3.9 gpa 525+ mcat No nonclinical volunteering am I OK?

[deleted993870]

I just want to get the opinion of the SDN forum members as I think that you are the most knowledgeable people about this whole process without getting into too much granularity. My GPA is greater than 3.9 and my mcat is higher than 525 with 132 cars in a science major that not many premeds are. I have submitted my primary application and am applying over this year (gap year). I have 2 years experience volunteering as an EMT (2000+ hours) doing 911 calls. I have a few months (the last few months up until now) employment as a medical scribe in the ED and will do that and the EMT position until going to med school. I did research and published 1 paper 1st author. Also a second paper is under peer review and I am an unimportant author on that one. A bunch of smaller activities that I don't think are important as I want to keep this broad strokes. I think I have good letters of recommendations and good intentions. I am just interested in what you think of me having literally no non-clinical volunteering. I am not opposed to volunteering at all but I was just too busy with everything both to me not having enough free time in the first place and not really going too out of my way to volunteer more when I was already volunteering 12+ hours a week. My main priority is to prepare myself to take care of patients and I don't overly care about prestige so I'm not applying to Harvard but I do honestly kind of also want to go to a school that people will recognize the name of. Thoughts/advice?

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[Saturday’s Child]

Dang. Stating the obvious here, but the lack of non-clinical (NC) volunteering is your only weak link, really. What kind of patients have you interacted with in your clinical volunteering (i.e. normal population, disadvantaged groups, etc.)? The only way I think you could salvage the lack of NC is if your clinical involved extensive interaction with + service toward vulnerable or disadvantaged groups. Med schools want to see that you care about people from all walks of life and have had experiences with those who are vastly different from you.

The experts on here will point to your lack of NC as a reason to question your service ethic and desire to help those who are less fortunate than you. Those are 2 of the primary traits that NC is best for demonstrating.

You can still get into med school, and a good one at that, but I think it’ll hinge on how you spin your experiences in your primary and secondary. You’ll need to somehow show that you have developed qualities like empathy, service ethic, humility, etc. despite not having done any non clinical.

All that being said, you could have some wiggle room if you are URM.

@Goro @Faha

 

[Faha]

Where is your state of residence ? Which schools did you apply to ?

 

[Kardio]

You have an astounding application and are being neurotic. Every activity you described here has been longitudinal and meaningful. Don't worry about "checking the boxes" at this point.

If you are being serious - go through MSAR and look the premedical experiences data for the schools you are interested in. Harvard, for example, had 24% of it's students lacking any "Community Service/Volunteer" activities in 2018.

 

[Goro]

You have an astounding application and are being neurotic. Every activity you described here has been longitudinal and meaningful. Don't worry about "checking the boxes" at this point.

If you are being serious - go through MSAR and look the premedical experiences data for the schools you are interested in. Harvard, for example, had 24% of it's students lacking any "Community Service/Volunteer" activities in 2018.

That's such an outstanding number that I had to double check that in MSAR.

Sure enough, Kardio is correct. However, 89% of the matriculants have "clinical/medical community service volunteer"...which implies that those missing 24% might have done something for the community that was clinical, and met a standard for altruism.

Sometimes I get the gestalt that stellar applicants can have a two out of three quantity when it comes to research/clinicals/non-clinicals and still be OK.

As to the OP, sometimes ot you have to see how the app cycle shake sout. Do let us know in a year how things turn out!

 

[deleted993870]

Dang. Stating the obvious here, but the lack of non-clinical (NC) volunteering is your only weak link, really. What kind of patients have you interacted with in your clinical volunteering (i.e. normal population, disadvantaged groups, etc.)? The only way I think you could salvage the lack of NC is if your clinical involved extensive interaction with + service toward vulnerable or disadvantaged groups. Med schools want to see that you care about people from all walks of life and have had experiences with those who are vastly different from you.

The experts on here will point to your lack of NC as a reason to question your service ethic and desire to help those who are less fortunate than you. Those are 2 of the primary traits that NC is best for demonstrating.

You can still get into med school, and a good one at that, but I think it’ll hinge on how you spin your experiences in your primary and secondary. You’ll need to somehow show that you have developed qualities like empathy, service ethic, humility, etc. despite not having done any non clinical.

All that being said, you could have some wiggle room if you are URM.

