3 Year MD Programs?

[Undecided22]

I'm wondering if any other schools will slowly transition to a 3 year MD program? Or if there even exist any other than NYU's and Texas Tech's(which is only for FP)

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[Thego2guy]

NYU is the first here. A relative works there and was part of the development for the new program. It has its drawbacks so its not for everyone. Also a very small portion of the incoming class this fall is going to be part of the three year program. I suspect it will be a few years until other schools take notice, track the progress of the NYU early birds, and decide to construct their own curriculums around that schedule.

 

[deleted407021]

Mercer has a 3 year accelerated program for entrance into a FP residency. They achieve this by cutting out some of the clinical stuff you would normally do that is not pertinent to family medicine.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Columbia has a program as well. However, it is only open to PhD's at this time. It has no residency restrictions.

 

[Josh7]

Columbia has a program as well. However, it is only open to PhD's at this time. It has no residency restrictions.

Does that include the MD/PhD students or just matriculants who already had a PhD?

 

[Sophocles]

Does that include the MD/PhD students or just matriculants who already had a PhD?

This particular pathway is for people who have PhD in biomedical sciences; although, the new MD/PhD has a 1.5 preclinical/two rotations and when they return after their PhD its 13-14 months in length-so I guess you could also say that their MD/PhD is also ~3 years for the MD portion(?).

 

[Mt Kilimanjaro]

Mercer has a 3 year accelerated program for entrance into a FP residency. They achieve this by cutting out some of the clinical stuff you would normally do that is not pertinent to family medicine.

Do you have a link to their curriculum or know what they cut? Since FM is such a broad field, it seems like it would be hard to cut an entire year without losing something potentially valuable.

 

[Law2Doc]

This particular pathway is for people who have PhD in biomedical sciences; although, the new MD/PhD has a 1.5 preclinical/two rotations and when they return after their PhD its 13-14 months in length-so I guess you could also say that their MD/PhD is also ~3 years for the MD portion(?).

There used to be quite a few PhD to MD programs, but the LCME got rid of them, deciding they were I'll advised.

The trend is currently to phase out various accelerated programs -- every now and again one pops up, and another two close.

Truth of the matter is every med school is burying you in information as is, and it's just not realistic to accelerate too much without eliminating things you might need. You could pare down the post-match fourth year, but I'm not sure why you'd want to -- that was a nice relaxing time to take electives, finish up requirements and make moving arrangements.

This isn't a race, and heading into intern year the light at the end of the tunnel really is an oncoming train.

 

[Law2Doc]

...They achieve this by cutting out some of the clinical stuff you would normally do that is not pertinent to family medicine.

it's hard to imagine there are many rotations that aren't pertinent to someone planning to be a FM generalist. There's actually a movement afoot to lengthen FM residency by a year precisely because it takes more, not less, exposure to things to make it as a generalist. Family med docs can practice OB, they usually at least rotate for a month or two through inpatient general surgery while in intern year (I guess so they can recognize surgical issues and explain things to patients) and they clearly would need to know IM, peds, psych to some extent. not sure what is left that's "not pertinent". It's the specialists, not the generalists for whom things could theoretically be cut out. Eg the optho doc might not need OB in his day to day life.

 

[mmmcdowe]

Does that include the MD/PhD students or just matriculants who already had a PhD?

MD/PhD students have always had a 3 year MD potential. The idea was to basically give people who did the PhD "before pre-clinicals" the same courtesy.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

I'm wondering if any other schools will slowly transition to a 3 year MD program? Or if there even exist any other than NYU's and Texas Tech's(which is only for FP)

It's hard to know, but as more schools transition into some version of a 1.5+ year pre-clinical program, that is, starting rotations in Jan-March of the second year, this becomes more feasible with very little decreasing of elective rotations. I'm not convinced that taking away 2 or 3 electives that senior students do isn't so terrible if it could make a real difference in student debt loads. One issue is the increasing use of "capstone" and similar 4th year classes that often deal with some practical aspects of beginning residency. These will need to be re-aligned.

 

[deleted407021]

Do you have a link to their curriculum or know what they cut? Since FM is such a broad field, it seems like it would be hard to cut an entire year without losing something potentially valuable.

I am interested in this program. It seems like they have it well planned out and fully developed. You must be a GA resident to gain acceptance at Mercer. This is the best I could find on a quick look at their website. Here you go:

http://medicine.mercer.edu/family-savannah/accelerated-track/

 

[brazenredhead]

Does EVMS still have a 3-year program?

