3.8GPA, 517MCAT, No Science PreReqs

[PettyDoc]

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So I know the vast majority of medical schools require science prereqs, however I narrowed down a list of ones that do not require science or any specific prereqs at all. I'm wondering what my chances are. I have 3.8 GPA, I haven't taken the MCAT yet, but I have spent the past year self-teaching and practicing the subjects and the MCAT exams. I take the full-length 6 hour practice MCAT offered by Kaplan every 2-3 weeks, from last year my first practice score 478. These last two months i've taken the practice test 5 times I've scoring between 517-525 (520, 517, 525, 524, 525). So assuming once I take the real MCAT which will be in January 2019 (as to give myself 6 more months of studying for it, 1.5 years total) and I score on the lower end of my practice exam average score 517, what are my chances for getting into some of these no-prereqs required medical schools when I apply next year June 1st?

I know some of you are wondering why spend so much time studying for the MCAT and not taking the prereqs instead, but the reason is because I've been living and working abroad for the past 4 years and my contract will be up June 15th next year, which is when I'll be returning the states, and doing any type of prerequisites classes here would be a waste of time and money since they probably wouldn't even transfer or be counted since they would be in a different language and quality way lower than that of the States'. When I decided I wanted to go to med school 2 years ago, I knew I still had 3 more years until I would be going back to the states, but i didn't want to waste 3 years twiddling my thumbs. I couldn't do anything about the prereqs, or research, or volunteering (although I already had some volunteering from my undergrad days), but what I could do something about was the MCAT.

So I've eaten, slept, breathed that the material and the test for the past year; used a lot of online resources, textbooks, etc to teach myself Chem, OChem, Physics, Biology, Microbiology, A&P, BioChem, Soc, and Psych, and I'm confident by January I will score around 520 which is my goal. As far as the research, that I'm not sure about. I don't know if research in another country counts or how adcoms look at that, if it is looked at favorably, there may be some research I can get into here.

Plan A is to apply next June with my 3.8 GPA and ≈517 MCAT.
Plan B is to start taking the science prereqs starting next summer in the event that I don't get accepted, that way I can reapply June 2020.

So what do you guys think? Do I have a shot?

Other details: Non-Trad, California resident, 28 years old, URM (A/A)
(No-prereqs required schools: Western Michigan, University of Virginia, USC, UCincinnati, Hofstra Northwell, Wake Forest, *Medical University of South Carolina [only accepts applicants with strong ties to South Carolina] )
**This list is not conclusive, please check with the schools directly. These are my findings last year when I researched this particular topic, so these policies might have changed or more schools might have been added to the list of non-prereq requiring schools

 

[ciestar]

I would never limit my application in such a way. Take your pre-reqs and get all that other stuff done while doing so. You have the makings of a great app, so don’t hold yourself back.

 

[PettyDoc]

I would never limit my application in such a way. Take your pre-reqs and get all that other stuff done while doing so. You have the makings of a great app, so don’t hold yourself back.

Thank you for your feedback. I think you are right. Honestly i'm not too picky on where I go to med school. I just want to get a solid medical education and become a great physician, and therefore I plan to apply broadly. With that in mind, if there is a small possibility of getting accepted without the pre-reqs done, or a conditional acceptance that requires me to complete the pre-reqs before matriculation which would allow me to start med school in 2020, as oppose to 2021, should I try to go for it? or would it adversely affect me to attempt this and get rejected? For example, I apply to 25 med schools June 2019 without the pre-reqs done, get rejected from all of them, and then reapply in June 2020 to the same 25 med schools, would they still give the second application consideration or is there some kind of lower priority that is given to second-time applicants to a med school?

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

I take the full-length 6 hour practice MCAT offered by Kaplan every 2-3 weeks, from last year my first practice score 478. These last two months i've taken the practice test 5 times I've scoring between 517-525 (520, 517, 525, 524, 525).

Your taking the same 1 practice exam multiple times?? Is that what you are saying? Because if it is then this means absolutely nothing and is not reflective of what you would get on the actual exams. All this would shows is that its taken you 1 year to memorize that 1 practice test.

@gonnif

 

[PettyDoc]

Your taking the same 1 practice exam multiple times?? Is that what you are saying? Because if it is then this means absolutely nothing and is not reflective of what you would get on the actual exams. All this would shows is that its taken you 1 year to memorize that 1 practice test.