@Goro @Faha

The population I’ve been serving is normal and not underserved. The town that i volunteer for is sort of a middle class suburb with an aging population and many nursing homes. Certainly I have not extensively been involved with underserved groups here. Also I am not a URM I am white.

 

[deleted993870]

Where is your state of residence ? Which schools did you apply to ?

I am from Massachusetts. Right now i have only applied to umass and I am trying to figure out a school list. I’m definitely going to add Tufts because that is the only other school in mass that I meet the pre requisites for. The reach school that I really like is Mayo so I think I’m definitely going to apply to both campuses there. I might apply to brown, dartmouth, Albany, quinnipiac because they are also somewhat close by. And maybe Albert Einstein school of medicine as well because i liked that school a lot when I looked at it. But I am still trying to figure out my school list to be honest.

 

[deleted993870]

You have an astounding application and are being neurotic. Every activity you described here has been longitudinal and meaningful. Don't worry about "checking the boxes" at this point.

If you are being serious - go through MSAR and look the premedical experiences data for the schools you are interested in. Harvard, for example, had 24% of it's students lacking any "Community Service/Volunteer" activities in 2018.

Lol that makes me feel better I guess! I guess the data doesn’t lie and some people have been able to make up for no nonclinical volunteering somehow.

 

[Kardio]

That's such an outstanding number that I had to double check that in MSAR.

Sure enough, Kardio is correct. However, 89% of the matriculants have "clinical/medical community service volunteer"...which implies that those missing 24% might have done something for the community that was clinical, and met a standard for altruism.

Sometimes I get the gestalt that stellar applicants can have a two out of three quantity when it comes to research/clinicals/non-clinicals and still be OK.

As to the OP, sometimes ot you have to see how the app cycle shake sout. Do let us know in a year how things turn out!

I peeked around MSAR checking schools like Columbia, Mayo and Stanford. Around 20% of their matriculants lacked nonclinical volunteering.

Considering his MCAT, GPA, 1st author pub, clinical volunteering & work experiences, I'm really getting the impression that OP belongs at the tippy top. Would you withold your "platinum applicant" school list over this?

 

[candbgirl]

The population I’ve been serving is normal and not underserved. The town that i volunteer for is sort of a middle class suburb with an aging population and many nursing homes. Certainly I have not extensively been involved with underserved groups here. Also I am not a URM I am white.

So you can’t even spin your lack of NC volunteering into including it in clinical experiences with the underserved.
Be careful of applying to schools where your stats are so far above their averages that they don’t look at your application seriously.

 

[Faha]

I suggest these schools:
UMass
Tufts
Dartmouth
Brown
Hofstra
Einstein
Mount Sinai
Rochester
NYU
Pittsburgh
Case Western
Ohio State
Cincinnati
U Michigan
U Virginia
Duke
Miami
Vanderbilt
Washington University
Kaiser
Mayo
It is important to apply early so apply in July and submit all your secondaries by August.

 

[Goro]

I peeked around MSAR checking schools like Columbia, Mayo and Stanford. Around 20% of their matriculants lacked nonclinical volunteering.

Considering his MCAT, GPA, 1st author pub, clinical volunteering & work experiences, I'm really getting the impression that OP belongs at the tippy top. Would you withhold your "platinum applicant" school list over this?

Given the OP's response to candbgirl, I'm a bit concerned. U Chicago, Keck, Mayo ((admittedly quirky), UCSF, Northwestern and Emory all like service to others.

Wise @gyngyn, @Moko, what say you?

 

[deleted993870]

Given the OP's response to candbgirl, I'm a bit concerned. U Chicago, Keck, Mayo ((admittedly quirky), UCSF, Northwestern and Emory all like service to others.

Wise @gyngyn, @Moko, what say you?

Thanks for your feedback and honesty goro. When I talk to my parents they think I’m crazy for saying volunteering is my weak point and I was starting to get complacent so it’s good to get a reality check so I won’t get my hopes up and get severely disappointed later.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Thanks for your feedback and honesty goro. When I talk to my parents they think I’m crazy for saying volunteering is my weak point and I was starting to get complacent so it’s good to get a reality check so I won’t get my hopes up and get severely disappointed later.

Why can't you apply to Boston U and Harvard?

Why can't you start nonclinical volunteering now?

 

[deleted993870]

Why can't you apply to Boston U and Harvard?

