3.85GPA, 35Q MCAT etc..... and NOTHING

[simsima]

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Im completely lost (including as to whether this is in the right forum/thread or not) and comments are appreciated:

I am a Canadian citizen/student with:
3.85 CGPA
3.73 Science GPA
-3 years of research experience in 3 laboratories, 2 of which are big name labs
-amazing reference letters from big name publishing profs
-students government executive for 3 years
-1000's of (non clinical) volunteer hours
-an (in press) publication in a Canadian Medical Journal
-2 years of working with EEG, EMG, and ECG, and a few months of fNIRS (a different kind of fMRI) in a research setting
-3 research ethics certificates
-etc... the rest is less important but there IS much more

The downside:
-I'm taking 2.5 of the prereqs this year
-my publication wasnt ready for my canadian applications and had to be submitted as an addendum to my US applications
-I applied to the US around the end of sept-mid october
-I have a weird 4th year bc I actually completed all my degree requirements in 3 years (summer school), and the only reason I'm back in school is to do those 2.5 prereqs (1 eng, 1phys, 0.5 orgo). Some schools might not understand that and just think slacking this year.

I applied to 10 Canadian schools and 20 US schools.... and i got NOTHING, not even an interview... anywhere! and that includes the 2nd and 3rd tier US schools I applied to... I'm still waiting on Wayne State though. I feel a bit cheated but I'm not resentful, I guess there were enough people better than me to interview at all 30 schools🙁

So far I've always scoffed at Caribbean schools for the same reason most people do, but now it feels like its my only choice. At the same time i feel like i should/could do "better" (please dont take offence! you know what I mean). I'm trying to convince my self that a Caribbean school is ok, but honestly, I feel weird about going to a medical school where im one of the top applicants, I mean it would be good for the ego, but all I hear about is how hard it is to come back and all the hoops you have to jump through, and I don't feel I should have to face that b/c I feel like I've earned a shot at Canada/US... I went to a very challenging school, took a challenging program, hard courses, lots of research and volunteer all at the same time, and a pretty good grade and MCAT at the end of it all.

To me these are the main issues:
-time, i really need to finish ASAP
-returning to Canada
-being a competitive residency applicant. Im not looking for IM or Family

What do you think? Is this normal? Should I go to the Caribbean?...Just telling me something, anything :'(

 

[nlax30]

I see all your volunteer time has been "non-clinical", besides the MCAT, is there anything in your overall app that suggests you are truly interested in medicine/medical school and have at least some knowledge of what the profession is like?

Are you sure your letters were strong?
Have you gone over your personal statement or application in general with anyone else such as a pre-med advisor or someone in the medical field?
Do you have any clinical experience? Shadowing, volunteering, etc....
Have you looked at DO schools? (Not sure how the Canadian citizen part plays in though....)

 

[simsima]

Well I do volunteer in a clinical-research setting (the research unit of a mental hospital), but thats my newest position.

As far as I can tell my statement was as good as it could get, it was reviewed a gazillion time between two med school students, another premed who got in this year and 2 english majors

I have an (in press) publication in a medical journal in Canada, I feel that would show that I'm interested in med, aside from my statement

Yes I am VERY sure my letters were strong, especially from the big name publishing profs.

No I haven't looked into DO. I researched it a while back and it turned me off.

 

[Gavanshir]

Im completely lost (including as to whether this is in the right forum/thread or not) and comments are appreciated:

I am a Canadian citizen/student with:
3.85 CGPA
3.73 Science GPA
-3 years of research experience in 3 laboratories, 2 of which are big name labs
-amazing reference letters from big name publishing profs
-students government executive for 3 years
-1000's of (non clinical) volunteer hours
-an (in press) publication in a Canadian Medical Journal
-2 years of working with EEG, EMG, and ECG, and a few months of fNIRS (a different kind of fMRI) in a research setting
-3 research ethics certificates
-etc... the rest is less important but there IS much more

The downside:
-I'm taking 2.5 of the prereqs this year
-my publication wasnt ready for my canadian applications and had to be submitted as an addendum to my US applications
-I applied to the US around the end of sept-mid october
-I have a weird 4th year bc I actually completed all my degree requirements in 3 years (summer school), and the only reason I'm back in school is to do those 2.5 prereqs (1 eng, 1phys, 0.5 orgo). Some schools might not understand that and just think slacking this year.

