel much more is needed given the on-the-job shadowing I've pretty much done as a scribe and with current job.

School list based on Medical School selector spreadsheet and LizzyM score (just generally listed in order of tier and LizzyM score).
1. Vanderbilt
2. Dartmouth
3. Stanford
4. Virginia
5. U of Miami
6. U of Iowa
7. U of Minnesota
8. Ohio State
9. U of Wisconsin
10. Georgetown
11. Rosalind Franklin
12. Oregon Health and Sciences (OHSU)
13. Vermont
14. MC Wisconsin
15. Loyola
16. Nevada
17. George Washington
18. Rush
19. Louisville
20. NYMC
21. VCU
22. Michigan State
23. Virginia Tech
24. Wake Forest

Spray and pray, baby 🙂

I know it says DO and MD, but I don't know enough about the DO schools. If you know any MD schools I should drop, add, and any DO schools I should add, let me know.

Thanks for all the help in advance!

Vandy, Stanford, George Washington, and Dartmouth are all HUGE reaches. OSHU has a pretty hard cut-off of 3.6+ 32+ for OOS applicants so I'd cut that. I'd suggest adding EVMS, VCU, and Tulane. For DO consider DMU, KCUMB, KCOM, CCOM, and PCOM. The public DO schools (e.g., Michigan, Ohio, etc.) are also solid, but have very high OOS tuition, however there are ways around this (scholarships, agreeing to practice in the area for x number of years, etc.). For newer DO schools I've heard good things about Marian but don't know much about it.

Edit - With solid LORs, PS, and secondary I think you'll have a reasonable shot at U of M. FWIW I had near identical stats and received an II as an OOS applicant last cycle.

 

[Goro]

I think you'll be better off sticking to schools where your GPA is closer to the mean, but 4 point off (like at Dartmouth). MSAR Online is your friend.


Aim for your state school (if any), all new MD schools and all low tier MD schools. A 3.42 is scraping the bottom of competitiveness.

You're also fine for any DO program, including mine. Just do your homework and you'll be fine.

 

[MTHFR]

Vandy, Stanford, George Washington, and Dartmouth are all HUGE reaches. OSHU has a pretty hard cut-off of 3.6+ 32+ for OOS applicants so I'd cut that. I'd suggest adding EVMS, VCU, and Tulane. For DO consider DMU, KCUMB, KCOM, CCOM, and PCOM. The public DO schools (e.g., Michigan, Ohio, etc.) are also solid, but have very high OOS tuition, however there are ways around this (scholarships, agreeing to practice in the area for x number of years, etc.). For newer DO schools I've heard good things about Marian but don't know much about it.

Edit - With solid LORs, PS, and secondary I think you'll have a reasonable shot at U of M. FWIW I had near identical stats and received an II as an OOS applicant last cycle.

I know Vanderbilt, Stanford, and Dartmouth are absolute hail mary's, but I wanted to mix in 1-2 of those (are you sure George Washington is a reach? 27-35 MCAT/3.48-3.93 GPA according to MSAR). Ohio State and Virginia are also reaches, and to be honest with myself, I feel like they're all a little bit of a reach. I just need one to bite 🙂.

I could throw in Mayo as my "hail mary" school since it's in-state at least. Thank you for the DO schools!

 

[MTHFR]

I think you'll be better off sticking to schools where your GPA is closer to the mean, but 4 point off (like at Dartmouth). MSAR Online is your friend.


Aim for your state school (if any), all new MD schools and all low tier MD schools. A 3.42 is scraping the bottom of competitiveness.

You're also fine for any DO program, including mine. Just do your homework and you'll be fine.

Word. I know this is the deficiency in my app. Unfortunately, there's not a lot I can do about it at this point without going to a post-bacc/Master's program, which I'm not particularly interested in.

Strategy-wise, I've been told to throw in 1-2 "reach" schools, apply to schools mostly within your range, and a few "safer" schools. Is this what you would recommend?

 

[WillburCobb]

I know Vanderbilt, Stanford, and Dartmouth are absolute hail mary's, but I wanted to mix in 1-2 of those (are you sure George Washington is a reach? 27-35 MCAT/3.48-3.93 GPA according to MSAR). Ohio State and Virginia are also reaches, and to be honest with myself, I feel like they're all a little bit of a reach. I just need one to bite 🙂.

I could throw in Mayo as my "hail mary" school since it's in-state at least. Thank you for the DO schools!

My bad I was thinking of Washington University.

 

[Goro]

Yes. But what is the right reach? "Reach" should not merely be "I'd LOVE to go there!" As an example, Vanderbilt would not be a reach, it would be impossible. Dartmouth or Emory might be reaches. If you're at the, say, 11th percentile of the GPA for a school, and four points below their median score, then that's a reach. You're in striking distance.

But I recommend going with the realistic schools. Actually, the true safety schools are DO schools. We're OK with that. Everybody uses Drexel or GWU as their safety school, but it's not an automatic...A 3.42 GPA will net you an II at CCOM or PCOM.

Strategy-wise, I've been told to throw in 1-2 "reach" schools, apply to schools mostly within your range, and a few "safer" schools. Is this what you would recommend?