Why can't you start nonclinical volunteering now?

I don’t meet the prerequisites for those schools. Once I’ve gotten my applications in I’ll try to get involved in something but I think it will be too late for it to really affect the application cycle, plus I don’t want to just do something to help me get into Med school. Because I do care about the health disparities in our country, and like everyone else should also, want to do what I can to address them I will try to get some experience with populations outside of my comfort zone during the next year

 

[MyOdyssey]

I don’t meet the prerequisites for those schools. Once I’ve gotten my applications in I’ll try to get involved in something but I think it will be too late for it to really affect the application cycle, plus I don’t want to just do something to help me get into Med school. Because I do care about the health disparities in our country, and like everyone else should also, want to do what I can to address them I will try to get some experience with populations outside of my comfort zone during the next year

What additional prerequisites do they have beyond what other medical schools require? I ask because I'll be applying in the next year.

 

[Kardio]

I don’t want to just do something to help me get into Med school.

Fair and respectable.

You could find something that interests you and begin volunteering this year without listing it on your AMCAS. There's a few benefits to this:
1. If a school doesn't care, then they won't bring it up - end of story
2. If you are asked in an interview, you have an answer
3. If you don't get any love from schools midway through the cycle, you have an update
4. If you don't get any love from schools this entire cycle, you'll have a stronger application next time

Your numbers are beautiful, but you need to strategize and sell yourself.
e.g., "Why did you only recently start volunteering" → "I would have liked to start earlier, but I was too focused with xyz in college and I had to wait until my scheduled opened up in my gap year to start"

 

[deleted993870]

What additional prerequisites do they have beyond what other medical schools require? I ask because I'll be applying in the next year.

Specifically it is the 1 year of English w/o AP credit accepted that got me for both of these schools. Personally I think it's silly that they wouldn't consider an application of someone who did 2 years of AP English in high school and scored a 132 on cars because they only took 1 semester of English in college. But that's the way it works from what I can tell and I don't really mind not applying to every single school lol.

 

[MyOdyssey]

Specifically it is the 1 year of English w/o AP credit accepted that got me for both of these schools. Personally I think it's silly that they wouldn't consider an application of someone who did 2 years of AP English in high school and scored a 132 on cars because they only took 1 semester of English in college. But that's the way it works from what I can tell and I don't really mind not applying to every single school lol.

For the 2019-2020 cycle, Harvard's website says:

Writing

One year AP credits cannot be used Writing intensive courses are preferred Humanities or social science courses involving substantial expository writing will satisfy this requirement

Prerequisite Courses

General Comments Regarding Course Requirements

meded.hms.harvard.edu

You don't have to satisfy this requirement using classes from the English Department. From Harvard's website:

"All applicants must complete one year of coursework that features expository writing. Generally, any course in the social sciences or humanities that involves substantial essay writing will count toward this requirement.

Creative, complex, and compelling discoveries in medicine involve grappling with good questions borne from close-reading analyses and careful observations. Courses used to fulfill this requirement, whether in science or other disciplines, should focus on analytical and writing skills. In addition, at a minimum, HMS matriculants should have one year of critical writing/thinking preparation, preferably in a course devoted specifically to the development of expository writing skills.

Students will need to be able to apply the following skills in their study of medicine and scientific inquiry:

• Writing logically and with clarity and style about important questions across disciplines
• Articulating persuasively, both on paper and in oral presentations, focused, sophisticated, and credible thesis arguments
• Appreciating the methodologies applied in certain disciplines for understanding and communicating results effectively
• Approaching evidence with probity and intellectual independence
• Using source material appropriately with scrupulous and rigorous attribution

Advanced placement credits cannot be used to satisfy this requirement."

 

[MyOdyssey]

Boston University's website also allows non English Department classes to fulfill the writing requirement:

Prerequisite Courses
One year of the following:

• English Composition or Literature (or other writing intensive course(s) )
• Humanities
• Biological Sciences with Lab (intro or advanced)
• Physics (intro or advanced)

Requirements | Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine

www.bumc.bu.edu

Can I use _________ course for your English requirement?
We can accept any course at any level under your school’s English department for our English requirement. We can also accept any English language writing intensive course as a substitute, so long as you explain the substitution in your BUSM secondary application. Acceptable courses include, but are not limited to: History, Sociology, Psychology, and Philosophy. Please note that any course used to fulfill the English requirement cannot also be used to fulfill the Humanities prerequisite.