I applied to 10 Canadian schools and 20 US schools.... and i got NOTHING, not even an interview... anywhere! and that includes the 2nd and 3rd tier US schools I applied to... I'm still waiting on Wayne State though. I feel a bit cheated but I'm not resentful, I guess there were enough people better than me to interview at all 30 schools🙁

So far I've always scoffed at Caribbean schools for the same reason most people do, but now it feels like its my only choice. At the same time i feel like i should/could do "better" (please dont take offence! you know what I mean). I'm trying to convince my self that a Caribbean school is ok, but honestly, I feel weird about going to a medical school where im one of the top applicants, I mean it would be good for the ego, but all I hear about is how hard it is to come back and all the hoops you have to jump through, and I don't feel I should have to face that b/c I feel like I've earned a shot at Canada/US... I went to a very challenging school, took a challenging program, hard courses, lots of research and volunteer all at the same time, and a pretty good grade and MCAT at the end of it all.

To me these are the main issues:
-time, i really need to finish ASAP
-returning to Canada
-being a competitive residency applicant. Im not looking for IM or Family

What do you think? Is this normal? Should I go to the Caribbean?...Just telling me something, anything :'(

You applied waaaay too late for US schools. In fact, had you searched SDN, anyone would have told you that you are throwing your money away by applying in September. Canadian schools are competitive so it's not a surprise that candidates with your stats don't get interviewed although this does depend on your province. The Q on your MCAT might also be a factor in Canada.

I would recommend doing an extra year of research or something else that you like and will make you competitive and try again. If you do apply to the US again, you should aim to have your entire application complete by early to mid July, latest August.

 

[simsima]

Do you think going to the caribbean is a bad idea for me?

 

[Gavanshir]

Do you think going to the caribbean is a bad idea for me?

No, but staying in Canada or the States is a much better idea in terms of making your life easier when it comes time to applying to residencies. You'll have broader options and are more likely to match into your specialty/program/location of choice. Not to mention the money that you'll be saving by staying at home.

I'm studying in the Caribbean now and it's great but in retrospect I should have done more- even if it meant redoing my undergrad or getting a graduate degree and tried again before coming down.

 

[uclakid]

Do you think going to the caribbean is a bad idea for me?

go to sgu or ross

 

[NotAProgDirector]

I think this is really poor advice. With those stats, assuming there isn't some other problem in your app, you should get in somewhere in the US. Being a US grad is a huge advantage. The match is going to get tighter over the next few years. One year is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Get your prereqs done, get your app together, apply on time with a complete app. if you don't get in again, then the carib is a reasonable option.

 

[simsima]

I feel like your right aprog.... but if i end up in the carib anyways... why not save a year. I already feel like ive waisted a year bc i finished my degree in 3 instead of 4 years

 

[NOsquid]

Are you fooking kidding me?? Apply on time next year, you're a fool if you go to the Caribbean without trying again.

I'm not trying to be a dick but you need a kick in the ***** 🙂 this is a tough career, don't expect to get what you want right away, especially if you're not 100% on top of things.

 

[Unty]

I think this is really poor advice. With those stats, assuming there isn't some other problem in your app, you should get in somewhere in the US. Being a US grad is a huge advantage. The match is going to get tighter over the next few years. One year is nothing in the grand scheme of things. Get your prereqs done, get your app together, apply on time with a complete app. if you don't get in again, then the carib is a reasonable option.

All I read in your post are your numbers and assuming there are no issues with your application I would say reapply and try to get into a US school. (I am a Caribb graduate and currently a resident btw). I agree with a progDirectors statement.

 

[RussianJoo]

as a carib grad and current resident I say reapply, and reapply early. If you're considering living in the US after residency apply to a few DO schools as well. Going to a US/canadian school will make things infinately easier for you when the time comes to match into a residency.

 

[simsima]

No there isnt anything else wrong with my app, if anything theres more goos stuff. So the response seems pretty unanimous... try again next year, apply early, and get some extra work done this year in the meantime (clinical volunteering, research, another publication etc...)?

 

[schroon]

simsima - -

I recommend that you reapply to the Canadian and US schools next application cycle but also apply to the Irish schools that offer 4 year programs (The Royal College of Surgeons, UDublin, UCork & UGalaway) through the Atlantic Bridge Program and also apply to the better Carrib schools.

Don't give up the dream.

Good luck.
.

 

[simsima]

are there the same barriers/complications with Irish/Oz schools?

 

[PteFabulous]

are there the same barriers/complications with Irish/Oz schools?

Yes there are barriers with getting back to Canada with Irish/oz schools.

Try again next cycle, apply to more US schools, also apply to DO schools.You might also want to try shadowing a doctor so you actually get some experience in the medical field.