 

[MTHFR]

Good point, Goro. Vanderbilt is out as I've heard it really is nearly impossible to get into, especially with my stats. Regarding OHSU and their cut-off, I just went onto MDapplicants.com and saw several OOS applicants accepted off waitlists with similar stats as mine. I'm willing to throw my hat in the ring here, even if there is only an outside chance at acceptance.

 

[MTHFR]

Completely re-did list of schools. Please give your $0.02 🙂

 

[ridethecliche]

I think you need to ask you what's worth more to you. Going through a dud cycle or spending a year or two doing a bunch of coursework and bumping up your grades where you'll be in much better shape. It's the ONLY thing that's really lacking in your application . If you can show a year or two of courses with strong grades, that could push your application over the edge. With all the excellent ex-currics you have, why not take the time to do that?

How long have you been out of school? How many more cycles is your mcat valid for?

This is all obviously moot if you're okay with going to a DO school, which you're going to be a great candidate for but you still have none on your list.

 

[lmn]

I would probably consider removing the DC schools and possible AZ for schools with better odds

 

[BobGadha]

Careful with the OOS-unfriendly schools and those that give preference to BS/MD candidates!

 

[MTHFR]

Careful with the OOS-unfriendly schools and those that give preference to BS/MD candidates!

You're referring to the AZ schools regarding OOS-unfriendliness, right?

 

[MTHFR]

I think you need to ask you what's worth more to you. Going through a dud cycle or spending a year or two doing a bunch of coursework and bumping up your grades where you'll be in much better shape. It's the ONLY thing that's really lacking in your application . If you can show a year or two of courses with strong grades, that could push your application over the edge. With all the excellent ex-currics you have, why not take the time to do that?

How long have you been out of school? How many more cycles is your mcat valid for?

This is all obviously moot if you're okay with going to a DO school, which you're going to be a great candidate for but you still have none on your list.

Thanks for the help. I've been out of school for three years, and my MCAT is good for one more cycle for sure, two possibly (took in July, 2013). I am planning on taking between 3-5 courses over this next cycle on top of a full-time job and volunteering at a free health clinic taking vitals, etc. Would this suffice? Also, I do have one D.O. school on the bottom of the list (Des Moines). Realistically, that's probably the only one I'd consider going to as it's close and has a good reputation.

 

[ridethecliche]

You have really good experiences. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not taking more science classes. Your cGPA isn't hugely problematic, but your sGPA is lower which is an issue. I would look at the AAMC charts to show your likelihood of getting an acceptance based on your sGPA and MCAT. It might help that you've been out of school for a bit and have great work experience, but while that can help your application it really won't 'fix' your grades so to speak.

Good luck.

 

[MTHFR]

You have really good experiences. I think you're doing yourself a disservice by not taking more science classes. Your cGPA isn't hugely problematic, but your sGPA is lower which is an issue. I would look at the AAMC charts to show your likelihood of getting an acceptance based on your sGPA and MCAT. It might help that you've been out of school for a bit and have great work experience, but while that can help your application it really won't 'fix' your grades so to speak.

Good luck.

Right. I completely agree. However, how many more science classes would you recommend? More than 3-5? I've taken a lot of upper division biology classes, so I'm afraid some would be retakes (like genetics). Would like to learn Spanish, but the sGPA should take precedent.

 

[BobGadha]

You're referring to the AZ schools regarding OOS-unfriendliness, right?

Yeup! Also, UNC has a rather strong in-state preference. A large chunk of Brown's matriculated students are BS/MD candidates.

 

[ridethecliche]

Right. I completely agree. However, how many more science classes would you recommend? More than 3-5? I've taken a lot of upper division biology classes, so I'm afraid some would be retakes (like genetics). Would like to learn Spanish, but the sGPA should take precedent.

I'm honestly not sure. Remember that for MD schools retaking a course earns you the average grade while taking a new course gives you a new data point entirely. You should probably calculate how you can get your sGPA to atleast a 3.4. If you can do really well in 2-4 sets of classes on top of your stacked schedule, I would try that. If you have the money then you might considering applying this year after all.

I would also caution against taking too many classes at once and not doing well. You realistically need to get A's in all these classes to make it worth your while. Taking more than 2 a 'semester' would be a mistake unless you can plan things out and succeed.

 

[MTHFR]

I'm honestly not sure. Remember that for MD schools retaking a course earns you the average grade while taking a new course gives you a new data point entirely. You should probably calculate how you can get your sGPA to atleast a 3.4. If you can do really well in 2-4 sets of classes on top of your stacked schedule, I would try that. If you have the money then you might considering applying this year after all.

I would also caution against taking too many classes at once and not doing well. You realistically need to get A's in all these classes to make it worth your while. Taking more than 2 a 'semester' would be a mistake unless you can plan things out and succeed.

Did the math and I need 5 classes in the sciences just to raise my cGPA up to a 3.5 and sGPA to a 3.4. I took a class while working 60 hours/week. I believe I could handle one class for sure at 40/week, likely 2. Extremely tentative plan as of now is to apply (v. broadly) and take two science classes in the fall, two in the spring, and possibly another two next summer (dependent on this cycle). I understand the importance of ensuring I get an "A" in all of the classes. Thanks for all the input again, ridethecliche. You've been a big help.

 

[ridethecliche]

No problem! Good luck! I hope you don't have to reapply!

(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
(Just enough I didn't put enough in my statements earlier!)