FAQs for Current Applicants | Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine

www.bumc.bu.edu

 

[deleted993870]

Boston University's website also allows non English Department classes to fulfill the writing requirement:

Prerequisite Courses
One year of the following:

• English Composition or Literature (or other writing intensive course(s) )
• Humanities
• Biological Sciences with Lab (intro or advanced)
• Physics (intro or advanced)

Requirements | Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine

www.bumc.bu.edu

Can I use _________ course for your English requirement?
We can accept any course at any level under your school’s English department for our English requirement. We can also accept any English language writing intensive course as a substitute, so long as you explain the substitution in your BUSM secondary application. Acceptable courses include, but are not limited to: History, Sociology, Psychology, and Philosophy. Please note that any course used to fulfill the English requirement cannot also be used to fulfill the Humanities prerequisite.

FAQs for Current Applicants | Chobanian & Avedisian School of Medicine

www.bumc.bu.edu

Thank you for the information but I only took one course which involved significant writing lol, which was the English class that I took. The closest second course would be a philosophy class where I wrote two 1 page long reflections so I do not think I meet the requirement for either of these schools haha.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

That's such an outstanding number that I had to double check that in MSAR.

Sure enough, Kardio is correct. However, 89% of the matriculants have "clinical/medical community service volunteer"...which implies that those missing 24% might have done something for the community that was clinical, and met a standard for altruism.

Sometimes I get the gestalt that stellar applicants can have a two out of three quantity when it comes to research/clinicals/non-clinicals and still be OK.

As to the OP, sometimes ot you have to see how the app cycle shake sout. Do let us know in a year how things turn out!

Yes. 2,000 hours of volunteer EMT work counts as "clinical/medical community service volunteering", no?

 

[Walter Raleigh]

Thank you for the information but I only took one course which involved significant writing lol, which was the English class that I took. The closest second course would be a philosophy class where I wrote two 1 page long reflections so I do not think I meet the requirement for either of these schools haha.

What about history, sociology, or psychology courses? Be honest; it's worth a shot. Those 2,000 hours as a volunteer EMT as well as your stellar stats might cause your nonclinical volunteering weakness to be forgiven. If you were to take a gap year and get even a couple hundred hours of nonclinical volunteering, you would go from golden to platinum and be a strong applicant at any school in the country.

 

[deleted993870]

What about history, sociology, or psychology courses? Be honest; it's worth a shot. Those 2,000 hours as a volunteer EMT as well as your stellar stats might cause your nonclinical volunteering weakness to be forgiven. If you were to take a gap year and get even a couple hundred hours of nonclinical volunteering, you would go from golden to platinum and be a strong applicant at any school in the country.

I took a few psychology courses but I really would be lying if I tryed to sell them as writing because honestly was no writing. I majored in physics (lol) which is why I had so little writing in my courses. But I do read a book every couple months which is why I think I did good on cars on the mcat.

 

[deleted966008]

N=1 but I had high stats and no non-clinical last cycle. Didn’t have too much trouble, although I was asked about it in a couple interviews. That being said, I did do quite a bit during the cycle and simply notified the appropriate schools as an update. That may help your chances if you have time

 

[TempuraOreos]

I didn't really have any non-clinical volunteering either and slightly lower stats but I think my other ECs compensated for it.

 

[MyOdyssey]

I didn't really have any non-clinical volunteering either and slightly lower stats but I think my other ECs compensated for it.

Were you a MD/PhD applicant?

 

[TempuraOreos]

Were you a MD/PhD applicant?

Lol nah. Considered it back when I was in undergrad; but, there are not that many humanities MD/PhD programs.

 

[Walter Raleigh]

@LizzyM: If OP has not yet been verified, and he withdraws, is he still considered a reapplicant in Round 2?

 

[LizzyM]

@LizzyM: If OP has not yet been verified, and he withdraws, is he still considered a reapplicant in Round 2?

I'm not sure @gonnif

 

[993444]

@LizzyM: If OP has not yet been verified, and he withdraws, is he still considered a reapplicant in Round 2?

I'm not sure @gonnif

OP is NOT considered a re-applicant if the withdrawal happens before verification.

This is the first question on the AMCAS FAQ:

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