@gonnif

Haha, no, of course it's not the same practice test every time, that would be counter-productive. I alternate between different providers, like Princeton Review, Kaplan, NTP, MCAT-Gold Standard, UWorld, etc. I don't think i've ever been asked the same question. The principles, concepts, and application of knowledge are the same obviously, but the questions, passages, etc are different.

 

[ciestar]

Thank you for your feedback. I think you are right. Honestly i'm not too picky on where I go to med school. I just want to get a solid medical education and become a great physician, and therefore I plan to apply broadly. With that in mind, if there is a small possibility of getting accepted without the pre-reqs done, or a conditional acceptance that requires me to complete the pre-reqs before matriculation which would allow me to start med school in 2020, as oppose to 2021, should I try to go for it? or would it adversely affect me to attempt this and get rejected? For example, I apply to 25 med schools June 2019 without the pre-reqs done, get rejected from all of them, and then reapply in June 2020 to the same 25 med schools, would they still give the second application consideration or is there some kind of lower priority that is given to second-time applicants to a med school?

For your question about reapplications...sort of. You dont want to be a reapplicant. And your new application must show improvement over the previous one.

 

[gyngyn]

One should especially avoid becoming a high stats re-applicant.

 

[el_duderino]

The MCAT is not a replacement for taking university-level science courses.

I think there's virtually zero chance of you gaining entry to a US medical school without having taken the required basic science courses (chemistry, organic chemistry, physics, biology, etc).

Do you have a degree at all? If you do, your plan should be a DIY post-bacc to knock out the science requirements, which will likely take 2 years. There may be special programs that let you do it more quickly, but I'm not aware of any.

 

[mwsapphire]

Okay I generally don't make ad hominum attacks but this post is so stupid I'm reeling. Like I literally broke my fast hours ago but now I have a headache.


You take the MCAT AND science classes to get into medical school. The MCAT is a yardstick for your GPA to be measured against, not a measure in and of itself. Ask yourself, would someone with just science classes and no MCAT go to med school? Hell no. So the other way around doesn't work either.

Just like in med school, you have the USMLE and such, but you also. have. classes and grades. Not to mention, those UGrad science classes are ( I just started my MCAT prep so please don't attack me, everyone who has taken it), generally, less dense than the actual content of those courses.

That's why it generally takes someone who did those courses only a few months of prep, and not years.( because it's not like, a final on all those classes, it's just some material from each class).

How can someone who is scoring ~520 on practice MCAT's be this ridiculous?

 

[precisiongraphic]

You "might" find one or two schools that accept people without full prerequisites but it's like buying one lotto ticket to fund your entire retirement - not what you want to bet your future on.

Yet another obstacle is that most schools require two or three science professor letters. You won't be able to get those without taking the classes.

There are Post-baccs that you can do quickly that will get you most/all of the pre-reqs. Look at UVirginia, ULouisville and Washington University in St. Louis for their post bacc programs that are meant for people who don't have many/any of the pre-reqs already done. There are probably lots of other ways, if you look.

Montana State in Bozeman has a summer program that you could do that would get you chem, bio and physics in one summer session. Get a summer sublet (or dorm), move to Bozeman and knock out those in three months. But unfortunately you've probably missed the start of summer semester this year.

Otherwise, enroll in your local school this summer/fall and apply in 2019 not this year. With a 3.8 and a projected 510+ and being AA you're 100% going to get in when you apply, if you have the prerequisites and strong references.

Thank you for your feedback. I think you are right. Honestly i'm not too picky on where I go to med school. I just want to get a solid medical education and become a great physician, and therefore I plan to apply broadly. With that in mind, if there is a small possibility of getting accepted without the pre-reqs done, or a conditional acceptance that requires me to complete the pre-reqs before matriculation which would allow me to start med school in 2020, as oppose to 2021, should I try to go for it? or would it adversely affect me to attempt this and get rejected? For example, I apply to 25 med schools June 2019 without the pre-reqs done, get rejected from all of them, and then reapply in June 2020 to the same 25 med schools, would they still give the second application consideration or is there some kind of lower priority that is given to second-time applicants to a med school?