I know in the past (the early '70s) they did-- a family friend did a 3-year track (he's an anesthesiologist).

 

[Undecided22]

There used to be quite a few PhD to MD programs, but the LCME got rid of them, deciding they were I'll advised.

The trend is currently to phase out various accelerated programs -- every now and again one pops up, and another two close.

Truth of the matter is every med school is burying you in information as is, and it's just not realistic to accelerate too much without eliminating things you might need. You could pare down the post-match fourth year, but I'm not sure why you'd want to -- that was a nice relaxing time to take electives, finish up requirements and make moving arrangements.

This isn't a race, and heading into intern year the light at the end of the tunnel really is an oncoming train.

I'm mostly just curious because its 1 year less, which means less costs. I understand it would probably be much much more difficult to condense the education, but depending on the school, saving ~60k on tuition(and not having it factor into interest) would be a fair trade off imo.

 

[circulus vitios]

There used to be quite a few PhD to MD programs, but the LCME got rid of them, deciding they were I'll advised.

The trend is currently to phase out various accelerated programs -- every now and again one pops up, and another two close.

Truth of the matter is every med school is burying you in information as is, and it's just not realistic to accelerate too much without eliminating things you might need. You could pare down the post-match fourth year, but I'm not sure why you'd want to -- that was a nice relaxing time to take electives, finish up requirements and make moving arrangements.

This isn't a race, and heading into intern year the light at the end of the tunnel really is an oncoming train.

The idea isn't to race to the finish, the idea is to minimize debt.

Of course I'm sure this is negated by schools who jack up the tuition to offset the 'lost' tuition.

 

[nysegop]

What about Duke?

http://medschool.duke.edu/education/md-program

 

[StraightShooter]

What about Duke?

http://medschool.duke.edu/education/md-program

I believe they just condense pre-clinical and electives and toss in a research year. So its still 4 years.

 

[nysegop]

I believe they just condense pre-clinical and electives and toss in a research year. So its still 4 years.

Oh I see.

 

[LaurenMD]

Mercer has a 3 year accelerated program for entrance into a FP residency. They achieve this by cutting out some of the clinical stuff you would normally do that is not pertinent to family medicine.

Isn't a ton of that information on the board exams?

 

[ar2388]

my understanding of hte NYU program is you need to stay in the top 25% of the class academically or you get shunted back into the 4 year track and if you finish in 3 years, you are guaranteed residency at NYU

 

[Law2Doc]

The idea isn't to race to the finish, the idea is to minimize debt.

Of course I'm sure this is negated by schools who jack up the tuition to offset the 'lost' tuition.

I get that, but at the same time that interns knowledge base is being complained about because they aren't getting as much teaching due to changes in duty hour rules, does it really make sense to lop off some of their med school foundation too? Saving money is great, but it doesn't trump what we are trying to accomplish here. And yes, there's probably half a year of "luxury electives" that could be pared down before cuts would add to the intensity of med school, but that won't really translate to the savings you want, probably is time that could be better spent on these additional electives or research, and really just might justify longer proportionately residencies in those field that are trying to figure out a way to better train in the era of duty hour restrictions. I could totally see a shortening of med school be accompanied by a commensurate lengthening of intern year, but do you really want that?
Just my two cents.

 

[nysegop]

my understanding of hte NYU program is you need to stay in the top 25% of the class academically or you get shunted back into the 4 year track and if you finish in 3 years, you are guaranteed residency at NYU

Of your specialty choice?

 

[StraightShooter]

Of your specialty choice?

Yes. But you must choose a specialty/ know your specialty so that they can cut of less relevant parts.

Id see that as a downside since you would likely change your mind during 3rd and 4th years(so I've heard)

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Lets see:

1 month research = reviewing charts
1 month random elective: e.g. derm
1 month subspecialty rotation

None of these have anything to do at all with work hour changes and lengthening residency. Now, it's undoubtedly true that some folks would rather have those rotations and maybe one other (plus more vacation time!!) and add $50,000-$80,000 of debt. Some others might see it differently. Med schools need to adapt to the debt burden by creatively adapting their curriculum. A shortened preclinical time, as is already done in multiple med schools, some for many years, and lopping off a few nearly useless elective months so that students can graduate earlier is something that would work for some, but not all students/schools and should be considered more widely than it is now.