 

[schroon]

simsima - -

The advantage which some believe that the Irish
med schools offer is the tie in to some of the most
prestigious US medical schools (UPenn, Tufts,
Harvard, et al.) for electives. Some believe that
the tie in for electives at US schools may be a
benefit for securing a more desireable residency.

Note that the Irish schools are more expensive
than most US, Canadian or Carrib schools.

Please also note that I recently read that The
University of Edinburgh (or like long established
University in Scotland) is introducing a 4 year
program aimed at North American students.

 

[SFO-IST]

if you don't have a copy of the letter of recommendations that you are summating, perhaps you may want to consider that they contain red flags or are not written in the "exuberant phrase" that is the norm. additionally, you may want to have someone who doesn't know you, has very limited time, and has read over 500 personal statements to take a look at your personal statement.

take another year to brush up on your volunteer experience. is possible, make sure you have solid non-research and clinical stuff in there.

best of luck.

 

[medisforme]

Im completely lost (including as to whether this is in the right forum/thread or not) and comments are appreciated:

I am a Canadian citizen/student with:
3.85 CGPA
3.73 Science GPA
-3 years of research experience in 3 laboratories, 2 of which are big name labs
-amazing reference letters from big name publishing profs
-students government executive for 3 years
-1000's of (non clinical) volunteer hours
-an (in press) publication in a Canadian Medical Journal
-2 years of working with EEG, EMG, and ECG, and a few months of fNIRS (a different kind of fMRI) in a research setting
-3 research ethics certificates
-etc... the rest is less important but there IS much more

The downside:
-I'm taking 2.5 of the prereqs this year
-my publication wasnt ready for my canadian applications and had to be submitted as an addendum to my US applications
-I applied to the US around the end of sept-mid october
-I have a weird 4th year bc I actually completed all my degree requirements in 3 years (summer school), and the only reason I'm back in school is to do those 2.5 prereqs (1 eng, 1phys, 0.5 orgo). Some schools might not understand that and just think slacking this year.

I applied to 10 Canadian schools and 20 US schools.... and i got NOTHING, not even an interview... anywhere! and that includes the 2nd and 3rd tier US schools I applied to... I'm still waiting on Wayne State though. I feel a bit cheated but I'm not resentful, I guess there were enough people better than me to interview at all 30 schools🙁

So far I've always scoffed at Caribbean schools for the same reason most people do, but now it feels like its my only choice. At the same time i feel like i should/could do "better" (please dont take offence! you know what I mean). I'm trying to convince my self that a Caribbean school is ok, but honestly, I feel weird about going to a medical school where im one of the top applicants, I mean it would be good for the ego, but all I hear about is how hard it is to come back and all the hoops you have to jump through, and I don't feel I should have to face that b/c I feel like I've earned a shot at Canada/US... I went to a very challenging school, took a challenging program, hard courses, lots of research and volunteer all at the same time, and a pretty good grade and MCAT at the end of it all.

To me these are the main issues:
-time, i really need to finish ASAP
-returning to Canada
-being a competitive residency applicant. Im not looking for IM or Family

What do you think? Is this normal? Should I go to the Caribbean?...Just telling me something, anything :'(

Which province are you from? If it is anywhere besides Ontario, I have a hard time believing your post. If you are from Ontario, that sucks, it is the only province that doesn't give preference to in-province med school applicants. Also, is you MCAT score balanced? Getting a low VR mark (ie. below 9) can be a deal breaker at several Canadian med schools.

 

[rayjay]

Which province are you from? If it is anywhere besides Ontario, I have a hard time believing your post. If you are from Ontario, that sucks, it is the only province that doesn't give preference to in-province med school applicants. Also, is you MCAT score balanced? Getting a low VR mark (ie. below 9) can be a deal breaker at several Canadian med schools.

If you're from AB/BC I'd have a very hard time believing you got NOTHING...assuming of course as people have mentioned, that you didn't have some other kind of flag in your application. Also, unless you personally read the reference letters, I wouldn't bank on them too much. I thought I would get a stellar reference letter score from the people I asked because they knew me well, had a great relationship, etc. and I got a 5/10 for my reference letter score after getting rejected. Don't assume that your "big name publishing profs" are throwing out great references. They've seen 100 students like you before, and will see 100 more before they retire.

Not trying to put you down, but if what you're saying is true, then there had to be SOMETHING on your application that rubbed someone the wrong way. The one thing out of your control is your references, that would be the first place I started since clearly your academics are not the issue.