Yes reapplicants have a big stigma, especially high stat applicants. Adcoms wonder what was wrong with a shoo-in candidate that they couldn't get in the first time.

 

[Dr. Meliodas]

There are plenty of programs with strong linkages into medical schools after you do well in there program (typically >3.7) and meet a minimum MCAT score for those who have not yet completed the premed requirements. Look into career changing post bacs.

 

[PettyDoc]

It was a simple question. I have never applied to med school before, which is what led me to this forum where you guys give advice to people who are applying to med school. Right? When I see there is X Y Z schools that do not require prerequisite classes, but do require MCAT exams, and I pose the question "Hey, these schools state that they are not requiring prerequisites, here are my stats, do you think I have a good chance", what is stupid or idiotic about this question? If i apply for a job at a Chinese embassy and job positing says "No Mandarin language required" what would be stupid or idiotic about asking a person if they think, given my resume, I have good chance? Calm down. @mwsapphire You just broke your fast? Mine is just beginning, remember why we do it.

Also, maybe I didn't give you guys a clear understanding. I said I have a Plan A and Plan B. Plan B (doing all my science prereqs) is what I'm going to do regardless of if Plan A works out or not, which would delay my application for one year, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Plan A was to apply only to these schools that said they don't require prereqs, but at the same time implement Plan B and start taking the science prereqs as I go through the application process and get them all done before matriculation or the next application cycle. If I get secondaries from Plan A then great, if not, I wasted a few hundred dollars applying, but I've wasted more in Vegas, not a big deal.

And believe me, I know the subject material, apparently I've given the impression that I only used mcat study material to teach myself these subjects. That's not the case. Each subject I taught myself from the ground up using university textbooks (you can google any university's science class, look of the professor of that science class, and download their syllabus which includes the textbook's name obviously, and the lesson plan/schedule, then by the textbook or ebook) , Khan academy, multiple MOOCs courses, and then tested my knowledge of the each concepts using various online tests, and eventually by taking the Bio (98th%), Chem(97th%), Physics (95th%), and Psych (98th %) GRE exams.

So I'm not stupid, nor idiotic, nor do I think i'm being ridiculous. I was just asking a question and your opinions, not a flogging. I apologize if for whatever reason my question sparked such fury and rage.

 

[PettyDoc]

You "might" find one or two schools that accept people without full prerequisites but it's like buying one lotto ticket to fund your entire retirement - not what you want to bet your future on.

Yet another obstacle is that most schools require two or three science professor letters. You won't be able to get those without taking the classes.

There are Post-baccs that you can do quickly that will get you most/all of the pre-reqs. Look at UVirginia, ULouisville and Washington University in St. Louis for their post bacc programs that are meant for people who don't have many/any of the pre-reqs already done. There are probably lots of other ways, if you look.

Montana State in Bozeman has a summer program that you could do that would get you chem, bio and physics in one summer session. Get a summer sublet (or dorm), move to Bozeman and knock out those in three months. But unfortunately you've probably missed the start of summer semester this year.

Otherwise, enroll in your local school this summer/fall and apply in 2019 not this year. With a 3.8 and a projected 510+ and being AA you're 100% going to get in when you apply, if you have the prerequisites and strong references.




Yes reapplicants have a big stigma, especially high stat applicants. Adcoms wonder what was wrong with a shoo-in candidate that they couldn't get in the first time.

Thank you so much! Yes, you're right, I did forget about those LORS. I'm still abroad right now and won't be back in the states until the beginning of next summer, so I will look into the Montana State for next summer. Thank you for the advice and encouragement. Does the summer include the equivalency of a full 1-year of that subjects that the med schools require or just one semester? I found a school in my hometown Los Angeles that is similar but it would take me 6 months (summer and fall semester) to get the one year equivalency. Thank you again!

 

[mwsapphire]

It was a simple question. I have never applied to med school before, which is what led me to this forum where you guys give advice to people who are applying to med school. Right? When I see there is X Y Z schools that do not require prerequisite classes, but do require MCAT exams, and I pose the question "Hey, these schools state that they are not requiring prerequisites, here are my stats, do you think I have a good chance", what is stupid or idiotic about this question? If i apply for a job at a Chinese embassy and job positing says "No Mandarin language required" what would be stupid or idiotic about asking a person if they think, given my resume, I have good chance? Calm down. @mwsapphire You just broke your fast? Mine is just beginning, remember why we do it.