 

[dragonfly99]

Definitely do not go to the Caribbean in your situation, until you've tried at least one more time. I would say two more times if needed.
My opinion is that many U.S. schools would not even interview someone who has not completed all the prerequisites. They may not have even gotten to reviewing the rest of your file. Also, some U.S. schools don't like the younger applicants so much, choosing to make you wait/"mature" another year, whatever that means. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just that it is what it is. I also think that a lot of U.S. schools would not interview someone without clearly stated/documented clinical volunteer experience; it's just something that is expected for all applicants.
Applying in September or even August is late for U.S. schools, and would greatly decrease your chances for an interview, even if you were/are otherwise competitive.
You seem a little bit cocky, so that might have affected things in some way,though less likely since you didn't even get to the interview stage.

 

[simsima]

Just to answer some of the points that were brought up. YES Im from ontario... I guess thats a bad thing. My MCAT was B-13, P-12, V-10, Q. My statement was read and edited many many times by many different people (pre-meds, meds, and english majors). And I know for certain that my reference letters were excellent... atleast 4/5 of them

 

[medisforme]

Just to answer some of the points that were brought up. YES Im from ontario... I guess thats a bad thing. My MCAT was B-13, P-12, V-10, Q. My statement was read and edited many many times by many different people (pre-meds, meds, and english majors). And I know for certain that my reference letters were excellent... atleast 4/5 of them

Well you are not alone, I know at least one applicant who couldn't even get an interview at UofT with a 3.97 OMSAS gpa, that is totally crazy! I think you are a good example of how ridiculously competitve Canadian medical schools are, especially re: gpa. If you moved to Alberta for 12 months you would be granted in province status and I guarantee with those stats (barring any flag on your application) you would get an interview at one of the two schools there.

 

[Dillatar]

Haha. I think it is hilarious that all these people are giving you advice when they most likely didn't get into medical school with half the cred you have. Just apply way early next time and you'll be a shoe in. 👍

 

[medisforme]

Haha. I think it is hilarious that all these people are giving you advice when they most likely didn't get into medical school with half the cred you have. Just apply way early next time and you'll be a shoe in. 👍

Not sure why you think its funny. The purpose of these forums is to support and provide information to one another. Besides, the application process for Canadian med schools is not like American med schools. You guys apply at a broad range of schools and hope for interviews/acceptances at some of them. In Canada, the typical pre-med is only competitive at 1-2 schools (except for the keeners with ridiculous stats) and applies to these schools year after year until they give up or get accepted.

I interviewed for the third time this year (and yes, with lower stats than the poster though not by much) and feel good about how everything has went, hoping this year will be the acceptance. However, just because people haven't been accepted in past years doesn't mean they don't know anything about the admissions process or how it works for various schools.

 

[ButImLETired]

Here's what I think.

1) contact all the schools you were rejected from and ask if someone can tell you if there was a red flag in your app. At least one of the schools is bound to tell you the truth.

2) in my experience, "big name researchers" don't always write good letters. If most of your letters are from people whose lab you worked in and who don't know you super well or don't have the time to write long, personal letters, that might have really hurt you. Really think about your letters and whether at least 1 or 2 are truly about YOU.

3) get some clinical experience- stat. Working on research in a hospital or submitting to a "medical" journal does not a clinical experience make. You should be around MD's, not PhD's, and you should be working with patients. Otherwise when you do get an interview, you might get the dreaded question "so why not just get a PhD?" Research is very good, but unless you're going for MSTP, it can't be the only/main thing on your app- you need to prove that you know what a regular ol' doctor does on a normal basis, because even if you end up being an academic doc with a heavy research emphasis, you'll stil have to just see patients and talk to them occasionally. Prove that you know what that's like and you know you're willing to do that.

4) once you have done 1-3 (or at least you've started 3), apply again- and do so early. Send your personal statement to someone who knows you well- a family member, a close friend- and ask for advice on whether it's a PERSONAL statement. Do they think that it portrays who you really are and why you want to be a doctor? Sometimes people have their essays edited by like 20 people and they're all very smart academics who can tell you whether it's written well, but not whether it's really a depiction of who you are as a person. That's not good enough.

The real issue isn't that your application isn't great, or even that it's not as impressive as other people's. It might just be too vanilla, and so you never stood out in a pool of people with good grades and MCAT scores. Make sure that your app tells a story and that you are really apparent in everything you've done.

 

[Substance]

One of your references is backstabbing you.

 

[Methodnike]

How good is your french? I'm assuming you've haven't applied to Montreal, Laval or Sherbrooke.

With a bachelor degree and those stats, you are a very competitive candidate.