Also, maybe I didn't give you guys a clear understanding. I said I have a Plan A and Plan B. Plan B (doing all my science prereqs) is what I'm going to do regardless of if Plan A works out or not, which would delay my application for one year, but you gotta do what you gotta do. Plan A was to apply only to these schools that said they don't require prereqs, but at the same time implement Plan B and start taking the science prereqs as I go through the application process and get them all done before matriculation or the next application cycle. If I get secondaries from Plan A then great, if not, I wasted a few hundred dollars applying, but I've wasted more in Vegas, not a big deal.

And believe me, I know the subject material, apparently I've given the impression that I only used mcat study material to teach myself these subjects. That's not the case. Each subject I taught myself from the ground up using university textbooks (you can google any university's science class, look of the professor of that science class, and download their syllabus which includes the textbook's name obviously, and the lesson plan/schedule, then by the textbook or ebook) , Khan academy, multiple MOOCs courses, and then tested my knowledge of the each concepts using various online tests, and eventually by taking the Bio (98th%), Chem(97th%), Physics (95th%), and Psych (98th %) GRE exams.

So I'm not stupid, nor idiotic, nor do I think i'm being ridiculous. I was just asking a question and your opinions, not a flogging. I apologize if for whatever reason my question sparked such fury and rage.

Sorry for being harsh. The thing is, medical schools that don't require pre reqs still state that they require science classes and a science GPA to apply with. This seemed so obvious to us that it's almost like you didn't do enough research on the subject.

Applying without a sci GPA would make you DOA, and you don't wanna be a reapplicant. It's not the end of the world, but you shouldn't apply with what you know is an app that is missing something. Take the science classes, which you should nail if you've been self studying, and do well in them, then apply.

 

[PettyDoc]

There are plenty of programs with strong linkages into medical schools after you do well in there program (typically >3.7) and meet a minimum MCAT score for those who have not yet completed the premed requirements. Look into career changing post bacs.

I was trying to avoid a post bacc, as they seem to be around 2 years, but this might be an option as well. My bac is B.S. in Healthcare Management with a minor in liberal arts, and I spent the last 5 years teaching political science, business, and health policy in UAE, China, Japan, and Korea. hahaha Thank you for the advice.

 

[PettyDoc]

Sorry for being harsh. The thing is, medical schools that don't require pre reqs still state that they require science classes and a science GPA to apply with. This seemed so obvious to us that it's almost like you didn't do enough research on the subject.

Applying without a sci GPA would make you DOA, and you don't wanna be a reapplicant. It's not the end of the world, but you shouldn't apply with what you know is an app that is missing something. Take the science classes, which you should nail if you've been self studying, and do well in them, then apply.

Yeah you're right, I pulled up the sample AAMCAS application this morning to see what information I need to provide, and I see the sGPA on there, and I think leaving that area empty would look a little lackluster in comparison to other applicants, so I should probably just get the classes done before applying. Thank you.

 

[precisiongraphic]

I think you can get a full year of chem and physics. Bio is also offered but not through this program. But then you'd still have to take Ochem and Biochem afterwards.

MSU says -

• Are you a post-baccalaureate student planning to apply to medical or dental school? MSU's Summer Session offers a series of science and mathematics courses designed to meet the special academic needs of pre-med students.

Summer Session offers the following series of science and mathematics courses designed to meet the special academic needs of students who plan to apply to medical, dental or other health professions schools. The scheduling for this series of courses has been developed to allow students to enroll in Chemistry, Physics or Mathematics courses during each of MSU's 4-week summer sessions, thus enabling students to earn up to 16 science and mathematics credits in only 12 weeks.

Link is here.

Thank you so much! Yes, you're right, I did forget about those LORS. I'm still abroad right now and won't be back in the states until the beginning of next summer, so I will look into the Montana State for next summer. Thank you for the advice and encouragement. Does the summer include the equivalency of a full 1-year of that subjects that the med schools require or just one semester? I found a school in my hometown Los Angeles that is similar but it would take me 6 months (summer and fall semester) to get the one year equivalency. Thank you again!